The next machine I need to buy to take my business to the next level is a larger excavator. Currently I am running a 6 ton mini. A lot of what I end up doing is cutting in house pads, septic systems, walk out basement cuts, lots of rock hammering, clearing of large junipers, and some smaller demolition jobs. Current transport setup is 10 wheeler with tandem tag. Something that I could use to get into smaller commercial projects would be a plus as well. The following criteria are what I am looking for: Reasonably transportable Hammer work Easy to work on / mechanical injection etc. Ability to work on tighter sites such as 1/3 acre lots occasionally So far I have been considering machines from the 120 - 200 size classes. 120 seems too small for what I want to do, but then the 200 is so big you need permits to transport. Currently interested in Komatsu and Deere mostly, but would consider a Cat if the right deal came along. Also, how many hours is "low" for this size of machine? Looking to buy something older without electronics with cash, because of the uncertain future. Currently looking at a PC150 in very nice shape with 2800 original hours for $80,000 private sale. Price seems high, but usually I see pieces of junk with 9000 hours for $60,000 plus tax. Any advice for this young guy is appreciated. Thanks, Keith
I'd stick with the 8.5' wide machines, for easy hauling/ no signs / no permits. The 9' wide ones aren't bad, except you are over your tandem tag and getting a new three axle trailer. I am really fond of the 120 and two axle combo I use. If I had to have more, then that particular job had better have the overhead to pay for a rental.
A 12 tonner can punch well above its weight with a good operator on it
How does a 120 compare to a 150 or 200 in terms of reach? A lot of times I work by myself and I can’t have a dozer or loader running at the same time to shuttle dirt, so reach is a big factor.
I think the 160 size is about right for what you want to do (which is similar to myself). The long stick 160 is within 6" of a 210 in reach (Case/Linkbelt numbers), yet you don't have the transport issues. Capacity of course is a little lower verse the 210 but it can get you through what you want to do unless you need 200 capacity for craning. I think with the 120 verse a 160, you might as well have as much machine as you can. Transporting between the two is essentially the same, yet you get more reach and capacity with a 160 than a 120.
Arizona follows the federal axle limits of 34,000 per two axles, and a 160 will but you way over that. That is why the 120 and at most the 135 is doable with your current trailer. https://oversize.io/regulations/axle-weight-calculator/arizona
Yes, transport is the biggest concern of mine. Transport on the 160 would be the same as the 120 as long as I had a tridem trailer but I have a tandem trailer. However the 160 doesn’t require permits and isn’t over width. I would have to hire transport on the 160 until I got a hydraulic tail trailer or a tridem tag.
Yes, that is an option. New 160's ship with 8'10" track assemblies. https://www.deere.com/en/excavators/mid-size-excavators/160g-excavator/
Got it, so a new 160 is 4" over width. https://www.deere.com/assets/pdfs/c...excavators-mid-size-c-series-120c-160c-lc.pdf The C models are offered with a 8' 6" overall width with 24" track shoes. Sky, I know you have a 120, what is your overall review of the machine in terms of reliability and production? I really want to stick with equipment I can haul behind my 10 wheeler and tandem tag, but I understand if I have to upgrade that. I think some of these Deeres are interesting https://pciheavyequipment.com/product/2012-deere-120d-excavator/ https://pciheavyequipment.com/product/2012-deere-160d-lc-excavator/ The 160D is $10,000 more than the 120D
Might not be what you are looking at but I am a big believer in zero/reduced swing excavators. We run 2 - a '11 321DLCR with around 8K hrs on the clock and a '18 325FL with around 4K on the clock. The 321 has been a far more reliable machine overall, we purchased it with less than 2K on the clock. Haven't had any issues with the reduced radius machines except for the blower motor for the A/C in the 321 which is under the seat - that was a bitch. Overall what a compact radius machine can do for us is worth any trade offs we've experienced. The JD 135 is a nice machine. If it were a perfect world we'd be running 315 CR's and 335 CR's. That's why the 55K CR machines fit the bill for what we do but come with the burden of hiring transport on a lowboy. We have to be able to lift at least 15K lbs on occasion. This week we have an ADS Barracuda water quality unit to set that is around 15k which the 325 will handle easily with bucket off.
the 160 can do more things farther away. As far as slinging bucket, they will load the truck in about the same time, with the same 4' cleanup bucket. If you plan your work well, the 120 will not be a liability IMO over a 160. Places where it matters: 1)Dragging a trench box for production pipe. A 160 is really minimum, and with my 120 I can do it but it is way more miserable. If I were bidding sewer main I'd have a no thumb 200. 2) setting jersey barrier on the highway. I have done it with 200, 250, and a 160. The 160 did it OK and was easy to haul back off the freeway. The 120 would not do it safely. 3) setting really large structures. 6000# is what you can expect from a 120 to a usable height. a 6000# road plate will have you light over the side about halfway out.
CM you are talking apples to pomegranites
So, 10K more for the excavator, now figure your resale on the tandem trailer and the price of a decent used 3 axle for the true cost to you. It may well be worth it for you. I know I like the heck out of 160's too.
Thanks CM and Sky. Sounds like I should be looking at 120-135 size machines. Mobilization is a huge factor in my business. I am not completely established in my hometown here yet, so often I have to haul an hour each way to jobs. I am not looking to branch out to civil work, so it sounds like the advantages the 160 has over the 120 are negligible. The temptation is real though to get a larger machine because of how much more iron you get for just a little bit more in purchase price. Not interested in the problems that come along with having another tractor to register and insure along with the lowboy, or the tire scrub and poor maneuverability with a tri axle tag.
they are relative pigs to get turned around. the tandem is downright sporty in comparison. Look at it this way: What do you do it with now? Move up to a 120 class and if you manage to outgrow that on a regular basis, you will have accomplished something Keep in mind you can always rent a big iron when it really warrants it, and bid accordingly. If the money is only good enough to support your own machine and not a rental, then you are giving your iron away already. You do not have enough meat on the bone to pay for a breakdown, let alone profit. Remember, the rental machine breakdown is not your problem.
Nice setup. Looks like it would take every bit of the 25' deck I have.
that is a 22 I believe. No fixed porch all tilt.
Also, another factor with the 160. NPK says I can run a 2500lb breaker on the 120 or the 160. So if I did upgrade later, the breaker would be interchangeable. So the 160 doesn't have that much on a 120 in terms of hammering.
That is true. When they are done with this 120 I will take it home of they offer it right to me.
Just an observation, but I notice there are so many more 120's available in the PNW than other parts of the states.
I see that all the time too. I can hardly find a crawler loader for sale out west, but go to the middle of the country and dmiller and others are using them all the time. Iron is regional in nature. CM1995 talks about his remote control roller and I have never seen one out here. We have big diesel sleds and sometimes two drum rollers, but not the remote rigs.
is that your setup? very nice!
Grande. Do you have a hammer set up?
A 120 is rare here as the 160/315 sized machine is more popular in that size. What I see the majority of the time is a 320 sized 55K machine conventional or CR on residential and light commercial jobs. Sky it still amazes me ya'll don't have trench rollers out in WA, does it have to do with the granular soil? A large plate compactor does a better job on granular materials but a little sheepsfoot Wacker trench roller does very well in clay. They can be a PITA sometimes to keep running but handier than a shirt pocket when they do. It helps if you have 2 trench rollers so you can have one that's operational.
Keith, I'd team your new excavator up with the 6 ton so you can leave the hammer on the little one. You'll be pleased at what rock you can just rip with a 120 sized machine, and I would try a 2' bucket with tiger teeth on it to test your rock. If it is favorable, get somebody to fabricate you a single tooth ripper on an adapter for the bigger machine. you might get to pick apart stuff you have to hammer now. Just a thought, and with the price of a 2500 pound hammer (!!!!!) you have some wiggle room for extra buckets and things.
Yes, I have a 2' bucket. 42" bucket, 72" clean out and an Epiroc 3000 pd hammer.
Does anyone have an opinion on FRD breakers? Dealer is offering a new FRD 175 3000lb class breaker for $38,000 out the door, which seems pretty fair. I have been a big NPK fan for a while, but have heard good things about FRD. This hammer apparently doesn’t have the 4 through bolts which is unusual…