I have this loader that has been sitting for ~10 years. Trying to get it running. Fuel tank had ~an inch of fuel in it. Looks like OK stuff. Poured in another 5 gallons. Cranked the engine over. Gave it a sniff of starting fluid and it started right up. Yay. It ran for ~ one minute and started loosing power, wouldn't rev anymore, finally died. Took the fuel filters off. They look good. Filled them up with new fuel and put back on. I pressurize the fuel tank and got fuel to the fitting on the end of the tube coming from the tank. (RED line in my picture) I got fuel to the outlet of the first filter, so the filter is filled. (Start of BLUE line in my picture) I got fuel to the other end of that (BLUE) tube to the ?intake? of the ?pump?. (Filled the BLUE line in my picture) I got fuel out the other side of the ?pump?. (Start of PURPLE line in my picture) I got fuel to the fitting at the top of the (PURPLE) line to intake of the ?secondary? filter. (Filled the PURPLE line in my picture) I got fuel to the outlet of the second filter, so the filter is filled. (Start of GREEN line in my picture) The other end of that (GREEN) tube goes into the block somewhere. I kept air pressure in the fuel tank and tried starting, NO GO. A sniff of starting fluid in the air intake and it almost acts like it might run but no kick. NOW WHAT? Do I need to bleed injectors somewhere? I don't see coiled tubes from a pump going to individual injectors. I see allen head plugs on this left side of the engine but nothing that looks like injectors or covers. Are there injectors inside the covers on the right side of the engine? I expected that was valves. Didn't crack them open.
the injectors are under the valve cover the rack could be stuck after it sat that long.
The rack is fuel or valves? It would run for a minute or so if the rack is stuck?
the rack is under the valve cover it is connected to each injector it moves a lever on the injector that regulates the fuel. its been a long time since I worked on one. there are better Detroit mechanic on this forum then me. but I hope this helps.
First of all, make sure the emergency shutoff cable works and isn't seized up. Then take the air cleaner out and find a board or plate that will cover the intake hole incase it runs away. I'm guessing the rack is stuck. Its under the valve cover on top. Usually can be freed up with gentle working over by a flathead screw driver and some fresh lubricant. Detroits are tough but finicky after sitting. Known for stuck racks and running away, but have a surprising survival rate. Also, I seem to recall that the fuel punmp drive can frig up,strip or break. But its been a while. Also, its a unit injector so there no real easy way to bleed them short of cranking it.
That's a Detroit 4-71. Make sure the emergency shut down lever hasn't been tripped.
I did take the air cleaner out before I started. It was nasty. Got a metal can the fits over the intake hole if needed. I will check on the shut down lever and then may have to operate on the rack... I did see that lever thing and recognized that it was some kind of cable or wire attachment. Thanks for the arrow to know what you are talking about. I probably would have messed with the throttle linkage... There is nothing attached to that connector and it doesn't move easy. I did wiggled it a little but didn't get it to move enough that I though it did anything right now. One more thing to check on though... The throttle connects to a linkage up high and to the rear: I don't know what that electric motor looking thing is. I couldn't see any wires going to it. ?? If I push the throttle linkage completely closed it does snap back and I thought that was the shut down. It probably does shut down but not as completely as the emergency shut down lever.
Can you snap two more pics for me please. (1) a better view of the emergency shutdown I referred to (pointed out by red arrow). and (2) of that thing you described as an electric motor looking thing. That's actually the governor that controls the throttle, can you snap a pic looking down from above as best you can. Thanks
had the same problem in a pettibone forklift with 453 the issue was in the govenor- mechanic reset the govenor to ensure worked fine no issue 3000 hrs since If the loader has been sitting for 10 years- dump the tranny oil and refill. The oil will have lost its viscocity and you can smoke the clutch packs M
This is what I think you are referring to as the emergency shutdown. It rotates a little bit but doesn't MOVE. I don't see a bracket or whatever a cable would have been attached to. It looks like it might have a detent ball or something inside that i might need to whack it gently to get it to move. I can't tell which way it is supposed to go to be RUNNING. ?? How do I reset it if it has been activated? Here is a picture from a little further back... It looks like there is a shaft that runs clear through that (air intake?) case. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The throttle rod and governor has some kind of interlock. The link from the LEFT is the one that comes from the throttle foot pedal. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This shaft goes up to the floorboard of the cab. NOT a throttle link. Looks like maybe shutdown. These rods won't hardly move either, so I don't think that is what made it fade out and shut down. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any further suggestions, keep them coming. Thanks.
You could removed the blower intake cover side and you could see the screen if he is't plug and the same time you could see the emergency trapp how she is working
I've worked on a bunch of Detroits and that's the first time I've seen the emergency shutdown have a gizmo like that on it, they typically used a spring loaded latch like a mouse trap trip mechanism. You are correct, there is a shaft that runs all the way through the blower case, from one side to the other. That shaft controls a flap that blocks the air intake to kill the engine in case either the governor flips out or the engine loses a piston and starts feeding on engine oil. You may be able to disconnect that air intake hose and get a look down in the blower intake pipe to make sure the flap isn't closed. It is curious that the engine ran for a few moments, then died, even though you have filters full of fuel. Not knowing what has happened, I think I would remove the valve cover and make certain the fuel rack is moving freely as mentioned by TD25C. Another thing I would check is to make sure the blower drive shaft hasn't stripped out. Remove the flexible air intake hose and have a helper crank the engine. While it's cranking slip a piece of 3/4" thick plywood over the intake pipe to see if it has intake vacuum, if it doesn't there's a problem with the blower and it won't run at all. That's a strange arrangement that Michigan put on it for the fuel shut off with all the links and cranks. You need to get those links freed up to kill the engine once you do get it sorted out. Looking down from the top (in your pic) the lever/shaft toward radiator is the shut down, the lever/shaft toward operators cab is the throttle control.
Take the purple line off at the secondary filter, crank it over with the starter and see if the pump is at least pumping fuel on its own.... those old Detroit's had a restrictor valve where the fuel line comes back out of the head on the return to the tank... if that valve is plugged with crap, it won't run either.
Priming Detroit with air Remove the return line at the fuel tank & stick the end of it in a bucket to catch the fuel. Put about 5 psi on the fitting at the tank and have a buddy crank on the engine until fuel starts flowing from the return line into the bucket. If you are just putting air on the tank without removing the return line the fuel system cant flow & prime itself with air pressure.
Exactly, return line has to be removed at tank to prime with air. And correct as well, you have to be cranking the engine as a Detroit has a gear fuel pump, no fuel will pass through the fuel pump unless it's turning. Additionally, while pressurizing tank and cranking, make sure fuel is coming out of return line in bucket. If not, restrictor fitting in head mentioned by gramps is clogged.
the fuel transfer pump (gear pump) can be a real b1tch when they lose their prime. Sitting for years would do that. What I do is hook a 12 volt inline pump between the tank and the gear pump, pressure it up, and start cranking. Make sure the filters are full too before you start. The Detroit techs actually have a hand pump setup they use for this. Does the same thing.
My God OFF, you have knowledge of the JLG 40F, and now you reveal you have knowledge of the old green leakers, you do realize you're showing your age, no?
Yes, I have been exposed to a few detroits over the "years". We still have a few (about 10) in use even. I would much rather have a man to man fist fight with an old green leaker any day than try to wrap my head around how a Cummins ISC can be shut down by a faulty low coolant level sensor without even throwing a code :Banghead
Ditto! :drinkup
The cylinder head holds enough fuel to run about a minute or two.Sounds like the gear type charge pump at the end of the engine did not prime.You may want to start by putting a small fuel supply above the charge pump,get a syphon going then plug into the charge pump and crank.The cylinder head acts as a fuel tank of sorts,as long as it's full it feeds the injectors.When it's full it returns to the tank.
We have a Sterling truck with a Mercedes/Detroit engine in it that we use to water roads in a quarry. There have been many times I have threatened to rip that thing out and install the old 4-71 that is sitting in the store room. I could guarantee that old two stroke would start every time you turned the key and if it didn't I'd have it figured out in less time than you could get a laptop to boot up to try to figure out what sensor was upset on the Mercedes! Glad I only have a couple years to work before I can leave this "modern technology" to the young kids. That's assuming you can find one who can stand to get his hands dirty!
You know, I said that same thing to someone of Thursday. "I only have 2 years left". I was talking to a Cummins tech who I waited a week for, & paid $1000 for, so he could come out to hook up his magic laptop and tell me that my serviceman had over-filled the engine's motor oil by about 2 quarts. And how that caused the crankcase pressure sensor to read an over-pressure condition and shut the engine down. I've always said, "a good mechanic never stops learning" but I don't know how much more of this "learning" I can take before I lose my mind. How can anyone design something so stupid?
I know what you mean. These things have all this computer stuff on them with the digital readout on the dash but they don't go one small step further and have the problem the computer sees scroll across the dash in plain English, or other local language, just say "Coolant level Low". Our's was about one quart below the add line in the coolant tank and would start and run for about ten seconds. ddiiggy, sorry to have hi-jacked this thread! Have you had time to check that emergency shut down? That's just a large flapper plate blocks off the air to the engine when the release is operated. I would also suggest removing the valve cover and check to see if the linkage that operated the fuel injectors is working free. One thing to look for is if there is any clearance between the injector rocker arm and the top of the injector plunger if there is then the injector is stuck and I would not try starting till I had replaced them. One stuck injector can hold all the others in full fuel position and cause the engine to runaway and you will only have a few seconds to kill the engine with the emergency shut down. That is one reason why you should make 100% sure that works first of all.
I did have the (GREEN) line loose at one point and cranked the engine and did get some fuel to come out but not as much pressure as I expected. ?? So, the pump is at least working some... It sounds like I do need to take the return hose loose. I never thought about there being a return. That would pretty much make pressurizing the tank not really do anything. Need to find and check for a restrictor valve. So the fuel isn't under pressure? You almost make it sound like it is just a tank up there or something. ?? hi-jack away. I'm sort of waiting on some warmer weather to really get back into this. It's not like it is a big hurry. It has been sitting for a while. I'm not really needing to USE this thing, I just want to get it moved from where it is setting. I did check the action of the air intake flapper. It does move. It just has a catch and then it goes the rest of the way. I will take off the whole cover and check the flapper and watch the blower... Time to figure out how rusted in the bolts are that hold the lid on so I can see inside the valve cover.
The fuel leaves the fuel pump and is delivered to a port on the head. The fuel enters a hollow chamber that runs the length of the head. There is an additional hollow chamber that runs the length of the head for return fuel from injectors. There is a port on the side of the head (where fuel return line to tank is connected) that has a brass fitting where return line connects. That brass fitting "is" the restrictor valve. It's nothing more than an orifice type fitting, not a typical hose fitting. The orifice hole in the fitting restricts flow of fuel thereby creating pressure inside the fuel galleys in the head from fuel being delivered by the fuel pump. Along the head, inside the valve cover, are ports to deliver fuel and to return fuel for each injector (shown by arrows below), there is a steel jumper line connected to supply and return for each injector (illustrated by lines in pic below) The fuel pump is a gear type pump. If it were to lose it's prime, being a gear pump, sometimes it's hard for it to pick up prime on its own and needs some assistance.
This restrictor valve will have a number stamped in it, something like 070, or just 70. This is the size of the hole in it. It does look like a normal brass fitting, u sally a 90º Inverted flare on most engines I have seen. The line from it should head right back to the fuel tank. If It was plugged I could see this causing a problem with the engine not picking up it's prime as easy as normal. This would be due to there being no where for the air in the system to vent out.