Anyone using ex-military dumps as site trucks? Artics are so darn expensive to purchase and operate when you don't have 100's of thousands of yards to move. I am on the smaller end of the dirt moving scale but still run across jobs where an inexpensive site truck would fit the bill to move a couple 100 to a couple thousand yards. Most I am seeing come with a Cummins and an Allison behind it, pretty dependable. Any experience, civilian and military pros and cons are welcome. Thanks.
The bigest problem is drivers. If you put some one in one that likes them the will work good. I wrenched on one and the guys that drove it didnt like it because it wasnt shiny. So the didnt take care of it other wise it worked good.
Thanks Old Doug. I'm good on the operator part, we're a small group and work well together, we've been discussing getting one. It wouldn't be something that would be used all the time as our projects are diversified to say the least. The first thing I would do would be to add A/C. Because I would be driving it on occasion ...:tong
We have thought about the same exact thing. We even priced a dump body for one a long time ago. If you have a minute, check out John BM Mfg. They have trailers called Dirt Boss. You can get one up to 15 tons and pull with a farm tractor. Not sure what size tractor you would need to pull.
This one caught my attention - http://ccsurplus.com/content/1986-m...y-dump-truck-10-ton-dump-m917-m929-m817-video Those dump trailers behind farm tractors seem to be popular in Europe from what I've seen on the net.
Yes I have watched the tractor trailer combos from Europe and was impressed. I must say, I am very impressed with the C&C dump. That would work great for us. We actually have a few small ponds to dig and move the material onsite and that would be perfect. I know not as productive as an ADT but at almost $9000 to rent a 25 ton truck per month, it would pay for itself in a hurry.
Any 5 ton 6x6 M900 series truck will be cummins/Allison. The A1's have less stupid problems and a 855ci NA cummins. The A2 has common air leaks in the central tire pressure system. Great low maintenance trucks. The dump bodies on them are very small in person. Trucks are only rated for 10 tons over the road or 5 tons off road. All trucks have wedge brakes, a design similar to a mack suspension and some wicked articulation. All come plumbed for air and lights for a trailer (24 volts) and would make a great vehicle to pull heavy machinery somewhere you don't want to use your truck.
had a 5 ton in the 90's pulled a 30yd bottom dump off rd 673 mack and 5 spd spicer .if you put in low gear ,6x6 ,pull the throttle out and pointed it were you wanted to go (gully or mountain ) it come out the other side .thats what they were made for not production or fast cycle times you couldn't shift it, it wasn't fast but it went where ever you pointed it. there is a customer of mine that come in town to do a chain restaurant site that had two of them a 5 ton and 10 ton dumps he said the same thing about them not fast but went. From past experience I think I would find an old 6X6 mixer truck and put a AR steel dump bed on it put a good high quality hyd pump on it with a larger HYD tank on it because short cycle times it will get hot if you use a mixer truck maybe use the pump on it and the HYD cooler . might get lucky and find one with A/C:school and allison auto:thumbsup .You will be able to get parts a lot easier thats what we run into starters ,alternators and ect. put some good mud tires maybe military tires they seemed to go great and cleanout good they wouldn't turn as sharp as a standard truck either which sucks on the job site I have seen a couple of loggers take the dual's off and put a single wide tractor style lug on the rear for more flotation and traction
the down side to these truck is EVERYTHING is 24 volts light bulbs, starters, etc ect.. go to the parts house & try to get anything. the city here has 6 from the D.R.M.O. the guys here don't like them so they abuse them every chance they get. they have managed to blow up 1 motor(it cummins apart) Only way to own 1 of these is to have another for parts truck. the good thing is they will do anything you could want...
CM Knowing what kind of work you do, I would think you are on to something. A rugged truck that you can use on the job, and if you want, you can have it street legal to move from job to job. You may also want to leave it on a non op status and lowbed it, or buy quarterly registration when you have a job that requires on road hauling. Lots of options. With a small, close knit crew like yours, you can make it work. It would not be for everyone, but it would certainly fit the bill. I think you can find a better deal than the one you showed as well. As for the 24 volt electrical, I have heard of people changing them over to 12V, and I don't think that would be very hard.
I thought you'd sworn off trucks...:tong For less money, you can have a newer rolloff. http://ns1.holidays.net/store/Oshko...t-Hooklift-Rolloff-Roll-Off_261601427230.html
I would look into this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/M923-Milita...b4dea4&item=171475000996&pt=Military_Vehicles You could have the dump body of your choice and still be half the price of the one you showed first. I know nothing of the seller, it is just an example of the trucks available at the right price.
There's a pretty big weight penalty on roll offs. One of the local towns here bought a military surplus Freightliner tractor, swapped out the twin screw for a single rear axle and built themselves a road maintenance dump complete with plow and spreader. The tractor was less that $10k and had about 8000 miles on it. They're super happy with it! I think that truck you linked would make an excellent site truck with all wheel drive and those flotation tires.
like Fservice said the parts are a pain it's not cheap to change over to 12V been there done that you still won't be happy and nobody wants to work on them either. That's why I recommend using a more common civilian truck parts are redly available, the cabs are more comfy ,air ride seat The one good use I have seen for them is to hook a 10 Ton to tub grinder with a big cable on the front so you can hook a D8 to drag it on thru the job site but then the problem is the 10Ton is so wide and tall you have to make sure the tub grinder has enough swing clearance to hook it up (and change the fifth wheel to a 5 TON so it is common king pin size) that's the kinda stuff you get into trying to use these truck's. You would be surprised where a good old R model mack will go with a good set of mud tires and a half crazy driver why do think the exporters buy them up as fast as they can get them
I think you could have a very good truck, with the one you are looking at if used mostly for on site work. A nice feature on the one you are looking at is that it has a commercial dump bed which will give you better capacity than the standard military bed which would have been smaller. The only disadvantage. I see is if used on road the empty weight is a bit heavier. I have not heard of anyone not being able to get parts for these.
Thanks for the replies. I should've expounded on the truck I linked to. I like the way it's set up with a big dump bed, however I don't like the price - too expensive.:tong Mack R models are tough as nails. Central and South America loves them because they can abuse the crap out of them, never service them and they keep going. Some of the trucks I have seen in Costa Rica... Basically looking for a cheap on-site truck to save on undercarriage wear. Something to haul brush, pipe, bedding gravel (they make a decent bedding box), topsoil and fill. I wouldn't tag it or insure for on-road use - not worth the hassle or the expense. Keep it on-site only and run red fuel in it. I would like an auto so anyone can drive it and hopefully save clutches and drive lines.
Letsdig18 has one with a few videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GywEWZCot7c . He's a member here. Maybe he'll show up and give you the lowdown.
We had a '69 Mack R685 and a '82 F8000 as cheapo on site haulers for jobs that didn't need the 725 ADT's. That old Mack would run circles around the Ford. It took a beating everyday for 7yrs and still worked fine when we sold it. Paid $5k each when we bought em and sold the Mack for $3k and the Ford for $2500. Pretty good investment.
Another advantage of the six wheel drive is the ability to use low range in the transfer case on site. It makes it very easy on the transmission.
To clear things up a little Millitary Trucks are built with mostly off the shelf parts the older ones are very easy to get parts for. The doors fenders cant be found just any were but a good welder can build any thing you need. They are big and easy to get to any thing that needs worked on. 24 volt is not as scary as most think. Rewire the light swith and run it off one battery and change out light bulds 12 bulbs will go right in a 24volt socket. It was that at one time the goverment requered the builders to make several spare parts for every thing they bought.
Old Doug says "Rewire the light switch and run it off one battery " That's not a good idea. Sure it will work fine but it always takes out one battery prematurely. Been there done that way to many times. It always ruins a battery.
How about one of these? http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/search?cmd=results&words=Dump Trucks
I've made that mistake also. On my Unimog I run a 24 to 12 volt transformer for all my accessories with no issue.
Here ya go CM http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/hvo/4699048501.html .
A lot of the concrete trucks in FL are 6X6 I would be looking down that way. I didn't mean that you couldn't get parts for them they are just not as easy or quick to get as standard truck parts yes you can get them from surplus parts brokers but they are not normally as fast as local truck parts places which is ok if you are a weekend warrior but we are trying to make a little profit while we are playing with our big tonka toys .like I said before your still at a loss with the wide turning radius and slow cycle time
Half my work is on site hauling and have been doing it for close to 20yrs. A 6x6 or a tandem truck ag lime spreader with the smaller lgp tires out back would be ideal. A auto trans would make some fast cycle times but the added heat from heavy power under load might create some expensive repairs. Some years ago a new hot shot came onto a soft on site haul with a fancy auto peterbilt. Made 4 rounds and the trans was nuking. Proper gearing and throttle control with a manual trans is about indestructible. The 5k beater dumper is your best bang for the buck.
Information for the USA. Truck electrical systems in the rest of the World have been 24V for the last 40 years. It's a bit like the Metric system. Do try to keep up ............:tong:tong
I have owned auto dumps in the past, a tandem and tri-axle and they both performed very well with no problems. Also had two auto tandem hook lift trucks in another business I was in. Used the dumps for on site and on road hauling, also moved equipment. I am a big auto fan in a dump truck, I wouldn't be worried about it's performance off-road.
:my2c I started as a civilian wrench then went into the military, now I'm close to retiring and transitioning back. Those trucks can be had fairly inexpensively, no they wont perform the same as their civilian counterparts. Thats not what they were designed for. If you get one look for a basic or A1 model. The A2's had the Central Tire Inflation System (CTIS) and it was a real problem child for us, especially on the trucks that didnt roll all the time. Im thinking it will also be a b**** to get parts for that CTIS on the civilian side. There is a way to by pass it though and if you end up with one PM or email me and I'll tell you how. Those trucks were spec'd out by the military but they were assembled using "civilian off-the-shelf" components and systems. Finding parts will be more of a challenge but completely possible. I can even send you the technical manuals and parts books for them. As for the 24 volt electrical system yeah that might prove to be a challenge. The stock configuration uses 6TMF(four of them) batteries under the passenger seat so once they wear out your gonna have to pay through the nose for new or come up with an alternative. They can be had on the civ side but the first website I came across that had them wanted almost $300 a piece. 24v bulbs etc can also be gotten you just might have to plan ahead and keep a stock on hand and reorder as the burn up. Starters and Alternators might be a different story. Not sure about your neighborhood but we have several rebuild shops in the metro detroit area(motor city ya know) that are capable of keeping them going. Any more questions feel free to shoot me a message. I'm sure there are some other guys on here with the military experience and more civilian experience as an operator that can give a better run down on the performance of them. I was just looking at it from a maintainers point of view...hope that helps
You guys talk like 24v is some morphrodite devil. Most medium and large equipment is 24v and around here most napa and oreilly stores can get lights, alternators, starters, and more the same day if they are not in stock. Sure some of the military stuff is oddball but should be easily sourced.
:exactly .............. Is there an echo in here ..? :tong
That's a clean looking truck CM1995 ! Could definitely see a place for it in your operation .In it's overall condition I would be tempted to plate it and install rear hitch for a tag trailer to move equipment with . Nice looking truck that is still simple get the job done rig :thumbsup http://ccsurplus.com/content/1986-m...y-dump-truck-10-ton-dump-m917-m929-m817-video My buddy bought one like it with the standard cargo bed . He's thinking about mounting a dump box on it .
Haha I'm with you guys on this one.....very easy to source parts online if you know where to look. There is a concrete contractor here that uses three 5 tons to move material all over town especially inside city limits because the Allison is much easier on drivers in turn they are easier on trucks. He says they've been really realiable and a lot cheaper to buy than an on road bobtail. I've actually rented one from him and it worked great on the soft ground job site I was at. He did say that if the trucks have sat awhile ( most have ) that they will have small issues but nothing a decent mechanic and a wrench can't fix. After running his and hearing all good I just bought a 2.5 ton for 2500$ in running condition.... Just needs a few small things like lights, connections checked, new filters just normal stuff from sitting. I'm gonna turn it into a feild service truck.... From what I know if the price is right I wouldn't think twice about getting one