I have a friend who is looking to build a rather largish "Rat Rod" and is looking for a reliable model Cat engine that is also preferably "mechanical". He asked about a 3126 and I said I would stay away for several reasons...Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Either a 3304 or a 3306 would be a good candidate. 3306 will go to 300 hp in a truck application, maybe more. A 3406 is another one but may get a little heavy. Not sure what size of rig you're building. Somebody has built one before.
3116 will reliably go up to 300 HP in hotrod applications Not as cool looking as a 3306, if you want large in a ratrod, then you need a V12...
3126 is electronic except I have been told there were an extreme few that were mechanical. 3116 is mechanical (or maybe I got it backwards and there were a few late electronic ones) but nobody really liked them, don't really meet your reliability criteria found above. Plus if you want to "turn it up" it does not have an injection pump, just these Detroit style injectors connected with a rack, and as far as I know no hot rod parts available because nobody ever thought it a good platform to hop up. Marine parts might make it work, don't know for sure. Cat really did not make an engine that would be a great fit for a rat rod, the rest of them get much huger than the 3116. Unless you put a 3208 in it, should be able to crank up the fuel on one of those, the physical size is right, and the black smoke would be impressive, still not a real stout motor though.
Personally, go Detroit, 8 or 12V71T SCREAMER!! Use a Euc or Allis grill Twin Sticks!!
The 1.1 and 1.2 MUI engines were/are very reliable. They got a bad name because, just like any diesel engine, special tooling is needed for the fuel settings and people would dick about with them in ignorance. I don't think I've ever come across a 1.1/1.2 fuel system failure that wasn't caused by either dirty fuel or someone tampering with the injector settings.
Thanks for the help so far! This is the truck he looking to put the motor in....
Not many old Federals out there, why would he wish to destroy the mostly complete classic as this for a Rat Rod?? Would be worth the effort to find a derelict not this specimen.
Memory has faded a lot since those days but first off are you talking trucks or equipment? Some problems I seem to remember 1. Injector cups 2. Weak bottom ends (may be caused by driver overrevving but maybe indirectly because they had to be wound up so tight to make power and did not have a lot of rev capacity left) 3. Fuel systems, even though it should not be that bad as you say there is hardly anyone left who remembers how to do them or has the tooling. 4. No real potential for hot rodding. And of course if the OP is tempted to go for a HEUI 1.2 I thought those were even worse, shelling HEUI pumps for one thing.
I have a 3116, turned up enough it will blow through the clutch on 5th and 6th around 1500
1673 dohc maybe? It would weigh a metric ton, but the idle clatter from the gear train would be impressive. Personally it would be a shame to chop up a nice original truck like that.
Now he mentioned looking for a motor for a truck, I thought I heard "rat rod" in the conversation, but he may have said for a project after the rat rod he's working on....I'm going to see him tomorrow and will see what his plans are....he's a character to say the least, so anything is possible.....thanks for all the help!
Nothin says "rat" like a Detroit screaming it's guts out and dripping on the floor!
If you really want to be practical a 5.9 Cummins fits the bill perfectly. But there is no originality in that I must confess. The 8.3 Cummins is my favorite in this class of motor. Maybe a little bit cooler than a 5.9. A 7.8 Ford would also be a pretty good fit I think. Of course you could use a 466 International but again, zillions of them out there, no originality. 6-71 Detroit inline would probably fit OK and be nice and ratty and pretty good for hot rodding though. Lacks a little originality also, though. 3208 Cat is probably out of the running because it is too wide for that hood setup. But if you wanted to take the side covers off and let it stick out, it might look pretty cool.
DMiller, He said he wanted to hop it up, not slop it up!
This Federal Is way too good to molest, there just aren't that many out there and 85% of them are damn near un-salvageable. IMO. Trucks like that are great examples of trucking/transportation history. In any case screw the other choices- install a 5.9 or 8.3 Cummins IMO. And leave it looking original on the outside as much as possible. Truck Shop
Well now Birken if we really want to be one off, maybe one of our cousins across the water can hook us up with a TS-3 Knocker! Prolly need to stock up on the Whitworth wrenches though! I'm guessing Fastenal won't have bolts in stock
I agree with this sentiment entirely, I would much prefer to see it left entire as much as possible. If he cuts it up and makes a rat rod out of it, it will give him some laughs for a few years and then go straight to the junk yard probably.
I vote for 8.3 Cummings if it will fit with out cutting up the truck.
A 16V-92 sold for cheap on a local auction recently. Had a clutch to. A friend was there and tried calling me to no avail. Damn. Nothing like 4 stacks blowing black and 900 HP.
This beast is still on my local craigslist. I can't think of a single use I might have for it, but I bet it sounded pretty neat starting at full throttle, full load on a generator. If you read the listing- it has a category for "size", they just put "big" in that category. $2500 16v71, wouldn't have any turbo noise, but could you imagine those 4 stacks straight piping up? Should be able to put a standard sae bell housing and flywheel on there.... https://springfield.craigslist.org/hvo/d/16v71-detroit-power-unit/6280697737.html
Back when we were still doing all our own engine work at the quarry several times we rebuilt some of those 16V-71's, ours had twine turbos. The shop we did the engine work was just big enough to fit a 966C or R600 Mack in and close the door. Now when you crank up a 16V-71 in that small of a space and snap the governor to full speed, even with no load on it you could feel it deep inside your body! The hearing protection muffs might block the noise some but still! Plus we would have nothing on the inlet or exhaust side of those turbos to kill any of the sound! And if a 16V-71 is not your idea of fun what about a Cummins 1710 with twin turbos or a 3508 Cat?
I think all those engines are a bit big for the little old Federal.
Sure- be all realistic about it. I think if you just wanted to put a diesel in it to putter around, a 4-53t would fit pretty nice and not require a ton of modifications. Not too heavy and would sound nice also.
Nothing like a Screamin' Gimmie to listen to!! and watch set fire to the tires!!
It's funny about the 53 series Detroit replies. A friend of mine is picking one up today to repower an early 90's F-450. its going to replace a dead 460, he's going to use a gear vendors overdrive with the ZF 5 spd however that works.
The second box will sandwich between engine and OE trans, to give the lower reduction to get moving and OD to make up for lack of RPM as the 450 will be designed for an engine to run at 3000+ RPM at highway speed.