I don't know why I keep getting into stuff that I have little experience on but here goes. I have a customer that bought a 400 or so KW Cat genset. Like usual he bought it sight unseen and when it got here there were parts missing. I was able to get a parts book the covers this set and about twenty others. Apparently you can spec these things out like a boat engine. Serial number on the engine is 1LS01528 which the Cat parts people tell me is a 3406C. It has the old manual fuel system hanging on the side of the engine and a handle to run the throttle manually. The generator number is 8ER04366. I've given it the once over twice now and the repair / replacement list keeps getting longer the more I look at it. I haven't worked on or seen one of these before so any information would be a big help. I have a couple of photos that might jog a memory or two. Any info on what to look for as far as throttle controls and shut off mechanisms would be appreciated. So far I believe someone stole the throttle control from the engine governor and there is no shutdown motor connected to the lever above the throttle shaft. It appears this monster has all the emergency shutdown stuff installed, but no way for it to be hooked up to the fuel system. I've been trying to find a service manual for the unit but so far no luck. I do have the parts book and operation and maintenance manuals, but again they don't really show this unit specifically. The maintenance manual shows the generator with a 3408 and bigger engines. I haven't even started to look at what is wrong with the generator yet. All the covers are only held on with a couple of bolt here and there. The inside of the control panel is coated in heavy oily kind of dust. My last question for now is can the engine be run without the generator producing any power. I'd hate to put a lot of seat and dollars into this thing only to start it and see a lightning bolt turn the engine, generator and myself into a wet piece of charcoal.
Yes, you can run it and no lightning will come out if you stay away from the generator end. Just make sure it runs at 1800 RPM or whatever rated speed is and not any other speed, as much as possible.
There are a whole bunch of wires in there I think for all the phases. Shouldn't there be four wires not connected to anything that need to be kept apart?
Don't know with that gen end specifically, but many are 12 leads and are re-connectable for what voltage and phase configuration you want. Depending on what you have on the data plate, if the leads are labeled we should be able to tell you that it's hooked up right with some pictures. There may be a diagram inside one of the panels. Be careful if it turns out someone's been digging around in there.
Dont quote me on this but the genty leads should be nema standard 9 lead or 12 lead just like a motor. A electrical hand should tell the rest. And what is really important is to hook the volt regulator up to the correct voltage. Or smoke will fly ask how I know. At least this is the case with some ac delco units I've messed with.
I read somewhere that this is a four pole generator and I can find diagrams on line that show the many ways it can be hooked up. I'm thinking a generator specialist will be necessary before I turn the engine over. All the larger gensets that I've had to work on had a mechanical or electric throttle control. This one only has the handle in the photo. The parts book shows a threaded rod with a spring hooked to a bracket and to the bottom of that handle in the photo. Does anyone know how load control and slope and all that can be controlled with just a manual throttle?
I used to have several Cat generator manuals but a quick run through my manual room didn't turn anything up other than one that is dated June 1978 so that's going to be to early for a 3406C, it's a drawings manual. If I have some time later I will take a closer look but I think I probably got rid of the others so that I wouldn't be temped to use them.
Are the main leads of the generator all disconnected? Take a picture if they are and we can help get it in a safe running condition. Should only take a couple rolls of electrical tape. Then you can test the engine at least. If you want to test the generator then we can help you wire it up. It's not rocket science but there is potential for smoke if done wrong, but it is done all the time. You don't need years of school or anything.
Here are a couple of photos. One shows the mess of wires dropped into cavity behind the control panel and the other is of a decal that shows EMCPII. I'm guessing this thing has some kind of mystery box that controls everything.
Oops, hit the wrong button and didn't get the photos uploaded.
That looks totally standard inside there. Doesn't look to be messed with, but if you can get the lead numbers/ID from each of those cable tags and tell us which are connected to which at the four taped ends, can confirm that it's still set up for 480vac.
That mess of heavy current wires taped off is how they made these things up, just the way it is done. Unless bare metal is showing it is normal. I can't quite tell from the picture but the connections in the lower right of the box should be the load connections, connected to the breaker or load terminals or whatever. What are they doing in that corner, are they laying there unconnected?
I believe this unit might have been in the oil fields. I also believe that in might have been in a building or a trailer as there is a hole in the top of the panel with some rubber where it looks like the wires came out of and probably went into a switch gear panel. What also make me believe that, is the exhaust system out of the turbo only has the adapter to something that is missing. I believe it was an elbow connection that went to a muffler mounted in the building or trailer. In my mind there should be four lead wires that would have connected to something which are probably taped off or bare and laying in that mess. I'll do some more digging next time I'm up there. The engine is my main concern for now. The fuel strainer was full of the black gelatin that indicates lots of biocide in the fuel tank is going to be necessary after I pump out the fuel.
The fuel shut off solenoid is missing from the back of that injector pump. I would assume it had one.
I've been trying to figure out what goes in that hole. The parts book doesn't show a shutoff solenoid there but does show an old style hour meter. It does show a shutdown motor hooking up to a lever above the throttle lever. There is a lever there but it only moves a little and just stops. There is a three wire harness connector in that area just hanging.
That hole in the governor is for a tach drive. The shutoff is above it where that hose comes out and heads back towards gen. Where does the hose go . The throttle control is just the lever. It should lock in at 1800 rpm or low idle. You can start it at low idle if you want. All governing is done inside the mechanical governor so I don’t see any problem or pieces missing there at all.
Here's a B model on highway, different in fuel shut off, like said above.
Thank you gentlemen! That answers most of the questions I had about the engine. The black knob is apparently part of the engine protection system. The hose goes up to some kind of valve by the thermostat housing on the front of the engine and then down to the oil gallery. I'm thinking that the engine won't start and run unless it has a minimum amount of oil pressure. What I'm wrestling with now is since the drain port on the pump has been open, for who knows how long, should the pump be removed and sent in, opened up to make sure moisture hasn't frozen things in place.
That's a Murphy's law situation, damned if you do and damned if you don't. If it was me I would have it checked out, better to error on the side of caution. And there's the 80% possibility that there is nothing wrong with it too. Except that Ralph the spider that's been living in there will have to find a new home.
Looking at your original picture, I think that "Y"/chicken foot looking piece with the two slots needs to be rotated over to the top so that handle has those two slots to lock into (1800 and low idle) and a linkage/threaded rod installed from one of the two holes to the bracket sticking out towards the rear of the engine for the fine adjustment to hold it at 1800. Hope this makes sense (just got home from an 8 hour drive across a couple states), if not I can get on the laptop and try to illustrate it...
Yes the fine adjustment rod and nuts are missing as mentioned above. It wont lock in the way it is now but can still be run like a normal throttle. It probably wouldnt hurt to get the pump inspected. The thrust washers and governor weights do get worn in one spot because it runs at 1800 all the time. I usually rebuild the governors on a regular basis to prevent runaways.
I think it should look like this.
I've got the parts for the throttle identified and will send the parts list to the owner in the morning for approval. I am nervous about starting the engine and having it misbehave. The strainer was full of bio jell but the filter was clean. Is it possible to pull a cover on the to make sure the fuel control rack is free to move?
Thanks for posting the parts list.
Its got an oil pressure fed shutoff. Shuts off for lost oil pressure or over temp.
Yes you can pull the small cover with 2 bolts up by where the pump mounts. You will see the rack in there with a notch in the top. Put a screwdriver in the notch and see if the rack moves. You will need it at full throttle and fuel shutoff in run position to freely move the rack. Number 10 is the cover.
Thank you! That is a easy way for a go / no go test I can explain to the owner on what needs to be done. I appreciate the info and will let you know what I find.
If you do get to the point of firing it up my 3304 SR4 has a low oil pressure switch that when you shut it down will pop out do to low pressure. You have to push the button in every time to restart.
I'll look for it. Thanks!
I pulled the cover off and see the rod in the back of the hole. I could not move it at all not matter where the throttle was set. The rod is also extended all the way to the left side of the hole. I also pulled the mechanism in the back with the black knob and see that it presses on the shutdown linkage in the governor. The external shutdown lever on the side of the governor works when the black knob is pulled out. I pulled the cover that is in front of the injector pumps and see some rust just at one end of the gallery. I'm wondering if one or more of the injector pumps could be stuck. With that rod froze I suppose that means the pump needs to get torn down. I also got into the control box for the generator. It is covered in red dust and sticks to everything. The same dust is all through the generator windings. I pulled the side cover off and checked the big wires. They have metal tags on them. The three that look like the output leads have tags that say 1, 2, 3. There are two wires each and a small wire. I'm figuring these are likely the output wires because they are routed through the circular pick ups. I checked resistance to the generator frame on each with an ohmmeter on the 200K scale and they all start at 17 and gradually go up to 21. I know they need to be checked with a megohm meter but I don't have one at hand. My suspicion of the past history of this unit is that it was in a flood.
If that injector pump has rust inside the owners will probably choke at the price to rebuild it. MO
You would need the shutoff with the black knob removed to move the rack. The rack will be over to the left when you look in the hole. The long side cover is the fuel supply gallery. If there is rust in there and no fuel I would bet the plungers and barrels are seized. That would keep the rack from moving. I wonder if there is water in the oil side of the fuel injection pump too. If there is the rebuild would get pricey. What’s the engine oil look like? Is there a voltage regulator mounted inside the gen housing or just wires?
Thanks for the replies! I removed the black knob and tried to move the rack. I moved the throttle control to all positions while trying to move the rack. The rod never moved. There was fuel in the gallery and just a spot of rust on the lowest side. I haven't checked the oil side of the fuel pump but will when I get back there. The engine oil looks like new. I've called the local Cat dealer about rebuilding the fuel pump. The generator people don't do that apparently and the guy I spoke to was pretty much uneducated about generators. He told me they don't rebuild them, only swap them out with rebuilds. I called the machine side of the company as I know they have a rebuild area and a competent wrench who knows all the Cat products. I'm waiting on a call back. I don't see anything that looks like a voltage regulator in the control box that sits above the generator. What is there, is a control box that is the EMCPII style control box. Everything on the tags on the box show 24 volt which is the alternator and starter electric system. I've read in the O&M manual that some units don't have voltage regulators and are meant for oil field use. It does have a dial to fine adjust voltage next to the readout panel. I pulled some of the sheet metal yesterday when I was there and noticed that on the end of the generator is a smaller generator that I think is a field generator. It's kind of the same thing as found on old Lincoln DC welders.
There should be 2 wires from the little field generator going off somewhere, that is where you will find the voltage regulator. The voltage regulator feeds DC into the field generator which is rotating on the end of the shaft and then the field generator feeds power to the rotating main field which is the large bulky rotating part. If there is a voltage adjust knob those wires should lead to the voltage regulator as well.
Thanks, I remember seeing the two wires attached to the back of the field generator and I think two wires going into a loom. I'll look again when I get back up there.
When I say remove black knob I mean take the 2 bolts out of the cap and remove the whole shutoff including the hose. There will be an oil filled plunger spring loaded to off position.
Update on the project: The fuel pump was pulled and taken to the local Cat dealer. The mechanic there pulled the plunger and barrel assemblies and found number 1 to be stuck hard. All the rest of the P&Bs are damaged. All will be replaced with new. Since the engine condition is unknown, it was decided to make the pump operational and get the engine to run so we know what we have. We aren't doing anything with the oil side and governor at this time. We do know with the damage to the P&Bs that the nozzles are likely to be junk as well. The cost for an exchange fuel pump was just over $5,400. The current work and parts will run a little over $3,000 not counting the remove and replace. Asking prices for used gensets of this size are anywhere from $28,000 to around $40,000 depending on configuration. I should have the pump back next week to re-install.
I put the fuel system back on the engine last weekend. The owner bought new batteries and I built all new 2/0 battery cables and solder on ends. Got all that finished today along with a battery disconnect and a remote starter button. Bumped the engine over a little at a time after I primed the fuel system an noticed a bit of smoke. Turned the motor over regular and saw the oil pressure gauge go up and the darn thing took off running. No muss, no fuss. Ran smooth so I shut it down and decided to check the monitor panel and the manual start function on that. It has a barrel switch with markings for cool down, manual start and auto function. I put it in manual start and away the thing went. Again it was smooth as you please and the monitor panel worked. Show 485 volts when I adjusted the engine for 60 hertz. I shut it down as I saw a truck driving up. It turned out to the the owner and he didn't know that I had it running. I called him over and said watch this. The smile on his face was priceless when that engine kicked off so quick. He has been sweating the buyers remorse bit for about six weeks. There is a lot more work to do but the big issue appears to be passed us for now.
That's great it took off without a hitch.
hi, i was wondering what the minimum hp requirments for a sr4 genset are
There are literally a gazillion different variants of SR4. "SR4" actually refers to the design of the generator rather than the size. So if you are asking about a specific generator then please post up the information from the data plate, especially the Serial Number.
Hi Nige. I was looking at the 3304 sr4. Could a 3204 turbo work that size generator? Thanks
What's the issue.? 3304 engine bad.? Post the generator set Serial Number if you can it makes it much easier to chase down info. If the 3304 is NA then I suppose there might be a possibility that a turbo 3204 could have the power for it, but too many unknowns to start with.