I know this has been touched on in some other threads, but I was just wondering what you prefer. I personally prefer the finger tip control.
I like Diff steer the most. Its easy, and its smooth. Finger steer is a close second in my book, But they seem to get jerky after a while. If you dont have a mechanic that knows how to adjust that, it makes for a long day. The one i really like was one an International Td15. You could speed up one track or the other by pushing the lever steer all the way forward. By leaving one in the slow operating range you could run a long smooth turn when you were doing light pushes. It was nice for working on slopes too
I prefer pilot joystick.
finger tip for me, i spend most my time pushing scoops now and i just dont like the diff steer its not fast enough for me and gets bogged down in heavy goin
The boggying down on turns now with the new D6T may not be as much as an issue. I think they have more gear selection and have added extra pumps to help with the turning issue i know when trying to run the hydraulics and turning. Maybe some of the guys running the new D6T's can add more info too this,as to performence with truning. Maybe you can't get the T's with diff steer now???????:beatsme:usa
I've never had the pleasure of operating a cat with the fingertip steering yet, so I don't know. I'm split on the diff steer vs. standard clutches and brakes. For maneuvering around in tight places where I want a lot of control, I prefer clutches and brakes. The diff steer units I've run (which hasn't been many) tend to feel out of control at times particularly when turning around on steep ground. Maybe it's just me. However, for sidehill work, or where steering with a bladefull is necessary, I prefer diff steer.
To me it's basically weather or not you need full power turns or not. Both systems are nice when calibrated correctly, but you are doing stop track turns with a finger tip machine. The D6T has a differant torque converter case just to add a extra piston pump for steering only, a long time complaint of D6R operators.
Diff steer all the way I vote for diff steer. On the small machines I love the Hystat, great for manuverablility in tight spots. For my operation typiclay D6 and bigger would be more of a production machine, and when your production pushing you push in a straight line (if you do steer you do it with the blade) and you are not manuvering in tight spots very often. A big advantage with it is that you can turn with while pushing, anyone who turns with a bladefull on a clutch/brake machine has never had to repair steering clutches & brakes. I am not saying (C&B machines) can't power turn, but you drasticly shorten the life of the cultchs & brakes if you do it regulary. C&B machines are built to push strait and if I catch any of my guys turning with them (with a bladefull) they deffinatly hear about it. Steering clutches & brakes were a great system when thats all we had, but in my oppinion that is system is obsolete. Clutches and brakes are wear items, and even though with a good operator they may last a long time, I believe that that system still costs more to operate than diff steer (although I have never had to repair a diff steer system, never had one fail). Maybe it is diffrent with the big (10s & 11s) machines, but again they are typiclly used for production strait line pushing. :my2c
Different Steering Options Lever steer is old style direct linkage to clutch and brake on older machines...finger tip control is still clutch and brake it is just done through an electronic controller as opposed to actually pulling on the clutch manually....diff steer is actually hydrostatic steering (similar to a full hydrostatic drive machine) with powershift transmission....the hydrostatic pump on a diff steer only drives the turing function while the transmission drive the direction and torque....for power turns diff steer or a fully hydrostatic systme is the best option....for empty turns (no material on blade) it doesn't make much difference....the larger machines still all use clutch and brake (above a D8)
Never run diff steer. :beatsme I'll take finger tips over levers.
above D9 i believe, or was i the only one unfortunate enough to score a 9 with diff steer:Banghead
I prefer the Diff steer in a pushing machine because you always have power to the tracks and you don't dig yourself into a hole like you can with a tractor with narrow tracks and alot of weight plus it is easier to handle a roller in my opinion backing up. Now I have pulled scrapers with a 9L levers, a 10r,10t with fingertips and an 11r with finger tips and have pushed with an 11r with fingertips pulling the scrapers doesbn't amke any difference to me like someone said it is still clutch and brake the fingertips are more ergonomic. As far as being jerky if you feather a fingertip machine on any of our jobs the mechanics lose thier minds they say you are supposed to pull them all the way on or off so I am not sure about the jerkiness but if you feather them yea they are alot smoother.
As being an owner /operator i'll stay with the diff steer.My early model D6H has going on 16k hours and still turns and operates like the day i bought it new. With out any repairs in that amount of time i vote stick with it ,since i'm also the one paying the bills which up to this point has been zero!!!!!!!! Definitely win ! win! situation for me.:usa
diff steer for sure !! but the finger tip isnt bad either.
Steering systems. Hi, Folks. Does anybody mind if I put in my 2 cents here? He, he, he. Yer all too far away to stop me anyway. For sheer controllability amongst the bigger tractors, I have yet to see anything to match the separate clutch and brake systems, a la D7E and F, D8H, D9G. And they were pretty reliable too. So they were hard to steer with a loaded blade (and smart operators didn't try) but I thought that was why God gave us the technology to fit dozers with tilt rams. I have used diff steer and finger tip steering. Diff steer is great if you don't have to do any sharp turns in less than optimum conditions. I did find it better in the D8N than in the D6H but not hugely better. Finger tip steering is also nice - - - when it is properly adjusted. Unfortunately, some of the fitters where I ran finger tip steering machines did not seem to have the necessary skills and knowledge. Or is it just that I'm not yet totally over-awed with modern 'teck-no-logic' stuff? On the other hand, I currently spend a fair bit of time on Cat 943's and 953's, hydrostatic drive rear-engined track loaders. I work these machines in some rather tight spaces at times and that hydrostatic drive does pretty much whatever I ask of it. It is also pretty reliable and adjustment-free. And they spin turn far better than any diff steer I have so far run. Is that 2 cents worth yet?
If you take everyones .02 I think you end up with the answer.
I think that was probably worth about $2. I agree with the old D7E's as being easy to run but I never could figure out how to make that thing turn with the tilt ram, since it was a cable control.LOL I cut my teeth on a '63 model d4. It was the old ag combo where you could take just the blade off and turn the dozer arms around so you could hook up to a plow. Those steering clutches had no assist or anything, that machine sure did wear me out when I was plowing. The first machine that I ran when I was 8 was a '60 model D4. It had a pony start on it and after plowing for about half a day I would accidently kill it and then I would take a nap or chase rabbits till Dad would come start it for me. After about doing this 2 times he figured out what I was doing and the next time that I accidently killed it he came by a accidently BUSTED my butt. Sorry to hijack my own thread but talking about those old standard clutch and brake steering machines brought back some childhood memories.
Operator Controls Personally, having run all the various types of operator controls. I dislike the finger tip controls the most. The old clutch and brake, ala lever from the console and foot brake was the best. You could shift on the fly while turning, pushing scrapers out of the cut for example. Try that with the side lever "L" series. Unorthodox . The side lever sure created elbow and shoulder problems for lot of operators. The diff steer and joystick types I like. The medicine tablet size buttons sure are going to create , muskoskelton problems in the future. Those buttons are everywhere now. It's the trend toward less physical work . This new trend of less physical work; by creating more computer screens,video,audio, prompts. Joy stick,wrist turning,finger twitching, button pushing, trigger pulling, ball, wheel, rotating, is all, hand and finger movements. Just what good is this, when secretaries typing on keyboards, real light work, experience carpal tunnel syndrone. A crippling physical ailment ! Joy sticks already create rotor cuff shoulder ailments. I personally, just wonder what the operators health condition will be after 20-30 years of operating, these new controls. The work load is not evenly distributed to all parts of the human body. All this electronic controlling equipment surely is not going to survive into the Antique Phase of the old mechanical equipment of our forefathers. Electronics have a fast obsolescence , the mechanical stuff survives time. Just my thoughts.
levers and clutches i havent really had to put the old old lever and brake set up dozer to the test but in my expierence i dont think that they are very productive. but i know that the new type of steering systems are extremly productive i also think that cat puts out the new steering in order to make a better machine. as for the finger tip steer i think that they are a little touchy but i think with a little time a guy can get used to them i like the diff steer the best wiyh the lever no turn brake in a close second.:beatsme
Work load and wooses. Hi, Northart. I'm with you. I've had similar thoughts for years. Operators on the older machines got a lot more exercise while sitting on their butts than the new generation of operators ever get on their U Byewt new fangled electro-magnetic, comp-yooter-eyes-ated, spark-controlled fitter's nightmares. Nice to operate, BUT..................?
Operator Control ? Hello Deas Plant, Yes, the issue of Operator Control has not yet, manifested itself upon the younger generation. Who remember's 25# controls ? Real Lever Pullers ! Real biceps developer ! Then 12# controls were celebrated. Then 6# controls lasted forever. Finally 3# controls were a dream world. Much like snaping off a round in a rifle. Yet physical exercise is still needed. My contention is, that you need a total body exercise , or close to it, to avoid stressed out points. Stressed out points, are the body parts, prone to failure, much like any mechanical engine, or component. Repetitive Motion Syndrome is a major industry health problem. Some of the readers are unaware of the issue ! Productivity ?? Yes, you can wear the machine out quicker by your faster responses ! Just like this computer, stills needs time to respond ! Another topic ! I just think electronics (cost) is screwing the ultimate user . Look at all the Modern Marvels built without electronics ! Hoover Dam, Statute Of Liberty, Panama Canal, Suez Canal, Eiffel Tower, Pyramids in Egypt. Just to name some. Look at the cost of achieving emissions controls ? Let me throw in also the Miltary aircraft evolution, simple to complex. What for ??? Nowadys talk of Unmanned aircraft. Regression ??? LOL Another argument , Later, Northart
Ya ever noticed the finger/knuckle muscles on many of the newer generation operators? These guys are ripped! They would totally dominate thumb wrestling :notworthy
:falldownlaugh:falldownlaugh
I don't think the old clutch/brake machines are unproductive. That's what I learned on, and I don't think they are that bad to operate.
diff. steering for me!:IMO
since i am not an operator i am unfamilar with some of these... what are finger tips? theyre not joystick hystat. i am guess you guys are mostly talking bout big machines but i am unsure of what that is.
Im with VjjR, I been on a d3 hystat with the joystick and I understand the old school clutch and foot brakes, but I dont understand what a finger tip or diff steer is. Mabe someone could clear this up for me. Thanks, im a youngster looking to enter the equipment bussiness.
Check out the third picture in this thread. Instead of a joystick, you have 2 paddles you use to operate each track, respectively.
so u pull back on the side you want to slow down or stop? and those two levers control the tracks by clutches and brakes but electricaly?
I don't know how they work, I just know what they do and what they look like.
pretty much, all they are is 2 little tabs that stick up, ones for left one right, the way they are positioned at the end of the armrest you can comfortably run the left with your middle finger and the right with your pointing finger, and the forward reverse lever is positioned so without moving your arm off the rest you can reach ovr with your thumb to change directions. if you pull back on either the left or right clutch just a tiny bit it puts that track into neutral, if you want to freewheel at hi speed off a hill you could hold them both in neutral, ive never tried that. if you pull either one all the way back it locks that track up. i hope this was understandable.
D6Rxr Hi guys I just spent over a week driving a D6Rxr with fingertip steering,I still reckon Cat have made a blunder with this system,I much prefer my FiatAllis FD175. Also the amount of fuel that thing burned was unreal,the two machines easiest to drive are still a Komatsu D65EX or a Liebherr 734. Neil
Wow... I thought just having to use the frictions on my D6D was a treat. I remember running a d8H (46A) that you had to push the brake and pull the friction. It would be nice to be able to power up a single track to make sweeping turns, but I've lived without this long!