Something that has been on my mind lately and just figured I would post it and see what everyone else on the site thought of it. Where I grew up were a lot of very smart people to look up to. My father especially. He was someone who had a very good understanding of machinery and business involving machinery. He was a whiz when it came to diesel engines, hydraulics, computers, and money management. I felt though that he never really like to share his insights with anyone else. If he had figured something out, it was a closely guarded secret from anyone, including me. This fact seemed to present itself with every individual I looked up to and admired while growing up. I am anything but a professional in any field involving mechanics but I have grown a lot in the area. A lot of insight has come from this website. I just find it puzzling that I have received a lot more training and insight for free from the web, from complete strangers and not so much from people I actually know personally. Anyone else experience this?
A lot of trades people seem to think that keeping the info to themselves is job security. I was always wiling to share what I knew and so was my dad. I considered it a compliment if someone asked me how to do something. Really used to peeve me when someone that knew better would watch an apprentice do something wrong and not say anything.
I have never understood that attitude. I have always had apprentices working with me. Sure I let them struggle a bit with a problem, trying to get it figured out for themselves, that is how you learn. But I would never withhold the answer. Unless they are a useless twerp who has no right holding a wrench. That is a different story. I am like Welder Dave, I consider it a compliment if someone goes to the trouble to seek me out for my advice.
I had some of that experience when I was younger, in my early 20's, but never from anyone close to me. mostly a few older (70) grumpy guys around the area. both farmers and heavy equipment owners. I don't think they really had any secrets, just wanted to keep a new guy out of there field. I just chose to not listen to them. They would actually tell me that it was to expensive, to hard, not worth getting in into, I wasn't going to make it, and so on. I have always been the total opposite. I enjoy learning and sharing information, and have been lucky to align myself with alike minded people. I would rather sit down have a few drinks and talk about something real or interesting than make small talk. My wife says I have a strange group of friends, from ages 20-80. I am 48. Some are very successful, some are struggling to get by. I have been into a lot of different things over the years, So I get some questions from guys about what to do and have always tried to help or give the best information I could. I don't really see the point to not share some of my experiences or knowledge. I agree with Welder Dave, I would not watch someone do something that I know is wrong.
Being a 4th generation toolaholic, machinist and make/fix anything person I was blessed to learn at an early age how to do many things for myself and have access to an amazing array of machinery and tools. Growing up we always did things for others and helped many learn and acquire new skills. When we didn't know something there seemed to be someone willing to help. Learning new things was an excuse to buy equipment. The farm my parents started brought heavy equipment and all that went with it. Now 35 years later things are different. It is hard to find people to share what they know. Their 'skills' are special and kept secret. Many people have said "you can't do this at home". Wanna bet? I find that those who come seeking help don't want to learn they just want you to do it for them, preferably on the cheap. We do though have the son of a friend who wants to be a welder / fabricator spend a lot of time here welding and working metal. Good kid and actually wants to acquire a skill. When I was foreman in a service shop I caught a tech watching the new guy screw up big time. Asked him why. "Well, he could take my job." I replied, "You're right, he just took your job." Watching someone screw up is just wrong. Work with them, teach them and they will respect you not resent you.
I have no problem helping out someone or answering questions if I'm asked (provided I know the answer of course). I do get quite annoyed though when someone asks me how to do something and I spend 10-15 minutes of my time explaining it to them, only to walk passed later and see them doing the complete opposite and making zero headway. Why ask if you aren't interested in listening?
I have been telling the young guys for the last several years to suck out all of the knowledge I have out of my head because I will not be around forever. The retirement countdown clock is ticking, looking at less then a year now. I always say, if you are not asking me a question, what are you doing? You should be making us both think, you should be thinking about good questions to ask, and I should be thinking up good answers. I guess I was lucky when I did my apprenticeship, the old guys were pretty willing to share the knowledge that they had.
I wish more people were like you wornout wrench, willing to teach and be taught. You remind me of my papaw, if you asked him what time it was, he wanted to show you how a watch worked. He had no reservations about sharing his knowledge with anyone who would listen. When we die, a library burns down. I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but see my thread in TGIF called library fire, it will or should make you want to loan out all your books.
Knowledge knows no boundaries. The desire to impart knowledge is a two-way blessing.
About the only time I wouldn't say anything if someone was doing something wrong (not a huge screw up) would be if it was a new apprentice who just got out of school and thought he knew everything, the brown noser who is always trying to find fault in everybody else's work or the grumpy old guy who treats you like crap. I worked with a couple new apprentices who treated me like I was the apprentice and they were going to show me how to do it a better/faster way and wouldn't listen to me. On the other hand a good apprentice might come up with an idea that will make something easier or faster. I'd always listen to them. Just because you have more experience doesn't mean someone with less can't have some good ideas.
that question is 2 sided....first depending what your position is, knowing more than the next guy can keep you employed first and if you have your own business and figured out how to fix certain problems better and faster will make you more money, and in todays climate that is important,,companies go to big lengths to guard trade secrets, so its a double edged sword when it come to sharing your knowledge only to train your competition...second is finding some one that actually wants to learn to do it right compared to just getting buy, and like stated earlier, you spend a ton of time teaching some one and they dont listen....when learning my trade, I worked for several companies and did a bunch of reading code books and practicing on my own and picking everyones brain that I could and showed I could listen to their instruction, as I moved forward I took a little knowledge from everyone and used what worked for me.some were eager to share and some where not, everyone had their reasons for what they did..seems today everyone that starts a job or career want to start at the top and not put in their dues and work their way up...
I'm not too worried about someone taking my job because I imparted too much knowledge to them. I'm confident in my skills, abilities and work ethic. If they no longer require my services, I'll move along to the next opprotunity. Myself and the other field guys on my shift freely share info between each other. Its a rare day one of us doesn't call another asking for advice on something. We're all competent mechanics but some of us are more familiar with different types of equipment.
Some companies don't always appreciate experience because it costs more. I was laid off from a job once because I was a journeyman and they figured they'd save money by laying me off and keeping a 1st year apprentice. I put in more overtime in 7 weeks on the night shift than anyone else. Most times an experienced journeyman will earn you more money in the long but there are always some who you wonder who they paid to take their tests. LOL
I am finally to the point in my career that people are coming to me for advice. It's been that way for a couple years actually. I have no problem helping someone out, but I also will no do it for them. I have worked with "kids" that won't even try, just come ask for help and expect you to fix it.
I would issue some of the retained info to the newbies who would try to find it written down which it wasn't, many of them considered me a crackpot and ignored further attempts until I could fix most any issue from all that retained 'crap' as considered they dumped. A FEW listened and began to learn what I know and how to ID certain problems without tech manuals or written procedures. Got to be smarter than the machine some days.
Back in my USN days the training issue is ingrained in everyone. There are never enough qualified people for each job that is necessary to accomplish on a navy ship which means a lot of long hard hours. The best way to reduce that work load was to get as many people trained and qualified as possible so the ones in the know worked hard to get the newbies up to speed. That for the most part carried over in me when I was discharged into real life again. Nothing feels better than when someone you worked with accomplishes a task and you don't even have to think about if it was done right. Someone could come up to you and ask if this person can do the job and you can say absolutely they can. That has always given me a lot of satisfaction.
awesome replies guys. Just gotta like the sense of community expressed on this site.
People are brown-nosers because others are vulnerable to it. I train myself not to be. I wont fault a guy for having a poor bedside manner, a grumpy demeanor or generally poor people skills. They can learn that later. Humility is overrated. As long as he has aptitude and at least some work ethic, I'll help him along. If I were an old salesman trying to mentor young salesmen, my approach would be the opposite. Maybe it's because I remember how I was 45 years ago. I knew it all, or appeared to come off that way because I was trying to impress people. My people skills were terrible. The more years I did mechanic work, the less cocky I became.