I know I have written on this before, but is getting where the news is starting to push on that button harder. Seems trucking is losing talented operators at a alarming rate, like for every four leaving(retired, illnesses, tired of overwork) one EFFECTIVE operator comes in. Seeing it in ALL the trades to an excess now while all us Old Farts keep on keeping on yet we only have so long before we have to walk away. Ford dealer and Deere dealer here where I live, body shops, trucking, excavating companies are all hurting. And to add a log on the fire I have been told being somewhat broken, at "My Age" will be problematic to find work. Now ain't that a kick in the teeth, try to remain in the work force and they tell me not worth my salt, really. Is there ANYTHING WE can do, anyway we can stir emotion for the work to keep kids from becoming absolutely useless? To keep ourselves active and able to teach the little Millennials HOW to work for a decent living?
The company I work for suffers the same problem and we have no answers for it. Truck Shop
We as the bearers of the flame need to come up with something I suspect as the Great Giant Brains out there really have no clue where to start. I am not the sharpest tool in the shed and as I age the edge wears a little duller, all the big mucky mucks think College is the answer, degree for whatever makes you smarter than the 'Old Guys' so you will do better, I do not and will never agree to that.
I can't speak for the American school system but the Canadian school system drills college into you at a very young age. I've always got the impression that society deems you a failure if you don't at least have some kind of degree. There are a lot of possible reasons. I think one of the big barriers to kids getting into trades is they have to "earn" an apprenticeship. This usually entails an indefinite amount of time doing some **** job like equipment washing or some other dirty job no one else wants to do. While I agree one must prove their worth and pay their dues, you can't blame an 18 year old for not wanting to waste their time slaving away in a washbay in hopes they "might" get an apprenticeship if one comes up. Sometimes these kids are stuck there for 3 or 4 years before they get offered an apprenticeship.
We started hiring recent grads out of the State Tech school here in MO at the plant I worked. Those kids had to complete a Assoc Degree program to graduate where entry level at the facility was grunt, janitor, groundsmen and general lumper, a few came in then became angry the apprentice program was by seniority and they would HAVE TO do these menial tasks as well educated as they were while awaiting a opening. Well most are no longer there, failure to perform duties, failure to adhere to scheduling(attendance), use of private electronics during work hours(sitting on their butts playing on I-phones) or general insubordination(refusing to work). Is a shame as they could have worked into some really good paychecks, we are hearing that horror story from all across the industry. Most on here started on the ground running, power washing and being inundated with goo dirt or other associated nastiness. We all did work seemingly demeaning but we survived and I propose are better skilled for it.
I've had my CDL for 6 months now and currently drive for [Swift, CRST, Schneider...] and am ready to make the jump to Heavy Haul 13-axle for the big $$$. What companies are hiring that don't do hair follicle testing? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Many moons ago when I was an operator the foreman that broke in the new worms had an apprentice that didn't understand the term "teamwork is everybody doing what I say". He took him back to the yard and gave him a hot saw, 5 gal of fuel, and a 20' stick of DI- "cut this thing into 2" Dutchmen- all of it". Next day, hand dig- painted a rectangle handed him a shovel "when you wear this one out, call me I'll bring you a new one". One day 2 apprentices doing a thrust block using sack-crete, they didn't stack them by the edge of the hole or even get them out of the back of the truck- they asked him if he could get them for them, "no problem guys" and proceeded to pitch them into the hole with a foot of water in it SplashSplashSplash! Funny stuff. I don't think you could run a crew like that these days, peoples feelings and all.
What is wrong with hair folicle testing? It is said to be very accurate. If you don't use, or have not used drugs recently, there should be no concern on your part about what type of drug testing is used. I agree about today's young adults. As a part time school bus driver, I look at the students who are graduating from high school and think, "God help us all when these folks start running things".
The young ones coming up have to get to work doing something. Who is going to pay for our social security if they don't?
Exactly! But that question is asked all the time. My friend says his biggest problems hiring are drug testing ("but it's legal in Washington to use pot"- not with a CDL Skippy), expecting to go into the nicest truck not the hand-me-down, expecting to get a seat in the 345 and not the #2 backhoe when the ad is for "Laborers", and a "flexible" work schedule. BUT He also has one other big problem- he doesn't want to pay enough to attract someone with XX years of experience and/or went through 4000hrs OJT and every Tues/Thurs on your own time classroom training to get a card. "I just don't have enough to pay someone that much". You get what you pay for buddy. And the talent slowly drains away.....
Maybe this one is just me but I think that this "Apply online" trend is hurting a lot of a company's ability to find good workers. Anyone can write up a complete B.S. resume and get an interview (with an HR rep who has likely never even seen a piece of construction equipment). I've probably submitted a hundred online applications in my life. Never one single response. If I walk into a shop with my resume and Journeyman papers and speak with the service manager directly, I've usually got an offer letter in my email within 2 weeks. I think that by removing the service manager or shop foreman from the hiring/interview process, a lot of companies are skipping over many talented individuals. Or they're hiring people who don't mesh well with the current workforce.
I never had luck with distanced applications, personal attention to detail was always the best. Took fifteen years of patience and renewing my application at Union Electric Co to gain a entry level job. They needed mechanics yet were in a hiring freeze as had too many employees in the shops. The late 70's early 80's were the BAD years of EEOC, the companies out there hired predominantly minorities or those from the 'Less Fortunate' roles of life to give them a break and a chance to better themselves. I can honestly state, when I accepted the option of a 'Temporary, Full Time Interim Mechanic' I had no idea who I would **** off. When I arrived for the initial testing the HR department looked my list of positions over and picked a written test, I almost aced that one. next step a interview with the Shops manager, he dragged a box of aged mostly obsolete parts from under his desk and had me ID them. I almost aced that one, missed a few year spans on some pieces but he was aware I knew A LOT of machines. Next was a impromptu request to one line a basic air brake system, handed him a labeled, full layout he said looked like came out of a service manual, did not tell him I actually studied air brakes pretty hard to keep ahead of the curve did not need to. Next and last test was to arrive at the shop I would be working in, day hours, meet the day shop foreman and the crew in the garage and take a two day try to stump the duck testing. Well end of first day I was told I had the job, had already completed BOTH days events and passed but had to show back up next day for show and tell with the other staff. Turned out, there were thirty seven Mechanics Helpers, that had taken these tests mostly on in house based process machines, MULTIPLE TIMES and failed, repeatedly, miserably. They saw me as a White, Privileged Job Stealer, even as they COULD not never tried to learn push hard enough to learn what they needed to pass the tests. Felt those stares for almost two years when opted to move over to Power Generation, Nuclear. Passed those tests where a group of Navy Nukes did not, they felt I stole their God Given Right jobs.
It's a real problem here too, for the same reasons already mentioned. So the "solution" to the problem is to bring in immigrant drivers, even though many of them can't back a trailer (one company in particular has guys driving around in utes, reversing tipper truck and trailers into sites that the truck Steerers can't do) or perhaps don't even have a license - not so long ago there was a scandal where an immigrant working at a licensing centre was selling heavy vehicle licenses to his fellow countrymen. The bigger picture issue with that is, often these people are working illegally, so get paid less than minimum wage, which is causing responsible operators to shut the doors as they can't compete with prices. Our road toll is raising year by year, and trucks are involved in more crashes. Worrying times.
When hiring is removed from people who actually know the job and the team to “professionals” things seem to go wrong pretty rapidly. Why big companies think an outsider knows more about what you want from an employee than the line manager I have no idea, but over here middle management has been so hollowed out the few left have no time to do their job let alone spend time on recruitment and it is showing. Graham
its not just in trucking or equipment operation, its across ALL the hands on trades, plumbing, carpenter, mason, electrician and the list goes on forever..
I call the unable to properly operate a truck here "Herders", they just drive the Herd toward the goal!! Used to be a stand alone drayage freight company here called Roadway or "Big R" Always kidding about the drivers thinking the 'R' on the Gearshift knob or shift pattern was for the company name as they never used that position!!
Is not looking good all across trade and as far as I am aware is pretty much worldwide in the developed nations. Except China.
When I find that someone has a degree in something, it tells me he has a good memory and ability to stick to it, but it doesn't mean he's "smart" or able to reason and think for himself, let alone accomplish anything. A degree means "I have been indoctrinated". The lack or work ethic today is a symptom of a much larger problem, IMO. They don't get work ethic from teevee nor from college.
On the plus side though it will hopefully be a seller's market for the young folks who do actually have their ducks in a row.
Well If everyone had a father like mine-Charles W. Flake-First Sargent Master. Entered the army in 1934 at seventeen, drove six horse team pulling munitions and piece till 1938 which was the last year for horse drawn artillery stationed at Fort Sam Houston. He was a drill instructor till 1941 then reupped into the Army Air Corp. Was shipped out to New Guinea in 1943 where he spent the remainder of WWII came home in 1946. He was a Hard Ass but a very good dad. My two brothers and I learned about hard work early on and being a slacker was going to get your ass kicked. Honesty with my dad was everything and respect was earned not demanded. I was taught to do the best I could everyday whether I liked what I was doing or not. One favorite saying he had-pattern after your self don't pattern after others. Young people have been given to much with out earning it.----Here's to ya dad. Truck Shop
I agree with everything said here kids don’t want to work today out here just like everybody else we’re hurting for good people especially in the plumbing trade all I have mostly done is run a tractor of some sort but I have a class a I can weld and turn a wrench I’m not the best at mechanicin or welding but I can get it done now I’m going through an apprentice program for plumbing when it’s all done I will be able to do just about everything in the field that our company does I have had to do a lot of labor jobs and grunt work hell I still do it but it has taken me along time to put my time in to get where I’m at I’m still learning to better my self for my family my brothers never had to work like I did they still want everything handed to them
I blame the schools and SOME parents for the poor work ethic. It started with participation trophies and elimnating dodge ball from gym class. It's not OK for the athletic kid to hit the nerdy kid with the dodgeball, but it's completely ok for the nerdy kid to rub his A+ paper in the face of the athletic kid who might struggle with retaining the academic knowledge. Completely separate skills, and the world needs both types of people to function. School always promotes strong academic grading, and doesn't not consider the effort put forth by the individual student. Its always just about the grade, and no life skills have emphasis put on them. With the participation trophies and no kid left behind policies, the kids don't have to work hard to get the same results and the ones that busted a**. Those beliefs carry on into later in life. Once they hit the work force (after Mommy and Daddy buy them their first car and they go away to college and are 21 years old and haven't worked more than 3 months at a time over summer break) they expect to be catered to and immediately get the good jobs. I've worked in restaurants, automotive industry, military, and local gov't. The entitled mentality spans every career field. It's only getting worse. I don't have kids, but as all my friends start popping them out... They all agree that the trades are gonna be the way to go. Every trade is going to be very short of competent workers shortly. I have a friend who is a Doctor, both her parents are Doctors. Even they felt (3 generations of Doctors in the family) that college has become over-rated and that the trades need to be promoted more. At least here in NY, they have turned the bachelor's degree into nothing more than a piece of paper to wipe your bunghole with. I've typed up about 4 different responses for this thread. This is a topic I have been complaining about forever. This was the version with the least amount of disgruntled rambling. I intentionally deleted my feelings of an 8 year old having a smart phone and teenagers taking d**k pics. That's a whole nother ramble. Glad I wasn't drinking tonight.
The kids that realize it is not a instant world will do alright. Most do not have the patience to learn a trade. And nearly all of them want a new house, new car, boats, and everything else new right away. And all financed at a adjustable rate interest. They don't look at what interest cost, only the amount of the payment. Hide and watch for when the economy takes a crap again.
And it will take a crap, look like a Great Dane that left a pile of cord wood in the yard. Truck Shop
I blame this all on elementary and high schools not teaching the basics of anything or why anyone would need to know anything. How many high school graduates could tell you how their car insurance works. Only the crooks know what happens in the criminal court system. How many graduates can read a news paper and give you an interpretation of what they have read. I haven't met one graduate who could fix a leaking toilet let alone write a basic living budget to handle all that money they think they will be making. It's OK though because all those hungry immigrant kids will be happy to step into hard and nasty work we have been doing all our lives.
How many even know what a newspaper is? How many up to 26 still rely on Mommy and Daddy to pay their bills as they do not have an income?
This will all change in five to fifteen years. Us 'Old Timers' are dying off, kids parents are our age group and under serious stress so life expectancy drops drastically. Sorry to say it will become fish or cut bait then and are not enough Democrats with deep enough pockets to feed enough Welfare aid to support the numbers that will arise.
The one percenters will have to rely on robots and immigrants.
Not me and I haven't since I was 18. I can't say the same for some of my other highschool friends.
I've said this before. I blame the education system dang near 100%. When you treat kids that are good with their hands like lost causes what do you expect. I suspect a big swing is coming. Gonna be a ton of kids going into the trades in 10 years. But there is gonna be a gap for awhile. When you see the ironworkers union advertising on Craigslist you know their needing people. Had a guy tell me they need around a 100 guys for an upcoming project and the hall only has 20 guys available. Hopefully the wages go up but I'm afraid companies are just gonna hire illegals and pay them $10 an hour.
I can Totally agree, Made this comment the other day to another. When the kids run the schools instead of the staff then something HAS to change. We ARE there now and I am almost certain a lack of Discipline on the rowdy ones is the issue. Just cannot get the point across to some parents and most administrators that they are stupid to think they can talk their away around over or thru to a unruly kid. There are a scattered few, 92U, Junkyards kids, a VERY few I deal with to be a point that do not need such a retaliatory event.
Knepptune, the issue on hiring illegals is they have to pass the same quals tests and carry the same cert cards as anyone else today, most cannot read English so a moot point as to skilled trades.
D, you can add my kids too. from an early age they knew if they didn't work for it... they wouldn't get it. My oldest is now 30 and her and her husband have a pair of Peterbilts and a successful cattle/flatbed hauling business. the next kid in line is a Machinist/weldor in a local manufacturing plant hitting 90K a year. My 2 youngest are both in the medical field making 60K plus per year. I'm so glad they don't live in the basement I don't have.
I have not seen an issue with credentials for the trades anywhere. Go to any residential construction site today and listen to the radio stations being blared across the whole site. The language the station is blaring has not been in english for a long time. Carpentry, roofing, concrete and masonry workers in this area are majority hispanic. I can't say how many are legal but suspect many if not most were illegal at some point. Go to the forestry and agriculture industries and you will find the predominant language is Spanish and the people doing the grunt work are immigrant. I also don't agree about the trouble makers in high schools running the schools. I have seen the teacher unions running the schools to their benefit and not to the student or parent's benefit. There are discipline problems for sure but the real issue is what is being taught is whether not the person doing the teaching is qualified to do so.
As far as truck repair that end is becoming locked by the manufacture. Most trucks are going automatic transmission and the Detroit DT auto repair is fairly well tied to them. The manufactures are offering high mileage warranties {Freightliner 750,000 drive train} so most independent shops will be doing less major work. The jobs will be at dealerships. As far as construction it's whom ever they can hire for the cheapest. Cars are throw away's nobody is rebuilding engines in that area anymore, most make it 180,000 and to the chipper it goes. Tool and die makers don't exist anymore that's C & C. Welding and fab work will always be there. Truck Shop
Pretty much a fact on cars, run em til they drop, send them to the scrap pile. I do understand the dealers getting the edge on indy shops but then the dealers cannot get help either, the manufacturers offer a long term warranty and can't back it they stand to lose millions, that will only last as long as they do or as long as the do not play the warranty denied game. Have seen that kind of crap coming and do not like the looks of it, they kill off or attempt to kill off independents and aftermarket suppliers will dry up themselves then the conditions are right to initiate conditions to add to causes for the next Great Depression.
We have 56,000 bridges in this country that need repair not mention highways and dams. And the budget has been axed to repair those things. And those things require skilled construction people and operators. Truck Shop
You will have to get the super rich to kick in a buck or two for infrastructure projects. None of the rest of us will be able to afford much more than a bus ticket the way things are going.
Back in the 60's and 70's, our defense against the high price of poor quality new cars and high interest rates was to rebuild the vehicles we had and run em another 100K miles. The manufacturers and bankers have outsmarted us. Now they deliberately make disposa-cars too complex and inaccessible to repair that are designed to fail when the loan is paid off. Since they have left us no alternative, I think from now on we'll all be slaves to the bankers, paying them a fortune in interest on loans they issue out of thin air.
Don't know that they had been axed. In MO, OK and IL they are replacing bridges at a monumental pace, repairing and replacing road surfaces, road beds and developing better trafficways. Just are so few bodies to do the work fewer and fewer companies out there can hire enough to make bids, work level IS overwhelming without tradesmen. Currently have a group from Osmose walking power and telephone support poles, determining which is good and bad for considerations as to underground replacements on phone service, updating to three phase from single for the rural region here. They only managed to hire 60% of the manpower they were needing to do the work so are working MASSIVE OT. Line builders are having same problem as are the utilities here. Local grade contractors are hiring back help that retired five to ten years ago, not enough new bodies in the mix coming thru.
Everything is that way. Finite life. And yes the financial industry, manufacturing and oil have got all figured out with one another. There is no simple conservative path anymore. On another note what end user will buy this electronic plastic crap? As far as the new upcoming workforce and how they will sustain the standard priors have since the 50's. No... It is becoming a push button society tethered to the internet and technology. History is old and old isnt good because its work. Slowly as the standard decreases because of a stagnant wage and rising goods the people will do away with essentials that priors deemed a necessity like cars, house with a yard etc. or just like like the mexicans...
The only time these kids put down there phone or game controller is to pick up a joint or hold their hand out. Y'all are 100% dead nuts on the money. They don't want to work, they don't want to get dirty and they damn sure dont want to be out of cell phone range. I cant work in the heat, cant work in the cold or the rain or the sun. Theres always a reason. And every sentence begins with ,"I can't." I said that once when young dumb and full a *** to a senior. He looked at me and said ok. Go pack yer **** and get out. I said wait. Im not saying I won't, i just dont know how, he said, "oh, thats different, I'll show ya. Don't ever tell me you cant." And I never did again. Lots of respect for that ol man
I'm so thankful for the way I was raised, I was homeschooled from grade 3 until 9, then finished at an alternate school, I got a good education without any of the distractions associated with public schools. My parents had a home business, dad was a custom furniture maker, I was an legal employee for their business at the age of 12, I only needed 2 hours per day to complete my schooling and worked with my dad the rest of the day. Also made coffee and lunch when mom was out working her second job, which taught me how to cook! We never had much money but had lots of old cars/equipment to tune my skills from an early age. I was able to acquire tools and toys with my own money which felt great, got my first real dirt bike at 14, a basket case YZ250, spent the winter rebuilding the engine and fixing it up. I realized I liked wrenching more than woodwork and my dad had hired a skilled worker as he wasn't about to stick me on the table saw day after day. We had a 5ton hiab truck that we took for inspection at a local truck shop, I asked the owner and got hired on the spot as a shop helper, rode my 250 to work on logging roads as I wasn't old enough to get a driver's license and didn't want to put my parents out. I paid $300 per month room and board to my parents, still did all the chores and pitched in for groceries. I was able to save up and rent my own place at 18 It all worked out pretty well for me, have my own piece of land and equipment etc. It's all paid for and I'm debt free at 33. (Hey that rhymes!) My older brother has the complete opposite work ethic, still lives with mom at 35 (which actually worked out good since my dad passed) he pays his way doing online work which is OK, atleast he's not a moocher!! I always found it strange as we had the same up bringing but he attended public school..
I've seen this with my kids and their various generations, age range for mine is 18 to 3. We're lucky around here. Still have votech, schools are still good and not too PC. FFA is going strong as well. Gives me a little hope. I don't have to go very far away to lose that hopeful feeling. I run into very similar situations as mentioned above. We have guys come in to work as ground hands, starting at scale wage which is $20.89. Full benefits after the qualification period. Vested pension at 5 years. Excellent package. They don't see the value in it. How in the hell can they not? Is it schools? None of my kids have had any sort of financial literacy stuff that I'm aware of. They learn that at home, at least mine do. I've read some really interesting and disturbing articles on the affects of social media on self esteem, social skills etc and it makes me want to take their phones away. There will be a vacuum for skilled labor no doubt. What happens to fill it or replace that pool is anybody's guess. I am so fortunate my kids have drive and are self motivated. They have their teenage issues yes but they know it takes work to get the things in life we need. I'm hoping they also understand that monetary things don't make up the value of a person. As far as cars etc. Spot on, planned obsolescence as well as inflating prices beyond the average person's ability to pay in cash. Who'd have thought a new SUV would or could be $70,000? Blows me away. A car payment has become an accepted norm. People look at me like I'm nuts when I tell them I don't have a payment. Won't have one. Instant gratification and a 30 second approval process will be the financial death of many a man or woman. I learned that the hard way myself! I could go on and on! Makes me physically sick to think about some of this stuff. The future of our country could be riding on those fubar'd kids.....their fubar'd parents need a swift kick in the sack! Grrrr
So true about lack of financial planning taught in schools. I graduated almost 10 years ago and even back then they didn't teach anything more than how to write out a budget. I honestly think I'm the only one in my grad class who knew how to write a cheque properly. (who uses cheques these days now anyways?)
What's a cheque? Ohhh you mean check! Lol. I use cash, green money. Carry a company credit card. That's it. My kids see other people with new cars, big houses etc and they ask why we don't have stuff like that. Don't get me wrong we have nice things just not the latest and greatest. I tell them those people have credit and a monthly payment. That's not wealth and what do they do if something happens? Lose it all when their savings runs out, IF they even have any! It amazes me the things my boys pick up on even at 7&3. There might be hope for the country if they have any say in it! My youngest will be a ball buster. Kick *** and take names. I guess four older siblings will do that to a feller!
Still carry checkbook in hand & cash in the pocket . Stores are happy with either one in my area . On a good note at least the new chick at the grocery store needs my date of birth when buying barley soda . I must look younger then I feel . LOL ! I'm old enough to be your papaw ...... And give me the receipt for the barley soda ! it's a business expense .
since i do think I'm probally younger then most of yall and am a millennial I did go to college twice pain in the ass the second time around my first time was for welding then second was for business administration. ive had three jobs Walmart for a short period of time a log mill and then caterpillar twice. the problem with us finding a job is you either need experience or a education or both but no one wants to hire an 18 year old because no experience in the fields when you do try to get into the field its a basic you might can do this in two years. two years is a long time for a pay raise when your only making 10 dollars an hour or for one job I went to work for the pay was 9 dollars an hour with a good hour drive. no one likes to give chances anymore to anyone because everything cost so much if your a laborer here you may be a laborer for two years before they even consider putting you in something. its hard to be wanna work for certain companies when you pay want go up until you actually move into something.
I think if you checked with all of us over fifty you will find that we all went through the same thing. I hope you are making a little fun but what you are describing and showing in your post is exactly what we are talking about
I wasn't taught much at all about money, school or home. Fun experience learning all that. Absolutely ridiculous theres not an entire semester on personal finance. That lack of financial sense in society blows my mind. On a side note, millenials on average save more then then the previous generation did at our age. So there is some hope.
If people weren't taught that profit is a dirty word everyone could get a lot richer instead of trying to hold their neighbor down. The business horse sense on this site has taught me a lot.
only good thing about having no experience at 18 doing anything is no matter what your job is you gain experience I do wish people would give everyone a shot if its reasonable at least
My first real mechanic job I cleaned the $hitter every morning. On occasion the owner who was quite OCD did all but a white glove inspection. It never bothered me. I think I made 9 or 9.50. That's been 20 years ago. I think there are many reasons or combination of reasons for the sense of entitlement many kids have. I read an article that blamed it on the baby boomers. So it's my old mans fault! Seriously, it was a well researched article that explained the affects of WWII and how they lived life after the war. It was a good read for sure.
My last entry on this subject. Not everything is about you and where your going or getting ahead of the eight ball. In every job I've had people that were depending on me. I look at my job as a responsibility to take care of problems no matter what time of day. That's all part of talent and don't expect a bunch of congratulations or pay raise every time you think your a hero or did something heroic. Truck Shop
My dad always said to do the best job you could the first time and don't quit a job unless you have another one to go to. I haven't always followed the 2nd piece of advice. You pi-- me off or don't show me respect and don't be surprised when I leave. The last couple of jobs I was lucky they came up when I was looking. Had the job I was at been better I wouldn't have had reason to be looking. My dad was always more than willing to share his knowledge and I try to do the same thing. If I don't know I'll say I don't know instead spewing a bunch of BS. I consider it a compliment if someone is asking me for advice. I can't stand people who are so insecure they figure you're going to take their job if they help you out.
Cui bono? If people were taught financial sense in Schools, it would cost banksters trillions of dollars in interest on loans they issue out of thin air. I guarantee that they don't want us to understand how the so-called Federal Reserve works. Borrow, eat, sleep, watch teevee, obey, borrow, work, pay, work, borrow, pay.
I dont think anybody disputes the fact that it's a bitch getting your foot in the door. What most of us are complaining about, is the kids who get the opportunity. 9 out of 10 lazy, shiftless bastards who are a family friend or relative or some crap. They get in and prove what a waste of oxygen they are. Catwelder, iI get what yer sayin. Its these entitled 90% setting a bad mold for you. When i wanted to work somewhere, I was there at 5:30 waiting for the boss/owner to show up. I'd ride his ass til he'd give me a chance or call the police. Then once I'd earned that position, it was on me to prove he was right to give me a chance.
i applied to one place three times third time said the with it want hire me screw it I went to one interview where I was there before the owner and then his office person got there and then gonna ask me do I still want the interview had been waiting for an hour just for the boss to get there biggest waste of time ive ever went through in my life
Patience is the key, many potential employers will leave you sit to see if persistent, a pest or belligerent enough to be scared of.
actually he was mowing his grass he forget I had a interview
Hmmm, sounds a bit convenient for excuse.
he was mowing his grass because he rode up there on a lawn mower with his shorts on sandals and a tank top
It would have been the perfect opportunity for you to assure him that you would not show up to work dressed like that.
Watch "A Millennial Job Interview" on YouTube This sums it up.
So true! Crazy that's what they've become. Good lord.
aint that the truth it couldn't of been done any better
I have actually heard one like that!!
I've had 17 or 18 year old kids show up with their mother it's bad enough if mom stays in the car but I've had them participate in the interview. " sorry mom just cost your kid a job"
wow this past summer when I was up north for school for 2 weeks I have 3 younger guys from our company in their early 20s and quite a few in the class in their early 20s one day on break I walked into the break room and guess what their all on their phones and no one was talking to one another trying to get to know each other every chance they get their on their phones cant go 8 hrs without it that was one nice thing when we were working at the prison cant take your phone with you
I have a kid working for me right now, he's a good kid, knows nothing, but shows up every day and puts in a good effort so I'll take the time and teach him, not just the trade, but things he should have learned at home like how to look at a problem and work your way through it. A couple of weeks ago my journeymen carpenters were doing some final touches on a house, real finicky stuff and there was absolutely nothing for him to do so rather then send him home early I took him back to my shop and he helped me tidy up then we went to my barn and fed hay, bedded cattle and fixed a few things that I have been neglecting. While we were doing this 3:00 o'clock came so we went to the house for break, my wife was home so she made me a snack and offered him the usual, coffee , tea, pop,cookies, home baking, I give him credit he very politely said no thank you then put his head back down and spent the next 15 minutes on his phone... wow if my kids or if I ever did that I'd get a slap in the head and made to apologize for my rudeness. That night my wife and where talking about it, nobody has taught him better. I am so proud of my own kids, we have twin boys 30 and a daughter 25, they all have had thier own homes for several years. My sons are both tradesmen and my daughter is in administration at a hospital and has had three promotions in three years and I have no idea how many times I have had parents of there friends thank my wife and myself for raising such polite kids ( don't know how it happened I'm kinda an A Hole,must be my wife ) So I think a huge part of the problem is the parents of this generation being too lazy or too busy to instil good manners and work ethic in thier kids.
My wife and I were out for dinner awhile ago and saw a 10-12 year old boy quietly reading a book, a real book!, not a comic or magazine. When the waitress came by he put the book down and ordered his dinner, said thank you. A rare sighting indeed. I thought it would be interesting to see how he turns out in 10 more years. There is a few good ones out there, but rare as hens teeth.
I can relate to the kid. I was the same way up until my early 20's. I simply lacked some social skills and suffered from social anxiety. New or unfamiliar situations would throw me for a loop and I wouldn't know how to react, so I'd just sit quietly and hope no one would bother me.
Sounds like you have found a good one. I wouldn’t worry about him burying himself in his phone. It can be an intimidating situation for a youngster. You’re his boss and and his bosses wife and I’m assuming old enough to be his parents, small talk was probably too much for him. He was polite to your wife and then as he was on a break did what a lot of people do, looked at his phone to avoid any difficult conversation. Graham
Ohhh boy I love this topic. Just read all the posts. Look guys, I'm 28. I must have grown up in the wrong decade, or millennium, because I agree with all that I've read here. Here's my take. As mentioned before, there wasn't a damn wink of education or guidance on budgeting or financial smarts. It wasn't until my wife and I got married 3 years ago that our pastor that was officiating our wedding met with us 6 times to teach us his thoughts on a long lasting happy marriage. One of those meetings was dedicated to budgeting and being smart with your money. After we were done, I couldn't believe I was never taught that s*** growing up. I think that could help this generation a ton. It's not about getting the highest paying job so you can get the most exspensive truck, that just leads you back to $0. It's about looking forward... which no one does anymore. Learned a lot that day. There's a hell of a lot wrong with the schools I think too. We have a 1 year old, and boy I'm worried about puttting her through 12 years of public school. But it's up to us as well to make sure she knows right and wrong, smart and stupid. As far as the skilled worker shortage... college is drilled into us, like others have already said. "Cant get anywhere without a degree"... I can't even count the amount of people i know that did the 4 year deal, couldn't find a job, moved back home, expect a damn handout. I'm not sure what the source of the problem is, but I know a lot of guys that cannot find good help. There are a handful of my buddies that have a good work ethic, worked hard out of high school, put in their time, have good jobs, good lives... there's hope, but the majority of people my age ******* suck. All about Facebook and twitter blah blah. Pisses me off. Go sit at a mall or a grocery store, everyone's walking around with their heads down faces buried in their phones making sure they're up to date on the newest BS post or picture. It's all insecurities. "Oh she has that and I don't, oh no, I'm not as cool, I better catch up..." that's our world fellas. That what kids my age and younger are all worried about... that's it. **** being a productive person, let alone working for your POS trucking company, they say. Why the hell would they drive your truck when they can get a 80k job doing something that allows them to look at their phone all day???? Come on guys. You expect them to wrench or weld or operate equipment or trucks??? HA. Now I'm getting worked up. I went from working a family owned farming business, to working for the largest Utility company Around... I cannot believe the S*** this company does. Whether it's hiring unqualified idiots based on ethnicity or degree, or choosing to buy new parts at 10x the cost of rebuilding. It's the way we are now. No one wants to be patient and wait, even if it costs more. What I'm getting at is these are the companies that run s***. They have idiots up high in management making decisions about stuff they have no business doing. I cannot wait to leave that place... problem is they pay way too good. I find that all the guys I work with Just flat out don't care. Don't care about quality of work, don't care about state of the company that pays them, don't care about being decent, don't care about coworkers. I want to start my own business one day, but i sure worry if that would be smart because I don't think working hard or caring gets you anywhere anymore. Does it?? Question to your original question. why would an entitled iPhone slinging, bad haircut having, skinny jeans wearing mellenium want to show up to your trucking business, or equipment business, or construction business, and give a god damn about working hard for you when he can skate away and hop on the easy train? Make more money for a corporation or wherever. Why do you think immigrants are thriving? legal or not. We had it way too easy from year one. I had it way too easy. Skated through school. No one made it hard on us. I'd be one of those Bieber wannabe's if I didn't have my own personal goals and standards. Starts from the top just like poorly ran corporations. "Come work 10 times harder for me, just because" hahaha, get what tim saying guys? These kids are hopeless. Look at YOUR generations for the blame! (Oh I'm gonna hear about that last comment) now just for clarity, you guys here obviously have different values and sounds like you've raised productive and functioning human beings. I think guys like us in this thread are the exception. I'm mostly disgusted to be a part of this generation. This turned into a rant, I better stop. It's probably not making sense, but I'm not done with this topic....
This will probably **** off some on here but it's my Generation {Boomers} that raised these kids. Boomers are mostly responsible for the mess. One comment I've heard over and over from boomers is {I just want my kid to have better than I had}. What was it that boomers had that was so bad?--Nothing. Truck Shop
I've read and heard the same thing. I think it's a combination of that and the timing of our nations growth, technology etc. It's a constant uphill battle to raise good kids these days. We have rules for phones and my girls do not like them. They'll thank me someday, I hope! WCR73, don't be too concerned about public school. It's not all bad, stay active and ask questions and you'll be able to counteract what you don't like. I'm an old hand by now, my 5th starts public school next year .
Junkyard, yea I'm not that worried, because my wife and I will be very involved and will give a s*** about raising decent kids. I'm not all doom and gloom, I swear. We still live in a place that gives us a fighting chance to live a pretty damn good life.... compared to other places. I think a lot of people forget that. Again, most idiots my age do especially. This worker shortage will fill up someday, but like it was said previously, who knows what the work force then will be like... the word "yikes" comes to mind. ..... screwed up the reply
My parents were depression and WWI generation who said they wanted it better for their kids than they had it. I never said that to my kids and don't recall anyone in the boomer generation saying to theirs either. I believe my parents had a right to say and do anything they wanted having come through so many desperate times. I also believe it put a toughness in them that seems to be lacking in many of the subsequent generations. It seems a trial by fire is what makes a nation great.
WWII shaped this nation in so many ways. Mostly good. Can you imagine today's snowflakes dealing with rationing? Holy **** man they'd have a meltdown. When my grandma died we were cleaning up and sorting things. Found books of ration stamps from the 40's. Think about how this country pulled together back then. Very inspiring. I wish there was a way to instill that these days without a global conflict and millions dead.
I believe our current generations would do fine if pressed against the wall the way the greatest generation was. Remember we still have solders, airmen and sailors all over the world and this nation is still the largest producer of things and wealth the world has ever known. The callouses will return to the hands when the work loads require it.
i dont think its anyone faults for any generation being any way because every generation has had its interesting times now its a technology another generation it was getting high then there was moonshine every generation has a problem. I don't see much of a worker shortage around my area do wish the construction companies around me was hiring more but other then that a lot of place are full minus the common fast food and grocery stores and some auto dealerships
I'm going to toss this out there to chew on..... Where I live nearly all of the construction/excavating companies grew from former farms. The fields became too valuable to continue farming and have turned into housing developments. Many of the farms also sat on huge veins of bank run gravel. So the farmers began digging and trucking. Nearly all of the employees were former farm boys used to hard work and running machinery. Anyone 20 years younger than me more than likely does not have that experience as nearly all the farms were gone by that time and these companies now draw from the general public without any of the work ethic or machine experience.
I can only speak to where I live(s. Ohio n. Kentucky w. Wva area) so here we go. There has been no reason for young people to enter the trades because of few openings and low pay rates. The companies that survived the last 10 years of recession were by nature bearish and frugal. They had a adequate pool to choose from, because of company closures, and all was well. This is not a sustainable situation however, as new blood must be introduced to fill in for retirement and death. I hear from business owners a lot who say they cannot get good help anymore, well when the pay meets the job expectations you will have people to choose from. Many young folks went to college to ride the storm out, not knowing that the downturn would last this long, and graduated with a degree they can’t use. The free market will correct itself eventually, the pay will slowly creep up so businesses will be competitive with each other, and then young folks will take the work seriously. This however may take a little time as many companies are accustomed to the ways of the last 10 years and will only grudgingly go along. I believe it will get better, just be patient.
I agree it'll get better over time, how long is anybody's guess. Might be just right for my oldest boy to start working. Hard to say. It's a good lesson for us all if we can remember it should it occur again.....
Oh, it will occur again & my guess is somewhere between 34-48 months from now.
Hopefully not sooner.
It's not all of them I found. I did some fill-in-when-someone-is-off work last summer for a friend that has trouble finding good employees (bottom of the barrel if I'm your go-to guy), but the young operators/laborers/drivers on the job (not all his) were pretty impressive. Skilled, took pride, hard working, thermoses (what?), the main course for dinner had parents, and looked forward to the end of the day to head to the local watering hole to chase loose women. They were a riot to listen to on the CB. There was a neck beard slacker flagger on that job and they were relentless heckling the guy.
pay for laborers here is 10 dollars an hour for the bigger companies but the small companies seem to like to pay 8 an hour Walmart pays 9 so if that tells anyone anything
millennials dont work like previous generations because they have not had to and no one taught them how to.
Now that I am on my own I try to schedule work so it is not in bad conditions. But I spent a lot of years in the fire service in all kinds of conditions. So if I have to work in the middle of the night or in the rain or heat or miss a meal or work while sickk I can draw on my past experience and it doesn't seem so bad. Especially when it only happens once in a while. Nothing I do now stinks as bad as lugging that large chain saw all over the woods on a goat trail. Or being woken up at 3am to drag somebody up a bank from a smashed car. It is all a matter of perspective so having a rough job early in your career can help you appreciate when you have it better later in life. Of course the toughest old guys like my grandpa who walked from Normandy to Berlin and could sleep while marching. And lived through the depression before that. Any day they woke up alive in their own bed was better than waking up in the mud in France or Germany. Fortunately or unfortunately we can't provide that experience for the new generation. But encouraging them to get a real tough job for a while can be helpful. Also the OT in those kinds of jobs can help them build a nest egg, I was always working and never had time to spend any money so I was able to save a lot. And I did not learn to work hard because I was so great myself, I was in the company of a bunch of other gung ho kids and we had gung ho leaders pushing us on and that can make one work harder than you ever thought possible.
I can relate to this. When I was in college I used to install pumps and water treatment equipment. Some of the pumps I had to work on were septic/sewage pumps. Unfortunately, those pumps are usually in holes filled with grey water. On larger pits, sometimes grey water would come flowing in as I am trying to unhook the bad pump. Gross enough on its own. Certain evenings, work went late which left no time to shower before returning to night classes at college. Doesn't get much worse than changing into clean clothes, no time for a shower. knowing you probably have another person's waste on you, and having to sit in class for 3 hours. No matter how bad a day I have at work now.... Its never that bad. And I earn a significantly better salary now. I made $8.50/hr and a take home service truck back then, that was 12 years ago now. I made zero friends while attending Community College........
Theres definitely two sides to this...Ive watched a lot of really good workers head down the road because of horrible bosses, and companies not wanting to pay decent.
Definitely relate to that point. Bosses can be like bad underwear, creep up on then irritate the **** out of you!! I have had a few like that, left a few jobs due to that in my day to the point did NOT have another job aligned and left anyway. Was only off work the longest time for 22 days.
This is an adult problem rather than a kid problem. They learn what we teach them. It's a many faceted issue. - "Kids are lazy"..... I don't believe human nature changed in one generation but I think ease of life has. First, many youth never have a real job until they have a degree and are in their early to mid-20's. It would be like training a 7 year old dog. Work ethic is learned at an early age. - Government assistance... I had a discussion the other day with a young chap who was convinced that government should provide healthcare, college education and at least minimum wage. His justification was that there are no opportunities out there. He never has worked and didn't want to start out flipping burgers or mowing lawns like he should have been doing in his teens. I told him that the opportunity to succeed has never been so good. All you have to be is above average and you will be prosper. At the rate things are going, that average is dropping like a rock. - Education... Our education system turns it's nose at manual labor. College prep classes have replaced shop class. Our youth don't even have the chance to learn a trade using their hands. They have convinced our youth that a 'grease monkey" is a disgraceful occupation so they need a degree even if it means unemployment. I have hired a lot of people over the years. I always wanted experience or some sort of willingness to learn over a degree. A liberal arts or similar degree only meant that that person lived on the tit for at least four years while adding nothing productive to society. My $0.02
At some point, the country forgot that it needs us
The larger the pool of potential supervisors to promote, the more likely you'll get a lemon. Positions of authority are sought out by psychopaths, or those who have some of those tendencies. If you work for a small company, the likelihood of one of the top guys being a psychopath is less probable. If you work for a large company, the likelihood of a psychopath working his way into a supervisory position is more probable because the pool of applicants is larger. Now apply the same principle to police departments and other governmental agencies and it will help you understand why we're so screwed.
if this tells you anything about colleges when I went and toured Nc state I think there was a girl they picked randomly to tell us what her degree was and she said it was in happiness that was her whole degree four years for a piece of paper with that at your degree
I know what you mean , hope you're kid will be more serious . And not move to New York City . ....
When 99% of the teachers and professors have never held a job in the real world how can they teach? A bunch of folks in our community fought hard to keep our shop class in our new school. It is there but we carried enough referendum votes that they dared not eliminate it. It also got opened up for adult education in the evenings a couple nights a week. I expect we will fight this battle again in the future. I still visit with my shop, metal working, and electronic class teachers. All in their 80s now, they are really disappointed in the current teaching system. Programing kids instead of teaching them to think and figure things out.
That's what indoctrination camps are for! Memorization, repetition and social engineering are on the agenda and those are the qualifications of teachers. Teach classes in transgender sensitivity and they will be ready for a brave new world.
Local small trucking company just hired this old retiree for a slip seat operator position with the owner in his own truck. He wants a few days less time in the seat for other necessities I was just looking for away from the house time. He stated of all the applicants he feels he can trust me. No one under 45 could even shift the truck and the ones that could drive forward could not handle backing up. Hauling grain and fertilizer in end dump local short hauls. 18 years OUT of the saddle and still got the feel back pretty easy.
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The new office:
I don't think I can disagree with any of the points made here, especially the one about the farmers kids. Growing up, I nor any of my friends came from farms, but I as a young boy I did spend a lot of my school holidays staying at a family friends dairy farm. As I got older, I'd spend the odd weekend and holidays working with my builder uncle, performing labouring duties as best as I could. Looking back, that's probably what started off my work ethic. Of course, in these days of H&S, you can't take kids on building sites, or take them with you when you're truck driving, and you certainly can't let them loose on the big saws or the tractors, which is a damn shame.
if it makes yall feel any better I was going through some of my old college books getting ready to sell them when I open the math book and I landed on all the information saying how much you will make going to college it was in the first few pages so you could imagine that a starting class putting that in your head makes you think your on the money path
The propaganda starts early on College campus. Seems to me it infiltrated every course I ever sat in.
DMiller, Be careful. I retired from a different career but, as I’d driven as casual through the years, stopped at local company asking if they needed part-time driver. Now I have an assigned tractor and the only days I don’t drive are when I’m sitting grandson! Company has nice rigs, lots of ponies...I just hate the traffic! Looks like you have a nice ride, too! Darryl
Thanks, I intend to stay out more than in the rig. The owner said still enjoys driving so will be sharing weeks at least until he gets too busy. Gets too demanding will just make the decision I need to then either go full time or let them know not staying and await the next guy in line to take over. Old '97 has a million on it, still drives well just a lot of cab outside air leaks, has straight pipes on it so loud as hell but not unbearable. Will do for the time being, always keeping options open. Has 12513 I believe, shifts fine where really do not need all the splits. 3406E is set up, supposedly making 5-520hp, feels like it, pyrometer is iffy so not hammering it too hard.
Finally crawled under to just look things over, 16713 E/F tranny in it. Seems light for the application.
Some E models were only 1650 TQ. Just don't drive it like a dragster! Haha
My younger sister went to college for a couple years. The stories she told me about her "professors" were mind blowing. Most of them had less intelligence and intellect than a bag of sand.
How’s that go: “those who can, do....” Darryl
I tell my kids that very quote often. Especially the teenage girls and the stuff they bring home from "school"
The old monster likes shifting up around 1550, down from around 1100, easy to operate.
I got a sign of good luck and took math last because I wanted to avoid that since it had been about 3 years since the last math class I took
Try being out of school twenty and being handed advanced algebra in a test quiz as you start a class for power station operator!! That was where I was in 1997.
Personally I look at it this way with today's loss of talent especially when it comes to today's drivers. I have been known to yell out when a new driver is letting the clutch out with the cab bouncing up and down leaving the shop the phrase used at the Pendleton Round Up-Rodeo. { LET 'ER BUCK }. Knowing I will be replacing a gear box or clutch or rear drive before long. Job security. Truck Shop
I don't do math for 3 years before I got to that class I got there and they had a practice test to see who needs help with what and all I can say is I did not plan on making higher then a C in that class
I always heard if you cant find it grind it