I was just thinking and thought I'd ask for some feedback on an idea. I'm pretty sure many of us here visit machinery trader and some of us shop there too. Well, what I was thinking was it would be nice to have some sort of rating system of the sellers from purchasers. By this I'm thinking only ratings from people who have actually purchased from said seller and not just people who missed a deal and are upset. Also giving the seller a chance to respond to any grievance against him. They do have a line were they state when and if they have visited the sellers site, but that gives no credit to the sellers character or business practices. I saw something along this line I think it was on uship.com and found it very helpful and informative. The thought behind this idea is this is most purchases from MT aren't likely to be small write off amounts for many of us. In my case a bad deal could be devastating and possibly end my need for there services along with the desire to visit here as well. I realise some of the sellers wouldn't like the idea much as I notice a lot of brokering ( don't use the same images as the other fella and price differantly )and also 2 and 3 year old pics ( turn the date stamp off on your camera when taking pics ) of machines for sale. I noticed 3 sellers of the same item. Two in the following link are easy to tell. the third is different set of pics after a rain, but notice the tree line, the shop, parking lot material, and dirt on the bucket. ( note 2 listings have dropped of this page in the past week or two so they may no longer be listed when veiwing ). http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/list.aspx?ETID=1&catid=1034&Manu=MENZI+MUCK I have nothing against brokering, but I personally don't wanna pay any more than I have to for anything. How ever 150k to 180k is a lot of differance to me. I also figured out another trick there that I use every time I search ( daily ). I don't care to see the call for price listings. I assume out of the gate they are over priced and move on so I use the search feature and search for items 1 dollar and up or to a limit I'll spend. From time to time the search feature omits a machine or two, but to make life simpler on me I can live with that. What I didn't find didn't hurt me any. As far as pics go I prefer pics within a month of the listing of said item. I realise some people may not have there dates set correctly, but it surely makes you wonder are these pics of when you bought it way back then or are they what you're trying to sell at this present time? The brokering and old pictures really makes me want to not even look around MT, but at present they have the largest listing of items I have found. I like ironplanet as they do reviews of equipment, but if it's close enough to me I'd like to put my hands on it. Also haven't narrowed down a search that i like yet there. And bidding is time consuming. I'm not real comfortable placing a bid early and then run shy on time when auctions are active. I already emailed MT about the idea and thought I'd ask for some feedback here to see what everyone else thought.
Sounds good to me.But the ones that only sell one machine will not get rated.But it might weed out some of the crooked dealers of used junk.I see what you mean by the photos.I think its very strange for two sellers in different States to have the exact same photo.
expensive little machines I guess it is buyer beware and if I was spending a ton of money I would need to go there or get a survey after asking seller a ton of questions. I would want them back in writing from the seller.
One of the above mentioned brokers doesn't seem to even know much about equipment or has serious typo errors one. I had come across a listing on a dozer that was a 2000's and it was listed as a 1970's. Which says to me trying to make a quick buck not even a legitimate broker. More like find other peoples ads and copy them and just middle man a deal for a profit. I know cat does consignments and sure other deals do too, but there at least you get a little knowledge with the middleman. I recon my main deal with it is I hate wasted time almost as much as wasted money! I would also think the legitimtate sellers would imbrace the idea as it would lead more customers to them and away from the bad apples. Well in this situation they do not likely have the have visited sellers loctation that MT has now. There are some up sides and down sides to any idea. My thinking is geared more towards the advertisers who in my opinion ruin a good site. I'll give credit to MT in some aspects they do attempt to maintane a good site I've had issue with the site once and the responded rather quickly and corrected the issue I think. The issue was an attachment vendor flooding the equipment listings with attachments. That was how I figured out the search for 1 in minimum price. The vendor did the call for pricing thing so alowed me to bypass those listings. Things like that annoy the fire outa me. I'd spend twice as much elsewhere to not deal with someone who has cheated or annoyed me in the past.
I don't believe either price is way out of line if the machine is in good shape and been well maintained. In an expenditure of that size for sure cover all the bases and then some. I was recently looking at a trackhoe in MA which is 18 hours from me. I'm not a big fan of planes ( well heights acually nothing against planes ). The time I spent trying to get the questions answered and requesting oil samples I was beat to the punch by a day. Went threw this scenario twice being beat by a day and it happens no big deal. If I knew more about the dealer and the carcter of the dealer I'd be more inclined to purchase faster from a distance. Same as the people we work for. Some call and ask us to do something and we jump at it not worring about when and how we'll get payed others call and we want more that a verbal agreament.
Dealer or not its easy to hide leaks with a good wash off w/degreaser.
No doubt a little cleaning or paint can do miracles. If said company sold 100 peices a year and only had one or two bad complaints wouldn't you have more faith in dealing with them than the one that sold the same and only had one or two good reports? Every deal some one who is acually moving some equipment does isn't going to be perfect. I've purchased brand new items that were bigger junk than 10 years old. But as a sales person they learn to tell you what you wanna hear to make the sell. If you're not putting a micometer on something % of what life is left isn't the same in everyones eyes. Just as hours on a machine don't mean the same amount of wear from one machine to the next. We all work in differant materials and situations. A company I sub to some was doing a job last year and they were putting teeth on a hoe every week. A friend of mine I work with a lot locally does teeth maybe once every 2 to 3 years although he doesn't work his as hard and it isn't as large as the other machine. Example I'll run my personal vehicle tires till they are racing slicks and then some. I have a friend who replaces his tires when they are about 3/4 warn. I'd get another two years out of those tires baring any punchers if they'd fit my truck. Work vehicles are a hole different story though as a flat cost me more than just my time they never get to the slick status.
So who are you thinking is going to do the rating service? Machinery Trader is an independent advertising company. They have nothing to do with machines. They also don't care to any effect if a deal goes bad. You make an ad on your own, you contract with MT to put it in their rag, that's it. That they track all the auctions and provide a free of charge data base of the industry retail markets is more than anyone should expect. It is actually pretty common to have pirates ripping off your photos and then putting them up as their iron. Again Machinery Trader doesn't care who owns the machine, only who is going to pay for the ad. It probably works the same for Rock and Dirt and My Little Salesman. If you have the time why don't you identify pirate ads when you see them and then post them.
It would be nice if MT did along with the other respective sites. I like the site just a few negatives to it as mentioned above. Maybe they don't care past the all mighty dollar, but maybe they do a little. I'd think the better quality the site the more profitable. I'm sure it's very comon. I've noticed a trackhoe across more than one site including ironplanet which isn't very cheap to place on. For the most part I don't have the time and hoping some future purchases will take up what free time I have now. Even if I did my search fields wouldn't be enough hard to be of much use to very many people.
Machinery Trader is a very reputable company. I have been a member of their parts network for years. They flew in to meet with me and have always been extremely helpful and professional. The problem is that there are many crooks in this market. I am very careful who I deal with and many times I will go to see a machine if I am serious about the purchase. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "yeah it's a real good runner" to find out it's an overpriced piece of junk. I would prefer MT stay the same. Rating systems aren't 100%. I have been unhappy with some of my machine purchases, but I would not want to rate the seller. This business is a lot of brokering and who you know, and what they have. Most salesman don't know a whole lot about the machines they are selling. My greatest advice would be buyer beware! You can always send a specialist to run samples and check the machine you are buying. It's worth it when you are spending that type of money. If a company won't let you do that stay away. It's a good idea, but if it could hurt one good company due to a disgruntled consumer, it's not worth it.
Thanks for the input. That's why I brought it up here to get both sides of the idea instead of just my own thoughts. That's why I liked the one on uship the seller/provider was able to responde to complaints. It wasn't a rant back and forth just a one time reply from each party it apeared. You're in luck though got a responce. Here is the short version. I'm also cool with the responce. In the end it's there choice to to do what they like.
I'm cool with the idea as I frequently shop online for heavy equipment. Would love to get to know new names offering affordable used equipment trading .
I`m on machinery trader as well / and fast track. Mainly I buy parts USED / REBUILT / SURPLUS , and I have my inventory as well. What I noticed the most is that dealers post that they have parts , but in reality they do not have anything.All they do is buy parts from other guy who has it and sell it for more. I think your idea is good and they should have some kind of rating system.
e-bay does it and it caries weight in my bidding. I see no down side. and if it is a large figure then buyer should check out who they are giving there money to anyway.
I bit the bullet and picked up two peices off MT and so far so good. One even came from a Member on HEF as well.
I will pass on the ones that say call for price. I hate to call and talk to a salesman about machine to later find out it was out of my pricerange to start with. I just bought a JD 210 skip loader from a seller and failed to call all who stated, "call for price". I hope all dealers read this thread.
I take the call for price machines right out of my searching by just searching for machines priced at a minimum of 1 dollar. I'll add maximum amount a lot too to limit the machines out of my price range. I also search US only as shipping would price most machines out of my catagory. I often limit the days as well especially if I have serched recently to save time wading threw machines I've done seen. This also limits sold machines not removed fromt he list I think a little. One of the machines I purchased the add remained up for nearly three months. I do most of these to save time and agrivation. I have two choices for internet at home and they are dialup which would take nearly 3 minutes a page on HEF or my current sprint wireless internet card. Which at some point will eventually have the 5gb cap on it I assume.
There are many people who post things for sale on the internet just trying to get someone to send them a check. It's called fraud.
I have had good experiences as well as very frustrating experiences hooking up with sellers on line through various sites. Gone for some awfully long drives only to find out that I must be real fussy or have a huge misunderstanding of the term "great condition". Can't knock anybody for trying to hide or not disclose everything about the item they are selling, but I just don't understand why people don't just call it as it is when it comes to the obvious. I mean do they think the buyer is not going to notice the 20 track pads missing, the bent boom, the oval bushings and so on. If anything it repulses the prospective buyer even more. All he can do is wonder if this is what this seller thinks is good condition what did I not notice prior to my rapid exit from this piece of junk. But I will still keep checking out the usual sites when shopping or just checking out what the market are doing and will probably take a few more long drives to take a look and kick the tires of some piece of logging equipment and who knows...... We just get that equipment bug and that's it the is no turning back. By the way what happened to the My Little Salesman site the equipment for sale part seems to have vanished ?
http://www.mylittlesalesman.com/ http://www.mylittlesalesman.com/ForSale/Browse/1/Heavy_Equipment
Used a lot of sites to find and buy equipment off of or through, the thing that really ticks me off is when someone won't even return my inquiries about machines, and there are plenty out there that don't, or when they do they don't know they have that machine to sell or advertised at all. I'm a big believer in ironplanet, they offer me more to save me a lot of driving right up front by looking at their inspection reports, if your wanting to use ratings, I"ve got one even better yet, require them to have inspection reports done by an independant company on all machines for sale and forget the ratings idea, then you'd have something worth while to look at rather than someone's fantasy idea of whats a good machine or an undercarriage thats 80% life left in it, and save everyone a lot of headaches and chasing, and keep some of the absolute junk out of circulation, nobody would do an inspection on something nobody would ever buy to use, it would then be called a parts machine or salvage. As for the ratings idea, what will that really do for you? Tell you that persons done business with 500 people and only 25 got conned or lied to or had machines that were mispresented to them, how about having the machines rated or inspected and then you've only got to worry about negotiating the price with the seller and handling the paprerwork. I don't call or deal with anyone who won't let me come and look or pull samples on a machine or run the machine, if its on a lot then they can find someplace for me to run it, if not, we write down their name and don't ever call them again on any machine, thats how we weed out the junk dealers and those that are trying to hide something. I just bought a dozer this summer after looking at maybe 200 machines, the one we bought was advertised on machinerytrader and was brokered through a dealer by an individual, we were allowed to run the machine, pull samples and anything else we wanted to do, were given service records and all questions we had were answered, by either the owner or the seller, the seller was only as good the owner who knew about the machine and provided us with the information we wanted, otherwise he knew nothing at all about that perticular machine, so what would a rating system do for me on those situations? However an inspection report would have saved me from looking at maybe 175 problem machines in about 20 states and tens of thousands of miles of driving and time wasted to weed out the overpriced junk. You've got a nice idea your just looking at the wrong thing to rate, rate or inspect the machines, not the person who has the machines for sale, they are only a handler so to speak, and as for brokering of machines, thats a total bunch of bull, maybe the same dealership with 10 different yards can handle the same machine but the idea of having 5 different companies or jockies selling the same piece to see who can get is pawned off the fastest, not a good idea, those machines are generally junk anyhow from what I"ve seen of them, they are trying to find someone who can pawn that machine off before it goes for salvage or gets repossessed by the lender.
If I was to buy a machine from MT I would prefer flying there and inspecting the machne first before giving a down payment. I am a new member of HE but have purchased heavy equipment from companies and people around USA but never used equipment. I have some NEW CAT parts that I cannot used and I want to sell for a good price. if anyone is interested let me know.
Guys this is all very useful feedback for our own site (not machinerytrader) and we'll take it on board. many thanks
I believe We all have a gripe with MT lol
wow lots there alright Powerjoke! I've been on the site a few days and I emailed the main man who owns this forum - he must be fairly busy as he hasn't come back to me yet. i basically wanted to ask him if it was cool for me to post here - as you can see by my picture on the left, i'm with machineryzone.com. I'm assuming it is ok so i'll carry on asking questions i suppose. To be perfectly honest I'm trying to learn as much as I can about American machinery right now - and i've learned more on this forum from you guys than i have looking at hundreds of ad's online. It's tough going picking up on the different ins-and-outs though. We've just started hitting the American Market
This is an old thread but I'll put this on anyway. There are some very positive comments on here about MT. They are naive from my experience with them. I bought two excavators through them from China. My bad for not having had them checked out over there, but the seller, Juexin Machinery (Juexin Trading company--they go by several similar names) is so dishonest and misrepresenting, it's ridiculous. A machine advertised as having 950 hours actually had 2900+ on the hour meter; AC didn't work but was supposedly in "good working condition," etc. I could go on and on about the misrepresentation. I pointed all this out to MT and even talked to one of their customer service contacts. He, himself, saw that this company was advertising the same machine in Mexico as in China and that there were two different machines with the same serial number, different hours listed, etc. He said he would talk to the listing manager for MT. Two months later, MT is still advertising machines from this same company in China. So, yes, to someone's earlier comment. MT is only concerned with making money and has no concern for the buyer. MT is NOT reputable, unlike INDREM and others believe. Maybe back then but not now. I don't think they're any different from RB. The almighty dollar is their God.
Too bad you didn't read John C's post. Its just as true today as it was 14 years ago: Your problem has nothing to do with Machinery Trader. You thought you could save money, and got taken advantage by a chinese reseller. You get what you pay for. Machinery Trader makes no claims about anything sold through their site, just like Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. Its just a advertising location. And they are no different than Ritchie Bros, who are just a reseller of a different stripe. Its your job as a buyer to evaluate the equipment, and no one else's. If you can't evaluate the equipment, there are guys you can hire as a third party inspector. But neither RB or Machinery Trader are third party inspectors. It sounds like you got taken advantage of, and I understand you being upset, but I think your disappointment needs to be directed at the chinese reseller, and yourself for not knowing better. 30 years ago, you wouldn't blame a newspaper for a car you bought being a bad car, after you saw the ad in the classifieds. Machinery Trader is no different than a worldwide newspaper classified section.
This happens to me all the time. Never a call back, on craigslist as well. Why do they even bother to post it. Then there are the ones with some strange name that has a super low scammer price posted, I bet they would call back quick.
I said in my post that it was my bad for not being more thorough on the machines; however, I don't accept the idea that Machine Trader gets absolved of any responsibility because they're an advertiser only. Whether they like it or not, if they let a dishonest supplier advertise on their site, they're associated with that dishonesty by default. If you work for a company that scams people, and you know it scams people, you're part of the guilty party. That's the way real life works whether there's a technicality that you're a contracted employee or some other technicality that MT wants to hide behind.
This is another time to bring up something very important beyond "Buyer Beware" when it comes to buying used equipment online from china or anywhere for that matter. Been to china twice back in the 2000's from Hong Kong to the Great Wall. Coke, Marlboro's, Rolex, Ralph Lauren, Gucci - you name it, all fake. The best advice I can give if one is going to buy a used machine from china is "Buyer Beware", "It better be extremely cheap" and "God help you". There is a thread here on HEF that I will not link to that busted open a large online scam. No telling how many millions they stole from unsuspecting victims lured in by their "late model machines at great prices" which were prices too good to be true but they prey on everyone looking for a great deal. Similar scam here in AL that explains how that scam goes - Would you buy a snow plow in Alabama? Million dollar scam bilking those seeking heavy equipment Carl Bates with the Better Business Bureau said the scam has probably netted between $2 million and $3 million in the last six weeks. www.al.com The world is nasty place filled with awful people. There is no way I would buy a piece of yellow iron online without sitting my arse in the seat and putting it through the motions. YMMV.
Anyone wanting to buy a machine who doesn't inspect it person or have a trusted source inspect it for them has no one to blame other than themself. Iron Planet machines with the Iron clad guarantee may be a somewhat better assurance of a machines condition but Iron Planet is still in business to make as much as they can. They are part of Ritchie Bros. after all. Buying a machine without either inspecting it yourself or having a qualified 3rd. party inspect it for you is a recipe to be disappointed if not totally devastated. Someone's very good condition could be another person's poor to fair condition. An example could be the machine starts right up and runs perfect so is listed as very good condition. What isn't mentioned is the hydraulics are getting weak and all the pins and bushing are loose because of a lack of proper greasing. Most people exaggerate the condition of equipment they are selling. Some a lot more than others and they also play dumb in regards to problems with the equipment they obviously know about. Of course a used machine will usually have some issues. Hopefully nothing major. Buyers expecting no issues have wishful thinking and are being naive. A guy I know had a good response for people wanting a perfect used vehicle, "Oh, you want new... go to Ron Hodgson (new car dealer) just up the road and pay $50,000."
Reminds me of Frank Burns from M*A*S*H. If a patient died on him it was always either God's Will or someone else's fault..........
How true ! And this goes for anything used your looking to purchase. Along with that exaggeration so goes the crazy price as well. Yeah check it out real good but still you can pay that $40K for that 51 year old machine, get it home and find out it will need $100,000 or more in repairs, unless your a DIY person.
Just dealt with this on a customers recent auction purchase. Service call from the Deere dealer and then myself confirming it needs an ECU. Looked up the RB lot number, and looks like the shipping, service calls and ECU will add up to WAY more than the generator cost them. Didn't even have a picture of it running and making power in the listing.