Guys what is the story on this bucket in the pic I have attached. I see them quite often for sewer crews in Canada. On the sewer crews I have worked for here in the states I have not come across this. Also have never seen one in person. Technical name of this style bucket? Are they just home made things? It looks to me like they don't use stone boxes and this allows them to dump right into the excavator bucket. Why would they not use a stone box? Isn't a stone box much quicker and more efficient than waiting for the loader? Just trying to understand the reasoning and efficiencies of these buckets.
My first guess would be I'd like to see the box you'd use with that hoe?
shimmy1, we run stone boxes with our 375's, and those a little bigger than the Deere 650's.
So what's your opinion on that bucket?
Well I have seen them on a few different companies machines. So I am thinking there must be something to them. I just don't have a broad enough experience(always worked in there same general region) to know if I am missing something. I think the shape of it makes good sense for what they are doing. I just wonder if it works as good as a stone box system does. Do you see this setup in your area of the country? I don't want to pass judgement on it too quickly as the companies I have seen in pictures look to know what they are doing.
I thought they were called "sand scoops" but a google search for that phrase turned up nothing, so I guess that's not it! Andrew
No, I haven't seen them. I don't get into commercial water and sewer so I don't have an educated opinion either. But, thinking about it, there are some possibilities. First, as long as the hoe doesn't have to wait for the loader, it would be faster, compared to scooping out of the box. Second, the loader can drop some rock in the ditch to save the hoe time. Third, maybe its just a new fad that these big guys are trying out.
I like it. It looks homemade, like a lot of my goodies. It is long enough the loader can reach the center of even a deep trench without risking the front wheels falling in, and skinny so it can dump into the hoe bucket without spilling everywhere like a standard bucket does. It is on a quick coupler, so you are not stuck with it all day if you don't need it. I bet that it was made for very little $$, while a Felco bedding box is $$$$$$$$$. The bedding box limits what the hoe can do, and is a pain to install and remove, while this loader bucket can be put on and off with the flip of a switch and does not limit what the loader can do.
Hey Jerry. I was more curious about that linkage setup. That apparently is Deere's version of a tool carrier. They call it Powerllel.
That linkage looks a little like a Volvo with the Torque-Parallel set up they have. It keeps its curl force through a wider range of motion than a Z bar arrangement. The Z bar is great for loading, but pretty much sucks at almost everything else. I have not ran a Deere like that, but I have the Volvo and was very impressed with what it would do. It is just too bad the Volvo dealers I have seen are horrible, and their parts 2 to 3 times the cost of Cat parts, and I used to think Cat parts were expensive.
Thanks guys. I have searched Google as well with no results. So yeah homemade makes sense. I think the fact it can reach the middle of the trench is very good. You are right if the loader can keep up it would be quicker than a stone box, stone or sand would be moved one less time. I looked up the spec on that linkage that 644 has in the pic. As for all the specs they are less than the Z bar. Like couple thousand pounds less lift and breakout force. Not sure the advantage if the specs are speaking the truth.
The advantage comes into play when you're using the loader as a tool carrier. Only reason to have it.
shimmy1, so you think it would be a pretty poor loader for backfilling then?
I couldn't give an accurate opinion without running it. It sounds like it's more powerful than any standard toolcarrier model. I think it would be similar to the differences encountered when running your hoe with or without a pin grabber. If your changing attachments multiple times per hour like I sometimes do, the slight disadvantage due to reduced breakout is a non-factor because that is what you need, similar to a guy having a toolcarrier. You don't have a toolcarrier unless you need it.
I couldn't get the Deere brochure to u upload. That's a shocker.
I have not read the specs on this loader, but what I know of the Volvo with a very similar linkage is that it is a compromise between a true toolcarrier linkage and a Z bar. A Z bar linkage has the highest breakout with the boom down, bucket near level. This gives the greatest advantage when digging in a hard pile. The true Z bar advantage though, is that the speed of the dump and return increases as the boom raises, as well as the dump angle of the bucket increasing as the lift arms reach the top of the cycle. These things maximize productivity in a basic loader cycle. If you are loading trucks, it is great. If you are backfilling, the faster dump and return cycle is good. The toolcarrier keeps the bucket or attachment level through the entire boom cycle. Great for tools, painfully slow for moving dirt. The other thing is that while breakout force is less than a Z bar at the ground, it does not loose as much as the boom lifts. If you have ever tried lifting a heavy load while keeping it level with a Z bar loader, you can appreciate this. The compromise by Volvo, and now Deere, is a linkage that is in between the two. It has a little less breakout at ground level, which is where the spec book measures it, but it maintains that through most of the lift cycle, like the toolcarrier does, but without loosing so much cycle time. I remember the Volvo literature pointing out that the max breakout force could be maintained at full height. Not sure about the Deere, but it looks like it will be similar. It will do this while still being fast enough to use for basic loader work, though it will give up some cycle time to a true Z bar machine. Back to the thread topic of the long bucket, one of these hybrid linkage designs will handle it at height than a Z bar machine would.
I think it is a good idea, another tool to get the rock exactly where it needs to be, when not needed it simply is removed. I use a rock box and there are times when that type of bucket would be a lifesaver. I use a 953C track loader with a quick attach and I will build one for it.
That's exactly what I was thinking, but without actually doing it, didn't really want to say it without experience. It just like anything else, if you do it all day, everyday, when you see something you know will work better, you know it as soon as you see it.