there is allot of different teeth out there I'd like to know what everyones experience with different brands/types what they are using and for what application. Around here we stick to wirtgen mostly W6's for the most part but we get into w7's and 8's sometimes. Most of them are using in recycling operations cutting 4-6 inches deep. Attached are some pictures of different sandvik and kenametal teeth that are being used in rx900/pr800's for shallow milling. Has anyone had experience with those funny looking roadrazor teeth?
Those Sandviks are what Midstate use, they seem to wear good but they body wash quit a bit. Arizona Pavement Profiling used the Sandvik Tri-spec teeth which were extremely good. (red boxes double carbide) The Tri-spec teeth DID have a rotation problem in the older style drum in asphalt in New Mexico. Trispec teeth had NO rotation problems on Interstate 94 in a Wirtgen drum at 130fpm. In the south eastern states mostly all milling contractors use Kenametal or Wirtgen teeth. I never saw many with Sanvik in the deep south. Texop use Sandvik/Kenametal. If I can I'll post of picture of these funky lookin things that came in our rented Wirtgen reclaimer....Hard to get good light in the housing and they didn't send any replacements of the same style.
W-7's here. W-1's in the 2' skid loader mill. Curious what others use as well.
E-6's in our w2000 and 1200. They wear good and I get about 20 hours out of a set. What's the diff between them and the w-7 and 8's? Body diameter?
What the heck are the teeth in the second pic good for?
http://www.kennametal.com/images/repositories/PDFs/B-10-02354_road_milling_stabilization_tools.pdf looks like they are the RoadRazor ECO teeth.
Oh and I brain farted...we just switched to the kennametal rz-16 because the w-6's kept burning up
Over the years the biggest difference I've noticed with teeth is the material your cutting can change how the tooth wears/acts. The Miller Group were hardcore Kenametal people, They had been in alot of the old Kenametal advertisements in trade magazines and so on....in 2000 they started using Wirtgen teeth, almost exclusively. They always kept a pallet of Kenametal in the shop just in case... They sent a PR1050 down to Daytona Beach after not being in Florida for a long time. 3 days into the job the foreman was calling the shop complaining the Wirtgen teeth were burning up before noon, typically running all day with them in Georgia/Alabama. They sent down a few boxes of Kenametal teeth and the rest of the job went fine. That MAY have been a bad batch of Wirtgen teeth because I ran Wirtgen Teeth on I-95 just outside Daytona Beach and they cut just fine in 8+ inches of temporary lane asphalt. Teeth wear depends on what your into at the time and where. Not who makes better teeth. If its a better teeth issue, Sandvik win easily. (opinion)
I find that true,just my experiences with different teeth. Currently using kennametal RZ16 I believe. They seem to be doing the job,15k-18k before a change. Although on some recent city streets we were only getting around 7ksq yd before a change....superpave mix from what the inspector told me,all i know is it was burning up teeth at 2.5" running about 50fpm tops.
We get about 8000 + square meters on a set of w6's teeth however some roads usually up north we are lucky to get 4000 sq meters generally 4-6 inches (150mm) deep. W8's are similar to w7's but a little bit bigger and somewhat longer life. Switching from a weld on drum to a keystone we get atleast 30% better tooth wear aswell.
Thats another good point, angle of attack affect wear, how much water....
I agree that material you are cutting has the biggest effect on wear.( Captain obvious statement right there ) Some of the worst asphalt I've come up against was made with river gravel. Have burned up a set of W-7's in half a day, and had to change the whole drum. We can do it in 20 min's if there are trucks waiting. Guys look like a nascar pit crew.:guns
We have even sprayed water on the road ahead of us to help. I believe it was a wirtgen rep who told us that however only a minor difference was noticed.
CAT teeth The box even said they were made in Germany? I found that kinda odd. Ain't seen how they run yet...Need new phone fer pictures.
Using Sandvik Tri-spec teeth in the W2100 in Scottsdale, they wore perfectly. no body washing or broken tips. Unlike the Kenametal drum under the PR1000 in New Mexico. Last Year On Interstate 94 at the Montana/North Dakota state line Tri-spec teeth wore quite well, broken tips were an issue but moving at an average of 120fpm well...
tooth wear There are a lot of things that effect tooth wear...carbide composition (cobalt content), material abrasiveness, material average particle size, drum design (perhaps the biggest influence), water distribution, load in the drum (depth and speed). Unknown to many users, most carbide used in milling teeth comes from a waste process while making a different carbide product. If it didn't these teeth would cost significatly more. The problem becomes the content of additives in the carbide..additives like cobalt..which affects both the strength and wear resisatance of the carbide materials...too little and the tips become too hard and break easily, too much and the tips wear too fast because the material is softer. Due to the demands in the different primary products which generates the waste carbide, this content may vary over time...greatly affecting the characteristics of the milling teeth. As most have you have seen, teeth typically wear out in the body before the carbide is gone...known as "body wash". Variations in the amount of wear are in part material dependant (silica content, cutting depth, and particle size), but in great part due to drum design as well. The ultimate design parameter that controls tooth wear is how efficiently a given cutter drum gets the millings up on the primary conveyor belt. The drum which takes the fewest rotations to get the cuttings rap onto the belt will invariably have the best tooth wear. You can guage your drum evacuation efficiency by observing the surge pile remaining at the rear of the drum when lifting out of the cut...a small pile is good. Drum flight configuration, and drum kicker plate angles and locations are key..as well as the elevating angle of the discharge conveyor. Water jhas a great effect on the wear as well. Not only does water cool the teeth, but it adds lubricant to the cutting action, and tooth rotation in the holders as well. Sufficient water is very important, but equally so is the uniform distribution of water across the drum. Water spray should always be to the front of the tooth, never to the rear of the holder. Spraying water under pressure to the rear of the holder on conventional holders, will drive the milling fines into the rear of the holder bore, which fines will then cause the teeth to bind and wear out very prematurely (flatted carbides most common sign) Several mentions have been made in other posts on this forum about the importance of cleaning asphalt build up on the sides of the drum. The only time this occurs (with the possible exception of milling sand mixes which by their nature mill "hot") is either when the outside cutters are not correctly positioned and the milling drum is generating drag heat at it's edges, or no water spray is reaching the outer cutters causing overheating. A correctly designed/repaired outside edge pattern in combination with adequate water spray will no longer generate build up at the drum edges.
Forgot to mention improper angles of attack as a major cause of premature tooth wear. This is more true on welded drums than on "quick change" holder systems. Milling teeth in asphalt are typically most efficient at around 45 degrees, and skewed 7 - 8 degrees to the center of the drum. However due to the presence of concrete under asphalt in many roads, a steeper angle of attack is more effective. At the 45 degree angle the edge of the carbide tends to strike the underlying concrete either simultaneously with the nose of even before the nose engages. This will cause the sauder which holds the carbide to it's metal body to break and the tooth to lose it's carbide point. Hence an angle of around 42 - 43 degrees becomes the ideal. This angle is measured from the trued angle of the tooth axis (including skew) to a radian line from the tip of the tooth to the center axis of the drum.
Those CAT teeth are effin garbage.
Well....CAT teeth in a PR1000 did ok in Scottsdale, AZ. They out lasted Sandvik Tri-spec.
Saber teeth The SABER T7W by EVERPADS holds up pretty good in deep cuts for both asphalt and concrete.
John deer teeth? I imagine they are just rebranded or something?
Did anybody try that novapick system (diamond tips)
I've seen them used, they are indeed worth it if you don't mind the cost of the drum and higher tip prices. In Florida I saw Mill-it use those teeth on the I-10 just outside Jacksonville, they cut over 75,000 sq yds and changed two tips. In the city like that down there the asphalt is generally pretty hard on the interstates.
Milling_drum Did you ever run into Sam Breckbill from VR Wesson or Earl Wright from Minning Tool or any of several other companies. Those two guys could tell stories about Teeth and Milling companies that would top even what you can ever think of. Earl used to send out pocket watches when he delievered teeth. They would dropship teeth to the job site. Then take us out for a steak. We need a few more salesmen like they were. Anomalie
I don't know those names you mentioned. However Wirtgen used to have an older tooth salesman who died a few years ago, he would show up in the most strange locations coming out of nowhere. All of a sudden he would appear with a cold drink and start asking questions about the teeth we were using and how they were wearing...told a few stories, sometimes he would stay at the same hotel and take us out too eat and all that. Donny from Wirtgen (a tech) was all out. If he showed up too your job the party was on that night for sure. Dean from Sandvik is pretty cool too. Shoot me off an email and I'll put together a list of people you can contact. Once the season ends I'd be interested in checking out this system and maybe getting something going too for the following spring. [email protected]
Kennametal Looks like Kennametal have it on Wirtgen now, I knew this was coming.
Are those kennametal's HT11 "aftermarket" holders?
Those holders are going into a W2200, an entire set of them. If I'm around KP long enough I'll let you know how they held up. They are from Kennametal, I wouldn't mark off anything Kennametal puts out as "aftermarket" because I'll bet pennies to nickels these hold up better then the ones Wirtgen put out for they're own drum.
The outfit I am with just installed a novapick drum into a w2000, the cut looks real good. Its a rental and they provide a certain number of teeth per month. After some heavy milling will have a better idea of the cost vs. factor.
Looks like a cross between a Sollomi and Kennametal 303. How many spare heads did they start you off with? I was told by a few people that its a lease/purchase program and if you like they sell you a drum at a pretty decent price in the end. The Novapick sales people are getting after the market like crazy, contractors aren't biting down on it until they get some kind of guarantee they will have staying life....should be an interesting season with that.
The Novapick teeth won't hold up at all in concrete. It's a good idea if you have a machine totally dedicated to nothing but wide open asphalt milling. But taking asphalt off concrete and obstacles like manholes, water meters, and buried rail lines are the death of this system.
We are loving the novapick setup...252K+ sq yds and changed 4 teeth in that time. With the price of teeth skyrocketing over the $5 mark,the owner is looking at adding novapick to the other mills we have. Yes milling drum it is a lease to buy originally the rumor was a rental,they have not put the scale on the conveyor yet,first month is complimentary I assume. According to the person in the know at the company I am with.. the allotment of teeth is 80 per 100k ton. Buried rail lines are the death of any drum tex....I dont understand why trimming around obstacles would be a problem for any setup and I have already trimmed off some bridge decks and the end result was a happy contractor.
I wonder what will happen when the drum itself gets tired and needs a retool....it isn't like they will last forever. I wonder how much that will cost when it comes to it... Nobody seems to say much about them at that point...hmm???
I think we set some sort of record today with an unbelievable amount of teeth changed. :bash:bash:bash 25 pails or about 1300 teeth in 1 km 12.5 ft wide 5 inches deep. teeth changes every 100-150 meters including 9 holders w6 w7 road razors and some others all failed :Banghead I don't think we have ever changed more then 500-600 in a day ever!
Hay bean where are you working so I never go there (northern ontario) we were changing about 500 a day on the 401 in Gananoque on our half lane machine.
Way up north of edmonton (6 hours) in alberta, kennametal rp-20's seem to be the best we can go 400 meters or so on them compared to 120 with the others. We did the parkway in gananoque a few times and had to change teeth twice a day it was some hard **** aswell.
Last week at a company in Utah (CMR = Construction Material Recycling) I saw that Sandvik are putting out a tooth simular too the Kennametal 20's, it looked exactly the same except the color was a little different and they came out of a Sandvik box... I'd be hip too trying those bad boys on for a go too see how they hold up.
CMR has become a serious thorn in my side bidding wise lately. You working for them now?
That new Sandvik tooth doesn't seat fully on the washer. I think they did this to get a puller under the tooth. Good idea. Too much shank sticking out above the holder means the shank breaks in hard material. Bad idea.
That's something I'd be interested too see Tex, I wonder if that is unique to certain holders or not.... CMR came after me pretty hard because I am friends with some people that work for them, when push came to shove they couldn't take me on....I'm done with Kodiak, running a mill that requires turning the steering wheel 30 times to get the tracks to move 2 inches....is simply unreasonable.
the best teeth by far over all the others i have used have been the cats with the green lids..Im talkin days untill ya gotta chang them..used them in tucson overlay, up on the 260 north of payson and on I-10 fast lane which was hard cuttin 5" I ALWAYS put extra water down, just cuz I would rather watch the water truck driver hurry his ass up then me havin to change my teeth all the time.
Novatek will soon have a tool for the Wirtgen that will replace the HT11 holder and the tooth. ( Diamond tooth of course)
Wow, that will make alot of people happy. But I'm a little confused, are you meaning the entire holder and tooth? you mean a complete new holder that slides into the existing HT11 hole on a wirtgen drum?
Anyone else use Kenametal bits? Seems they wear quickly but not that exp.
The rate of wear really depends on several factors. The aggregate being cut is first. All the tooth companies make several different styles and sizes of teeth. They don't do that just because they want to. They have discovered over the years that different teeth work in different conditions. Also the size and horsepower of your machine will help determine the right tooth to use. Secondly, if the teeth aren't getting enough water, they will wear prematurely. Check your spray bar to make sure it is working properly. After that, I would check the condition of the holders and the lower conveyor. Worn out holders will kill rotation and if the lower belt is too worn out, it won't pick up the material and allow it to stay in the box longer than it should. That helps wear out everything. All of this is, of course, just my opinion, but I hope it helps. You probably already know everything I just said, but here it is in case you didn't.
Has anyone treated their bits cryogenic freezing they are claiming double life. (It’s a miracle) halaluya lol
I've seen several milling contractors do their own independent testing of cryogenically treated teeth. Most say they can not see any difference in the wear characteristics between treated and untreated teeth.