Trying to rebuild the steering cylinder on a 1985 Massey Ferguson 399. Service manual says to remove the front axle first, but that's not a good option as I have no way to support the tractor without the axle. It looks like I can rebuild the cylinder on the tractor, but I can't get the tie rods out of the cylinder ram. Not talking about the tie rod ends (I shouldn't need to remove them), but the tie rods themselves. The rods are solid steel and have holes drilled in the ends opposite the tie rod ends. The steering cylinder's ram is hollow at both ends and split on the top and bottom. It appears you should just be able to remove the bolts that hold/pinch the tie rods in the ram and then pull them out. But I can't get them to budge. I've used a chisel to open the splits up and put in lots of penetrant, but they are still stuck. I tried using a 4 ton body porta-power to pull them out, but no joy. The rods must go down into the cylinder ram further than the splits. I tried using a rosebud to heat up the cylinder to where it just started to glow, but that didn't seem to help. Maybe more heat? Any ideas? Model: 399 (2 wheel drive -- 4 cylinder) Type/Ser Num: C0105012E16459
More pics
Can it be done? Yes. Is it an absolute Pain in the Backside? More yes. We did it 2 years ago on the later year model- there is an early & late serial number break. Do you have the book on these tractors? We had to buy replacement rod ends because the old ones were trashed by the time we got them out, & for the same reasons you’ve found. I would strongly encourage trying to into following the book on this particular activity. Do you have the wrench needed to separate the cylinder sections?
I'd take hsell's advice. What is so hard about jacking the front of the tractor up and blocking it?
Where in Georgia?
I think the previous replies are about a different (smaller) tractor. I just noticed I listed this as a 4 cyl tractor, it's a 6 cylinder. This tractor weighs over 9,000 pounds. It is much larger than the tractor in HsII's post. It also has a much larger steering cylinder/tie rod. As stated in the original post, I have the service/repair manual for it (factory: 700+ pages). The dealerships have a steel cradle that bolts onto the side of the tractor's frame at the front (just behind the axle). These cradles are on wheels and weigh about 500 lbs. I used to work for John Deere and that's how we did it. I could weld one up, but likely I'll never use it again. If you're a welder, then you know how much labor/material it would be. There is no good place to "block" up the tractor on the front and still be able to get the axle out from under it. Maybe you could use the engine's oil pan to support it, but that sounds like a bad idea to me. I have all the tools to rebuild this hydraulic cylinder. Anyway, the PROBLEM is getting the tie rods out of the cylinder ram. The factory service manual is very vague on this subject. Basically, just remove the bolts and pull it out. I guess the engineers never had to do it on a 40yr tractor. lol If anyone has actual experience with this type of steering system, I would sure appreciate any advice on how to remove the tie rods. Other than it's a PITA... I kinda figured that out, y'all. Thanks.
Ours was the later ** 399 cab with the 6.0 Perkins. Yours appears to be the earlier version with the 5.8 Perkins. Have Fun.
Yeah, that's the same... you just have your steer wheels narrower and a different steering system. Thanks!
It’s the same double ended cylinder that doesn’t want to separate from the front axle that you have. Took the castle nut off, jacked it up & with 3 people working together, 1 at each tire & 1 on the jack moving each point separated the cylinder assembly from the axle with bars & heat. The ends were trashed when we got it out. We then put the cylinder in a vice, built a wrench, & separated it. That’s why I suggested you follow the book.
I see what you mean by follow the book. Sounds like remove the cylinder from the tractor. I thought you meant remove the axle... my bad. It also sounds like you left the tie rods in the cylinder and just replaced the ends/balls. That would work. I could then rebuild the cylinder on the bench (much easier). So no reason to remove the tie rods. Thanks so much! You said you used heat and bars... I guess you heated up the swivel that the cylinder ball joint slips into? Then pry bars to push the ball joint out? I was just looking at it. I think I could lift the tractor's front with a forklift, tilt the axle as far as it'll go down on the driver side. That'll open up the ball joint... then I could put some steel flats in there, lower the front end and the weight of the tractor might push the ball joint out. It's been soaking in penetrant for days. For whatever that worth. In my experience, heat works way better. Oh, I'm not in Georgia anymore. Moved to North Carolina a couple years ago. I was in Appling, GA. I really appreciate your help!
Axle removal instructions- page 542 Steering cylinder Steering Ram disassembly- page 654 1174 pages You’ll want to do it with floor jacks & jack stands so you can manipulate the axle & tires; a lot. If you are working alone, It really will be easier & faster to support the tractor & remove the axle.
The 399 is touted as one of the best Massey tractors of all time!
Yeah, that's the same service manual I have. 1174 pages.
Alright, never could get that cylinder loose from the tractor. The owner and I tried for over an hour with a forklift and steel plates, wedges, etc. and could not get the balljoint on the cylinder to break free. The tractor has 450 lbs of weights on the front, so I figured with the engine/alxe there had to be at least 3,000 lbs sitting on a 1" bolt. The owner didn't really want to use a rosebud as it would have burnt the factory paint off. So, I just took the tie rod ends off and removed the cylinder ram/piston. Rebuilt the piston in the shop and replaced the 3 seals on the cylinder barrel with it attached to the tractor. It took about 1.5 hr do the rebuild. I spend most of a day trying to get the cylinder loose. Ugh. Anyway, thanks hseII for the help! The cylinder works great and the farmer has already bush hogged several acres.
Cylinder rebuild.
Cylinder rebuild.
Cylinder rebuild.