I am looking to purchase my first skid steer for personal use. I will be using it for road maintenance and some forestry projects on a mountain property. It will not get much use, but I will need it to work a few hours a day several weekends a year. I found a local Bobcat 843 that is in my price range (10K and under), but upon inspection I am pretty scared. I will not be doing any of my own repairs other than scheduled fluid and filter changes. It only shows 2350 hours and was built in 1988. The hour meter is currently working as well. Asking price is $9,500 which seams high for current condition, but about right in our area for a good working unit. My concerns are significant fluid leaks from the engine bay and under carriage, poor quality welds where pins were replaced, and wheel seals that appear to be leaking. The front left wheel hub also looks differently than the other three as it has a raised round portion with three bolts. As this is my first time looking at older heavy equipment, am I just being too picky to find a non leaking, better maintained machine in my budget? Should I consider this unit, and get the price to a point where I could afford to do the repairs?, or should I save my money until I can afford a more expensive machine? Thanks for your advise and time...
The hour meter could have gone around once too so don't trust it. An 843 was a good machine but I think this one is priced too high. Axle seal shouldn't be a big deal but need to find out what the other oil is coming from.
That seal isn't a big deal on something that age. The oil in the bottom could be nothing. You need to see where the engine is dripping, if any. That hose looks like it's capped, so it might be the oil drain hose to change the engine oil, and somebody spilled some the last time the oil was changed. The welds don't look that bad. I'd be more concerned the steel is the right grade. I've hacked enough parts with any old steel where it didn't matter, but here it does.
I will try to see if I can locate the source of the leaks. It seems daunting with oil everywhere, but with a flashlight and some crawling around, I might figure it out. This is the picture of the outside of the leaking wheel bearing. It is the one with the three bolts in the center. Not sure why it looks like this. Have you guys seen this before?
I would pass. I sold a 1998 763 with 3500 hours and 1k on the engine. Machine had no leaks and new pins/bushings in bobtahc for 7500. That machine is too much. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Deals on used machinery in Montana are hard to find, especially low end stuff. It costs so much to ship them from more populated areas. Too bad you missed the Ritchie Bros auctions in Williston, ND. They usually have one in Bozeman around May.
the original axles were a 1 pc design, the one with the 3 bolts is a replacement, hub and axle shaft are 2 piece with the large retainer and 3 bolts
hyd leaks in the engine compartment can come from several places control valve lift cyl hoses pump shaft seal steel tube lines that pass under the blower housing that connect the left and right lift cylinders if this steel lines are leaking the engine has to come out to replace them. personally an 843 would be low on my list of older bobcats. :drinkup
Price probably isn't too bad given where you live. If you could get to a major metro area, you'd have a lot more choices, especially this time of year. Around here, that machine would be less, or you could find something a LOT better in the $12-$13K price range. If you think you can iron out those leaks and seals yourself, then it wouldn't be so bad, but if you have to pay a dealer, you could be talking a few thousand bucks potentially. In that case you'd be better off to continue to keep looking IMO. But on whole, minus the leaks, that's probably a good machine for ya, and not a whole lot to go wrong once you get the kinks out, you don't need high productivity, more like good, cheap, operation. Some other things to consider no matter what machine you're looking at: Dealer support , who's in your area and how far? Mechanical machines like the one you're looking at are great for light users because you pretty much eliminate all the electrical failures that can be extremely annoying when you're in the middle of nowhere. Type of machine - Do you need a cab and heater for winter use (you can get creative and add things to a non-cab machine, but not as good)? Do you need high-flow hydraulics for like a snow thrower (some will run on standard flow)? If you're older, some guys like the lower step-in and foot room of a hands-only operated machine like a Gehl or Case ...or any of the newer machines. Especially older gentlemen who might find it difficult to lift their feet over a high threshold. Getting in/out of one of those Bobcats with the center ram and foot pedals requires special foot placement each and EVERY time you get in/out, vs something like Case or Gehl machines with handle controls. Also, are you on a hill? If so, maybe you should be looking at a longer wheelbase machine like a New Holland or a longer 8xx Bobcat. I have a neighbor who is on a steeper hill and he had to move to a longer-wheelbase New Holland machine, just too dangerous and tippy with the Bobcat he had. But on level logging roads a short unit turns shorter (but has a lower tip-over load rating too). If you wanted to get into a backhoe, Bobcats are nice in that they have a nice backhoe mounting strategy that you would appreciate, that other outfits lack. You'll definitely want to eventually get a set of forks and maybe a tooth bucket or a plow. Bobcat mounting is a 'standard', if you look at other older machines from that era. Be careful on older machines if you look at any that you don't get boxed into an older proprietary mounting system where you can't easily buy new attachments. Do you have to trailer the skid loader? If so, how big is your truck/trailer and how big of a machine can they handle? I'm probably leaving a lot off this list, but you get the point. If you could take a few days and travel to a nearby larger area and go through some dealers and craigslist ads, you might find a machine in the same price range that doesn't need any work, or snoop around machinerytrader.com and have one shipped to you. Here is a unit for a bit more that would probably be better for you because it's longer wheelbase and comes with a tooth bucket that you're going to need for road and digging projects (saves you $1,000 right there). You can buy a straight bucket used anywhere, but a good tooth bucket is pretty pricey. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/bfs/5879917243.html Or hear ya go, this looks like a steal (tracks, heat, toothbucket, newer): http://madison.craigslist.org/hvo/5942632005.html Yeah, it has some hrs, but you can replace bushing pretty easy if they need it. Unfortunately you'd have to do some driving though. This is a good time of year to swing some pretty good deals (before xmas is even better).
college lane I decided to pass on this machine. I have been looking only in my local area, and nearby towns. Selection is very limited. It sounds like I may be better off shopping in a larger metro area, and dealing with the shipping costs. Even if this puts me in the same prices as are found in my area, I can actually shop for the machine that fits my needs best. Jeepwalker you made some great points, and I appreciate your insight. My land actually has several steep areas, and roads. I was not sure if a few inches in wheelbase would make that much difference, but it sounds like it might. I have been focused on radial lift loaders, because of the simplicity and digging proficiency. However I like the idea of the New Hollands and Deere's lift arms and lower center of gravity. Also I would hope to tow it with my Toyota Tundra (10,300lb tow capacity) on a standard 10,000gvw car hauler. So I have been trying to stay near or under 6,000lbs for the machine. At this point, I am going to start looking for something with a longer wheel base. Deere 240/250, 317??? New Holland lx665, LS170??? Newer bobcat 7xx, 8xx,?? It just seems looking at the longer wheelbase machines, I end up newer which puts me into more electronics, and higher cost than I probably want/need. Any suggestions on specific models with longer wheelbase, and lower center of gravity? Especially basic mechanical versions? Thanks for the help!
Glad some of those ideas helped. A few longer wheelbase machines that come to mind and shouldn't break the bank: Case 60XT, 70Xt, 75XT (vertical lift) and similar variants have longer wheelbases and are more affordable nowadays: http://madison.craigslist.org/grd/5930708620.html http://janesville.craigslist.org/hvo/5934969918.html (the 90XT is an industrial machine, too big for your truck to tow, but built strong) New Holland and Deere, as you've noted: There are several in my area in the $9k - $12K some with cab/heat. http://madison.craigslist.org/hvo/5925684000.html http://denver.craigslist.org/hvo/5921677923.html (how far is this one from you??) In MT, I would be seriously thinking about a skid with a cab/heat if you are going to use it much in the winter or in the cold. It's gets cold out there. There's hardly anything worse than sitting in a steel cab on a cold day with stone-cold toes and wind blowing through your ears. Doesn't matter how much you bundle up! Especially with your shorter summers. If you have time to look, see if you can locate one with an enclosed cab. Plus they're quieter. You can take the door off in the summer and open the windows. Best if you can find one with a tooth bucket too. Personally, that's what I'd start with. If you buy from a dealer, ask if they can sub out a regular bucket for a toothed one. Bobcat has some longer wheel base machines (longer than what you were looking at) like the S185. Around here it seems like New Hollands don't have as good of resale and you can get a decent one for not that much $$. My buddy who has owned several bobcats bought a L185 with heated cab & AC a couple years ago and really loves it (course it was $20k). There are a lot of good skid steers on C/L between the Twin Cities, Milwaukee and Chicago region. When I checked C/L in the WA area I didn't see that many skids for sale and Denver seemed like 20% more expensive. ...might be time for a long-distance road trip! Good luck!
Take a look at the gehl 6635 and 6640 machines. They are long and the engine is mounted central not in the back. Very stable units. I did a ton of research on this topic before settling on gehl for its stability and length. If you want shorter they have the 5635 and 5640.
In that price range, a heated cab is probably out of the question.
Good thought. Gehl machines around here seem to have less resale value relative to other machines of similar age/hrs, but the 35 and 40 series units seem to be well-designed (better than the 25 series) with features like notched arms (for improved side visibility, which seems trivial until you get into a machine with arms right in your view), t-handle controls (no pedals, more leg room), low step-through entry (safer in/out), robust cab design (safer) with easy tilt maintenance, turbo and so on. I haven't owned one but looked them over pretty well. A lot of farmers use them, and I see some on construction sites now and then next to the typical Cat units which says something I guess, and a lot of times you'll see them with insane hours, which I take as a sign that those machines, at least, didn't give a whole lot of trouble to make the owner get rid of it. A demo contractor I knew had a 6635 with a bunch of hours and said it was a beast. He's owned and operated a bunch of other skids, mostly bobcats, and was a guy who could talk and compare machines all day long if you got him going. Your're right, I just don't see a whole lot of skids out where you are on C/L. Maybe not as many C/L users out there. Quick scan here and lookie here ....here's a great machine for you, even has heat (needs door). The 5635's seem to have a slightly shorter wheelbase than the 6635's, but are lighter too. Hmmmm ....maybe time to visit the great city of Chicago (wonderful downtown BTW). http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/hvo/5948243770.html There's actually quite a few Gehls around this corridor. A lot of implement dealers sell them new/used, so you would do well to scan implement dealers across the plains and in our area to Chicago. I saw a decent 6635 for not that much, but it was higher hrs. But here's another possible candidate if you don't mind a drive: http://sd.craigslist.org/grq/5944952391.html
I am definitely going to keep looking outside my area. I would probably have to have it shipped if it was over 500 miles away. However, I found a local skid that peaked my interests and looks to be a pretty good deal. It would be breaking my plan of buying a simple non electronic older machine though. It is a 2004 Cat 246B that has less than 1000 hours, and in good shape. Asking $14K, which seems cheap for our area. More than I wanted to spend, but I wouldn't have to travel far to pick it up. It has a 45" wheelbase and is 66" wide so it should be pretty stable and not nearly as tippy as an older bobcat. The turbo, and electronics still make me a little nervous, but I figured, if it ends up not working out for me I should have no trouble selling it for nearly what I might buy it for. They just listed it less than a week ago, and I already have a call into the salesman.
I had a 2008 236B and now have a 2001 246 (A). They are easy and fun to operate. I agree with your concerns about turbos and electronics, but these were the best deals I could find in Western Montana when I was shopping for a skid steer. Cat had some oil pump problems with skid steer engines, leading to catastrophic failure. There is a thread about it on this forum. However it only effects a small percentage and there are plenty of them around with over 8000 hours including both I've owned. The one you mention seems like a good deal if the hours are true, but if there is a salesman it sounds like a dealer, therefore probably not a bargain. Why would a dealer sell at an auction price? The aux hydraulics have electronic controls which can be very expensive to repair, so when you check one out, push the aux function buttons on the right joystick and make sure you hear the engine slow down as the aux section of the pump deadheads against the relief.
That seems like a lot better unit than what you were looking at before. Once you cross into the near-$15k price range for skid steers, you can find significantly better pre-owned machines than the sub $10k range. You should be able to get a cab and heat for that money. The 246 is going to be a little heavier for your truck than you planned, but probably a nicer unit all around to do what you want to do, I think. When you're bargaining with the dealer, that's the time to swing a deal on a tooth bucket if that machine doesn't have one. Either see if he can swap a used one on that machine, or give you a discount on a new/used one and you will have both types of bucket. Really can't do a whole lot of digging with a regular bucket, unless you're just going to spread around gravel. In the Rockies, you're going to want/need teeth (or maybe you're in flat Montana?). Same goes with a set of forks. Forks are almost a must when you have a skid loader. Put stuff on pallets and move it around ...lifting things here and there. When you're swinging the whole deal, that's usually the best time to get deals on attachments. Seems I recall reading the catastrophic CAT engine failures being traced back to using non-oem oil filters. A difference with the CAT filters vs the aftermarket filters, but look into it. The Cats I've been in had good ergonomics, seem like nice units.
That 246B sold to an employee the same day it was traded in. I guess it was too good to be true. The shopping continues. I am not in a hurry, and will be patient and wait for the right deal. We have a lot of hard ground on our property, and I will definitely need a toothed bucket.
If you buy a smooth bucket and it has holes drilled in the edge as many of them do, check ebay for sets of teeth to fit. I bought a really good set of teeth for mine, $140.
The problem with the Cat engines was a defective oil pump, I know it first hand. The engine involved was the Perkins in the first series of the 246/248, I don't know if they switched engine manufacturer in the B series or not, at some point they switched to Mitsubishi as the engine supplier. I would be cautious of a machine with the Perkins in it. On the Bobcat you first asked about, it seemed to me to be in pretty rough shape for the number of hours recorded. My machine is a 2000 with about the same hours and is in no where near that poor of condition. It is either inaccurate or has seen a tough life. Be wary of this with other machines you look at.