hi. I have a 1993 case 9030 with an ultimate 56 head for processing wood. It started to loose power when i use any function it will stall. I changed the fuel filters and the inline filter,I blew out the lines and replaced the lift pump.It still dosent have any power.It starts good and dosent miss.It dosent seem to rev out like it did before this happened. I'm wondering if the injector pump is bad.and how could i be sure. it acts like the govenor isent working. I would appricate if someone could help.Treecutter
Check. filter and pipes, governor motor, turbo pressure, fuel pressure, compression. Then move to hydraulics. Rexroth or KYB pump?
The injector pump has the 6 lines comming out the back.would the banjo bolt cause my low power problem. how much psi should i have fron lift pump?
Yes, a clogged banjo bolt will do that. I assume you have an inline injection pump of Japanese origin? the banjo bolt is pointing straight down on the first place the fuel comes to from the tank, the transfer pump, then the fuel is pushed out to the filter, back to the injection pump "main body", and then out to the injectors, and a return to the tank also. So if you can identify the line coming from the tank, or the transfer pump (has the manual primer that unscrews and pops up), then you can imagine where the banjo bolt is. Take that bolt out and check inside the end of the bolt, there's a tiny screen screwed inside that bolt without much room for debris obviously. blow the junk off and put it back together. I don't know the PSI, but it should stay stable or go up with increased speed, NOT drop to nothing with heavy load. Find the banjo bolt first.
Never messed with 9030, only with 9010 and 9060. Both had Bosch VE30/32 pumps as far as I remember. It was about 8 years ago. Need to consult with manual or Pumpguysc, but as far as I remember should be around 15psi.
Thanks I will try the banjo bolt tomorrow and hope it works.will let you know. thanks again for info. treecutter
I lost a turbo on my 9020B, low power, would smoke pretty bad.
never mind on the banjo bolt in that case... First, does the engine slow down as you lose power? Second, does the engine smoke when you lose power? third, how about pump numbers, or a picture for thepumpguy? He might not know any better than I do what injection pump is in that thing.
Picture worth of thousand words! You never know what can be in there, old equipment, repowered, repumped, molested and mutilated.
First thing I think i would do is check the governor motor.
There is usually a strainer mounted on the side of the fuel tank towards the cab and swing reducer. A lot of people pull the glass jar out and lose the rubber O ring that seals the glass jar to the filter head. It sucks air at that point and you get no power out. Other items to check might be the output on the alternator wires. One of those wires used to feed frequency information into the computer.
Don’t forget about tank vent.
I sent pictures of pump.where is the govenor motor.It acts like when i want power the govenor dosent work. treecutter
As far as I remember governor motor is in the pump compartment behind pilot pressure filter and accumulator, when you open the door ( rear right ) it’s on the left, deeper inside behind filter and ball looking accumulator, you can also trace it from the cable you can see on the picture, the motor is the one what pulls that cable.
The banjo bolt on top to the left of shutdown solenoid may have overflow valve in it ( not sure, got to check manual or talk to pumpguysc) if it is not closing properly it can cause low fuel pressure.
Just pull the lever which the cable connected to and see if engine will rev. Up more. But even if it will in neutral - doesn’t mean you will have power! I’ve seen it couple of times when excavators without bottom panels go over branches and branche lifts up and rippes the wires that go to governor motor.
Is that a coolant temperature sensor missing the wire on the picture? Or that’s a glow plug? I think glow plugs is on the top of the head, not on the side, can’t remember
I am going to check it out today. It reves up when i turn the trottle control in cab but won't maintain speed under load. is that the job of the govenor control. treecutter
THATS a VE pump. Push the pedal down & MAKE SURE its getting FULL travel & hitting the stop screw.. BOTH in Neutral & under power..{when u lose rpms} Other than not getting full travel, it might be fuel supply pressure, debris in the banjo connectors at the filter head or any # of things..
There is a self check mode available for that machine. By lifting small access panel behind radio you can access engine rpm, throttle motor position etc. The throttle motor that others are describing to you is simply an electrical stepping motor that strokes your throttle cable to prescribed amount. The governor is inside injection pump. Probably best to check fuel pressure at pump (bleeder screw on fuel filter) should be 5 to 7 lbs. and turbo boost 10 to 15 lbs. You have to eliminate fuel supply problems and turbo boost problems before any more tests can be done. Could email you with procedure for using the self check mode if required
I took the banjo fitting out and cleaned it. it dident have anything in it. it has a screen and i can blow through it and out the small orface on the side.I'm wondering if the injector pump has an internal govenor that stopped working. the motor starts and runs smooth from idle to wide open and the throttle motor moves the rod from idle to wide open but when i try to use a function that requires power from hyd pump the motor looses rpm and stalls. It has me baffled treecutter
What is your fuel pressure?
The governor failing is much less likely than a restricted fuel supply, but first it would be helpful to know where to start with those questions.
Good question about black smoke! Does it smoke when it boggs down?
I’ll post this just for the giggles!
the engine slowes down when i try to do something that requires power.It smokes a little but not a lot. I took the air filter out but no difference i took the air hose off the turdo but no difference.I took the supply hose to fuel pump off and hooked it to a gal can of fuel with a new hose and no difference.I took the line that goes from fuel pump to filters and the line from filters to injector pump off and blew them out I also blew out all the places that might have a plug of somthing.When i work the hand pump on fuel pump to bleed air out i get a good flow of fuel to injector pump.The motor starts good idles and revs up ok but when i ask for power like to move machine or do other functions the rpm drops and engine stalls. I thought it might be the govenor inside the injector pump. I dont know what else it could be. I was working the machine and it was running great and then it lost power andnever came back treecutter
I would check the fuel pressure but where do i connect the pressure guage treecutter
Try this: take the governor motor cable off, put the bunjy cord on the accelerator lever right where the cable connects, hook on something to hold at full RPMs, and try functions. You can tee in fuel line right before injection pump to connect your gauge.
If my memory serves me right, there’s should be two toggle switches either under the small flip cover in right arm rest, or right at the back end of arm rest. One of them should be hydraulic bypass/backup switch. Try to switch it and see if anything changed. But because you don’t have much black smoke - I doubt it.
how much pressure should i have at the injector pump inlet from manual fuel pump.what if i hooked an electric pump for extra fuel pressure treecutter
TravelingTech said 5-7 pounds, there is small vane pump inside of injection pump also, the question is weather the overflow valve keeps required pressure.
thanks i'll try a pressure test treecutter
I have paperback manual for the whole 90 series, but I’m 2 days of drive from my place. So for more precise information someone else would have to help you until I get there.
Another little off topic thing: I already asked you about what pump you have in that machine. There was a reason why I did asked that question. KYB stopped making those pumps long time ago, and I’m not aware of anybody who rebuilds or even have parts for it! So if it is KYB, you might be better off by getting rid of this machine! Re pump the machine with out the core can be very expensive!
well i found out the injector pump is a bosch ve. ihave checked fuel pressure and have 7 lbs at bleeder before injector pump. i talked to case mechanic. he thinks the govenor isent working.I've stopped for season so will work on it later.thanks for all the imput i will stay in touch with progress made.treecutter
well I have had no luck yet with my bosch ve injector pump. i checked the govenor spring and all looked well. from what i have read there may be a problem with the pressure regulator in the pump causing low internal pressure ,maybe a bad o ring.what i would like to know is if i take the pressure regulator out would anything fall in the pump,and where can i check the internal pressure and how much should it be .i saw on one site they checked it at the banjo fitting. treecutter
If your talking about the actual pressure regulator?? it takes a special tool to remove BUT, u might be able to use a 10mm wrench.?? & nothing is supposed to fall out.. the guts are held in by a retainer.. BUT, the retainer has a tendency to fall out.. The "internal pressure" IS checked at the return banjo bolt w/ a special fitting. The pressure is dependant on RPMS & differs between pumps.. U have to get the calibration specs for your exact pump..
I took the pressure regulator out and when i shake it i can hear the plunger move. shouldent it be held tight by spring? I can push the plunger against the spring and it moves but when i release it its a little loose when i shake it. treecutter
I drove the plunger down just enough to take up the slack.I put it back in pump and now i have lots of power but i am concerned it might have too much pressure.I would like to take the regulator apart to see if the spring is broken but need more info on how to do it. treecutter
WOW.. u got some big ones.!!! The regulator comes apart thru the bottom.. ..theres a tool that pushes thru & expands & u pull the "spring-clip" out. What u did is> increased the pressure to advance the internal pump timing..
but without increasing the internal pump pressure i have no power. the loss of engine power hapened all at once and after i tried everything else with no luck the fuel pressure regulator was the next step and after changing the tension the motor has lots of power. I am wondering if i can buy a new spring or replace the pressure regulator and check the pressure at banjo bolt i would not over fuel. does anyone know the pressure i should have at different rpms treecutter
U can not buy a spring.. The pres. regul. comes as an assembly.. U have to have the pump # inorder to get the specs.. The # is on the "flat spot" on the pump housing.. where the housing meets the "head".. {aluminum to steel} U CAN back off the tension by knocking the piston w/ a punch & hammer from the bottom towards the top.
I found a new regulator on line for $60 .I wonder if it would solve my pressure problem without doing a pressure test on pump. treecutter
raising the internal pressure could seize the pump or blow out the front seal.. I coulda told u how to turn the fuel up.. Like I said, all u did was advance the internal timing.. the fuel is injecting sooner.. just like advancing the distributor on a gas engine.
The regulators come.."not adjusted" & will run like **** w/o adjusting it..
Unless u can give us/me a PUMP #... AND ...figure out a way to take a pressure reading.. Lets face it.. u screwed-up.. .. the pressure reading is taken BEFORE the overflow valve.{return connector/ banjo bolt}
my pump has 1L 137 and below 55and looks like a 4 . Are you saying that all i'm doing by rasing internal pressure is advancing the timing? I was under the impression that the govenor wouldent work with low pressure.I would have to have a longer banjo bolt to add a test guage.do i increase the fuel to pump by adjusting the bolt on top cover. treecutter
On TOP of the cover is a hi idle screw, a low idle screw.. On the BACK of the top cover is the fuel screw.. 12-14mm lock screw w/a screwdriver slot adjustment. U can turn the screw "in">> NO MORE THAN 1/4 turn.. anything more & you'll melt the engine.!!!
thanks for your support. I plan on removing pressure regulator and setting to low pressure, then reinstalling it with a psi gauge before the banjo bolt.and adjusting to the correct pressure.i havent yet found out what psi i should have in pump at high speed. i read somewhere 15 psi .I don't want to blow seals. I checked the fuel delivery pump and it has almost 7 psi to injector pump. treecutter
7 psi is good TO the inj. pump.. I need some numbers I can work with, inorder to get u the "internal" transfer pump pressures..15 is wrong.
This is the numbers on my pump. do i set pressure at idle or full throttle. treecutter
ON THE SIDE of the pump
On the flat on the aluminum hsg.. just before the steel head.
The numbers were down on side. the only way was to stick my camera in and take a picture. i hope you can make it out. treecutter
PERFECT.. I'll be in touch
It'll be Monday before I can get the actual spec.. my home program isn't working. but I can tell u that the pressure is set at wide open throttle at "X" rpm.. its given in "bars"..but easily converted.
thats great. i will have to get a hook up to test by the banjo bolt. my banjo bolt has a screen in it and a small orfice out the side.it has a 303s and a 55 on the top. i could buy one with a hole tapped in top but it may not have the proper restriction,or maybe that wouldn't matter.I might be able to drill a hole and tap my bolt out but there must be an easier way. treecutter
The restriction DOES matter, that's your overflow valve & is important.. don't drill it.. We have a "tool" that the overflow valve screws into the top of & the pressure is taken BEFORE the valve.
Remove the settlement bowl at fuel tank and clean screen in it and check for trash in banjo bolts that connect lines to bowl. The 90 series machines were bad about trash getting in these bolts.
Here are the internal transfer pump pressures if u get a hook-up>> 1000 rpm> 4.6-5.2 bar {I like to shoot for the highest reading} 750rpm> 3.6-4.2 bar 500rpm> 2.6-3.2 bar The set point is at 750 rpm & the others will/should fall in.. Good luck..
Pumpguy, are those pump rpm or engine rpm?
DAMMIT.. Good call Delmer.. I guess it was TOO EARLY.. those are pump RPM's.. so DOUBLE it when using the machines tach..
Well I think I may have had some sucess with my injector pump. I started with too low pressure on regulator and had to increase it to get the motor to start and run. I set to correct pressure and it seems to be working ok.I want to say thanks for all the feedback for without it life would be a lot harder. treecutter.
back again. Just wondering if i should check the timing after setting the pressure regulator.and does all the bosch ve pumps on a 5.9 cummins have the same setting. treecutter
IDK HOW u would check the timing.?? Its done off the advance side of the inj. pump w/ a special tool to set the pump advance & set w/ shims.. IF your talking about the static engine timing.. same thing.. special tool in the end of the pump. Engine at TDC & pump lift @ "X" mm.. IF it aint broke, don't fix it..
My first time setting static timing was back in Ukraine in mid 90’s! I used piece of bicycle spock to extend the dial indicator leg, and my uncle ( god rest his sole ) was a lathe machinist and turned and threaded the adapter for me!!! It took around 20 tries to go from T to 0 on Volkswagen engine for unexperienced me to get it right! I think the timing belt was old and stretchy so every time I would recheck it would be a little off!
Lol.. Sounds like me.. 1x out in the field I was asked to figure out the timing for a fella that pulled his pump w/o timing & locking the drive.. I wasnt prepared to work on THAT MACHINE so I didn't have my tools.. I used a magnetic stand w/ a dial indicator & a nail while the customer held the pump steady on the bench.. & naturally the dial indicator was in thousands & the spec was in mm.. {before cell phones & no computer available for conversion}..Lol..
my motor runs ok but it is noisier than it used to be.I was wondering if a piece of the pressure regulator spring could have got broken or weak.i thought that i shouldent be able to shake the valve and move bottom plunger back and forth against the spring. i could order a new relief valve and reset the pressures again if it would make a difference. or maybe just turn the radio up.treecutter
what does the bottom numbers 567 317929 and 23025 on my injector pump tag mean treecutter
Pump manuf. date & serial #..
well i'm back. i bought a motor from a case 9030 that the timing pin had went in the gears. i put the injector pump on my machine. it started and ran ok but when using the hydraulics it would bog down. i replaced the two rear injectors and the lift pump. i had checked the old lift pump and it only had 3 psi, the lift pump i put on has 8 psi.i checked the pressure of the injector pump and it has 60 psi @750 rpm.the motor starts and runs ok but under load it stalls.I bought a new bosch ve pump but i dident want to use it if thats not the problem.I used the machine to cut wood all winter and it worked fine until the last day when it lost power. any sugestions? treecutter.
Like some have said already check the banjo bolts at the settlement bowl mounted on tank and check the screen in the settlement bowl. Make sure the inline fuel filter is the screen type and not paper type. Also check for trash like leaves and such in fuel tank.