Gentlemen, need help with a drainage issue using a LAZER LEVEL. On my personal farm in SW MS, I had a lake constructed 12 years ago. The terrain is gentle to moderate hills and where two ravines merged into one, a large dam was built. It was calculated from the original layout and perimeter elevation survey to be 13 acres when full. Unfortunately, it has never reached full capacity due to not enough drainage uphill and more so due to leakage. To make a very long saga story of why we thought "LAKE LEAKY" has been leaking down to a certain level all these years, we are happy to report we just recently discovered where the leak is and soon she will be fixed!!! (Actually, my nemesis, "Mr. Beaver", showed me the leak and it was not the dam!!!). Assuming it will be successfully fixed and holds water, we have determined how we can capture an additional 42 acres of natural drainage area and re-direct it into the lake on a permanent basis. In doing some GPS elevation checks on the projected water line at full capacity, we found the water level will be approximately 9 ft BELOW the absolute bottom of an adjacent ravine which parallels one of the dammed up ravines. That adjacent ravine drains 42 acres and my plan is to direct that water into the lake by installing a drain pipe THROUGH the ridge and into the lake. The top of the ridge separating the two ravines is approximately 22 ft high and 320 ft wide. Luckily it has gentle slopes on both sides. The pipe trench will be approximately 320 ft long and end up "banana" shaped when completed. I want to put in a min 1/4" drop per ft. Digging the trench is not my problem. I own/operate a JD 160 LC Excavator and a JD 650 H Dozer. The trench will be dug with a 24" bucket. I also own a CST BERGER self leveling Lazer Level with receiver. I don't believe it has the sloping feature. SO FINALLY MY QUESTION: How do you use the Lazer level with such a high hill to dig through? Obviously I cant set up the Level at the bottom of the ravine, as the beam will be hitting the side of the hill. I cant do line of site in the trench due to it only being 24" wide AND banana shaped. Also cant attach the Lazer receiver unit to the digging stick, due to digging depth!! This is where I need experienced help or suggestions. Where do I set up the level? If on top of the hill, do I just determine my bench mark using the receiver on a LONG stick and then as the trench is dug (towards the down slope), calculate the 1/4" drop totals for every 10 or 20 ft and just re-position the receiver unit on the stick accordingly? Sorry this post has been so long winded. But I hope to hear back from some "professionals" with experience in this area. Hopefully someone knows of some neat tricks using the Lazer.
the biggest and first issue i see with your plan is you want a minimum of 1/4 inch drop per foot, at 320 feet thats 80 feet of drop ending you up more than likely way below the bottom of the pond. unless i read it wrong it seems you need a slightly modified plan. you will more than likely need to move the laser throughout the job which isn't a big deal since you can just reset it on a known grade. also will your 160 reach 22 feet deep? and are you planning on having someone in the trench putting the pipe together? if you do your going to have to shelf it like crazy to make it safe. for the laser if you are putting in 10 foot sections of pipe you could just set your laser at X for the top of your ravine where the waters coming from and then adjust X+ 1/4" per 10' of pipe giving you some pitch and ends up around 8 feet total so you would be at or slightly above the ponds water level. when you get to a point that the laser can't read anymore due to obstructions or height issues then simply mark your pipe or trench at a given number move your laser and set your rod to that number to continue on track right down the trench. hope that makes some sense
Uhh, 320 feet x 1/4" per foot equals 6.67 feet (80 divided by 12). Other than that I concur. This is why I was told 34 years ago that only carpenters and lady's of the evening use inches, everyone else uses tenths.
I would think you would be better off using a gps system than using laser. I have not used laser. We take old maps over lay them on to newer maps and then go out with our drill rig to map old stream beds. Were able to map out the stream beds with in a foot and upload to the excavators for the operators to use. We did try putting gps receiver on a bucket one time, but we found it to slow and single issues. If you mapped it out with gps and then you could go back and put in the trench with the computer. You could set up the drop per foot and see how it works. When you go out to dig you can set it up to show how deep to dig for where your sitting. We use dual roof top usb gps receiver and use a laptop mounted in our excavators to run the software. Once everything is set up about anyone can use it. Setting up the maps can be the fun part. We are using software that was made more for farm type work. We did try software that was made construction, but at the time it did not work for what we needed. Oxbow. We use metric it's a lot better.
Metric makes the math simple as well, but better? If we had all converted (United States) 30 some years ago when they started to we would have probably been better off, but it wasn't a popular idea at that time. I think the gps would be great, but certainly not necessary for DM22's project.
Thanks for the quick reply Eric. Please correct me if I am wrong, but at 1/4" per ft drop (.25), which is a pretty standard drainage slope, its not 80 ft. It is 80 inches which will equate to 6.67 ft at the end of the 320 ft run. I agree with your suggestion of moving the level around and just resetting it. I don't see any other way around it. My only question is, for every 10 or 20 ft interval of checking to get the grade right, should I adjust the position of the lazer receiver accordingly on the stick? Example, for every 10 ft of run, the pipe needs to slope 2.50 inches. So for every 10 ft, do I move the receiver 2.50 inches UP the stick? Is moving the receiver every time practical? Is that how it is done? The reason i keep asking this, is just because I own this Level, does not necessarily mean I am proficient at using it!!! I've actually only used it for leveling things. Never a sloping situation. Concerning the 160, yes, it actually does reach 22.something feet down. But I already planned on most likely having to bench at least the highest part of the ridge to get it down some to work it easier. No big deal there. AND to answer your concerns about someone down in the trench, I had actually planned on addressing some of the safety concerns someone might bring up from my first post when they read how deep and narrow the trench will be, but it got so long winded, I left it out. So here is what we are doing to be safe: NO ONE will ever get in the trench once it reaches 6 feet or so in depth because of it being so narrow. I could not imagine asking someone to go into a dirt trench 24" wide and 22 ft deep!!! I wouldn't do it. Our plan is to either pull, or push, or maybe both, the pipe into the trench. I have long sections of "Pull Rope" leftover from my electrical working days. Each section of pipe is 24 ft long, double walled corrugated plastic, which is not that heavy to deal with. Each section will be #9 wired together to keep it from pulling apart. So from the uphill side, we will put together one section at at time and then push or pull it in the trench. And, WHEN, not IF, some of the sidewalls fall in before the trench is finished and the pipe in place, I have some 4' x 24' x 12" solid oak crane mats that I will put crossways of the trench so that I can walk the 160 back across so I can clean any fallen dirt out. Don't think I want to try and straddle the finished trench with out them. To easy for one side to shear off and lay me on my side.
Thanks for the quick reply Eric. Please correct me if I am wrong, but at 1/4" per ft drop (.25), which is a pretty standard drainage slope, its not 80 ft. It is 80 inches which will equate to 6.67 ft at the end of the 320 ft run. I agree with your suggestion of moving the level around and just resetting it. I don't see any other way around it. My only question is, for every 10 or 20 ft interval of checking to get the grade right, should I adjust the position of the lazer receiver accordingly on the stick? Example, for every 10 ft of run, the pipe needs to slope 2.50 inches. So for every 10 ft, do I move the receiver 2.50 inches UP the stick? Is moving the receiver every time practical? Is that how it is done? The reason i keep asking this, is just because I own this Level, does not necessarily mean I am proficient at using it!!! I've actually only used it for leveling things. Never a sloping situation. Concerning the 160, yes, it actually does reach 22.something feet down. But I already planned on most likely having to bench at least the highest part of the ridge to get it down some to work it easier. No big deal there. AND to answer your concerns about someone down in the trench, I had actually planned on addressing some of the safety concerns someone might bring up from my first post when they read how deep and narrow the trench will be, but it got so long winded, I left it out. So here is what we are doing to be safe: NO ONE will ever get in the trench once it reaches 6 feet or so in depth because of it being so narrow. I could not imagine asking someone to go into a dirt trench 24" wide and 22 ft deep!!! I wouldn't do it. Our plan is to either pull, or push, or maybe both, the pipe into the trench. I have long sections of "Pull Rope" leftover from my electrical working days. Each section of pipe is 24 ft long, double walled corrugated plastic, which is not that heavy to deal with. Each section will be #9 wired together to keep it from pulling apart. So from the uphill side, we will put together one section at at time and then push or pull it in the trench. And, WHEN, not IF, some of the sidewalls fall in before the trench is finished and the pipe in place, I have some 4' x 24' x 12" solid oak crane mats that I will put crossways of the trench so that I can walk the 160 back across so I can clean any fallen dirt out. Don't think I want to try and straddle the finished trench with out them. To easy for one side to shear off and lay me on my side.
DM22, you are correct, just add (raise) the receiver on the grade rod according to your slope and increments (2% slope is pretty close to 1/4" per foot) 10 ft increments add 2 tenths or 2.4 inches if you are digging from the top to the bottom, subtract if you are digging uphill. Problem may be in getting the grade rod to the bottom of the trench where it is deep without getting in.
GRAVELWASHER, OXBOW, thank you both for your reply's. And OXBOW you are correct, a GPS system is not in the budget for this one time use. Although it sounds cool to have and use. On a different note, I am new to this Forum stuff (January). Can either of you explain to me how you were able to show a quote within your reply or post? I wanted to do that in response to ERIC's math calculation, but could not figure out how. Also, I see at the end of each post, you can choose "EDIT POST", "REPLY", or "REPLY WITH QUOTE". And then on the left side I see "REPLY TO THREAD". What is the correct one to use and when? What is the diference in "REPLY" and "REPLY TO THREAD"? As you probably can see, due to my ignorance have accidently sent Eric the same reply twice!!!
Thanks OXBOW. I have a LONG extension rod ready to go to get down deep in da trench!!! Hmm, after typing that, seems like I have wished I had a longer extension rod on many occasions!!!
Looks like you figured out the "reply with quote" DM22. I am not well versed in the nuances of the forum, but there are some tutorials like how to post pictures etc. available on the home page. Others will no doubt help you out as well.
I DID figure it out OXBOW! Perseverance prevailed!! I will go look at the tutorials. I may post pics of the first project, which will be fixing the leak in the lake.
Oxbow. I guess that I think metric is better after using it for 15 years. I started using it in a Japaneses auto plant in the USA and have been using every day from then. Like I said I have never played with a laser. I was also looking at the fact of how deep he might end up having to dig at some spots. You can find gps for a laptop for under $400 and a usb gps antenna for under $50. Once you learn how to use it you will find tons of uses for it.
What is the accuracy of the gps system that you are refering to? I would be interested if it is closer than the typical recreational grade handhelds. Sorry folks, a bit off topic.
Oxbow. We use USGlobalSat BU-353 USB port GPS Receivers ($25.00 on amazon). They get us to with in 6” of a marked spot when moving and the receivers sit still for 30 seconds they are much more accurate. I can find a 2 year old dill hole with in a few minutes of getting in the field. You want to mount them on the excavator inline with it's pivot point so it's sitting some what still when it is digging. We use a second cheaper receiver on excavators to track witch way it is pointing. The software that you use dose not matter as much as long as it is able to do what you need.
Thanks gravelwasher, I had no idea that a system of that price range would have that accuracy. My wife uses handheld trimble outfits (6 to 10 thousand dollars I think) for her work but they are sub-meter accuracy only. For some of what we do for preliminary design on stream channels .5 foot accuracy would suffice. So do these run without a base station? Some of the survey grade equipment can't be used here mid afternoon due to lost satellites because of the mountains. Dm22, I apologize for hijacking your thread. This stuff should probably go in the gps section.
No we do not use base stations. Most of the time we are able to get 4 or 5 good satellites. When it hits 3 satellites it's still usable, but I don't trust it as much. For grading we set the receiver on a tripod and set the height of the receiver off the ground in the software. We just pick up the tripod and move it from place to place as needed. We do not do much grading that has to be accurate or I would set it up on the blades of the grader. Sorry for hijacking Dm22
DM22, i'm very happy to see your enthusiasm but this project and digging this deep is not going to be easy at all, especially if you don't have much experience in this type of work. I suggest you get a local contractor to come check it out with you and get a visual of the layout of the land and help you plan this before you get started. Based on your comments, you probably already have and are just looking for more info. Nothing wrong with that. A John Deere 160 will not reach 22' feet deep, and even if by chance it does, that has to be at an almost straight vertical under the machine and it will be in no position to be trying to grade for pipe. You will have to bench at LEAST half the depth of this to use your excavator efficiently.
Austin is right about the 160. You may dig 22', but only a foot or two at a time. Because your ditch is not too long, I would sugest trying to dig not much more than about 12' deep with the machine you have. Lay out the cuts deeper than 12' and pre bench them wide enough for the machine to sit in it and dig the lower cut. You will bail more material, but save countless headaches doing this. The $400 GPS units talked about may work for locating something, but will NOT be adequate to dig a trench that will need to gravity flow. The advise on moving the laser and resetting the receiver on the rod will get it done for you. Even at no more than 12' deep you may have a tough time getting it graded exactly without someone in the trench, but absolutely do not let you or anyone else in without shoring or benching. No pipe is worth killing someone in a cave in. With good planning and use of advise from sites like this, you can get it done. Good luck to you.
Do as you wish, but I've done similar jobs before, if you have a dozer and an excavator, start digging a very wide trench, push the dirt away with the dozer and dig it wide enough to be safe and not kill anyone, then go rent a slope laser to save yourself a lot of grief, yes you can do it with a laser level, but for some rental, simplify your life and do some slope calculations with the slope laser ahead of time, using turing points to save grief and save the points when moving dirt so you can base off them so you know that your on target when laying tile. I missed where you said the size of the pipe your laying, but I'd guess its pretty big for the drainage area you talking about. On a second note, toss out the number nine wire and forget it, replace that with some self tapping screws, long enough to hold, make sure they are stainless steel and your set for life, number nine will rust out in a few years, use a cordless drill to put them in, all the way around the pipe connection, if your using bell and cup, which I'd recommend toss away the rubber gasket as well, it'll give you more grief than they're worth for your application. Install one section of pipe at a time as you dig back, meaning hands on installation, meaning moving lots of dirt to make it safe, its your job, your equipment, your time and your land, sit a day or two moving dirt from the seat to save the grief your gonna have any other way, then push the dirt back when done, packing it as you go, if you just dig a trench, the water will follow the trench and you get to do it again in a few years, also use some form of plug bracing around the pipe, even if its a metal plate with a hole cut in it, so the metal is bigger than the tile by three to four times larger with hole in the center, so it helps to keep the water from following the pipe, pack some rubber inner tubes around the pipe and the hole to seal it up tight, do this at least every hundred feet of length of your ditch. Also do a good job of packing dirt under the pipe or whats called the haunch of the pipe, otherwise it'll crush the pipe over time when the dirt below it settles, dual walled will crack lengthwise as it sags without proper packing. Note, make sure enough dirt is moved to do this by hand safely and not having to worry about anything collapsing on top of you or anyone else. Any other way you want to do this, you'll get to do it over again in the upcoming years, either from the pipe collapsing or water following the line washing out the dirt in the trench. Backfill with the dozer as you go, with at least three feet of dirt over the pipe and then pack with the dozer as you go, this will help to get the pipe into the work zone easier. Shoot laser readings off the trench bottom as well as the pipe top as you go, make sure there's no gouges cut in the trench where the pipe will lay also ovoid over digging the trench at any time, if you have voids under the tile or you fill spots with loose fill that will settle differently than solid undisturbed ground, causes the pipe to crack over time and collapse depending on the amount of fill added. Dig the trench wider than needed, but in the area's where the plug or filler plate is put in, don't dig that area any wider than the plate you put in, then pack it well as you go with the dozer after the pipes and filler plate is in. Where you get to the area where your putting in the intake, offset dig the line to the intake, meaning dig the line off to the side and then install the intake 90 degree's to the line, so the water has to change directions in order to follow the line down the hill, or at least puddle up and slow down before following the line, if that makes sense to you. If I've totally confused you sorry about that, if you have questions, ask, I'll try to make it clear as to what I described. If I had to do the job, I'd also get a laser receiver on the stick of the excavator to use to save time, if not, an idiot stick with a idiot running it will do the same thing, just use communication a lot and make sure its a safe work zone for everyone, and depending on the tile size, my trench wouldn't be over four feet tall with sloped sides as well, but I've dug tens of thousands of feet of line in like this, again I don't like grief or worry. I'd also drag the tile sections into the work zone with a four wheeler too, lay them in place with the excavator as I went backwards digging. Your planks you want to lay down are a nice idea in theory, but your making far more work out of the job than need be, do the work from the dozer and excavator seat and save yourself the grief your going to encounter, just my observation and two cents worth, but do as you wish, best of luck.
THANKS to EVERYONE above who has offered their input and advice! All points well taken. (except one point about using perforated pipe...not sure why that even came up???) Sorry i stepped away from this thread for a week or so, but I was actually back at the site preparing Lake Leaky for her repair!! Installing and pumping her out with a natural siphon, which is another whole interesting thread I would like to do. I have plenty of pictures!! Concerning ALL of your advice, I was successfully in business for myself (Manufacturing/Wholesale to the Home Center industry) for 30 years and was very fortunate in my businesses early growth years to have had 2 very important older gentlemen in my life who mentored me for years and kept my business (and personal) decision making on the right track. One was my first building landlord, who I guess needed to make sure I could pay him each month!!! And the other was my father-in-law, who just wanted to make sure I was successful so I could provide for his daughter!!! But all joking aside, trust me when I say, I seek out and value experience and advice from those who have been there and done that!! Listening to smart and experienced people like all of you, is exactly why I am very fortunate to have a "Lake Leaky" and the "Big Boy Toys" to play with trying to fix it!! As I said, I was back at the site all last week and in looking it over again, the "benching" of the trench in stages is definitely on the table now. In fact, it will not require that much benching, only on the crown of the hill, due to the gentleness of the uphill sloping. So basically, very little DEEP digging. In answering some of the questions brought up, NO, it wont disrupt or be a problem "robbing" water from someone elses drainage downstream, as it all drains to the same place on my property, even after passing through Lake Leaky. The size pipe will be either 12" or 15". No need for a larger diameter, as our plan is to build a sufficient size dam in the source ravine at the intake so the water can just pool up and then drain out into the lake at whatever pace it wants to. Basically like a water retention pond which is now required in almost all developments here in the south. RANDY88 , thank you for your very valuable insight and information. But I would like to hear your reasoning or purpose for the 90 degree turn at the start of the intake drainage. Thanks again to everyone and we will work safe and smart!! But first priority is making sure Lake Leaky becomes "Lake Tight as a Frogs Ass"!!!
FYI: My original post is also under GENERAL INDUSTRY QUESTIONS. That is where I was answering some questions, such as pipe diameter, and was I robbing water from someone downstream!! Sorry for any confusion.
DM22, I have no real idea as to what direction your coming into the valley with your pipe, around here, we use intakes for allowing water into the tile or pipe whatever term you want to use for the line, the reason for my idea was this, we usually come up the hollow or ravine so to speak, and then set the intake 90 degrees to the line and then build a small berm or terrace and that way the water's no quite so likely to follow the line down the hill around the pipe, the water has to pool and literally change direction to follow the line, now if your going into the ravine from across the side of the hill and your line is already 90 degree's to the waters natural flow of the valley, then your fine, again I was just guessing by your description you gave. Also when using intakes, your line is in the ground about 4 feet at the berm, so take that into account when figuring your elevation difference between the intake end and the outlet end of the line. I'm not sure by your post if your planning on using an intake or not, I'd recommend using one, and not just an open line coming into the berm for the water to go down, like some use as an intake on ponds, again this depends on how much depth the water will be in the berm for the intake. I didn't catch the perf pipe thing, but I'd use solid tubing, never perf for this application, otherwise if for some reason you have a plugged outlet or extreme pressure in the line, it'll wash the dirt away from around the pipe when it actually pressurizes the line and forces the water out through the perforations and liquify the dirt around the pipe, I've seen them literally walk the pipe out of the ground and spit it out on top the ground as it blows the structure out with it. I'm not sure what type of laser or measuring instrument your using, but if you don't have your question answered about the level laser and how to use it to do this job, let me know, I'll attempt to talk you through it, but be prepared, it gets complicated and using a slope laser is far easier and faster and less chance to make a mistake.
Randy88, yes, we are coming in at 90 degrees to the drainage valley. And as previously mentioned, a dam or berm of adequate size will be constructed ACROSS the ravine bottom to pool or hold all of the water until it discharges out (90 degrees) through the pipe. Our plan is to NOT make a fixed intake. The point at which the pipe will begin is relatively flat in the ravine bottom, and it is at that elevation the bottom of the pipe will be set. In other words the pipe bottom or opening is going to be resting on the ravine bottom and then be sloped accordingly as it is dug into the hill. We will take your very valuable advice and put in a plate or "anti-seep" collar about 25 feet or so into the hill or after we have at least 5 or 6 feet of fill over the pipe. Concerning the pipe opening, we already have plans to install a metal guard out in front of and over the top of the intake pipe to prevent critters from getting in AND to prevent debris from clogging it up. This is a dry valley and only gets water runoff in a significant rain. I have purposely went into the ravine during a very heavy extended rain period to see the flow rate through the valley. It had just a good steady flow of water that I believe a 12" or 15" pipe will handle easily. The "Perforated" pipe comment was brought up in the General Industry's Questions section. I am still perplexed as to why it was brought up???? WHY would someone even entertain using perforated pipe in the first place for a water "redirecting" situation???? Hell, i'm looking for all the water i can get, not looking to lose some along the way!!!! I will be using a laser level. It does not have the sloping feature. After reading everyone's comments about that subject, I think our best option using what we have will be to just keep positioning the lazer to where we can shoot each end of the pipe as it is put in place. Each section of pipe is 24 feet long. My goal is "approximately" 1/4" of slope per foot. But for ease of calculations on each shot, at every 24 feet, we just need to make sure each elevation shot is at least 6 inches LOWER than the previous shot. Does that make sense? Please keep in mind this is not a critical or inspection required project. As long as the slope has some downhill fall, we will be good. HOWEVER, as I said earlier, I love experienced advice and I WILL SPEAK with you if this gets complicated. Thanks for the offer!!
As mentioned before DM22, if you can calculate the total fall between the inlet and outlet, then divide that by 24' you will know how much to drop each pipe joint. You should be steep enough to make fine adjustments as you come close to your final joint. Just make sure that you always have a bit of slope on each joint and never have a reverse slope or you will encounter an air lock. Have fun and be safe!
A bit off topic but I wonder how my Dad would perceive all this ''fancy'' stuff.He used to brag that with his $4K old David White he could pin point the balls on a gnat at 1,000' and he would bust my balls for not trying to be as ''accurate.''I never wanted to use or inherit[I do still have it and others after he passed] his transit so one time on a sewer main using my little $200 or so level,after I ran app. 300' of 8'' SDR,he comes over unannounced,does the 10 minute[chasing the regular level bubble plus the bullseye one around--fun]typical DW setup--tells me AND the city's engineer that I'm off.The engineer says ''by how much?'' My Dad--''he's off by 1/4'',if this was my job it would be perfect.'' Engineer walked away laughing and I could only shake my head.True story.Miss my Dad.
DM22, sorry for the confusion on the pipe installation, I didn't know what direction you line was coming into the valley at. As for why some would do perf pipe, you'd be surprised what some do the first time till they find out what happens over time. As for your laser level and having to use then a rod and receiver and do the math, we've done plenty of what your doing with nothing more than a hand level and my made up stick to check with, take a couple of straight boards, about 12 feet long, set them on edge, and the top one being level, and the lower one being on grade you set up,screw them together with some boards to keep them the right distance apart, just do the math as to how much lower one end needs to be than the other, and when your on grade, your hand level is level on the top board, using the bottom board to determine if your trench bottom is flat as you go,it'll look like a small wedge shape when done, just a suggestion to simplify the operation some, do as you please. About your pipe inlet end, I've done them as you described, but quit them years back, not telling you what to do, just telling you why I quit doing them that way, so don't take it the wrong way. We prefer the intakes for several reasons, first the main line is in the ground at least 3-4 feet, allowing one to clean the berm out without worrying about hitting the main line, and also by having the line deeper than the open end starting at ground level, it seems to not wash the line out as badly over time, and also it gives the opportunity to stack intakes with smaller holes on the bottom and larger towards the top, to allow dirt to settle in the basin and not go directly into the line, as the dirt depth gets deeper you can add to the top, if with an open pipe, either you have a basin that's lower to hold some water before going into the pipe and is alway wet, or silted in or all dirt goes into the line, not allowing settle out. Also with an open line, if or when the water depth gets deeper than the line, or gets clogged up with debris, you have a smaller total surface area for water to go into the line, with an intake, the surface area is greater, around the entire line, times more depth of intake. If water would ever go over the line, it'll create a swirl affect to get into the line, along with air needed, the largest problem we've seen with just an open ended line is debris floating over the line plugging it up, the total surface area on an intake helps to solve some of this, whats the difference, to the contractor nothing, to the owner, a lot, meaning if it plugs with debris, it'll wash out the berm and cause line problems, causing the owner to have to redo the upper end of the project, keeping in mind your close in elevation to the anti seep collar when needing to redo the berm, rather than buried deeper with an intake. The other big problem we see is in order for the line to not crush, you need at least 3 feet of dirt over the line, on the outlet end its not a big deal, people tend to remember its shallow, that and its usually wet and they stay away form the outlet end it seems, but when working with any equipment on the intake end, someone always ends up forgetting its too shallow to carry any weight and ends up getting crushed by something, a tractor, dozer, excavator, skid steer or whatever. Again, do as you please.
Randy88, all good points and well taken. Dirt washing into the pipe is a factor to consider. Would you by any chance have pictures of the INTAKES you suggest? Also, great idea on the 12' straight edge boards and a level. I totally get that and how it works. However, I do not want to put anyone at risk going into the ditch and risk cave ins. Even with the amount of benching I have to do, the ditch will still be to deep to risk going into. So I will do the extended stick and receiver. I just happen to have a very light weight 1 1/4" aluminum pipe 16" long. So I will attach it to my regular surveying stick with the receiver on it.
Hi there, I came across this forum by chance.I have a small company in New Zealand ,and we specialise in civil and construction products which includes a range of laser and machine control instruments.An inexpensive solution may be as simple as a smart level with a laser pointer which will give you percentage and degrees as the distance isn't great.If you have Robotoolz in the states,they do a very simple manual grade laser which has vials for set up and would be suitable for short range of 3-400ft.These are rotating and come with reciever,and you can do a manual offset in 2 axis.The model is an RT3620-2.Either of these might give you a quick fix without too much cost.
There is nothing wrong with the old equipment, and accurate as can be. I have seen survey points in the forest that were put there in the days of older transits and chains that are dead on. Today gps is still non-functional in a forest, and a total station is very time consuming as you have to turn so many times and at the end of the day tying back into an original point many busts occur.
DM22, just google or look up the website, hickenbottominc.com and you should get to their website, there are some others out there too, precision intakes is another, they come in three pieces, a t shaped bottom that hooks to the line, and a middle section that has smaller holes in it that's buried in the ground to the top of it, and the top which has larger holes in it that stands up above the ground. Now they can be sawed off at whatever height you want to really, hickenbottoms have a place to cut the sections in half, whereas precision intakes every six inches there's a place to cut them and they'll still fit together. Some others are out there too, I'd avoid the steel ones, only use those made of three pieces of plastic, that way when something snaps the top off, you can just put it back in, with the steel one's, they are one piece and when you or something else bends them or hits them, you have to dig the entire thing up to replace it or fix it. The government only approved of the steel intakes in my area for decades for terracing projects, and every farmer everywhere hates the metal one's with a passion, replacing the metal one's with plastic three piece units have been job security for many years.
DM22, I know its not my business, but curiosity is getting to me on this question, if your putting in that large of line in the first place, your at the bottom of the drainage area anyhow, why not just do the cut through the hill, use the fill from the cut to use as a ditch plug in the valley your diverting water from and forget the line completely.
Randy88, per you first post, I will go look at the INTAKE websites. Thanks for that info. Hey ........it is "your business", cause I am asking you to get involved!!! Beggars cant complain. No offense taken here at all! Concerning just cutting a ditch, the "HILL" that we are ditching through is actually a large food plot that parallels the lake. So my deer would not be happy with me if I cut a permanent ditch through their dinner table!!! Plus, it also has an access road on top of it that is a main access to other parts of the property. So then I would have to build a bridge. And it would need to be able to handle my 160 Excavator on down. Thanks for your input.
DM22, Ok, I understand now, if there's anything else I can help you with, let me know.
Thanks Randy, you have been a great help already.
randy88, thanks for the tip on the precision inlets. I have long thought the hickenbottom design was a pain because the height was never right. Cutting every 4 or 6 inches too much sense. If learning tips and tricks is your thing, this website is the place to be!
Sorry Randy88, one more question. Why do you suppose the available INTAKES you suggested are only limited to smaller diameter pipes? I looked at the sites you recommended, and I think I only saw one company with a diameter of up to 12" max. What is being used in larger diameter pipe situations? I am thinking of using a 15" pipe for my drainage project.