Searched on here and really didn't find thee best answer on rotary lasers I was looking for. Pretty much just starting out a excavation company and looking for a quality unit mainly for footers, driveways and grading. Possible much larger projects in the future but don't want to break the bank for a $3000 unit. Spectra Precision I have heard are great units but I need some experienced advice on my best buy. Thanks in advance!
I bought a topcon RL-h4c without looking at it first or any research..it's a nice laser and all but I can't figure out the slope adjustment. It has slope but you cannot set it to a certain number. I have yet to find out what the slope would be if I pushed the button twice or 13 times. I would definitely get one that you can adjust the slope on!
topcon makes nice lasers, the RL-H4c is nice but i wouldnt buy it if you are really going to do slope. its a nice cheap unit for basic flat work. if you want one that does slope your going to end up in the $3000- $4000 range and look into one that does both X and Y slope not just one so its more versatile.
I'm thinking Spectra GL522 or UL633 for myself.
Depends on what you want to do. I recently purchased the Topcon RL-H4C and I am happy with it. Does everything I want it to do. The range is great, setup is a snap and it's affordable. I got if for $600 with a tripod and grade rod on Ebay. I would like to have a dual slope laser but investing $3-4K right now on a laser isn't in the cards.
Heard great things about the topcon stuff so may go that route. There is a local store that carries and services them so that may be my best bet. Also do you have to get the machine mounted models or can any of there receivers be fitted on a machine easily.
Looking at their website, does that one offer a slope function? My first "major" job (hopefully) is installing 240' of 18" storm drain to replace a ditch, then filling the ditch and bringing the area to grade. Then building the driveway base and house pad. It seems like I would be best served with a dual slope laser.
how are you going to use the dual slope for that job? i cant see you needing a $3000-4000 laser for that job maybe a single slope for the pipe but the driveway and pad should be pretty straight forward.
you can use the laser on machine mounted receivers but you need to buy a machine mounted receiver and a pole to mount on the blade of your dozer or magnet mount for the side of your excavator stick
So then the packages designated machine mount are key? They are pricey!
The pipe is single slope but the finished grade needs to direct water to the catch basins. My theory is the only disadvantage to a dual slope is the price. For doing surface drainage, dual slope seems like the way to go. I would hate to buy a cheap laser, then have to buy a more expensive laser to do something the cheap one couldn't do efficiently. Buy once cry once kinda thing.
Went with topcon rl-h4c didn't want to go to crazy and quality seems to be there with these units
You'll be happy with it! Except when you need to put a slope in a new parking lot and can't figure out how to put your desired slope into the laser :beatsme
Well it was explained as level it out. Walk out 10ft and start pushing buttons Til your desired slope is measuring on the stick. Or just tilt the tripod and go to manual mode lol
There is a slope match function, I haven't used it yet. What % slope is your 18" pipe designed for? You can set pipe with your regular laser but it's time consuming, calculating each joint. You may want to rent a pipe laser to set the pipe. As far as grading to drain once the pipe is in that's what the bubble in the butt and the eye is for, if you don't have grade stakes. I have been happy with mine so far. Does what I want it to do. When we do parking lots the surveyors put in offsets for the curb, islands, etc with grades. Rough grade to the offsets, set some blue tops, match the grades and it's done. I have graded a many parking lots for small to medium commercial/retail buildings and never used a laser, just a 4' level and folding engineers rule to set blue tops.
I have a Spectra 422 dual slope that I bought used from the local Cat Rental Store for $2300. It works very well, you can set each slope digitally, and it has a remote that is very handy for making slope adjustments without going back to the laser. You have to eyesight the direction of your slope though so I set two points off of level and then adjust the slope to dial it in. Drawbacks - it is super sensitive. If we have the laser (aluminum tripod) set up on snow or ice and the sun warms the legs at all it will shut off due to movement. Also if ground vibrates at all with machinery walking it will shut down. These are good precautions but a pain in the butt when super precision is not required.
.5% is what I designed it for. 18" dual wall HDPE. Why is it time consuming? I presumed you could make an adapter to fit in the invert of the pipe, punch the slope into the laser and go from there? The UL633 works as a pipe laser too, trying to find some comparison between it and the GL522 to see what the downsides are. I figure I can eye ball finished grade, but I certainly want to check it. The area is only 15-20' wide. The customer is a great guy, an existing customer we've done tree work for. Still he's been known to be rather exacting regarding his houses. The masons on his last house (next door to this house) didn't lay the brick to his liking so he pre it out and hired some masons from 3-4 hours away to lay them. Here's the ditch, the driveway's centerline is 45' from the head wall in the second picture. The .5% slope gives us 15" of cover to the base of the driveway, on the far side of the drive. Here's his last house, yes, he painted over the relaid brick. Newb question, what are blue tops? Grade stakes with blue on the top that denote finished grade?
If the slope is .5% I would just use a 4' level as that slope is basically level taking into the account the give and take of your bedding, etc. in that short of run. The job I am on now has a fair amount of 15" HDPE. Easy to work with compared to RCP and it's forgiving if you have to make adjustments. Just make sure you bed, haunch and backfill the pipe with proper material. Here we used #57 stone (1/4-1") clean washed stone. The backfill is an important structural part of HDPE pipe. Let me clarify on the time consuming part, in my feeble mind I was thinking setting it with a regular laser and having to calculate each rise/fall in the joint and adjust the grade rod. I have never used a tripod mount slope laser to lay pipe just standard pipe lasers. It should be easy to set pipe with a tripod slope laser. Set the slope, account for your pipe thickness and set your bedding with the laser. I wouldn't want to do long or complicated runs as a pipe laser does two functions - slope and alignment but it would work on smaller runs that are easier to keep aligned. That's a good question, yes. Basically they are hardwood hubs, similar to what surveyors use for hub grades, that have blue plastic "whiskers" or "chasers" you tack on them once to grade. I use them for building pads and setting curb/gutter grades. On a building pad, just set up your laser and reference the site benchmark to get your grade for the floor slab. When the pad is close, I have a grade checker (most times myself ) set hubs in a 30' pattern or so across the slab, keeping them somewhat in a grid pattern. Then take a dozer, skid or whatever you are using and grade to the hubs between the grid. On curb and gutter, the surveyors will set offsets - here it's usually 3' or if you know the crew they'll set them at whatever you want. Get the curb line rough graded cut or fill. For cut, take a 4' level, place on the surveyors hub and level it. Use a folding rule or tape in tenths ( Home Depot has a 25' tape in tenths and inches and the wooden engineers rule) to measure the cut. Reverse the procedure for fill, placing the level on the fill and measure to the hub. Keep in mind what grade the surveyors are giving you. Here it's standard to give top of curb, designated as "TC". You have to calculate your curb height and any paving section to achieve the subgrade elevation. When you are within 2 tenths or so, set your hub using the method above and tack your whisker in. I like to leave the hub a little high before I tack the whisker in. That way it gives you a little room if your whisker takes a little more "persuasion" to tack on. It's aggravating and time consuming to reset the hub because when you tacked the whisker in you pounded it too deep.
Excellent information! One day I'd like to come by and see your operation/do a bit of learning. Next month marks 10 years doing tree work, and I'm working on branching out into niche contracting work. I turned in my price on the pipe, essentially $23k to go from that ditch to seeded and strawed yard. Bedding the main run of pipe with sand, 30' with 57 for the driveway (6" bed, 12" cover), concrete head walls, 1.5T of river rock per head wall to hide it/aesthetics. Two catch basins set on a foot of 57, 6" concrete apron around the grates. He already had a price of $6500 without headwalls he thought was high. A well known, established company. I learned my lesson on pricing a non spec'ed job! I imagine he did that on purpose to keep the price low and make them liable for the design. In the same conversation, he's having me go spend 3 days at his camp house cleaning up fallen trees ($5-6k) and he wants me to get him a number of days estimate to clear the house ASAP. Bet we don't do the dirt work for the house/drive, I'm not going to cheap out doing 3-4' of fill!
Columbus isn't that far away, I need to swing by and get some pointers on taking trees down with a saw. I can lay'em down with a machine but my saw skills are lacking when they're already laying on the ground. What's 57 stone going for a ton in your area? Your price sounds a little high comparing it to our prices. How many LF of pipe and what type of structures - nyoplast/ADS or pre-cast? Is there a City/County spec for the driveway turn-out or is this a private road?
Come on by! We currently have a plethora of work although it comes and goes. Taking down 7 decent sized trees on (our) hwy 69 Thurs/Fri/Mon. $22/T for limestone. 243' between headwalls. The river rock he wanted is $315/T, 3 tons. Precast catch basins from B&B in Tupelo, $918 delivered. They said the bottom section weighs 3600lbs, so to be safe I put in a boom truck in case (given the slope) the AL540 didn't like it. That was $700 (certified signal man, 4 hour minimum :/). I could have worked that out cheaper, but he was breathing down my neck for a price so I wanted I be covered. All told my materials were around $13250 with tax and a 25% markup to cover delivery and oppses. I added $1k because to cover any additional delivery charges and for a work change allowance for him. I figured 7 days to get the work done. 3 to lay the pipe, 1 day to do the headwalls (poured in place concrete with rock overlay), 1 day to backfill and rough grade, 1 day to spread the topsoil and final grade, and another day to seed/straw and have some extra time for things that took longer than expected. I was also figuring on 10 hour days. I figure labor was around 20-30% higher than actual, which is inline for most bidded jobs I do (vs hourly). I accept that that is rare in the contracting field. No city ordinances/code for storm drains. It's a city road.
57 stone is $13.50 +/- a ton delivered here but we have so many limestone quarries, they dot the landscape. Are your precast inlets knockout boxes? I really like working with them as it's easy to knock out the size hole you need for the pipe, minimizes brick and mudding. I retract what I said earlier about your price being high, actually you are right in line with what I would have bid it at, giving the spec's. I roughly take storm pipe materials and double it to get a price, then add anything that might be out of the normal scope like deep pipe, multiple structures, etc. You have poured in place headwalls with a stone facade so that definitely adds some cost. $315 a ton for river rock, that must be some nice rock.:cool2 My basic labor rate is $27.50 per hour. My average labor burden is $20.25 per hour, factoring WC and employer paid taxes. It's not high enough to make any money but it's about all the market will bear at this time. It needs to be $35.00 or so but my 953C also needs to be $145-155 per hour as well. The market conditions just don't support those numbers but I have been increasing rates every so slowly in the bids I have submitted, lost some and won a few. Time will tell.
I didn't get that detail with the catch basins, I'll remember to figure that out next time. I presumed they were going to be cast in holes, but now that I think of it, I understand the situation much better! :lol: I was only going to use stone for the 15' either side of the driveway's centerline (16' wide drive). I was going to use sand ($10.70T + delivery) for the rest of the pipe. The river rock is just that, nothing special. The big rock was about the same size as 100lb rip rap. Aside from gravel here and there, my area has nothing in the way of rocks. I figured there was a fair chance I could find it cheaper elsewhere, that's where the home owner suggested getting it. You're saying you make $7.25 per man/hour on labor? Does that include yourself? That's plumb awful unless you're making your money elsewhere! My planned work year runs from March through October, and even still we are rarely "busy." I don't have any employees, my climber and the groundy are both subs. Still... you must be making your money elsewhere!
Getting back to the subject of lasers, believe it or not, I use a Dewalt and have been very happy with it for years.
My newest laser is a TopCon RL100-2s. It's a programmable dual slope laser. I decided to buy this unit (in the $3-4k range) because I felt that I wanted to buy a better quality laser than the ones I had purchased in the past. I have had the laser for several seasons (this will be my 4th or 5th). I am not sure that I would recommend this level to others. I have had some problems with it. More than I would think is acceptable for a high quality instrument. Often, usually when cold, it will give me an E-83 error code. I have returned, it several times, to my supplier. While they have been great by giving me a loaner, they have not been able to find out why it is doing this. Even TopCon has been involved (the laser even went to them) and they have not been able to figure it out either. Ultimately they gave me a new one. While I do feel as though this is great, I have had the same issue with the new one (all the loners too). Of course, I am the only person who has ever had this isssue, according to my supplier and TopCon. It must be due to my specific environmental conditions and/or the way I treat it. One of the features that I like is that it comes with rechargeable batteries. They seem to last a long time, can run the instrument if plugged in to a receptacle (while charging), and the unit can be run on D cells in a pinch. I read one post where someone was complaining about sensitivity in the "transmitter upset" feature. While this is certainly a PITA it is much better than grading the job to the wrong grade if the laser is bumped. On my TopCon this can be turned off. Prior to that unit I have purchased a much less expensive laser. I started out with a CST LMH400. It is also a programmable dual slope laser. I'm pretty sure it's made in China. After about 3 years it would fail, about once every year, and require service. That's hard to complain too much about as any laser should receive anual callibration anyway. This laser lasted about 8 years before I was told by the repair shop that it was no longer worth repairing. While I still had the CST I purchased a David White as a second level. I don't recall the model number but it is the same unit as the CST with a different cover. It has proven to be a little less trouble than the CST but does seem to consume batteries faster. It also has proven to be less troublesome than the TopCon, and will usually work when the TopCon refuses (extreme cold). Same job, same day, same time. So far the David White is still going strong. It resides in the crew truck and is used almost daily. If memory serves, the CST cost me about $1,700 (bought new in 2001 from White Cap) and the David White was about $2,000 (I think I bought it in '05). Both included a story pole, case, tripod, and receiver with the transmitter. The David White also included a hand-held remote. Both run on D cell batteries. I would like to clarify something about the dual slope lasers that I have seen. Lumberjack had stated that he wanted to do a parking lot that drained to a swale (esentially creating a valley as I understood it). I am not aware of any laser that can broadcast (2) grades along the same axis. This is what would be required to make a "V" unless you set and graded one side of the valley at a time. As with any laser it has (2) axis..."X" and "Y". The (2) axis are set 90 degrees from one another. If one wants to set both axis on a slope this can be done but it is essentially the same as making a table top that is pitched forward, and to the right (as an example). Another thing to note is that if you are using the slope feature, for pipe or grading, the laser MUST have the sloped axis parrallel to the intended slope. If one works along a radius, or has a curve in the pipe tie, the slope becomes in-accurate. The farther away from parrallel, the less steep the slope will be. Working a radius can be done but it requires frequent reseting of the laser and is still not accurate unless the radius is composed of a bunch of short straight sections that deflect where they intersect. I hope that this makes sense to the reader.
Bump. I didn't get the pipe job, but I've got the job of putting in the house pad and driveway. Around 1k bank yards to cut out and 5.5 yards of fill. The job has the budget for the laser built in. I know I want a grade rid and receiver as well as a machine mount receiver. I still presume a dual slope laser is the way to go long term although I'm honestly not sure what applications would require a dual slope. To my knowledge, the two options above seem like the best choice. I plan on ordering this week, maybe tomorrow. Budget wise I have allotted $4k as a ballpark for the setup. I would like to keep it under $5k although I'm fine with it being under $4k assuming it's a solid choice. Any final words of wisdom?
UL633 and kit, 2 HL750s, and CR600 ordered today.
I wish I'd caught this earlier. I picked up a Sprectra LL300 with a CR 600 tripod and stick for 1050$ from Midwest Construction Equipment in Warsaw In. . IT will do slope with the optional remote. As far as a pipe laser I have a Sprectra I'd sell, just tested . I just don't use it any more. You will like that CR600. For pads its great . For lateral fields and footers not so good as a ground man.
Who did you buy from? Wish I had found this forum earlier. I work for the Sitech dealer in Memphis. We sell Spectra lasers and Trimble GPS products. If you need anything laser related or a calibration done, let us know
Good to know, I'm going to check the laser's calibration soon, rather than trust it out of the box. I bought from MidTech Services, $4100 in all. My only complaint thus far is the tripod is ungainly large to haul in the truck and far bigger than I'll likely need. Also the head of the tripod needs two set screws, as it wiggles on the one. In the next month or so I'll actually put the laser to work, it's been too wet thus far aside from some layout work.
Sounds good. We were down past West Point last week doing a GCS900 install on a D6N for Century Construction. We are new to the Memphis market and trying to get word out that we are open and ready for business. Anything we can do for you, just let me know!
I went with an AGL brand of laser and am very happy with the slope function. I shopped around quite a bit and the best price was at engineersupply. They had other brands but I ended up going with the AGL EAGL.