Id like to say thanks in advance for any advice given. So, as the title states, im looking at old backhoes for some work to do on my property. Ive considered the rent vs purchase thing and im trying to just buy something old, cheap, and then sell when im done and get my money back out of it. Ive got an external french drain around the house, my leech field, some stumps, and a driveway/parking area to do. Since ive been looking, ive come across some case 580ck, ford 4500s, and a few 3/400 deeres. The most common seem to be the old 4500/case machines in southwestern pa. The deeres are either out of my budget or beat to death. Out of the 3, which should i be looking at the hardest? The fords seem like a pretty good bang for the buck machine and all 3 seem to have pretty good parts availability. Any reason to pick a case over a ford? Or a deere over a case? Ive had good luck with my fords and deere, but theyre not in this realm. Ive got a crane license and cdl so ive done some work with equipment, but this is a new experience for me.
So many questions. Are you a mechanic? Owning an old backhoe is a very iffy proposition. Lots of hidden problems can lurk in the darkness. That fact coupled with the problem of dishonest sellers equals "caveat emptor" big time. Do you have a way to move a backhoe? I've noticed that a lot of folks don't realize how heavy these machines can get. Do you have any heavy equipment dealers near you? Getting parts can be real tough on older machines. My closest dealer is JD at 30 miles away. I own a JD. What is your budget? A 70s model 4500 backhoe is nowhere near a 2000ish full size backhoe in capability. For me, I would rent new instead of buying a 40 year old backhoe.
For that work, I'd suggest renting a mini excavator one week, then do the hand work, then rent a skid steer to clean up. If you ENJOY being a mechanic, or want to learn, then I would say, no, there is no reason to go with a Case or beat up JD over a Ford. I would look at a bunch of them, operate a few, and lean heavily toward the one that has been worked the hardest in the last year. If you get one that's been sitting, you'll replace half the hoses, one at a time losing gallons of oil each time, or you'll replace all the hoses at once. Half the cylinders will start leaking the same way. You will NOT get your money back out of it if you have to do much work at all.
I am far from an expert but I bought my first machine in 2019. I have yet to actually use it for anything. I bought it because I have a 15 acre parcel that I will be building a house, gun range, barn and just clearing some of the heavy woods. I bought a 30 year old Cat 426. She ran, moved and more or less everything worked. I knew what I was buying needed some work. If you are not mechanically inclined or not willing to do work on a machine than do not buy an old one. You will end up replacing all the hoses, repacking the cylinders and some other maintenance no matter what. You will either do it up front as a project or one thing at a time as it breaks. My machine was less than half the price of all the comparable machines I looked at. I had it moved to my brother's auto shop. I am working on it here and there when I get time. I have replaced all the hoses, repacked all but two cylinders. I had two cylinders rebuilt. I had two cracks in the boom repaired. I rebuilt the battery box and replaced the corroded ground cable. I am currently working on the cab. Need to replace the floor panels and fix some rust on the cabin. I am also rebuilding the seat. After that I need to verify all the electrical items work and replace some of the exterior lights. Then I need to pull the rear axle and disassemble to replace a leaking axle seal. Lastly I will replace the tires and glass. I am doing all this so I end up with a machine that I can use and have for a number of years. If my plan works I will have little if any issues to fix in the field. EDIT: Make sure your parts supplier is not far and is a good place to deal with. I got lucky when I bought my cat. Cat makes almost everything for their older stuff and my local dealer is awesome.
I can turn a wrench or two. Ive always done all of my own mechanical work on vehicles to an extent. Swapped transmissions, rearends, brakes, hoses, and we do alot of our own wrenching on stuff at work. I understand about buyer beware and so far ive looked at a few machines. I love how "ran when parked" turns into "was parked there 25 years ago" or "runs good" equates to "its own smoke screen from blowby" when youre looking in person. As far as dealers go, ive got deere construction, case ih, cat, agco, pretty much all the majors within a 45 minute drive. The only parts i can see needing available locally are consumables like packing or seals for rams. Anything else i can have shipped in a few days. As far as capability, i could realistically do everything i need done with a shovel, and more free time than i have, but my ditch digging days are gone, at almost 40 stuff tends to stay sore a little longer than when i was 20. Anythings better than a shovel. Renting is absolutely out. My work schedule makes things like that really hard to do. I need something thats there all the time so i can do stuff as i get time.
I purchased a 1974 JD310 9 years ago with the same thought as you. It's been so handy, I haven't even considered selling it. Beyond the normal stuff like oil changes and filters, battery, starter rebuild and alternator replacement, I had to rebuild the hydraulic pump and replace a couple of hoses, but parts were pretty easy to find and I got a lot of help here on the forum with the pump rebuild. All in all I've ended up with a decent machine that I use on a regular basis.
Almost 40 and complaining you're a little sore, wait a few years and you'll be really sore and wish you under 40 again. What is your budget for an older used machine? JD's will most likely have closed center hydraulics that can be more complicated/expensive to repair. Best to pay an experienced mechanic to look at any potential machines.
Trying to spend around 5 so i dont have to finance. Im not complaining about it, but why do things the hard way if you dont have to? That and alot of my miles are hard oilfield miles.
Kind of what I was thinking. Buying a 5K backhoe could be the hard way of doing it. The lower the price the more thorough of inspection needs to be done if you want something that works. Take an experienced mechanic and also an experienced operator to run the machine for an hour or so. Might cost you a few hundred bucks but to not might cost you thousands and be an expensive lesson. Also budget for repairs because any machine will need them.
I get what your saying. Ive read several threads on here (the reason im here, all the good info so far) about how to inspect a piece of equipment. Its definately come in handy as a deere 410 had the hydraulics crap out after i got them warm. I had a ford 4500 that spewed coolant when the throttle was run up under load, and alot of other great info. Ive also learned on here simple things like a bad starter can be used to mask other problems that can potentially be very expensive. I think even an old 9n with a loader backhoe would even work if it had been properly cared for for my needs but i dont even want to get into something that old. I was just curious why i might pick a case over an old ford and so on. Ive heard good about both. Its not like ill be measuring productivityin much of a way so quicker cycle times is irrelevant for my application or things like that. Thanks again.
Welcome to HEF, Jshopes81 ! If you need help no matter what you buy, you will get a million dollars worth of expert help almost 24/7 here on HEF. That sir is no BS either !
Post what you're going to look at on here first. Best to steer clear of older JCB's and maybe newer ones too. Parts and service are very suspect reading threads about them.
Ya, ive looked at 2 jcbs and they were both pretty rough. I passed on those pretty quick. Right now ive got a dealer with a ford 4500 nearby and a private seller with a case 580b. The ford has a fuel leak which im calling to inquire about now (location of the leak) and the 580 has a leak at one of the swing cylinders. I expect some leaks on machines this old being sold and i figure i can fix for under 100$ since the chrome on both of the rods look good. Theyre both the same price. The ford has 4200hrs according to the dealer. https://www.bakerandsons.com/F - LC Equip/Used FLC Equip/Backhoes/W17187-4.html https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/205115111203741/?ref=facebook_story_share Those are links to two current prospects.
$100 might get you a seal kit. If you've never done cylinder seals might be best to have it done at a hyd. shop. NEVER trust an hour meter. I'm no expert but it looks like 580B's ended in 1976. What else is embellished? What year is the Ford? The grill is missing and a side of the hood is in the bucket. Why is it off? I can't see but some older Fords had a chain set up for the swing that can be problematic so may want to check that out.
No machine over 20 years old will be functionally problem free, what I found thru ownership of old machines is an hours use is a hours maintenance after. Hoses fail, small parts break, hell even large parts break and generally without fore warning. $5k will cost you ten within a few years of service in just day to day repairs, tires, blown cylinders or failed power train. A Stanadyne injector pump rebuild is from $600-900 and YOU do the R&R. It will be Buyer Beware if are not accustomed nor have the tooling to attack one of these head on.
I didnt even think about the hood being in the bucket or the grill. It does have the chain swing. My grill for my deere 455 has been laying in my wifes flower bed since summer time. I tossed it over to clean the battery terminals and wanted to get back to mowing and thats where its sitting. The fuel leak is apparently at the injector pump but isnt even a drip, keeps the area moist looking. Any idea how difficult it would be to put seals on that injector pump? I do cylinders every day, several times a day, but theyre gas over hydraulic and see about 20,000psi. Repacking and sealing a ram isnt at all intimidating.
I don't know Dave. 40 hit me like a truck! Now that I have better sense and have quit all my bad habits I'm in better shape at 69.
I would rather have that Case. I do not think I would want a machine without at least a ROPS. You live where it gets cold, are you sure you want a machine without a little protection from the elements and even a heater? Seller could be lying about the age or he has no idea. A few questions should answer that. If it works as he claims then have him demonstrate it. Make him dig a hole. Make sure that when he starts the machine it is from a cold start. If you ahow up and it is already warm there is a good chance seller is hiding something.
Case is almost but not quite a orphan as is the Ford If coming in cold to old machines at least buy one can still buy parts for
I like the old fords but that one looks like you have to climb up to the rear seat for digging. That gets old in a hurry. We had a very old JD like that. We had a 550 with chain drive. Never had a problem but if they break lookout.
Make a suggestion please. I was under the impression ford stuff was still available through new holland. I skipped on an mf50 due to parts availability, or lack of.
My 2 cents: Wait till you find a good deal. 580Cs are all over the place in the mid west. It doesn't take much to make them work for you. I looked for 5 months. My top end was 10k. I looked a some that had been worked on my someone that only had a hammer and vise grip for tools. One had a been driven in to a creek and the owner thought it was ok to have water over the cab floor. (Under floor is two breathers.) I even looked at one that looked great, everything worked. The problem was the frame broken on one side and welded on the other. What I bought was a 580C that someone bought, put tires on it and then let it sit, health issues. He was very up front and told me that letting it sit with bio diesel in it is really bad. The tank was full of it and when he tried to start it, the goo was in the pump... He slaved in a boat fuel tank with a filter and the return to the tank. It did start right up. I paid $6500. Bills so far: $450 To get it hauled home $100 to clean the fuel tank $200 in oil and hyd (so far) $150 in seals (I have some extras) $30 for brake linings $150 in wire, lights, fuses... $35 for a new steering hose that blew. About 20 hours working on it. Still things I want to fix: Seat high adjust Paint a couple things What I know I have to fix soon: hoses hoses hoses What I have is a 580C that spent 20hours digging garbage out of a ditch 10 feet below grade. Another 15 hours digging out a bamboo plant (what a pain in the ass, don't believe me, google it). It has new tires that are 8 years old but are unused, they still had the year tag on the tread. It starts right up, previous owner rebuilt the head and injector pump due to the goo. On cold days, <30 deg a shot of ether and it kicks over. The bottom line, go look at a lot of them. DON"T BE AFRAID TO WALK AWAY! Things to look at: Cylinders that have deep scratches or bent Cracked frames Blue smoke If it is a shuttle that it moves (dam things are heave to remove, rebuild, and install) Check the rear for water. Drive it and look for light brown oil. Cutting edges that are worn out. Understand your buying someone project (they always need work). You need to know what the parts are going to cost and if you can do the job yourself. This includes the tools too. Keep an eye on the auctions, Craig's list, Market place... From post to sold is less then a day for what you are looking for. Good Luck
I just found one on craigslist, a 580b thats not too far. The guy says he inherited it with property, no idea what the deal is, wants it gone. I figure if anything i could make money on scrapping it if its more than something minor. Pictures dont mean much, but it doesnt look terrible.
Hey Jshopes81, I am in similar situation as you, renting not really and option depending on work that needs to be done, your day job, and everything else. For me as well, cheaper to buy and old machine that to rent a new one at $1500+ per week. Bottom line, you can pay 5K,10K OR 30K they will all leak and will eventually cost you repairs at some point.Try and get a read on the owner for BS, ask as many questions as you can, test it as much as possible before you buy. Rule of thumb that I always go by for and old tractor, if the engine doesn't knock and the hydraulics work, and last but not least, if the wheels spin when you push dirt, then you should be ok. Its kind of a leap of faith anyways, so just make the best of it. I am a hardcore John Deere guy, but if you want to get a 5K machine, in my opinion JI Case had the edge on Backhoes over any manufacturer from the 60's to the early 80's. Then CAT and John Deere caught up and the rest is history. (Old **'s not bad either in those days with the Perkins.) i just purchased a 1968 Case 580ck and as Tinkerer said, you will find a wealth of info on this site. Only a few weeks as a member and already had a bunch of questions answered. Good luck man.
I appreciate all the comments. Im going to check out this old case in the morning. We'll see if anything comes of it. I figure even if i spend a few hours drive time and mess with it for the day i can still scrap it at probably at least 10,000 lbs. That should work out to a good chunk of change worst case scenario.
Scrap it? If you can get it home part it out if it is not worth fixing.
Fir parts available Durability Dependability and ease of use Stick with newer Case or Deere or Cat equipment Yes CNH can still get some parts for the old Fords but dwindling with time JCB has a bad name for availability for repair parts that are strictly proprietary. A 580E or K series will last longer and cost a little more but parts are on the shelf not special order or something that has to be reengineered to function
Ya the free 580b got away. The seller of the 580b on marketplace is sounding fishy. Saying the power steering is weak because of a swing cylinder leak. That ones out. Ive got two ford 4500s to look at, including the one at bakers again. The hood in the bucket had been mentioned, but the battery looks to be brand new, so if that hood pops off easily, i can see that. The other 4500 works every day. Ill be looking at both tomorow. Seems llike the old fords are the most common here in southwest pa of the older machines. There are probably a dozen of the old n series within 100 miles on marketplace. A kubota b9200 came up on craigslist, but i dont think thats going to do well with my stumps. The smallest is about 2 feet across and the big douglas fur has two trunks totalling about 6 feet across.
You could cause a lot of damage to any T/L/B tackling a 6 foot tree stump. I doubt if one could do one that big. You cannot remove a stump until the entire root ball is loose. Unless the tree was cut about 10 years ago.
Saw a local wresting a 40" Oak Stump with a Link Belt 2650 mid 80s vintage that worked that machine near to death. Ended up building a brush burn pile in the hole around the stump to destroy enough to remove.
I had a pine stump i dug out with a mini excavator. I think it was a bobcat 231, 12000lb machine. The tree had 83 rings and was about 3ft across. It got the stump out of the hole and up onto the backfill blade suprisingly. I drug it 100 yards leaned over onto the stump with just the ends of the tracks touching. I dont even think i could drag that out with my pickup on a chain, let alone an 1800lb tlb. Ive really given thought to a new deere 1 or 3 series, itll work for alot of what i want to do, except the driveway and some of the bigger stumps.
In 2003 I bought a 1986 Ford 555b 4X4 for $12K. Looked rough but had a replacement engine. Immediately installed new tires and a battery. Over the next 17 years I have spent around $5K in repairs (some pins & bushings, hoses, cylinder repacking, new battery every 7 years,...) and the thing refuses to die. Most of the work I have done myself, but it went out once for a $3K service. Starts in cold weather without ether, strong hydraulics, and when I have run it out of fuel (gauge doesn't work), I just fill the tank and it self primes. It could die tomorrow and it would not hurt. The thing has done more work than I have into it, by far.
I wasted a couple hours of rental time on this sweetgum using a E32 Bobcat. Had to leave it as you see it here until I bought my 575E. It got it out with the 575E but it would not pick it up. I had to roll it out of the hole and push it out to the burn pile. So far I have managed to keep my New Holland going but there are parts I would like to have that are listed as no longer available. They use to have a good parts web site but they ruined it. I have had a heck of a time getting correct seal kits for cylinders. They changed the pistons and gland nuts along the way and rather than keep a way to get the original seals they want you to buy the new glands and pistons. Turns a $75 job into a $500 job if you follow their suggestions. So far I have worked around that but it has cost me a lot in time and finagling. Not sure I would buy another New Holland if I was looking but I also don't know if any other brand is better for old machine parts.
I have been impressed by what the old triple nickel can pick up. Quite a strong machine. So strong that the rear dipper was repaired by the original owner. Each side has 1/2 inch thick plate welded in place; hasn't broken again. A lot of it has to do with timing. When I was looking in 2003, the prices for 4X4 machines was a little high. Like land. This thing looked rough, but for $12K I took a gamble, and it has paid off. Dozers are the same way; sometimes junk is commanding a $10K price, sometimes you can get a decent machine for even less. My next machine will probably be a JD 310 or 410. Looking to buy before I retire in the next couple of years.
I bought a CAT 426 that needs some work. I knew it when I bought it. Paid about 40% of going rate for similar machines. I have bought a lot of parts and checked on many parts. Other than body parts everything is still available from CAT. I have not waited more than 4-5 days for any part. My machine is 1988-1989 vintage. I commented to the CAT parts guys how shocked I am about parts availability. They commented that CAT can supply most parts for machines back to the 30s. I work for a major car manufacturer and we supply virtually nothing for 30 year old vehicles. I would buy CAT again just for the convenience of buying parts. No having to make something work.
DO NOT BUY A FARM TRACTOR EQUIPPED WITH A BACKHOE! Old TLB machines are troublesome. I've owned four thus far. Each has been a real education. I wish I had it to do over again & bought one late model unit. I seem to own them long enough to spend some money, work the bugs out. You'll spend a great deal on a $5000. TLB. My son bought a Case 580B. Except for a tire that keeps going flat, & some cylinders needed repacking, it is functional. He paid $2000. I am not a fan of foot swing / three lever control. I have had two Case 580K, parts availability has been fine. I can't say that about John Deere. Some John Deere parts have been NLA. The six section backhoe valve on a 410, no parts were offered. A whole valve was $4500. A hydraulic repair company sold me an aftermarket valve for $1400. It was narrower than stock. I had to build the hardware to mount on the tractor & the joystick assembly.
Had a pleasant surprise when i bought a 1966 Case 310 dozer two years ago. Anytime I get a vehicle I always change all the fluids and filters to get a baseline. Went to a farm dealership over the line in New Hampshire and they had everything in stock I needed. For a 50 + year old machine!
filters are a little different, because in those days there were 3 filters available,and you designed your machine with those three filters in mind. so those three filters cover 90% of the engines made between 1940 and 1980. I've never had trouble finding filters for anything if you're willing to cross numbers and keep looking. Just the price, or having to buy more than one sometimes. What gets you in trouble is a third party component that JD doesn't support anymore like Willies, or an oddball machine bigger component that is not available new, and not any others around in scrapyards here, and it's not going to be sent used from overseas.
I just looked at the 580b. Put it into a gravel pile after warming up and it digs in abit then just sits there in 1st gear. The ps pump was low so topping that off got steering back. The other issue is that thehoe wont perform much more than one function at a time. Im going to look at the ford, i dont think the case is the one.
You'll have to get something much newer, or a Deere to be able to easily use two backhoe functions at a time, that's just the way they operate with open center hydraulics. you can hold the first one partially open and feather to get them both to operate, and still need to do that a little on a Deere. The stalling in first gear is bad, it should slow the engine down and blow black smoke, or spin the tires. Just sitting there is slipping the reverser clutch most likely, not good.
Ya thats what i figured. I wasnt anywhere near wide open on the controls, the only way it would do two functions was extremely slow by any standard and they didnt seem strong with one function. They were fast, but not strong. They stalled with only half a bite in semi loose soil. When i went to scoop with the loader it was an dug up pile of dirt and it just stopped dead. No smoke, no tires spinning, just stopped. The way things are looking im just going to hold off a few months and spend more, but well see how this ford does.
May as well figure you will be nearer to $10-12K. 10-15 years Newer, better tractors.
Take your time and keep looking. A decent one will come up for sale eventually. They will all have minor faults, unless you buy a newer machine. When you find it don't dilly dally thinking about it. Good ones don't stay on the market very long.
If everybody bought, leased or rented new equipment and the old stuff went to scrap , there would be no HEF. Just sayin... But many of the people who are using this equipment to make money are using newer stuff. The mfg s make attractive leases and for the owner operator to have new and with new there are few machine issues. There is some optimal point between use/repair-time/cost , sometimes referred to as “what can I afford”. We all somehow eventually figure it out.
Make sure you can get shuttle parts and transmaision parts. I sold my allis 816 . for $5500 just for that reason. I went through the shuttle and spent $1000 on simple parts that cost me $300 for my case 580. parts supply is the bigh thing
very true.
sometimes the naighbors will let a guy borrow thiers for a simple case of beer. It pays to be in good standings with your naighbors. we barter back and forth around here
My neighbor bought a beat-up 580E almost 20 years ago. I do his maintenance and repairs, and he lets me use it. Brakes, a torque converter, shuttle rebuild and a few hoses so far. It will need rear tires very soon. It starts in the cold with an hour of block heater, or a teeny squirt of nose candy. It has been a great tool for us both.
You better know your neighbors really well. Very bad things can happen when you let others borrow your equipment, very bad things! If it's a hammer or a jack is one thing, a machine is totally different. Always reminds me of the next sentence in the following statement. It started making a funny noise so I drove it back to the garage to figure out what was wrong... Answers: A. I never noticed the trail of oil on the ground B. It was a kind of grinding screeching sound C. I drove slow so I wouldn't damage it worse D. I never noticed the gauge at zero E. All of the above F. I can't afford to fix it right now, can you wait a couple month's and I'll see what I can do
As you are saying, buy much newer, much more expensive if you hope to have trouble free. My hoes have all been 20 to 30 years old when I bought them. 3 of four were low hour machines. I still spend a significant sum making them functional. Inevitably, I repack several cylinders, replace several hoses. They don't last forever. Each tractor has had a mystery affliction. #1 had a bad backhoe valve. The experts I found concluded it was NOT worn out, it was defective new. I should have been leery of a 20 year old tractor with no evidence of wear!
Yeah, I was wondering what neighbor I'd trust with the loan of an old machine. They think it is old, how much harm could they do. Before I owned a backhoe, I did have a neighbor borrow an old farm tractor with trip bucket loader. Minutes later I could hear a crashing sound. I investigated. He was backing up, getting a good running start, crashing into 3' diameter boulders in his lawn just peeking up a few inches. I retrieved the tractor before he broke it in half.
most people areound here are farmers. they are not strangers to old equipment. You have to be somewhat smart about it
I have a close friend, he loves to operate machinery. We figured out years back borrowing from me meant ending a friendship. He sold his Vermont property last year, but until then he rented machines for recreation. He rented a mini excavator for a week. First night he called me, he had broken the "shiny thing in front". It proved to be the bucket cylinder. It had a 30 degree bend in the rod & it indeed was broken. "How to Hell did you break that?" I asked. "I was smashing some ledge." I noticed despite rain & dark, the dipper was broken also. Next morning he called to say he had chained it up so he wouldn't do more damage. I didn't understand "more damage". He was using it as a bulldozer. An hour later, he wanted to know where to get hydraulic hoses made. He was pushing a pile of rocks, a boulder tumbled over the top of the blade, ripping off a hose.
I had one of these, a 320. Had a hell of a lot of fun with it. Think I paid $1800 for it. Joe H
Well, i ended up looking at another 580b that had what looked like spaghetti for wiring. It started right up, cold, the first time, then wouldnt start again. After that i checked out the 4500, made it there after the dealer closed unfortunately and even though it had the key in it sitting out front, it wouldnt even kick over. Last, i stopped to look at a 580c in wheeling and it looked to have hydraulic oil in the crank case so thats as far as that went. I think im going to take a break for a few weeks. Seems like in the fall when i started thinking about this there was alot more available.
I sure wouldn't try to start a machine on a dealers lot when they aren't aware, especially when I wasn't even familiar with it. Have you heard the saying. Nice to look at Nice to hold But if you break it Consider it sold
I have been asked to loan out my own T/L/B. I just politely tell them "sorry I don't have any insurance on it"
4 years ago I bought a 580c to rescue it from rotting in a cornfield..Paid $2000, right place, right time, correct amount of beer...since then I've invested about $5000 in parts, but that includes rebuilding injection pump, shuttle, transaxle, all three backhoe, loader, and stabilizer control valves, all the cylinders, oem hydraulic pump, injectors, radiator, water pump, all the hoses, brakes, including master and slave cylinders, kingpins, steering cylinders, rewiring entire machine and the real expense, all the hydraulic lines..Damn near new-old machine... If you've got some mechanical aptitude and don't need a perfect machine right out of the gate, don't be afraid of a previously loved or more often abused older Case..parts are readily available and if you get "THE BOOKS" easy to repair...
Tinkerer, it's amazing how many new friends I have now that need hoe work...sure I'll just drive it 5 miles to your house to dig for you..I'm gonna have to borrow that insurance thing...Brilliant...
I got a tip that a church had a non-starting backhoe (1985 2wd Case 580se) sitting on the extensive property that they wanted to be rid of. Apparently it had reached the end of its commercial use life (5000 hrs) and was donated (tax write-off) to the church by a member who ran a construction company. After falling into disuse and neglect, it had been offered to others but due to its issues was passed over and mostly sat for a 6+ years. We got it started and had it transported 120 miles to home. So far, I’ve got $2500 into it and 60 hours. There is probably another $1000 in parts and 60 hours to get it leak free and mostly 98% functional. All the issues are as mentioned by others which means everything besides the Cummins engine internals, thankfully! A scan thru Craigslist tells me that the market price for a working 2wd 30-40 year old backhoe is $7-10k, 4wd $10-14k. Not starting, no hydraulics... that’s where the ‘deals’ might be found. But, ‘deal’ is misleading because mostly it’s sweat equity, you trade a low purchase price for your time and resources as a mechanic and parts department which commercial outfits charge at $100-150/hr. In my case I’m a slow, inexperienced ‘diesel mechanic’, so I figured my time is worth $40/hr. When I’ve finished I’ll have invested: - 120 hours labor ($4800) plus - $3500 in parts and expenses Which ends up right in that market range of $6-10k for a 35 year old 2wd backhoe. Fortunately for us, due to high commercial labor rates and because these machines are relatively easy to fix and don’t require many specialized tools we can own one for home/farm use. Basically it’s a $10k asset that is only practical if you can do the repairs yourself. My guess is that there are hundreds or thousands of such machines in existence.
A fellow here bought one new, made his living with it for years. No trailer, he hooked the loader bucket over the tailgate of a single axle dump truck. He never replaced it, just "faded off into the sunset". One day I found it laying on its side 3/4 mile from where he lived. He was dead at home. Autopsy said he died of a massive heart attack, he fell off in front of a rear tire, it ran over him & somehow wandered a very long way before it tipped over.
It just drives me nuts how people can know that youre coming from a few hours away and cant give an accurate description. I couldve saved alot of time yesterday had i been given accurate information regarding these machines. Its almost as if they dont have a clue what theyre selling or they think ill just show up, not look at it, throw money at them and leave. We went through this with campers, but this is way worse than that couldve hoped to be.
People don't care about your time or interests. I bought my machine off Ebay from 650 miles away. Asked the seller several questions and got nothing but lies for answers. I was told it had no leaks, 4WD worked, and brakes were good. He said it was a good old machine that was ready to work. It arrived spewing oil out one of the stabilizers, no 4WD, and no brakes. It wouldn't run for more than 5 minutes. Fuel tank was full of rust and lines were clogged. Thank goodness I was an auto tech for years so the transition to diesel mechanic wasn't too bad. He told me it needed an AC compressor. He failed to mention it was TOTALLY MISSING. He also said it only had 3000 hours on it. The tach face was broken and the hour meter had been pried to read 3xxx hours. Not too obvious. I would have rather seen 5000 hours and not had the tach damaged. I can't find a replacement anywhere. He hasn't had any eBay activity in over a year but if you ever run across and ad by TractorKing54 be very careful. He didn't have many negs when I bought but several came about after. Some stories were way worse than mine so I guess I was lucky the engine wasn't blown up. I still came out okay but I would have passed on buying had he been honest. I did get it way below what it would have been worth if all the answers were honest so I should have known it wasn't the deal being presented. I paid $12,500 for the machine and $1,250 for delivery. I haven't kept track but I suppose I have invested another $5,000 in parts. It still needs the brakes repaired but I have learned to get by without them and it gives me a good excuse to tell people it can't leave my property. The brakes are a bigger repair than I care to take on. A dealer north of me quoted $900 to reseal the pistons and another grand if if needed discs. In hindsight I should have had them pick it up but I was gun shy on people being truthful. Pretty sure I could never get my money back out of it but it still runs and I can still use it.
And we do. We have been neighbors for 20 years. We are both veteran tradesmen. He has seen my skills and operating philosophy. I have seen his. Our agreement is no doubt rare. We have both been asked to loan plenty of tools to questionable co-workers. I am truly thankful for the arrangement, and am ready and willing to follow the old line around here about "you break it, you bought it"
I drove to the Canadian Border in New York to look at a Case 580M in good condition with some rust. In pictures it looked OK. I got there, it had battery charger connected, engine was warm. It was inside a building. There were two NEW buckets. It had no floor at all. 1/3 of the flip up hood was missing entirely. I asked if I could take it outdoors. He went utterly deaf! I finally opened the door & headed out. That's when I discovered it had no brakes at all. Attempting to use the front bucket as the braking system, I learned hydraulics were non functional also. Stabilizers would drop to the snow, but would NOT raise the tractor. None of the other hydraulics had power enough to lift the component, or swing. Steering did not work. As I saw it, this machine was utterly dysfunctional. It was misrepresented. I'm always up for a project, but this was priced ready to work.
I tried the "You have more free time than me. You break it, you fix it" Years back when he borrowed the tractor with bush hog. After he had it for a day he matter of fact said: "Let me know what I owe you for the exhaust. I wondered why it hadn't broken off. I pushed some big Oak branches with it." I reminded him of our arrangement. He returned the machine with a vaguely similar muffler from NAPA. To make it sort of fit, he had to plumb it backward, & it flopped around loose instead of fitting. I chalked it up to an expensive education. I ordered the correct exhaust & drove the 100 mile round trip to the dealer to pick it up. Next round of readying to bush hog, I serviced the tractor, checked all fluids, tire pressure. I went to the house, and when I returned I was looking at the grill of the tractor from a distance. The hood was cockeyed! He had knocked it off its hinges. He told me of driving 4 miles carrying a large marble slab for a doorstep. I realized this slab wouldn't fit in the loader bucket. Thinking about it, I knew what had happened. He had hooked a chain to the marble, and the other end to the bucket. Long chain, he drove with the bucket fully raised, the stone swinging like a wrecking ball. 5 hours labor later I was a wiser man with a less than perfect nose on my tractor. It no longer gets loaned.
I thinsk the best way to find a good deal is. When you are out in the country driving. Back yard shop , when you see one sitting. ask the owner if he wants to sell. or run a ad in the paper or farm paper. wanted to buy loader back hoe in need of repair. the interner net seems to inflate prices I picked this one up, by advetizing in the farm paper, for $2000 and put a $400 rearend into it. hang in there, you'll find one just takes time and going off the usual path
I like DaveA’s suggestion to run a “working backhoe wanted, up to $xxxx, have trailer for quick removal etc“ ad. I see these ads all the time: - signs on telephone poles or postcards in my mailbox saying “pay cash for houses any condition “ - cash for cars boats etc The key to doing this is to let the owners know it’s going to be very easy to get rid of that yellow eyesore and have a stack of Benjamin’s in hand. Best results may be had if you advertise in more affluent areas which is possible thru Craigslist . Doesn’t hurt to try.
I have bought a couple of implements using WTB in the Craigslist Farm and Garden section. I've had a few jackass responses from them but ultimately got the implement I was seeking at the price I wanted to pay.
You can make money that way. It's what I do principally anymore.
Sooo I know lotsa people already said 5k is too little probably. Not impossible just unlikely. I'm in another country now but look at the Craigslist and auctions listing just for comparisons sake and it looks like 10k is where some kind of decent machines start. And even then you've got to be mechanically inclined. What's the checklist for old crapped out machines? Does it start, does it roll back and forth in all gears? Steer and stop? Do the hydraulic controls work? Do the loader and the tail pick up the machine at low revolutions, just above idle? Do the wheels spin in first when pushing against a stationary backstop? (that's the big one for me). Hydraulic leaks, blowby, etc, all that's fixed or lived with easily enough. Edit: oh yeah cracks or obvious sheety welds on important parts
Examples from Craigslist (it’s expected that most prices on Craigslist are 10-20% over final price) @Jshopes81 : This one looks good and is near Pittsburg, but you said you got one https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hvo/d/leechburg-1975-ford-3550-backhoe/7243115164.html : https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hvo/d/leechburg-1975-ford-3550-backhoe/7243115164.html Some examples of others: Case 310 $1000 https://springfield.craigslist.org/hvo/d/miller-case-backhoe/7233397166.html international $3500 https://topeka.craigslist.org/grd/d/auburn-2504-international-backhoe/7250641277.html
I'd pass on non popular/rare models and one where someone tried to rebuild the engine but obviously didn't have the required skills. If the oil pump was done wrong, what else was done wrong?
Also I'm sure the bearings are now shot.
Well, there has to be some risk to go along with the reward ! Without a sufficient amount of knowledge , acquiring an asset is gambling....but with knowledge and experience it’s investing. Your assessment is correct, there are definitely some unknowns about the most important aspect of the core component ie oil & engine....but if one went and spoke to the fella it may be possible to get a better feel for the situation, and convince the owner that due to the risk , the price is more like $1200. It’s just the usual horse trading thing.
I am currently in the middle of a similar rescue, but I got my 4500 TLB for FREE. Couldn't pass it up. Current parts include carburetor, fuel tank, clutch, radiator, and it will need tires. While accessible, I also did rear & front crank seals, water pump, hydraulic pump shaft u-joints, some gaskets & seals,... A guy one town over put it on Craigslist for free knowing it needed a clutch and did not want to deal with CL buyers beating him down. The pins & bushings look great; they are either replaced or have seen little use. Since it is 50 years old, my money is they have been replaced. I want to get a 12 inch trenching bucket for it as my 555B already has a decent size one installed.
I tried getting ahold of the guy with the ford 3550 with the botched oil pump and he was non responsive https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/hvo/d/hilliards-massey-ferguson-backhoe-with/7231464179.html Any thoughts on this guy? I know its got the swing motor, but the guy said it was just rebuilt, first time its been run since rebuild was today. Stephenson equipment in butler says they can get parts no problem on the old masseys. I passed on one massey that was pretty nice because parts were supposedly hard to find then a dealer nearby says thats not true. Any opinions on this one? Im not sure if 6 is high or not. I figure prices will go up after people get tax returns or coming into spring, how motorcycles do.
I jsut bought a realy nice 1982 case 580 E for $5000 needed shutle work . stuck $400 into shuttle. They are out there, you will find one if you are presistant. Was looking at a 680E with transmision problems. the guy would take $3200 for it . Problem is this is a pink elapahnt Thransmisions are hard to come bym and it was rebuilt before
It has nasty looking patch on the backhoe boom. Parts may be available from a dealer but they may be outrageously priced high. I would keep looking elsewhere.
Some older ones 300 miles away in ny/nj area, ( I know a good transport guy if you need one moved. ) $1500 https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/hvo/d/warwick-old-case-/7252824414.html $8500 https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/hvo/d/ridgefield-ford-555b-backhoe/7252055536.html Make offer https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/hvo/d/washingtonville-case-backhoe/7246738377.html $8500 https://newjersey.craigslist.org/hvo/d/clifton-case-580-backhoe/7242953516.html $6500 https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/hvo/d/poughkeepsie-case-580b-backhoe-loader/7235422553.html But this is the best one $11k obo, more money than you may want to spend but it’s 4wd and you probably can get it for $10k which is a good price. You’d definitely get your money back and a lot of work out of it: https://poconos.craigslist.org/hvo/d/lehighton-1987-case-580-4x4/7250982729.html
I really appreciate everyone thats taken the time to give input. You guys are easily as good as the other few forums im also on. Hdforums is a bit rough on newbies but you guys have been as good as the rv folks in my opinion. I passed on the **, i didnt even see the crack in the boom from pictures. Im trying to go look at a 401c over by wheeling with an asking price of 7, but may not make it there as my wifes grandmother is on life support as of this morning. Any thoughts on a 401c? Ive had great luck with my other deere product, but its mostly yanmar. Its been a great grass cutter. Im not seeing a ton of info on the 401c hoe, seems the 410 was way more popular if theyre similar capability groups.
Stay away from that 401. We had one nothing but trouble. It's an ag tractor they put a backhoe on. Very poor design.
Arent just about all of them from this era? Thats my understanding from what ive read and looked at. I also just got offered a 73 ish white thats been sitting. Guy said he rebuilt the shuttle when he got it and is too old to fool with it. Said hed pretty much give it to me. He did say something about a rotary injection pump. Ill check it out here this afternoon.
White is I think an Oliver tractor with a backhoe. I would advise you to stay far away from it. They don't even come up for discussion here.
Remember when searching online not everyone mentions “backhoe” in their ad , they may just say ‘case 580c’. So you have to search on specific models such as ‘case 580’ or ‘construction king’ etc. $3750 https://scranton.craigslist.org/hvo/d/narrowsburg-case-580ck/7243277327.html hartford ct , too far, Case 580 $3800 https://hartford.craigslist.org/hvo/d/pequabuck-case-580-construction-king/7238667854.html
Ya ive talked to the guy in scranton. Hes dropped the price some, but in pictures its extremely rough. If hes at 3750 obo i might reach out again. I know it had some wild repairs done on the part of the boom nearest the bucket. Is that the dipper?
If it had "wild repairs to the end of the dipper, I cannot imagine what the pins and bushings are like in the rest of the backhoe. If the bushings are wore out and the bores they sit are wallowed out you are looking at a huge money pit. Run away from that one to.
What about that sweet looking 4x4 in poconos? https://poconos.craigslist.org/hvo/d/lehighton-1987-case-580-4x4/7250982729.html
That sweet looking machine is clear across the state...transport bill is probably quite pricey.....DON'T be in a rush to throw your cash at something...especially if you are gonna try to dump the machine after you're done, as you stated in your first post...although once you finally get your new yella tool in your possession you're never gonna want to give it up..take your time, it'll happen...
Who's ever selling the ** on Craiglist doesn't have a clue what they have. It is definitely not an MF60. MF60 came later and had closed center hyd's. and was more boxy looking with a noticeably different self leveling arrangement. It's an early to mid 70's MF50A like the one below. I didn't see the plate on the boom but there are a lot of parts that would be hard or impossible to find. Massey Ferguson 50A TLB - YouTube 1984 MASSEY-FERGUSON MF60 For Sale In Bakersfield, California | MachineryTrader.com
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/291341408878834/ Any thoughts on this guy? Ive got a video too of it doing backhoe things too. Seems to run decent
I doubt it is a 410D. My 310 has a tag on the engine that say 310D and that's how the guy I bought it from had it listed. I think the D means Diesel in this case. If it were a D it would say on the side of the tractor, They were available with a turbo and 4wd, 1991-1997. The straight 410 is probable mid 70's. My 310 has a 3 cylinder engine and I'm guessing this 410 is a 4 cylinder, which would be nice, cause the 3 banger is a bit underpowered. I paid 7500 for mine 8 years ago. So 5000 seems pretty good for this if it all checks out.
The letters mean updated/newer models in most cases. 1985 looks like it should be 410B but the cab says it's older than 1985 to me. Would need a serial number to confirm the year. JD's use a more complicated closed center center hyd. system that is much more expensive to repair when the time comes. Seems like half the battle is finding someone who actually knows what they have and is honest about it.
Oh man, its enough to drive a person nuts. I was looking at pickups a few years back, and it was unbelieveable what people dont know about their vehicles. I needed a dually to pull my camper and wanted 4.10 gearing. Half of the people i talked to dont even know if theyre deleted let alone their gear ratio. Id have to tell people to take a picture of their vin tag or sticker in the glove box and id figure it out. I know for sure if i ask a person which transmission is in their 580ck and they dont even know how many gears it has or trans it has it hasnt been fully serviced as advertised. The guy with the 580b in mogodore couldnt figure out why his machine didnt have steering. Not only was the fluid not on the dipstick, i couldnt even see it in the reservoir. Im supposed to trust someones description when they dont even know what theyre looking at? Ugh its frustrating. Harleys are a whole bigger can of worms.
John Deere Backhoes are complicated. I believe that may be a 410. My 410 was built 1974. I'd bet this is plenty older than 1985. As two wheel drive goes, 410 is OK. It is the smoothest operating rear hoe built at the time. As a loader it isn't the best. Hydraulic plumbing is very advanced for mid seventies. I might still have mine if it hadn't needed a few small parts for the six section backhoe valve that was NLA from John Deere.
I attended the "SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS & BAD MISTAKES" I now know a great deal about those hydraulics. No more expensive than other makes, but it takes a bit to understand the hydraulics.
Some do, some don't. My JD 310E is open center.
Looks like the 410 was made until 1983. https://www.purplewave.com/auction/...strial_Tractors-Tractor_Loader_Backhoe-Kansas
Are you certain?
310E is open center but pretty sure the 410 or 410B in question is closed center. 310E Backhoe (deere.com)
I bought the shop manual when my pump went out. Very handy to have. AND I got a lot of help from the guys here at HEF.
Ya, i cant believe the amount of input ive gotten as a newbie to this forum. You guys are unbelieveably awesome. I just had a guy email me with a 580e extendahoe in ohio for 6500. Says it needs a brake line and a bushing in the front end. If the front end isnt needing replaced and its not too ragged out this could be a killer deal, but we'll see.
May or may not be a decent machine. I'm always curious when a machine appears to need minor repairs but they aren't performed. Seems like fixing a brake line and a bushing could bring the price up a few thousand bucks.
Very. On Dave's point about closed center being expensive and the idea of avoiding that in older machines. I totally agree with that.
I've owned a couple Deere 410 series. They have been closed center. I had been led to believe ALL John Deere backhoes are closed center. I've never owned a new Deere, but I far prefer to operate a closed center system. It's true they are very complex, few mechanics understand the older ones, & newer ones, only Deere trained mechanics can repair.
Here’s a Case 580e coming up for auction on Wednesday Jan 6 in mid Pennsylvania consider to take out a $40 annual subscription to farming classified newspaper “Mailbox Marketplace “ lancasterfarming.com or similar paper
Thats the kingpin that needs replaced. Is it my imagination or is that hole oblonged?
I got the same situation on mine and I couldn’t tell by just looking at it. Also , if worn , is it just one spot near the top of the hole or the full length of where the roller bearing cage presses against. I couldn’t tell so because of this doubt, I ordered the after market kit and will try it. If it comes apart then my plan “B” will be a piece of pipe or similar around the kingpin.
The seller sent a bunch of pictures and thats one of them. Im going to check it out tomorow before i start my hitch.
Wallowed out bushings are extreme! They prove serious neglect. These pivots are fitted with bushings. Old bushings are easily removed by heat. Weld a few beads inside the bushing, or heat with oxy acetylene. They then beat out with the right punch. New bushings are costly, I'll bet on this machine you will need a lot of them. Replacing bushings is tough! I have not found a good coolant to shrink them enough to press in. Dry ice might work, liquid nitrogen is twice as cold, but not available everywhere. Count the bushings worn on a machine. I'd give an average of 150 per joint for parts. I spend an average of 8 hours to freshen a joint.
Are new bushing available? Why couldn't you center the pin, measure and machine a bushing to fit in the gap tight as possible and go back to work? Have not done that myself, but why not?
The parts diagram for steering axle/spindle on a CASE 580se shows only a needle bearing cage and no bushing. The kingpin needle bearings are about 1” high, if the casting that the bearing sits in is worn away too much and not providing enough support, that thin bearing is going to break apart. I’m going to give mine a try but I won’t be surprised if the bore is damaged and I can’t even tell. If it’s worn a few thousandth of an inch that would probably be enough for the bearing to fail. One alternative is to remove the axle beam and have a machinist align-bore it. Another alternative is to replace with a bushing and keep it greased. Use of bushings on worn steering kingpin bore discussed on another HEF thread here
I priced parts for a rebuild of the kingpin at about 100$. I giess i can take a caliper and see if its egg shaped or ovaled out inside. I know some of the big trucks weve gotten from down south are worn flat out inside 100 thousand miles and their roads dont even turn much. Ill for sure be checking for other signs of neglect too. I get what your saying, if they skimped on grease there, did they skimp on engine oil too?
Split tension bushings are another option and not overly expensive. They also don't need to be frozen to install and will work on a less than perfect bore. Still have to fix an oblong bore first though. They also don't normally require grease. I used some 2-1/2" ID by 3" OD to fix my backhoe swing post pivots. I installed them with Loctite 660 because the bores weren't perfectly round. Working great so far. CONNEX - Spring Bushings & Pins (connexusa.com) Split Tension Bushing - Hercules for o-rings, hydraulic seals, cylinders (herculesus.com)
I will expect the bore is out of round. I can't see from the picture whether there is a bushing. If the parent bore is worn you'll have to have it line bored & a machinist make new bushings to accept the bearing & new kingpin. They severely neglected this joint. It is a good bet they neglected others. A backhoe includes hundreds of pivots, how many others will need repair?
as for that auction flyer i would be the most interested in the old JD scraper unit
Well, i just got done with my hitch and im back at it. Ive got a few prospects. https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/...ut=false&refCode=MESSENGER_BANNER_SEE_DETAILS And https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/...ut=false&refCode=MESSENGER_BANNER_SEE_DETAILS We discussed the price on the case and its not going to be anywhere near 10k. I looked at it tonight, its got some play in the rear boom pivot, 5500hrs, and what seems to be a good bit of bloowby to me. Its not a fog machine, but its definately got a good stream coming out of the breather. The machine sat for 8 years after an ex husband bought it and the new husband inherited it and got it running pretty good. The ford seems to be a good runner and is in good pretty decent shape. Its got around 5000 hrs. The case is close to home, but the ford seems to be in a little better condition. Any thoughts on these two? Thanks again!
The Ford looks like it is in much better shape, at least in the pictures. It is less money, and comes with a 12 inch trenching bucket as well. I would buy the Ford. Just my 2 cents. If you do buy it and don't need the trenching bucket, I would be interested in purchasing it from you. Good luck!
Theyve both got trenching buckets, the one for the case just isnt shown. I do think the ford looks better cared for, the case sat from 2011 or so until 2 years ago when husband 2 got the injector pump rebuilt. As far as pricing, theyre going to end up about the same.
The rebuilt injector would add several hundred dollars of value in the equation. IMHO.
Don't let looks deceive you. Either one or both could have unseen major problems.
I don't understand how you can ask 10K for a machine but can't even put a $100 seat in it. It's one of those things you instantly notice and sticks out like a sore thumb. All the cylinders could need repacking which could cost well over $1000 and potential buyers will figure they're easy enough to fix but a bad seat can be a deal breaker.
All about that curb appeal!
I would argue that the heart of a backhoe might be the transmission. Pay special attention to how well it works.
If they can't do something simple like replacing the seat, god only knows how much maintainence was neglected.
I agree If you are just using it for a few weeks. Renting might be the way to go. the old backhoes are hard to find parts for. The gray haired guys that give tech support are not on the net. I've lived thought the hard to find parts with 2 allis loader backhoes, and a IH loader backhoe. Stick with case, Ford, Deere or JCB. Look for ones that are made for the taske . lot of the older ones are farm tractor conversions. If yo are looking at one. See if you can get transmision parts, shuttle parts along with hydroulic pump parts.
I was more concerned with the amount of blowby on the case. My seat on my john deere isnt in that condition, but the tractor doesnt look great, but i keep up on my maintenance well ahead of time on everything, i just cant hold a seat against the guy.
Im pretty much looking exclusively at case and ford/nh. The parts availability seems to be the best for those two brands, at least in this area. I thought about renting, but for the price of a rental, if i do my due diligence and get a machine thats decent mechanically, i should be able to resell for what i buy for or close. I also dont work a regular 9-5, or anywhere close. I want something to have at the house i can use when i feel like it.
I don't know but looks like it could be another case of looking at things with rose colored glasses. The seat isn't even the original. It's a generic seat that's probably about $100. You have to remember the machine was left there. It could need a lot of work. Buying a less expensive machine and then hoping to recover the cost later is a huge gamble that usually doesn't pay off.
Ya, tax return time is just around the corner. Thatll up the budget and work is looking to be pretty steady this year. I would have made a killing in 2020 if job prices and job bonus werent so effected by the rona. Hopefully oil prices will stabilize now that weve got a vaccine and people start burning gas again. Im not greedy, i dont want 150/bbl, but 50 hurts.
Make sure I will say this again make sure if you get a Ford 4500 you double check the power steering, may seem like it has it when empty but when you got a load on the front it's not going to be pretty. Mine I didn't realize had the lines removed for what reason I don't know but for $3000 it was cheap, now I'm possibly going to have to replace or rebuild the power steering ram due to rain that possibly ruined it and possibly the pump since it may be the reason it went out. Trying to find parts for the power steering or the hydraulic ram is going to be next nothing. After this past week of moving dirt for a RV pad across 22.5 acres I'm sore, got any idea how much a yard of wet clay weighs combined with driving up and down steep hills!!!
I don't know. I no longer need or want something, I sell it. Where did we get to the place where a 40 year old tractor has to be totally restored to sell it. A nice backhoe new might cost $120,000. Why is it a crime to offer it for 8% of its replacement value with a ratty seat? If you don't want it with a ratty seat, don't buy it. The seller hasn't cheated you selling it with a worn seat.
Just seems like a decent seat would make it a lot easier to sell or at least get a better price for very little investment.
Dealers often freshen up a tractor, get more for it. Private sellers don't always do so for their own reasons. It isn't always easy to replace a seat. Once I find a suitable seat, I have to build mounting for it. A dealer supplied correct seat can cost thousands. I did have an upholsterer, did a few for me, she retired.
The seat in question was generic like you'd find in a farm supply store for about $100. It could add at least $1000 to the sellers pocket.
The other side of the coin, that seat is like lipstick on a pig, if they don't fix the leaks, change the oil (filter from the Clinton administration), or get it to start right, why would you pay more for one with a good seat? might as well spray paint over the rust and grease.
That's why it makes you wonder if the seat is a $100 fix, what else is really wrong with it? The asking price started off at 10K.
Mine had a bad seat on it when I bought it. Not only was the seat upholstery portion torn up, the pedestal was all loose and wobbly. I had just reupholstered by boat, so had some leftover material to make a new one. Welded up some the broken metal around the pedestal. It made for good weekend project on a new to me backhoe.
I do not care if the seat is ratty or not. Is it a good machine that is not neglected and has a major defect. I can replace or recover a seat. I am not sure where you guys are finding machines in perfect condition for $10,000 or less. I was looking for months when I bought mine. I wanted a full size machine and 4WD. Seems $10,000 bought me a 45+ yr old machine in mediocre condition. I opted for a machine that was 30 years old for $9,000. Like machines were selling for $22,000-$25,000 locally. Mine runs, starts without assistance and drove around. The boom would not stay up. I had one cylinder replaced, tube was dented so needed a piton and new cylinder. That was $1400, I replaced one messed up rod for $1100. With new glass and tires I will have about $16-18,000 in my machine. I will have all new hoses, rebuilt cylinder, glass, tires and rebuilt brakes. Buy what you can afford and what your skills can handle.
Should have gone to see it yourself, Buyer beware
Always need to inspect in person or have someone you trust inspect it for you. There was a guy here who used to work for a contractor and decided to be a used equipment dealer. Only he tried to make it seem like all the machines were from his company and were his favorites and that's why they weren't sold when he retired. Everything was listed as premium condition. There was a big flaw in his story though. If they're in such premium condition and were his personal machines where are the owners manuals and more importantly the service records?? Oh, all that got thrown out when I closed up shop and sold all the other machines. Yeah, right. He wasn't around very long. Some were decent machines but when it's painfully obvious he's lying about the machines being his, how can you trust anything else he tells you. He was terrible at trying to be a used car salesman. He should have just been honest and he wouldn't have come across as a shyster.
Just as a frame of reference for any current readers, I picked up my 1994 Ford 555D for $8500, it's a 4x4 and Extra-Vator (Extend-A-Hoe). Had a need for tires and a little shuttle electrical issue, but running like a champ now. Looked for two years before I jumped on this one. Extremely happy with it. Bushings and pins nice and tight, lots of grease. Well taken care of. Does need a steering cylinder rod end soon also. Definitely pays to be able to do your own maontenance/repair work.
Good find. Patience and perseverance.