Hello. I am in the market for a small dump truck. I bought my skid a little over a year ago and used to pull it on a small equipment trailer w my hemi ram, but have recently purchased a larger deck over trailer thats weighs 7k lbs plus the skid weighs another 7k lbs. Plus i often take an extra attachment or 2. I looked at an 87 international s1600 diesel w AT dump truck. Its at a city auction online so thats kind of throwing me off a bit. Also have a Nieghbor selling i think an 89 f800 gasser MT roofing truck that dumps as well. Ppl have told me to steer clear from gassers and juice brakes but ive read about some air brake conversions? The truck will mainly tow my rig but I will occasionally carry a load. Im on a budget so I dont want to buy something I'll be fixing constantly or needs an bus engine swap for power wither. Advice greatly appreciated!
Also can anyone identify this truck?
I used to be a fleet mechanic for a S series International School Busses, the same chassis as the trucks. There were simple to work on and dependable, but iffy electrical systems. I have no idea what the part supply would be these days, but 30 years ago, most parts were available at the local auto/truck parts store with specialty items at the local dealership. Howard
Welcome to the Forums Pbz!:drinkup I would forget an air brake "conversion" on any older truck that has juice brakes - it would take more time and money than the truck would ever be worth. That Ford in the picture has air brakes and might be a diesel, it's hard to make out the badge. The older Fords like that had a DIESEL emblem underneath the 800/700/600 if they were diesel. The Ford is not a bad looking old truck other than the spoke wheels and no flip front hood. What year, how many miles and what are they asking? Personally I would never own a gas engine in anything larger than a 1 ton.
Gentlemen thank you for your words. The truck in pic is up for auction on jan 26 so i havent seen it in person. My nieghbors truck i think ill pass on then. Its sat around quite a bit a recently started leaking brake fluid after being at mechanics for a year almost. What do you guys think of this one. 89k miles no ac diesel. Battery dead but truck was running when parked last year.
My nieghbors is a 93 f700 gasser lift/dump. Currently leaking brake fluid via a sensor he says. I'll try and get pics later if rain lets up
Old IH trucks were tough and cheap and easy to fix, but as Hetkind said wiring harnesses were shaky, but with a little work could be patched up without much drama. The Fords are good trucks also but specific parts are scarce and difficult to source. My vote, year for year would be the IH every time.
Find a 88 - 98 ford f-800. Your looking for either the 7.8 ford, or a cummins preferable the 8.3, though the 5.9 is good too. Air brakes, and the 5x2 or the 7 speed trans.
I would stay away from any thing with hydraulic brakes. I work on alot of older fords and havent had a problem geting parts but i am only a hour away from a one of the bigest ford truck dealers there is. If i was in your shoes i would find a mechanic to look them over what ever he charges could save you big time. "Running when parked" and its leaking from a sensor dosent build confidence when looking at a old truck. I own some Fords and their ok but i would rather have the IH.
I was basically baptized in an IH. I've only experienced a couple flaws with the wiring on a S-series having ran 5 of them. Oil pressure gauges never work. Perfect spot on the left side of the dash next to the gauge bezel to put a 2" mechanical gauge and ¼" Aeroquip line to feed it. Headlight switches are second problem. Putting a 50 amp relay in the hot line to the lights fixes that.
Well, when they took the IH cowl chassis and converted them into school busses, all the wires were white, and tracing was the only way to solve problems...but I was young then, and inexperienced. Howard
Trucks are basically the same, only all wires are black. Good thing is, they're all numbered, so as long as you have a schematic it's a piece of cake.
numbering and a schematic would have been nice...I once asked a senior mechanic how did he troubleshot the wiring and his response was experience. Howard
Here is a Ford L8000 on Craigslist for sale http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/ctd/5403858959.html
I never heard of a powerstroke in a L series, It must be that foreign made (Brazil)? engine.
Welcome to the Forums forddieselfan. Is that your truck for sale?
It says 7.8L which is the brazilian Ford/New Holland I6, but it also says 8 cylinders, so, my guess is, it's the 7.8 6 cylinder and the lister doesn't know the difference. My question is, why a crankshaft hyd pump, like a mixer? If you're not plowing, or lifting the bed, why wear out the pump? I have fertilizer spreader trucks, and their spinners throw 60', plus it runs the conveyor in the bottom, and it doesn't use that big a pump, and runs it with a PTO.
That's how municipal trucks are set up, they run a small driveshaft through the radiator to the pump up front to power the plow and spreader. They're usually set up with a cable to engage and disengage the pump.
Thanks, Steve, for some reason I never considered a disconnectable front pump. My snow plow experience is a little limited, the last time we got enough snow for me to take a loader and clear my neighbors and my long driveways was 12/23/1989.
Thanks for the interloperish info guys... The truck wont get a ton of mileage so i am thinking of goong gasser. Maybe this c4500?
Hey, are you accusing me of being a thread hijacker!? :guns I get tired of everytime I get in the middle of a thread somebody else starts, and change the subject, I get called a hijacker. Seems like it happens 5 times a day. :beatsme This is the first time I've been called an interloper though... Gas engines powered every size truck for years, this biggest downside is fuel economy. As an extreme example, I ran an IH 1900 with an Mv404 as a spreader truck for years, burnt about 85 gallons of gas a day. I bought a 2375 with an L10 Cummins, and burnt about 30 gallons of diesel per day. Admittedly, what you want to do is nothing like that hard of duty. Would that be big enough? Despite looking bigger, that's the same weight class as an F450. To bring up an unpleasant subject, do you have a CDL?
I would think that would be a great truck for your needs your only looking at 14000 on the trailer half the capacity of a f 450 The newer fuel injected gasser in that won't get the 2 miles a gallon of the old pigs work it all day and paying for a diesel is well worth it Same thing with hydraulic brakes newer ones are light years ahead of the old style that truck probably has 4 wheel disk easy to service and get parts for The front pumps on plow trucks dont seem to wear out some of ours are air shifted others just have a ball valve to shut the suction off when you blow a hose we run them on all the and incredibly the pumps will outlast the truck That l8000 might bring 10,000 here on a very good day
Unless you're in the flatlands, I think you'll be disappointed with a gas powered truck. In addition to better fuel mileage, you just can't beat the torque of a diesel for towing and hauling. My trucks were diesels for that reason. I never put the miles on them to justify the fuel savings but I was towing or hauling better than 80% of the time. It's a much better day in a diesel. I'm not saying it can't be done but it wouldn't be my choice.
I'm in south florida so no hills or mountains. I do not have a cdl and want to avoid getting one for now. Insurance cost correlates to GVW and this truck is for sure titled as a flatbed. The ad says gas and for the price im inclined to believe it, but i havent spoken to the guy yet its owned by a tree nursery so who knows if its been well maintained. Normally i outsource the work to few guys i know with full sized dump rigs when i need alot of material brought in, but i can use this rig for removal of dirt and construction debris. I build barns too and as i said the truck wont drive enough miles to justify the difference in fuel ecenomy of a diesel. My father said the same thing as "jonas302," parts are probably easily available close by and 2003 vs 87? Thats a no brainer. I had a 05 6.0 f250 but once it started to piecof****ify i had to trade it in. Got a 2014 ram but its a 1500. Even though its a hemi with the recent purchase of this deck over trailer i need a bigger work truck.
The reason I brought up the CDL, is because to pull your 14k trailer with any truck over 12,000 lb Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, takes a class A CDL. Any truck over 26k gvwr takes a class B CDL without the trailer. Most of the trucks you have mentioned take CDL, as does the c4500 with your trailer. If you are going to do this, you might as well go get the CDL, it's not really that hard.
Word. I work locally and don't hit the highways w my rig often, but you're right i should get it. I went and saw a couple bodies today but prices were high considering the trucks. I saw this day cab and my old man is going to talk w the guy tomorrow. Throw a dump bed on there and ive got a truck for years.
Yep, those 8100s are good trucks, I've got a couple, but no way you can drive it legally w/o a CDL. It doesn't matter if you stay local, a city cop or sheriff's deputy can ruin your day. When it gets real bad is if you have an accident, even if it's not your fault.
Well said Mitch. I had the conversation today with a friend of mine that has recently entered the utility business that was looking at a 10T gooseneck to pull behind an F350. Informed him he would need a CDL driver to pull the rig as there is no safe or legal way to pull a 10T trailer without a Class A. He knows his stuff on site putting pipe in the ground but is still learning all it takes to run a business - those two things can be worlds apart..:cool2 Personally I don't see the big aversion to getting CDL, as you said it's not that hard to get and once you get it, you have it.
Yeah I'm gonna start taking practice tests and getting familiar with the manuals while i sort out a doc for a physical. Similar to your friend cm95, i am also growing my business. Im 30 and know guys who have cdl's, many of whom couldnt walk in my shoes if they tried.
Turns out my trailer weighs 4000lbs but with skid its still over the 10k limit. I was reading i could register the truck as a farm vehicle, i do in fact own a farm. It allows for upto 150miles within registered address and i wouldn't need a cdl. Most of work revolves around the barns i build not earth moving but i do occasionally puck up a job here or there. Farm truck registration also allows for towing of implements.
Be careful with farm tags, you can't legally do construction work on a farm with it, only custom farm work (harvesting, fertilizing, etc.). Farm tags exempt you from federal CDL requirements, but states have different requirements for the license required. In SC, instead of an A or B, you have to have a class E or F. These cover farm, recreational, and emergency vehicles. They are not CDLs, but the tests and medical requirements are the same.
From what i read on FLDHSMV no license requirements for farm truck reg. Similar to extending a tractor trailer chassis to install the dump body, I was discussing w/ my friend how we could also shorten a box truck chassis. Some box trucks are non cdl so with some ingenuity perhaps i could rig a small dumper that way.
I have a C65 Chevy with 427 gas truck engine, air brakes, flat dump with sideboards. It is very useful. I tow a 9 ton with a 16,500 backhoe. It grosses 27,500 so it requires CDL. I like gas engines, but if you'll put a lot of miles on it gets costly. I probably get under 5 MPG. It has 6.89 ratio so 50 MPH is around 3500 RPM. It wouldn't lend itself well to a diesel conversion. Check the laws, Air brakes may require a license, 26,000 is the legal limit, or 10,000 trailer to require a CDL license.
There are many small dump trucks that are under CDL available, and that is usually a better bet than cutting down a van. the frame of a van may not be heavy enough for life as a dump, and the suspension is usually very poorly suited to getting off the asphalt, too. Under CDL just means the trucks GVWR is less than 26,000 lbs. The problem is that the CDL requirements go by the gross vehicle weight rating as set by the vehicle manufacturer and has nothing to do with what the vehicle weighs at any moment. If the gvwr rating of your trailer is 14,000 lbs, then it requires a CDL to pull it with any truck with a GVWR over 12,000 lbs, since the GVWR of the combination (GCWR) will be over 26,000. 12,000 is an f350
I have not seen any non cdl dump trucks on the market in my price range. I could get by w a farm truck reg, personal use is common around here. We live in the AG district, riddled w/ migrant workers, dirt roads and farms. Im gonna put an airlift kit on my ram which should make a huge difference. Plus i read insuring a farm truck is much more affordable too. I know i could get a cdl if i really needed it.
Keep in mind, if you insure it as a farm truck, and get in a wreck using it for construction, you'll be outside your policy, and uninsured. I have farm tags on a couple of my trucks, but I insure them for commercial use, so I only have to worry about a ticket for misuse of farm tags if I do something else with them.
Ah i knew you were a rule bender mitch! Lol. But you make a good point
I have antique insurance. They allow 3000 miles per year, and exclude cargo unless I own it.
Here is my non CDL dump truck. At least without the trailer. Not sure of your price range though.
I have seen very few trucks like that especially in south florida. Further up north i've seen a couple but older usually. I could build that truck easily. If i find the right chassis cab, the dump body is the easy part.
Thats exactly what I did. Swans LPG with 100,000 miles and GVW 23,900. It weighs just under 11,000 empty with full tank LPG. Had to raise the front of the bed since it came off a standard size pickup.
Check out this bad boy!
Ok... Ugly is only skin deep. Any specs on engine, trans, etc? It does have 10 stud budds and an air horn, so I'm assuming air brakes. The missing sheetmetal is a bit curious though, Rust?
Farm tags on the spreader trucks ?
yep
I figured it was the spreader trucks mitch . I imagine it differs state to state . In my neck of the woods farmers don't even bother plating a spreader truck .
The 2 farmers around that have their own don't plate them, but I drive mine up to 100 miles or so. The fertilizer dealers (which I haven't been one of since 2010) have to run commercial plates. I am probably the only person around here to ever pull a mobile home with a floater spreader truck, though.
I'll duck for cover first.. but what about something from Japan? Over here, they're really all we have to choose from in this application, except maybe for the trusty old ACCO ( Australian Commercial Cab Over)
Yeah , but that's still agricultural use so you were fine with the farm tags . Keep up the good work brother .:thumbsup
I have no specs on the ford as of yet. Guy has responded to my email asking if the truck is work ready. Its about 300 miles away so she better be ready for the trip home at the very least. The fusos are popular for landscapers but its not really my style. Ideally i'd like to be able to load 10 tons in the truck. Full size tandem axle rigs usually bring me 20 tons. I've seen farm tags on anything from a beat up pick up to irrigation trucks in these parts so farm truck tag will have to suffice.
This is a lot of truck for the current price - https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=167&acctid=951 L8000, 8.3 with a Swaploader hook lift and dump body. Very versatile truck. If I wanted a single axle truck I would be bidding on it. Here's another on in GA, just outside of Atlanta - https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=26&acctid=5613
Thanks cm1995 those are nice trucks. My old man is weary of me traveling too far to purchase just in case. Towing one those bad boys home is not ideal. I foind thise one within an hour of my farm. Trucks in good shape, kept in the warehouse, and i can use that box for storage.
I've got a '99 Inter 4700 - DT466, 5 sp, air brakes, 25.5K GVW. It's been a good truck, dependable but with only a 5 sp trans it's top speed is 65. We use it as a service truck, it was a welding supply truck before. Really can't go wrong with the 4700/4900's for the price. The DT466 with a 6 or 7 speed trans is the way to go. The 7 speed is a "6+1" which gives you one low gear. I had that trans in a 4300 dump, the low gear is nice for creeping around off road.
Still haven't made a buy guys! Looking at this puppy now...
Its an 89 Kodiak w the caterpillar turbo diesel. Has juice brakes but guy says trucks in perfect working condition. Used to be a roofing truck so bed lifts and dumps. $4k worth it?
Spend some time. Check the entire truck. I bought a $3700 truck. It was a 42,000 mile dealer trade in. Paint was fresh, it drove well, looked very good. The bed soon needed a major overhaul, We replaced door skins, rockers, and cab corners. The tires were good tread, but old. In no time they started showing cracks. 10.00-20 tires are hard to find. New rims, and tires. An engine timing problem drove me nuts. A good mechanic said he hadn't torn it down to confirm, it seemed to him it was the timing chain. By the time they wear out, it's late life for the rest of the engine. I found a 427 truck engine and rebuilt with much of the 366. It was then I learned the timing problem was due to a tiny plastic part in the distributor. A new engine got a new carburetor. My $3700 truck is no longer a $3700 truck.
I totally understand your point. I have a mobile diesel mechanic on speed dial to check any trucks i go see and have serious interest in. I saw this one today. It belongs to a friend of my dads. Been sitting a while but he said w a new battery should crank right up. I can get used tires for these trucks easily in my area and i have a guy that gets me tires at wholesale as well. This guyvwas asking 10k for this truck [obviously why its been sitting in his front yard forever] My guys are currently installing metal roof on a gazebo he built so hopefully that'll be my bargaining chip but how kuch do y'all think this trucks worth? 7k?
What year? engine? trans? It looks to be mid-90's? If the box is in good shape with a centerpost hoist, that itself is probably worth $3000. Just my opinion, based on the trucks you've indicated interest in, I think you should be looking for a Freightliner or Ford with a 5.9 or 8.3 Cummins. If you can't find one of those, then an IH with a DT360 or DT466. I normally would recommend the International first, but with the size truck you are looking for, I feel the 5.9 or 8.3 would be a much better choice. DT's are ok, just not near the engine the little Cummins are. Definitely I would avoid those little Cats at all cost.
Hey CM, how many miles you getting on a DT? Are yours the older mechanical version?
I believe from the badging this truck has a caterpillar engine. The guy was not home when i left my guys there working so I couldnt het too many details. I know its mid 90s but not sure about tranny although ik 99% sure its stick. Im going to talk it over with him once the roofs done and I know he's happy w the work.
Looks to me like a 1985 Ford F800. I have the same truck only the bed is longer. Mine has a 8.2 detroit, and believe it or not ive had no major problems with it in the nearly three years ive owned it.