I was looking at potentially buying an older Champion grader and was wondering what is a reasonable mark up for used equipment dealers? One dealer has 2 graders that were purchased at auction and I searched and found out what they sold for. One was purchased last June for $7750 and the other was purchased last Sep. for $11500. I have no problem paying more to not have to go through the auction process but the dealer is asking $17,900 and $18,300 for these machines a year later. I think I have a bit of an advantage (negotiating) knowing what they sold for but I'm not paying over double or close to double. I'm thinking maybe 30-35% markup not over 100%. Delivery, service, etc. could maybe be part of a deal. What would be a good starting offer? Should I mention I know there's some similar machines coming up at auction and could go that route? I could play dumb too and ask about service records and other stuff and see what kind of story I get. Sometimes it's easy to see when a sales person is full of BS. I discovered this when looking at the dump truck I ended up buying at auction. They would have made more money on my offer than selling it at auction. I haven't talked to this place with the graders yet but just looking for negotiating advice. Maybe walking in with cash is the way to go if the machine(s) checks out OK. There is another outfit here that specializes in Champion graders that will do an inspection but I'm not sure what that costs? Might be worth seeing what an inspection costs or at least get the basics on what to check.
Seems auction results has changed the iron business for all of us. We can use it to our advantage,or it can bite you on that deal you think your going to make a buck on. Dealers buy the stuff based on thier knowledge and experience then put it out there on what the market will bear. At this point it dosent matter what he paid for it , at least you have more time to look it over and maybe get some backup after purchase if needed. Id look the dealers machine over and make your offer,but be prepared to move on. Theres always another auction around the corner.
Whos to say the dealer didn't do a bunch of repair to the machine. Even just a little fixing on it will cost money. Or do you know for a fact they did not. Also they have cost of trucking it involved.
I realize the dealer had to bring it to their shop. The 1 machine had a leak noted on a cylinder so maybe the dealer repaired it. Asking over double still seems too greedy. The dealer might sit on the machine for a long time too.
OH GOD NOOOOOOOOO
I might be bidding against them. LoL I have another machine on a farm the guy wants $7200. Of course it looks a little rougher and the tires aren't as good but you can do a fair amount of fixing up for $10,000.
The first machine is a 33% mark up on asking. The second is 37% on asking. Anything under $20,000 US is less than base runner price. It may run when you look at it but chances are it may not once you sign the paper. No dealer that I know of would do so much as tighten a loose bolt on that level of iron.
I wouldn't think a dealer would do much unless it was something simple. It's a bit of a gamble for the dealer too, sell it and make a quick 4 or $5000 or hold on and hope to make $8000+. I doubt a contractor would buy a 30 to 35 year old machine for regular use. I could always make an offer and if it's too low they can call me if they change their mind.
I cant count how many time i have known about were a deal bought something cheap priced it high held on to it then sold it at action. I think after a while they think it is better to wright it off.
I've seen that a lot too. That's why I'm wondering if the dealer wants to make a quick profit or hold on hoping to make a huge profit.
for what it's worth, I'm at a dealer and this summer has been mostly restorations of older machines for customers. Everyone is dragging the old iron back into use. It's been a fun history lesson. Lot's of, ..."Oh yeah, I remember these!" The backhoe I'm fixing has rods running from the control levers to the hydraulic valve. It's like looking at cave paintings. I can't imagine what type of ancient human ran equipment before the invention of electro/hydraulic pilot controls.
This forum has a few of them
I watch auctions too and sometimes see equipment from an auction be listed for sale by a dealer later. I like to sometimes send them an offer of the same price they paid. I never get a response. Lol
I don't know of any dealer interested in auctions anymore unless something turns up as a steal. The subject machine would need to be less than two years old and have less than 2,000 hours before a dealer would consider a bid. What really happens is that a dealer will bid in order to protect the pricing of units they currently have in stock. They will run up the process on purpose. Most items at auctions seem to create some sort of hysteria when the bidding begins. I was part of pricing used machines in the past and my favorite saying about auctions was that "nowhere else can you watch the creation of such mass stupidity."
Sometimes you can get a good deal if other people have no idea what they're bidding on. I bought a Miller Trailblazer 55 diesel welder that was used for automatic pipeline welding. It was a 400 amp multi-process machine. There were 7 of them. One of the other bidders who took one had no idea why it had a whole bunch of extra controls. They sold for $2750 and a new one was $14,000. On the small items like chains and hand tools, they sell for more than new. Another item that sells for too much is golf carts. The company my dad used to work for sells lots of used golf carts through RB. They sell for more than you could buy them for direct from the company and often with a 3 or 6 month warranty. Kind of a no brainer taking them to auction.
I found another grader to look at. Seller was going to fix a broken axle but doesn't have the time. It's a 1987 with a rebuilt Cummins engine and he said he'd sell it to me for about 10K delivered with all the parts to fix it. It's about 2 hours away and he knows someone who could haul it. He said he'd split the trucking with me so 3 or $400 to get it delivered to my property seems pretty reasonable. Just have to see when I can get out to look at it. I'm in the beginning stages of getting a stem cell transplant and they put a central line in by my right front collar bone yesterday. It hurt pretty good last night and this morning but is feeling a little better now. I'm not supposed to drive for a while.
Doesn't matter what a seller paid for an item as the value is what the market via the buyer is willing to pay. Savvy sellers buy low and sell high it's the reason they are sellers. If what they are offering for sale is at a price you are willing to pay then it's a deal. Auctions are a different story that prey on buyers emotions, ignorance and machismo. As with any used from a dealer or auction house - Buyer Beware.
I don't think the dealers are out of line with their asking prices, or markup. Just because they got a "deal" when they bought them, doesn't change the "retail" value of the equipment. If you turned around your welder that you bought for 2750, and someone walked up 6 months later and offered you $3,500 for it, you probably wouldn't take it, you might just laugh at them. "Its worth $10,000- and new ones are $14,000" is what I'd imagine you would say. The dealers are no different than you are. Just because they bought them cheap, doesn't reduce the value of the graders. They took the risk at auction that they might need lots of work. I've actually looked at a couple local to me graders. Not because I need a grader, but because I think I can actually buy a used grader for less than I can buy a used skid/track loader. I need something to grade out my yard and driveway a couple times a year, and usually just rent a skid loader. I don't really think I'm going to buy a grader, but one sold near me this spring for under $6,000, and everything I look at for skid loaders is $15-20,000, which made me look a little at used graders. I think a used grader would be great for your track dave. It would really help bank your corners and I think would be great for maintence. Keep looking and the right one will show up.
We once bought a 953c online sale cheap the next week there was a 953b they got 89000 for it and about 2 weeks after that it was painted and listed for 99000 or so
I think soon prices on old used equipment will tank, especially as new emissions regulations arrive. Unless the old machines were well cared for and all systems totally gone through, leaky seals and case seams /gaskets and goo, metal fatigue etc. will soon show their ugliness. Purchasing an old 60's or 70's machine is more of a project than a money making device, especially if it has been beat, bent and welded to the max.
Sounds like a good deal i hope both deals work out for you good luck.
I just tried to make a joke and then this got dropped off
We ancient humans like old equipment. We can actually repair it.
I second that.As i have said before ,what does it take to melt down old machines build new ones with added plastic and computers . Yes there are many improved capabilities and labor saving abilities. How far do we need to go before us humans just are not required any more?
I have a feeling the machine with the broken axle was sold because now I can't get ahold of the guy. I found another grader I'm going to look at this afternoon. It's a mid 80's with a Cummins and he's asking $16,500. A little more money but sometimes it's better to not have to do a major repair just to try a machine out. Seller seemed nice, said only problems he knows with the machine is the exhaust manifold is cracked, 1 door handle is broke and 1 tire looses air if it sits for a while (tire shop told him the O-ring in the split rims is likely cracked). He used the grader to build a horse riding arena and doesn't need it much anymore. The manifold could maybe be welded but I'd have to look at it. It could be a negotiating tool. Probably easier to replace/repair the exhaust manifold than repair a broken axle. At least can run the machine and make sure the transmission, brakes and all functions work properly. Also the machine is a lot closer, maybe an hour away from my home and I think closer to my land but not sure. If it took up to 3 hours would likely just drive the machine to my land instead of trying to find someone to haul it. Here's a pic. of it. It has a 16ft. blade which isn't as common but a longer blade is supposed to be better for levelling. s-l640.webp (640×480) (ebayimg.com)
There are very few things more difficult to weld than a well used cast iron exhaust manifold. If it must be fixed a scab patch is more likely to be successful.
Sometimes; at an auction, in the frenzy of bidding you can pay too much.... Words to live by......
I'll will check how bad the crack is and see if it looks like it's going to continue. A cracked manifold isn't usually a deal breaker and I think a Cummins would be a nicer engine in a grader than a 4-71 or 6-71 Detroit. Quieter, better fuel economy, uses the same oil as my other machines and not likely to have a runaway like a Detroit can. I'm not sure which model of Cummins but I think an 8.3 or could possibly be a 5.9. Going to meet the seller in a couple hours. I don't want to miss out on a good deal (you snooze, you lose) but will look the machine over as best I can using some inspection info I got off the net regarding graders.
I'd guess m11 or l10 in that grader
730 champion graders listed for sale have 8.3 cummins in them, from the pictures I saw.
Well I bought the grader. Engine started right up and ran great and the transmission appeared to work very well too. I couldn't see a tag on the engine to see the model. Seller didn't know the year but I'd guess 84 to maybe 86. Oldest it could be is 84 because that's when the 730A model was introduced. Glass on 1 door is cracked. Crack on manifold isn't too serious. It is enough the side of the oil filter turns black. Might be able to stop it leaking with high heat ceramic exhaust putty. If not I think just wiring a piece of sheet metal around it would be sufficient. Seller has a brother who's a mechanic and said it wasn't worth breaking a bunch of bolts off to change the manifold. Seller has pins holding it in the straight position because he didn't know how the articulation works and never needed it. I'll have to get a manual on how everything works. I got it for $15,000 and the seller will deliver it for $500 which I think is much better than taking a chance driving it especially since I'm not used to driving a grader on the road. Seller didn't seem the type that was trying to swindle someone. He did say the grader was easy on fuel. A few things to fix or figure out but I think you'd find that on any older machine in the same price range. I think the Cummins engine is a bonus over a 2 cycle Detroit. It's actually pretty quiet. There's an AM radio in the cab but I never checked if works. Here's a pic. of it. s-l640.webp (640×480) (ebayimg.com)
That's what I've seen too. I'm trying to find some literature on the series I 730's. Shouldn't be too hard to confirm it.
I doubt you'll ever regret paying a little more for a much nicer machine. cry once.
I've seen a little nicer cosmetically of the same model and about the same year for $32,000. Engine is a Cummins 8.3 207 HP. One lift cylinder has a slight weep but not enough to drip or cause the cylinder to creep. Trans. looks like it's wept some over the years but not obvious drips. Front axles seemed good when they were picked up. Going by a known serial number of an 85, I think it's either a late 85 or early 86 series II machine. It's not perfect but seems to run great and most of the functions work. Have to look into how the articulation works(may not need it) and not sure if the AC works. There were some serrated ice blades the seller used to have on it that he will throw in. The edges on it now are worn more on one end than the other. Didn't appear the frog was worn into as all the bolts had lots meat beneath them. 2ft. blade extension was welded on which shouldn't be a problem but easy enough to cut off if I want a 14ft. blade. It's a gamble but hopefully nothing major to repair. It will let me do a lot of things faster once I get it somewhat figured out. A grader is a machine that's a lot bigger in person than seeing in a picture and a little intimidating. I might see if the instructor from the operating engineers could come over and give me some pointers. He's been running graders a long time. Hopefully he doesn't laugh but I can't afford a 500K grader or 3 like he gets run.
I dunno, spending a day extracting broken exhaust bolts can be kind relaxing. If you find a manifold you should just go for it. Sounds like a nice machine. Maybe the a/c just rubbed a line through and quit working.
Sounds like a good deal. Better then the seller you were looking at prior, I remember looking at his older ads claiming a bunch of BS on items, it's nothing more then someone trying to flip auction stuff.
I hope it's not a bad omen (on Friday the 13th no less) but I made a deal with the seller of the grader I looked at because I never heard back from the other guy. I was at the bank getting the money and the other guy finally called me back, albite a little late. I think it's pretty crappy if someone backs out of a deal at the last minute so I didn't need to think about it much. The other machine may have been better but maybe not??? With a broken axle there's no way to know. New paint and other cosmetic's don't mean squat if there's a major problem with something else. The grader I bought wasn't washed or anything, the seller wanted people to see it in it's work clothes. I can respect that. I asked him and he said he could wash it for me. That way I can keep an eye on how bad the trans. or other components may weep. A tiny weep can look worse than it is if it's been going on for several years. Nothing attracts dust and dirt like oil. Hopefully I made a good purchase and the grader works good for me in the somewhat limited use it will get. I think once I figure it out it will be like my skid steer and I'll find all kinds of things it will do better and faster. It will sure help open the MX track earlier in the summer. I'll be able to clear the snow off the track and parking lot which speeds up the drying process immensely.