I'm looking for an older dozer to use for farm and some excavation work. I want to clean brush, clear roads and hedgerows etc. maybe some larger excavation. I have a case 9010b and a ck35 rubber track skid loader with a brush rake grapple. I was looking at older D6 machines or maybe a newer D4h high track. I like those machines and I feel they are tried and true. They are also on the more $$$ side. I just found a 74 int. T20 on my local Craigslist and wondered what you guys thought about these machines. Also I believe bein a 74 it would be a td20 not a t is this correct? Ill try to attach some pics I the add. I believe the machine could be bought for less than $10,000. I have not looked at it in person yet. What should I look for or watch for? Thanks
The v-8 motor is of particular importance, not that its a bad motor, just spares are really difficult to find.
That V8 is also expensive and difficult to work on. I am getting out of the business and have a good CAt D7E here. She is a good strong machine with power shift, hydraulic blade and a cable unit to pull pan if desired.
stumpjumper is right. That td 20c uses a dvt 573 international engine--same as my 250c
If you could find a D6D (4X prefix) that was running well and had some undercarriage left it would likely last you for years. The 3306 engine is reliable and very common in a number of applications, the tractor is easy to move, and it would likely do everything that you wanted it to do.
Thanks for the input. What are the big differences between the B,C and D cats? I have found 2 D6B's in my area. Also found a 62 D8H cable blade 50%UC sierial number 46a04664 power shift. Asking price is $1400 I'm a little scared if something that old. I know sometimes you can do the same amount of work with a newer smaller machine than you can with some of the old giants due to speed.
Thanks for the input. What are the big differences between the B,C and D cats? I have found 2 D6B's in my area. Also found a 62 D8H cable blade 50%UC sierial number 46a04664 power shift. Asking price is $1400 I'm a little scared if something that old. I know sometimes you can do the same amount of work with a newer smaller machine than you can with some of the old giants due to speed.
I am also new to this but from what I understand in searching is a D6B is not much different than the later D6-9U's it will be non turbo, gear drive, dry brakes and steering clutches. it will have a oil bath main clutch. I think there could be some transmission differences but not sure about that. The D6B basicly turned into the D5 and could be had with powershift. D6C's gained a lot in size were all wet brakes and steering clutches and there were several serial number breaks mostly on engine horse power with the D6c 10K serial the most powerful at 140 hp. Not sure about D6D as they were out of my price range but I don't think they changed drastically. I was looking really for a d5b as they upgraded to wet brakes but ended up with a D6c. Happy hunting and hope I am on the mark. Dave
I have run a number of old tractors including 2U D8's that were cable, but I was not aware that they made a 46A with a cable dozer, winches to pull a can, but not the dozer. Is it a front mounted winch? If memory serves, the 35A D8H was a torque converter driven tractor that used the diesel fuel from the fuel tank for converter fluid, great to run in the winter but running in the summer, especially when the fuel was low, was miserable. The 36A D8H was direct drive, and the 46A powershift. 46A's are probably the most popular tractor ever built. Replacement parts would be very easy to find, and I suspect it is worth well more than $1400 just for scrap. If the tractor you are looking at has a gas pony motor for starting it can be easily converted to direct electric starting, although the pony motors were great in the winter as you could turn the diesel over for some time and warm up the oil before actually firing the big engine. If you ever worked on much of a sidehill you wanted to put a couple gallons overfull in the transmission or they would kick out of gear. As I recall, the transmission was prone to leaking into the finals also. No big deal for casual use, just be sure to drain excess oil from the finals occasionally. I have run 9U D6's, both cable and hydraulic dozer, but have no experience with the D6B (37A and 44A I think). Track adjustment on the 9U requires a big wrench and some ballast. If they are maintained and cleaned occasionally they are not too bad. The 46A will have hydraulic (grease fitting) track adjustment. On any of the old tractors, as well as new, track adjustment is important for good track wear, and high speed reverse should be avoided. Cable dozers are not bad at all to run once you get used to them and learn about their idiosyncrasies. Perhaps I am preaching to the choir, but if you have not run one there are a couple of things to know. Try not to drop the dozer all at once until it hits the ground as this will cause problems with cable spooling. Keep the clutches and brake adjusted well, and NEVER, NEVER climb under the dozer when it is raised. Obviously the amount of down pressure you have is limited to the weight of the dozer, but if you encounter hard ground you can usually build yourself a bit of a mound to back one track onto and get started with the corner bit. This is much preferable to getting off and manually tilting the dozer. Thanks to all for enduring my ramblings here, the subject has brought back a bunch of memories (most of them good!)
I have run a number of old tractors including 2U D8's that were cable, but I was not aware that they made a 46A with a cable dozer, winches to pull a can, but not the dozer. Is it a front mounted winch? If memory serves, the 35A D8H was a torque converter driven tractor that used the diesel fuel from the fuel tank for converter fluid, great to run in the winter but running in the summer, especially when the fuel was low, was miserable. The 36A D8H was direct drive, and the 46A powershift. 46A's are probably the most popular tractor ever built. Replacement parts would be very easy to find, and I suspect it is worth well more than $1400 just for scrap. If the tractor you are looking at has a gas pony motor for starting it can be easily converted to direct electric starting, although the pony motors were great in the winter as you could turn the diesel over for some time and warm up the oil before actually firing the big engine. If you ever worked on much of a sidehill you wanted to put a couple gallons overfull in the transmission or they would kick out of gear. As I recall, the transmission was prone to leaking into the finals also. No big deal for casual use, just be sure to drain excess oil from the finals occasionally. I have run 9U D6's, both cable and hydraulic dozer, but have no experience with the D6B (37A and 44A I think). Track adjustment on the 9U requires a big wrench and some ballast. If they are maintained and cleaned occasionally they are not too bad. The 46A will have hydraulic (grease fitting) track adjustment. On any of the old tractors, as well as new, track adjustment is important for good track wear, and high speed reverse should be avoided. Cable dozers are not bad at all to run once you get used to them and learn about their idiosyncrasies. Perhaps I am preaching to the choir, but if you have not run one there are a couple of things to know. Try not to drop the dozer all at once until it hits the ground as this will cause problems with cable spooling. Keep the clutches and brake adjusted well, and NEVER, NEVER climb under the dozer when it is raised. Obviously the amount of down pressure you have is limited to the weight of the dozer, but if you encounter hard ground you can usually build yourself a bit of a mound to back one track onto and get started with the corner bit. This is much preferable to getting off and manually tilting the dozer. Thanks to all for enduring my ramblings here, the subject has brought back a bunch of memories (most of them good!)
any old tractor will come to you with a lot of repair work needed immediately. They didn't quit using it for a reason. If you want a project that will end up with a tractor you can depend on look for as nice a 6D as you can find, then prepare yourself to spend a lot of quality time in the shop (or in the field under a tarp) with it and your tools. A D will have better cooling than any C, combined (power boosted) steering clutch/brakes, pretty decent rops cab (but still really loud), agile, powerful enough for just about any job, and you can drag it around with a two axle trailer. parts availability is paramount with any old tractor and D6 parts can be found cheaply everywhere. remember, there will not be any "good, cheap" old tractors for sale. good luck..
Old Dozer There is one on this forum, he's an Admin....Oh No...wait!...thats right, Sorry, He's an Old Digger not an old Dozer. My Bad ointhead
That's ok, Squizzy. I understand the basis of your confusion. I'm sure you frequently find people dozing off when you begin talking.... :sleeping :tong
Ok thanks for input guys. Ill keep looking around. I may just rent a newer D6 and get some of tasks out of the way.(a full cab machine wouldn't be bad now that it's winter anyway) then ill have more time to look and maybe find a deal. I agree with you guys, you get what you pay for. The money saved on the machine will most likely be spent on parts.
Can you guys tell me a little about a D7 #17a9915. Has hyster winch. Direct drive says its a D7D.
My book says they were made from 59 to 64 160hp 26355lbs .
The first machine you posted looks like a TD20C or E but I don't think the E's were being made yet if it's a 74? That engine is a V800, they only used them in those 2 models and then went to Cummins power. They are getting hard to find parts for and are very costly to rebuild but they worked out well for IH in a crawler, the large 4wd ag tractors used that engine also but the governed speed was much higher and they had some issues in that environment and application. Generally the entire C line of IH crawlers were some of their best but like all things that was a long time ago now and the lineup has changed ownership a few times.......parts are probably starting to become a problem.......it would be D7 equivalent sizing, the powershift and steering was a nice operating feature, could probably repower to later Cummins easier than fixing the old..........does it move and operate OK? Rightside rail looks a bit slack and that one has a bulldozer instead of a bullgrader which would be better for roadbuilding and dirtwork than brush......
Thanks for the info. I have not yet looked at the machine in person. I'm hoping to shortly. What is the difference between bulldozer and bullgrader? Are there any things to look for on these machines other than the normal UC wear?
Bullgrader the blade angles, better for brushing and clearing, bulldozer (see it has tilt) is better for dirtwork and building grades....... I would maybe pull an oil sample given those engines expense, run it through it's speeds, forward, reverse and turns and try a stall test holding the brakes to check the temp........sometimes they work ok cold and then the issues show up when they get warm or work on a grade.........
Ok thanks. Ill keep that in mind when looking it over. Ill try to take a few better pics and let you guys know what I see.
Interesting, all these years running equipment (since 76) and I have never heard the term "bullgrader. Angle, straight, semi-u, full u, 6-way or PAT (power-angle-tilt), but never bullgrader; perhaps it is a local distinction. We ran a D7G alongside a TD20 for a summer and as I recall the TD20 was a bit more dozer then the Cat, and quite nice with the 2 speed steering. I prefer the Cat, but that is probably mostly personal bias. I think hardtail's advice re: the oil samples, stall test, etc. is good.
The 3T and 17A d7's that I ran were all cable dozers. Good old tractors for their time and they would pull down in RPM until you could almost count the individual cylinders firing. You could tell the difference because the 3T had spoked front idlers, and the 17A solid. Get a good hold when you go to crank the pony motor as the kick back was vicious if you caught it just right. At night you would see flame and a bright glow from the exhaust. The tractors that I am familiar with all had the two winch set up on back for pulling a can. I guess they must have made front mounted dozer winches if you had a hyster winch on the back. Damn, I must be old, eh?
Ok thanks. Ill look it over and let you guys know what I find. I also think I may be able to get it bought well under $10,000 maybe even as low as $7 it's been forsale for a while and last I knew he was asking 10 obo and now just asking best offer. I don't think there are a lot of people looking for a machine like this in the area. Or maybe it's just a wore out piece of iron. Haha guess there's only one way to find out.
Haha, I have seen a few larger old cable dozers still being used around a few farms.i actually looked at an old d8 or D9 cable and it was pretty impressive even by today's standards. In its hay day you must have felt like nothing could stop you once you pulled down on that throttle. I always like walking through old yards and auctions seeing older iron and thinking about the things it's seen and done.
If it comes completely apart I guess scrapping it out would cover a good share of the cost with scrap iron prices as they are.
I have some old advertising literature that explains the difference.........have to see if I can find it and scan it for ya...... IH's machines didn't quite match up like OB says, they were about half a cat ahead or behind which ever way you looked at it.........LOL
cat performance book does not give the serial # break but there are two runs of 17A's, low horse and high which had 140hp, weighed 26555# (must be without blade, winch etc). I was around one of these a little when I was a youngster who loved this iron and even though it had a clutch it was a good performer with the turbo motor. It would not produce what a D6D will, but not far behind. I am not sure if it had wet brakes or clutches. To get a feel for how old it is, the newest run of turbo motored machines were built from '59 to '61.
If I recall the main problems with those DVT800 engines was the rubber in the harmonic balancer deteriorated and they would let go, check on that, they can be rebuilt.........the ag engines had problems with the air filters loading up quickly working in dusty conditions, you had to religiously keep on top of that........ Heres a link to IH's early blade literature, straight vs angled, this must be when they first started supplying their own dozers for their lineup........ http://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32173&#entry298471
Ok guys, went an looked at the td20 today. Looks very solid and doesn't apper to have been cut up or welded on. It also started rather quick with no either even with temp down in the low 30's. has new chains and grouser pads on both sides, rest of UC looks decent. Ran machine for a while and was able to push around a wet pile of gravel big enough to stop machine. Steering seemed to be on track all gears appeared to work well. In lower gears I was able to get both tracks to begin to loose traction when pushing. Machine was original owned by a local county highway dept and was bought at auction by this owner. The one problem it has is oil showing in the radiator.i talked to a few local mech. They have pointedly toward the oil cooler. Oil cooler doesn't look hard to change and I don't mind turning wrenches. As a farmer and working with equipment I have had more than my share of experience holding a wrench.any thoughts?
The oil cooler may have been changed once before and what you are seeing is residue from the system. Just a thought.
Sounds like you might have found a real good survivor......the highway dept thing might have helped......if your starting to slip or spin the tracks on a big load sounds like the converter and tranny is working as it should........if you can get it for under 10K that probably would be just U/C parts.......might have to fab up some sweeps if your going brushing to try and protect that cab and glass......
Thanks for the help guys. Yea I figure ill have to fab up some sweeps and ill prolly see if I can't fab up or purchase a root rake as well.
I think that is a D model,just before they started building the E, those were some good tractors is what I've been told.
Hi guys. Still shopping around for a brushing machine. I'm still watching the td20 but I'm letting the guy sit on it well I shop aroun a little more.(I don't think it's going anywhere soon) I found a 75 td25c that has a bad turbo. Machine looks like its in better shape than the 20 plus it's bigger and the same price. It's an ex state owned machine and still Has a state serial number. Not sure if that is of any use to me. How much bigger is the 25c than the 20?
They are quite a bit bigger, the C was a good model for them but do you really need a dozer that size? It's a pain in the butt to move but if it's only going home for good? They had an 817 engine that is getting expensive to rebuild and find parts for also......probbaly not as bad a the DVT800 but not much better.......figure about a comparable D8.5 for it's year......think the bare crawler was around 68,000 lbs.......
Lapatra, the td20 you were looking at. What series is it? C, E, G? Any idea on the year?
I believe it's a C. I think it's early 70's. it has the dvt800. And the heavy dozer blade.are there any ways to tell them apart? I looked it over pretty good. It's not in bad shape I just wonder if there is something the guy isn't telling me about why he's getting rid of it.
Serial #tag gone? Are you sure it is a V800they have the injectors inside the valve cover V573 has them on the outside
I have serial numbers written down I just have to remember where. Ill look. There are some Pics of it posted on the 1st page of this thread.
Ok found some numbers. #4260125U25173 that's the cassis and I believe this is the motor# 574TCU2 and I have a 5265 number. It's showing oil in the radiator and needs an oil cooler,#613894C92. Do these sound right?
I'm not trying to discourage you from the 25......if you have large projects it's the machine for it if it checks out......do you have any pics, any idea what the state was using it for? Hours?
The 25c is being scrapped out. The guy figures he can get more that way I guess. I'm still watching the 20 but I'm now wondering if maybe something like an older case 850. There are a few of them around for decent prices and I think they are tested machines. Parts would be easier to find as well.
Shame it's going for scrap.......they were a good machine for IH..........so why did he change his mind from for sale to scrap? More future toyota bumpers on the way i guess.........
It has been sitting forsale for a few years I guess. It needed a turbo and a track adjuster seal....and who knows what else would have came loose once it was running after sitting so long. It is a shame to see it cut up.... Damn. Do you guys have any experience with an older cat with a direct drive? I'm guessing you pick a gear 1-4 and then have a forward and reverse shuttle. Is the clutch a hand or foot clutch? I found a mid 70's D7 cat. 4cyl direct start with a D4D hyster winch.
Yair . . . Lapatra172. Yes select gear in main box, forward and reverse with second stick and hand clutch, not a problem. Direct drive is much more sprightly than powershift. A few years back I was on two identical Kom. 65's, I preferred the stick shift machine with tilt cylinder on blade to powershift without. Cheers
Yes my book says 1970 TD20C with a573B engine if that one has the two speed steering and it all works ok they are a good tractor, I have a (E) with the two speed steering it works better than the (dead track) steering in the old cats we have.
So it's a 573b not a dvt800, are there more of these motors around than the 800?