Hello, I need a good 6 way blade dozer for driveways, knocking down dirt on fill sites, slopes, finish work, house sites, covering pipe, ballfields, and general small jobs. I also do clearing in conjunction with a 320c excavator. I had a Cat d5G on lease a few years ago and loved it. But, I didnt keep it long enough to know the long term. I am looking at the BIG PICTURE. We keep our equipment a long time. I would like to buy used. I optimally would like an EROPS cab but I may sacrifice if the price is right. I may want rippers on rear. I like the serviceability of the d6n size dozer with the high drive design but that may be overkill. I have always preferred Cat products for the BIG PICTURE due to getting mechanics to work on them...parts availability, aftermarket parts availability, research and development, operator familiarity, loan value, wix filters, hoses...etc... Power isnt everything as I have been on many strong Horsepower komatsu dozers that seemed to fall apart after 4000 hours compared to Deere and Cat. It is easy to turn up the fuel screw but in the BIG PICTURE...I want long term reliability and ease of repair and profits. But, I am willing to keep an open mind.... What would be the hour limit when buying a used machine of this size? % of undercarriage in comparison to price? I will be running this in steeper areas in Georgia Clay with occasional Any tips? Thanks so much.
You need something big enough to do the work that you intend to do. If a smaller D5G will do the work, go with that. A smaller machine has its place, especially on tight, smaller jobs. You also mention a D6N. Of course, the D6N can do a larger volume of work in a given time than can a D5G. But if you want to do a really large volume of work, a D6 has its limits too. One thing that is nice about a smaller, lighter machine has to do with the ease of moving it around. Depending on how it is equipped,a D6N can weigh near 40,000 lbs. A D5G with ripper may weigh about 23,000 lbs. A D5G can fit on a lighter trailer, and you may even be able to legally pull it with a heavy duty one ton truck with just electric brakes. For the heavier machine, you need a gravel truck with a pintle hitch or a semi-trailer unit.
I have a lowboy and tractor that is limited to a d7 at max. I also have a 10 wheeler with trailer. I need a 6 way Dozer in the d5k to d6n size. The footprint seems to be similar except the price, horsepower , weight and production. Which Dozer is the money maker on house sites, driveways, moderate clearing , slopes , and pipe coverage for a small contractor. I have a d6d with 12 foot angle blade with rippers for straight line bull power pushing. Thanks !
The old Cat d6d with angle blade & ripper Understand what your saying Mountainmover . I'm kind of in the same dilemma . Our dozers are in the 35,000 to 70,000 lb range with strait & simi u blades . We use a skid loader with over the tire tracks & farm tractors for smaller grading tasks . At times I can see where a 25,000 lb dozer with the 6 way blade would be a handy rig .
The D5G/K size machine will make more clear money than a 6N size on residential jobsites etc. When it comes to larger projects or commercial work you need the bigger machine.
Wix filters?
two totally different class machines between a D5G/K and a D6N.......for the work you describe the D5 g/k outa work......if i was torn between those two classes though i would probably look for a D5M ....or if i wanted to spend less $ a D4H....those are nice midpoint machines.........in the D5G size range Deere makes some good machines you might look at
Steering clutches , hystat, or diff steer ? Thanks. You are right. So the d6m is finger tip steering. Any diff steer option on the m ? I used to like the d4h . Is it possible to find one that not worn out now? The d4h was replaced by the d5m right ? I like the fine hystat control of the d5g or k. But no weight behind it's ass in pushing! What prices am I looking at for new and used of each? What hours on machine are exceptable? And Deere.... Should I shy from that unless it's 650g or newer? They don't have a heavy class like the d6n really do they ? I like the controls... I'm just not so sure of lasting as long as a cat .. Or being rebuilt for a second life like a cat... Or mechanic familiarity or aftermarket parts availability. Thanks!
I own a D4H and Brother in law has a D5M......both are 30K# machines with cab n ripper....D4 a little less ..D5 Little more..Neither are Diff steer...both are "hand/fingertip" controls...both will do a LOT of work for the cost.....we do a lot of finish work with them...both are precise machines...if your going to knock down BIG dirt piles bigger will aways be better... If you got to have diff steer then neither will work for you.....you can find these machines in good shape between 24k-35k depending on options/hrs etc.. so far ours both have been flawless performers requiring only std maintenance 3000-5000hrs, I am not up on Deere but hear a lot of raving about this size machine
the big picture of ownership I do not mean to intentionally pick on john deere. I am a fan of many of their products. But, i just recall things like 750's and 850's not lasting as long as d6 cats in the big picture. but, they were nice to operate when they were near new. I also remember some dresser/international products being difficult to work on....leaks....having take out engines to get to starters...weird stuff. All machines models and brands have their advantages.....I know this. I did sit on a pretty nice 650h deere dozer. it was pretty nice in a way...in comparison to the d5g....pretty equal...different balace points...but pretty close....but the K model seemed to step it up a notch in the light dozer field. I am lost in the world of Komatsu. some things seem nice..some things are a pain in the ***. I am north of Atlanta so i guess i could get parts...but that's a gamble. I know the excavators are popular here...but not dozers or anything else. I have always noticed that a Komatsu seems to always make their machine one small notch larger than a cat of standard size. Fuel is turned slightly up and performance i pretty impressive...but 7000 hours later.....night and day with the Cat still seeming to be rebuildable and tight and worth the rebuild. but i wanna keep an open mind.....
I have an first gen D5KXL. I love mine ! Bought it new. I use mine in the same capacity as your requirement in your original post. In these areas this machine in my opinion is perfect. It can handle bigger jobs with common sense and good operating technique. Just depends who's in the seat.
Price Yes. What do you think as improved on the d5k over the d5g? I liked the vibrating blade..balance as a little better. Seemed to have more room for me as I am 6,3. A little faster blade and revved faster. Blade cut a little better. What did yours cost new? What year? Thanks?
Good visibility to the cutting edge. To me it feels heavier wether it is or not i dont know. I like being able to adjust blade response speed along with the steering. Most of all the controls. The thumb wheel that controls the blade angle / windrow is what's nice. To me the final drives even look bigger. Maybe ?? Depending on the job , I take the time to adjust blade tilt for the job. Plus it helps to keep an edge on the blade bits. I also like the blade shaker but I have to remember not to use it with a laser receiver on the blade. It will THROW IT off the blade. :duh By the way , it's a wide load in my neck of the woods. At least that's what the Trooper and a $ 1200.00 ticket said. Banghead Mine is 2008. Cost in the middle $130's. sweeps , screens , rippers , cab, stereo ,air ride seat. One of the first ones sold in Oklahoma.
** Sounds like a nice dozer. What made you choose the Cat over the Deere or Komatsu? I LOVE the Tilt knob. Saves the wrist. Overwidth? Really? And that was with it angled on the trailer? Wow....$130,000.00+. So what does a machine like this get an hour? What is the economics of that hourly charge? Fuel cost per hour...operator cost...etc.. I think we all need to go up on our hourly rates. If some tech jobs are bringing 20-30 per hour just for a persons time...and we buy..insure...maintain...haul...repair...pay taxes on...interest...and operate a machine that only gets marginally more for the machine plus operator. AND FUEL. How are we really making anything in the end? Being an operator takes years and years of experience. Just as being a pilot..... I imagine that a d5m or d5n...or d4h might push more dirt in a straight line. But, maneuverability is one advantage of the d5g and d5k. But what do you think of the hydrostatic long term durability versus steering clutches or diff steer? cost? and that undercarriage? the advantage of a transmission versus no transmission...but an expensive hydrostatic pump? thanks!
That size machine gets 90$ per hour around here. D6T or D65EX gets about 150$. Hydro versus clutch brake , hydro stays much cleaner , the standard trans generates clutch material in the fluid. That could take weeks to hash out which is better. I do know of many 953 , 963 with over 15000 hrs that were serviced correctly that have not been touched. I think from what I've seen the D5K and 953 D finals look to be the same and I wonder what else could be the same. If in fact the D5K shares the same hydro as a 53 , that's one tough s.o.b. for sure. I have an 07 Komatsu D39EX-21A , I just bought it , so far so good. The operators station is very comfortable and controls are nice as well. I liked the 6 cylinder engine in the D5G , don't know much about the 5K 4 cylinder.
So the komatsu d39 is in the range of the d3 cat dozer? the radiator is still in the front correct? i see quite a few of those lately. nice reviews on that dozer. $90 isn't enough! looking at the economics....once a payment is made, tax, fuel, operator, repair, replacement of engine/uc/trans/etc... down the road... etc...what does that leave for an owner of the machine in profits? It could only make sense if we had a contract for ever day for 5 years........ i wonder how the 4 cylinder in the d5k works out in regards to the old d5g 6 cylinder? i would think it has to work harder? but has more turbo boost? does that mean shorter life span? I wonder why the larger high drive cat dozer do not use the hydrostatic system as the small dozers do? i know that quick maneuverability isnt as much needed....but is the straight line bull pushing strength lost in a hystat system in comparison to a steering clutch torque convertor system?
Local grade contractors here only getting $110/hour D6H, about the same for large tracked skid loaders, Excavators bring in higher dollar at near to $190/hour but then the hours cut back in comparison work to a dozer or loader as to time on site. Most here tie in a fuel surcharge as a topper for the machines, fuel being the major expense day to day.
Hours What size of excavators get what per hour in your area ? I'd be better off with an older d6h than a newer expended d6t for just. $150 per hour. Lol. My later model d6d is in tight good shape and will push the crap out if dirt in a straight line and for a same cost. But, the newer the machine... The more your operators like it...the less breakdown...the better fuel consumption (sometimes). And the more impressed customers are ..... I'm having a hard time deciding by looking at cat d5k / d5g versus older d5m or d6m or d4h. Seems as though straight line pushing is the only advantage to a high track finish Dozer. And long term durability and rebuildability. Economically...for $90 per hour.......gosh idk.
Actually the D39 is comparable to the D5G/K , Case 850 K/L , Deere 650 , Dressta TDM10. The radiator is in the front on my machine the next model the -22 has the rear mounted radiator. Basically all else is the same underneath. I do bid jobs where I make better on the hour , not very often. To be honest there really isn't a large profit in custom dozing work. Commercial type work I do better not much.
I have an '04 D5G bought new with almost 4500 hours. It's been a great tractor, other than maintenance and wear items, only replaced the thermostat. A/C is still the coldest of any machine in the "fleet". I use the term "fleet" generously. It's a comfortable dozer to run, good at cutting grade - although a little light in the rear end but you compensate for that. If you set up slots it can move some material but it's a better load spreader and finish grade machine. The machine cost close to $130K new back then.:cool2 The hourly rate is $95 and you can make money at that. The tractor doesn't beat itself to death if you use it for what it's designed for. It's a fuel sipper and can run 2 days on a tank of fuel pushing tandem/tri loads out, stripping topsoil and finish grading. I expect to get 10K hours of it with proper maintenance before major repairs. It's the machine of choice for grading pads, stripping topsoil, spreading topsoil and cutting sub grade for drives, roads and parking lots. I don't clear with it but I would like to get a root rake for clean up. A 953 is a much better choice for clearing and grubbing, that machine coupled with a 320 is a tree clearing combo.
I say d11r lol.. what is the exact needs for the dozer? I would imagine the best choice would be the cheapest to operate that can accomplish the job as in the d4.
the use. who is best at financing? the actual use is that i already have a straight blade d6 for hard pushing. but, i need a versatile dozer for finish grade, driveways, building pads and ballfields, slope walking, knocking down dirt in fill areas, light clearing with a root rake in conjunction with an excavator, and general grading use. the d6n or d6t is unbelievably expensive! wow! 300k plus? jesus. who can pay that off? i have a lot of experience on a dozer. slot dozing...hitting it with the corner to knock it down on same grade beside pile....fluffing the brush and shaking the dirt loose....using the corner bit to leave ripple marks in a steep slope that i cant back drag or blade....etc... using the end bit to trim a valley in a straight line and walking it down with the tracks...etc... i had a d5g on lease one time in past. liked it. but in some sense i wish it was more in some aspects when pushing across a long area. the joystick is super nice. but is it really less ownership cost then a used d5m or d6m or d4h or competitor brand? we usually work on our own stuff except for engine rebuilds or transmission rebuilds. i like cat when it comes to working on it....some brand scare me because of lack of repair easability design. i also like the aftermarket parts choice. i like that mechanics that i hire are most familiar with the cat stuff. i like the fast parts availability. resale. loan to value ratio at the bank. speaking of bank....i have no bank connections after the collapse. how does one buy a used machine from an individual? sales tax? state tax? interest rates? id like a good finance company that understands rainy weather and winter time. i would also like some kind of "pay in advance" option to head off the winter payments! seems like when i pay in advance...i still have a payment due each month regardless!
Primary machines the locals use are either Hyundai(unsure series) Cat 320 series and Deere 270 series. There are larger units around but are kept for major dirt removals or pipeline service, DKG grading uses a 3 yard bucketed unit for large dirt removal jobs either a 350 or 360 series and HUGE.
standard machines the standard machines here seem to be a cat 320 size excavator, or a 345 or 400 komatsu for loading articulated trucks. a cat 330 for pipe jobs. a cat d6 for strong pushing. a d5k or 650 jd for finish grade and small jobs. a 450 john deere for really small jobs. i have no idea what the 345 or 400 komatsu is charging per hour as i usually use a 320 or 225blc size machine mostly. i may rent a larger excavator in a contract but never by the hour. i sure would like to know though. i had no idea a d39 was a cat d5k size dozer. i was assuming the number 3 was in relation to a cat d3 like in the old days. maybe the d39 is a better machine than the caterpillar?
whoah! so i just looked at the prices of komatsu d39 dozers on machinery trader dot com. wayyy cheaper! no bad. if that is comparable or better than the cat d5k dang...might be worth buying. so they are hydrostatic too huh?
The D39EX models are hydrostatic. I was told to stay away from the early models, the later models have the komstat 2 drive which is supposed to be improved. I bought mine out of Northern Georgia at Mashburn Equipment in Ringgold. They had 2 D39 , a D5G , and a Deere 650J. All were priced under 60k. The Deere had 5800 hrs , my tractor had 3000 hrs. Since then , first of April they are all gone. They put new rails and sprockets on it for an additional 2500$ labor included which I jumped on. I had an older model D39-1 which was a clutch break machine with joystick steering , I liked it and like my Komatsu dealer , the PSR lives in my back yard , actually grows a garden on me so filters parts etc are no big deal. I think they have a hub in Atlanta. The 39 has the 4BT cummins , or they call it a komatsu engine , it is based on the 4BT with some komatsu features. I have put 150hrs on it since first week of April so far so good.
Ringgold Thanks. I know where Mashburn equipment is . Sounds like they had some deals. Were the rails and sprockets aftermarket ? I wonder what the quality was ? So the komstat means a quality design? How do you feel about the system in comparison to jd and cat hystat? A lot of Komatsu excavators in my area. Usually 200 , 300 , and 400 size. Some are great and some seem to have mysterious glitches when they 6000 hours. A few seem to last forever. I've had great luck with my cat excavators but we usually baby them and keep old and smooth operators in georgia clay. I see reviews of some Komatsu dozers having weak soft metal bit running great for 5000 hours. But maybe that's a thing of the past. I'd love to do some comparison of each machine in a dirt playground. But the picture is bigger than that in ownership. Performance doesn't always equal reliability and parts prices and maintenance. Seems as though and d5m or d6m is looking like a simple machine suitable for d5k work but better straight line pushing due to the weight.
You said you were looking for a machine to do residential work , the D5D/K size machine is suited well for that , the 5M or 6M will push more in a straight line , its about weight and Personally I don't care for a clutch brake machine now , if you went for a 6N I would get a diff steer machine. I don't care what brand it is it costs money to repair them . Certain parts are more expensive then comparable parts for the others. Its like this as well most zero turn mowers use parker hydraulics . I'm sure some of these machine use parts made in the same factory. The biggest difference I see between Cat and Komatsu in a 10 ton machine is the u/c. The cat will outlast the komatsu by 1000 hrs typically. The rest to me are apples to apples. I like any brand machine , what it says on the side makes me no mind as long as it makes me $. That is the big picture. A 6N diff steer machine will hit you 75 up to 300 grand. As far as a simple to work on machine , the D6D is about as easy as it gets. They are one of the best mid size machines ever built. Deere pretty much owns the market from the 850 size ( D6T) down . I would have a Deere any day. I even think the Case 850 L is a really improved machine. I know the first K models had hydro problems , but like I said so did the first D39Ex. If they ever made the 5N a hydro or diff steer that would be one hell of a machine , Deere has the 700 , Komatsu has the D51EX. Look at a D51EX-22. That's a fine machine.
Why does Komatsu u/c lasts 1000 hours less? Thanks! You make a lot of sense. So why is it that Komatsu undercarriage lasts 1000 hours less? That's a big difference. Is this due to poor design or due to weaker metal in uc parts? Once the original uc is replaced....does Komatsu still last 1000 less than cat when both machines are fitted with the same brand uc? I bought some caterpillar extreme service wet salt tracks got my d6d and they have lasted tremendously amazingly great! Still has big high grosser and thick rails 10 years later! A lot of weird aftermarket uc on other dozers we have had lasted poorly. I'm not sure what aftermarket brand is as good as cat. Anyone know? So you think a Deere 650h or newer will beat a cat d5g or d5k in all aspects? I do hear that many people like the deere...... D6 and up.... I would most definitely be afraid to buy anything but cat! Any d6d we ever had was tough as hell. Of course, they aren't for fancy finish work and the blade response is slow..... I can run the crap out of a d6d but hiring people....the can be lazy whiners and they want a light finish tractor with joystick that spins in bulk pushing and they skin the ground pretty.... But they aren't really moving very much dirt... It's kinda like they are. "Trimming and rolling " dirt. I'd rather bulk the dirt with the big Dozer and finish grade with the small tractor afterwards.. This generation....oh my. You are right.... The high drive design with hystat would be a lethal dozer. I love a high drive design. Stays clean and backs up well. It looks as though cat is gonna introduce this electric drive system in other models. The d7e is a flat track design. Would be nice to fit that to the high drive models but I'm sure there is no economical need once transmissions are not needed... And final drives simplified. A high drive would still help isolate the pressure on final drives with the electric motors and make access to the electrical components and generator easier by sliding it rear ward out the back on a tray with only wires and a few bolts to undo! Back to finish tractors. On machinery trader dot com.....the Komatsu d39 and similar are cheap, had the Deere is pretty cheap on comparison to the d5g and d5k. Dramatically. Experience in my cat equipment tells me that cat parts are not actually more expensive than other brands but rather more available, cheaper or equal, and aftermarket is more available and is even cheaper! The initial price of a cat machine is what seeks to cost more with the greater return being in the ownership maintenance phase. Pay now or later I suppose. But they all must compete in the new market. So what do you guys think of a Deere 650g compared to a d5g or d5k vs Komatsu similar? But heck.... I'm not to lazy to run a d4h size high drive for finish work if I could find a right unit with low hours. Heavy duty machine but small! The problem with that Dozer is that it's called a d4 but it's really like a d5m and people only wanna pay a d4 price! How do you get around that? What model of d4h is best? Should I get an lgp or just xl? I'm in northeast georgia. I need to be able to walk loose dirt slopes in regards to the lgp part... For finish work but a big lgp d4 kinda takes up a lot of space in driveways!
Same as a D5M with the weight and more horsepower than early D6's..... When a potential customer asks me what size dozer I have I simple reply with "about 30k pounds, 120 horsepower". Half the time they respond with something along the lines of "so is that like a D4 or D6?" If it makes it that far I try to explain to them the impact the letter behind the number might have on the size of the tractor. For example a D5 could be anywhere from 20k pounds to 30k+ pounds depending if its a C G H M. From what I have learned the early model (late 80's early 90's??) D4H's are not quite as big as a D5M. When shopping it would be a good idea to check the center pivot pin and bushing on the blade. Most I have seen either have the updated spherical bushing or they are a sloppy mess.
It is very hard to explain the differences. Why did the manufacturers do this to us? LOL. I am even more confused about komatsu dozer sizes now then before. Does the Deere 650h stack up against a cat d5k or d5g? I have a friend who has a 2002 Deere 650hlgp orops with new uc. what is it worth?
For smaller sized Cats (Dozers) I still like the old "flat track" I bought a D-4c on a one year lease to own and moved up to a D-5c. I was working on a slash pile when they delivered the D-5. It was funny cuz, I had to push this side, push that side with the 4 to get it where I wanted it (to burn later) and to tighten it up so it would burn better. They off-loaded the 5, I loaded up the 4 and went back to work. I could push the whole damned pile with the 5. I ended up keeping it and buying another 5 (series 3 as I recall). Nice machines, versatile, easy to move, good visibility with little fuel. I think the "G" model is flat track as well??? I am going back to the early 90's so, this probably isn't much help. Of course, the "high track" is the only way to fly with bigger dozers, what a nice ride and faster than...let's say a 46A (D-8H) or a D-8k with gobs of uck-in-pucky (power). I owned a D-7g (u-blade rippers) paid 50k for it used (of course), that Cat made me a lot of money and it was bullet proof.
Yeah they're flat track hydro machines. I've got a D5G.
Nice machines, I wish I had one here in Thailand. Even though it's hotter than hell most of the time, I think I would still do open cab, ROPS and sweeps.
I have no complaints with the machine. It's a 2003 year model bought in early 2004. Currently has 4400 +/- hours on it, all on my time (well not all my time but you know what I mean ). Had the undercarriage measured by the cat house last week, the highest worn component was the track links on the left side - worn 62%, which isn't bad for original. The pads are shot but I knew that before the inspection.:cool2 BTW - the A/C in the D5G is the coldest of all my machines..
I had the same opinion of both my D-5c's. Open cabs but good little pushers, don't remember any more the hours on them. Standard pads (back then) was 16". I ran 20" pads on mine and what a difference that makes. I put a reversible fan on my first one but, it couldn't handle the extra weight and had to take it off. Threw a lot of heat my way whilst it was on though!!