Gday all, First off merry Christmas to everyone!!!! A question i have is what size machine is good for general use??? I have had a look at smaller 5 tonne machines, right up to a 26 tonne machine. Which size is best for general excavation work?? I have had a look at a Kato 1220 SE 11, Cat 215, Kobelco Sk200 11, Bobcat 337 The machine i get doesnt have to be brand spanking new, just needs to be reliable with a good source of parts. Any thoughts welcome Cheers Alex
Really depends what you want to do with it and what sort of places you're going to be working.
Like Hendrik said, depends what you want to do with it. I think a 5 ton machine is perfect for small excavation work because it can fit in to almost anywhere. They are also extremely easy to transport. A lot of people are surprised what a 5 ton machine can do, they are quite versatile. Here are two videos of our 5 ton Bobcat doing things that i didn't even think were possible, until i did them. haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0V---h2Qnw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtphqVbI_Kw
It makes a difference if you need to move it around or is going to be at your property only? A Cat 215 is big enough to pull stumps, load a gravel truck, dig a basement and be easier on fuel than a larger machine. It is easy to move.
What size machine you get should be determined by your business plan and targeted customer group. For instance if I made a deal w/ a contractor doing a large road project that needed tons and tons of fill, that 26 ton isn't going to cut it, much too small. I should be looking at the biggest beast that I think I can afford. And if I lived right next to a town that was redoing all their water and sewer lines and was making the residents re-do all their hookups, then that 337 bobcat would be plenty. How I planed on moving the machine would be a major factor in my decision. If I have to rely on the machine to make my living and I'm hiring all the hauling, life isn't going to be good. It isn't the truckers fees that kill you, its the well I can't get there till friday that kills you cause you just lost out on a weeks work. Check what oversize and overweight means in aussie land, that effects transport cost over here pretty good.
Thanks everyone, the bobcat looks like a good machine, and i can tow it behind my high speed tractor. Now my intentions is to do general work, such as putting in drains, knocking down dams, removing trees, a lot of stump work, maybe a mowing head on the machine would be good too. The 337 really does appeal to me, it will be easy to tow, within my price range, parts are nearby. The one hesitation i have is that it might be a little small for the work i want to do. From my experience with machinery, working them at capacity for long periods of time will eventually bring out gremlins, this machine will be a breadwinner so has to be very reliable, versatile, and have excellent parts availability. Is bigger better?? don't work the machine as hard.. Or go for a smaller machine and work at full capacity all the time?? Many thanks Alex
My employer runs two bobcat minis, 1 machine in the 12-15 ton range, 1 machine in the 20 ton range, 1 in the 25 ton range, and 1 in the 30 ton range. We do a mix of civil site work, and environmental remediation work. The two mini excavators make more than any of their larger counterparts. In fact they make almost as much as the 4 larger machines combined. It simply comes down to the fact that the minis work in tight spaces, on specialty jobs, where we get paid big dollars.
I really think you are being to vague (with what you are going to do) for someone to give the specific advice you are looking for. The 337 is a good excavator but it is a "mini". If you are planning to work in "tract" residential areas than it will probably be OK. I would want something bigger. If you are going with something that small I think you should seriously consider adding a skid steer to the mix so you will have more versatility. The reach of such a small hoe can limit what you can do efficiently. IMO every machine should be able to work near it's max for a long time, though it is simply common sense that the harder it works, the sooner it will wear out. When I read your post I get nervous when I think about trying to pull stumps with a mini. My mind conjures up big sycamore stumps (you being from down under and all), and that's what I mean by vague. You might actually be pulling out little bity stumps for all I know. The best suggestion I can think of is try different size machines for your specific applications. There are a LOT of different size excavators out there, and it's because there are a LOT of situations to work them in. Each size machine fills a niche.
As I said, these machines fill a niche. They have found it and filled it with the correct machines. IMO TOM G has a similar niche. With so many options it's hard to find the perfect machine for every job. It's also hard to advise you on your situation. You will have to try some machines out and see which one is best for you.
Ok DGODGR i'll be a bit more specific, i want the capacity to take out 48'' dia stumps and not over 20 tons. Given that my main area of work is in property cleanups, so that means demo work, digging drains, maybe some landscape work, removal of trees up to 48'' trunks and digging up bigger rocks up to 5 tons size. I'm pretty capable with heavy machinery, as i have nearly 10 years experience with heavy ag machinery. I can do all the spanner pushing myself, however this will be my first EX. Sorry if i'm being a little vague about the work as i'm pretty uncertain as to what a 20 ton machine can do. Any comments please feel free Many thanks again Alex
48 inch trunk stumps? A 5 tonne excavator would have absolutely no hope of even getting close to removing them. Even my 21 tonner would be pushed to its limits with stumps of that size. The rootball of a 48" stump is usually about 15 feet in diameter. The rootball would weigh about 12-15 tonnes. You'd want a 20 tonne excavator minimum to handle stumps that size, a 30 tonner would be better. A 13/14 tonner like a CAT 312 can tackle stumps up to around 32-36". 5 tonne rocks can be moved by a 10 tonne excavator or bigger. Bigger is better of course. A machine like a CAT 312 with a blade would be ideal for moving such stones. I believe you have a big michigan wheel loader too now, that would move stones better than an excavator. For demo of small sheds and such, you'd want a minimum of a 13ish tonner again to get enough reach and enough strength to break thinner concrete floors and such. A 5 tonner simply doesn't have the reach to demolish anything more than the smallest of tool sheds. For digging drains and landscaping, it depends on the scale of the jobs you'll be doing. For little residential landscaping and making small private drains, a mini ex like a 5 tonner would be fine. For accomplishing bigger jobs in a timely manner, you'd probably want a somewhat bigger machine.
^^^^I agree
Thanks Sultan, great advice. The loader i went back to have a look at and the engine was cactus, the fellow had let water run in through the exhaust, into the turbo and then dribbled onto the head. I have had my eye on this kobelco EX, its a 20 ton machine, looks in fairly good nick. It comes with a GP bucket. Does everyone on here recommend a thum for the ex??? What size truck do you need to haul a 20 ton machine? Just a standard low loader tri axle?? cheers alex
alot of guys put 20 ton tag-a-long behind single, tandem or triaxle dump trucks. A two axle lowboy is usually 25 ton and a tripple 35 and up. Some use step decks, both step deck & lowboy use a road tractor to pull. Thumbs are like 4x4 on a pickup. If you decide to go with a thumb, go hydraulic, you will use it alot more cause you dont have to get out and pull pins to use it.
I agree with Sultan, working stumps with my 240 (26 tonne) I am always wishing i had a 330. It would likely take an hour to get a 48" tree down, more like an afternoon if it was just a stump. Then once its out of the hole, i wouldn't be able to move it. 48" is a BIG tree. As far as ditching goes, i'm doing a ditch right now that is running 5-6 feet deep. I am taking my time to do a good job, but can only manage 80'/hr yesterday. Unless you need to be small, the bigger the better. That's what i say.
Ok fellas had a look at everything and i think the machine for me is a 9 ton Hitachi Its a UH04. Comes with a heap bits and bobs. Will need one drive motor rebuilt, at least when i do it, i can see it will be done properly. I assume it will have a bit more umph than a 5 tonner but wont be a hassle to move either. Hopefully it will be well suited to most of the jobs i do. And if not will just hire a much bigger machine. Cheerio Alex
Gday all, sorry if i may seem a bit slow, how many cubic yards can a 5 ton machine move per hour. Now this is when the machine is digging through clay, fairly well compacted. And the other question is, does a 10 ton machine move twice as much material per hour than a 5 ton machine?? Thanks for your excellent help Alex
Tom G. You sure make that baby work! and fast! I like the part where you roll the second rock up onto your boom cyl. Klunk! They must make those Bobcats tough! LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0V---h2Qnw
A 5 tonner will dig about 50 cubic yards of clay per hour. A 10 tonner will move at least twice as much, perhaps a tad more than that when in hard digging.
Haha, thanks! The rock actually hit the blade, if you look rite after you hear the thump, i back up and in the center of the blade you can see the white mark the rock made when it hit. I think the rock would have done some damage if it had hit the cylinder, it was a big rock!!
i have a 5ton cat and a 12ton cat. the 5ton digger has a .16m3 digging bucket (i think it is ) and the 12toner a .66 so the bigger digger will do more than 2times a 5toner. you dont normaly get a 5ton digger for bulk digging ,they shine in tidy work,tight areas,small jobs etc. my 305ccr dose more hrs per year than my 311cu every year for the past 6 years.
I have a PC75 (18,000 lbs) with an offset boom and zero turn radius house, blade and Thumb. It can carry a 5000-6000 Lb Rock resting precariously on the blade, and place a 2 tone rock in a wall under the right conditions, but it is best handling 2000 lbs and under. I’ve dented up the house when rocks slipped. Stumps are all different. I struggle with a 6" oak in rocky ground or rooted amongst other trees, have pulled 12”-16” pines a birches right out of the ground with a few minutes of work and yanked 24” pines with root balls the size of a small car working the machine very hard for an hour or so. Every time I tackle something like that I swear it will be the last one. That being said, a sub 10 tonne excavator main work should not be stumping, digging full basements, or filling trucks. I did dig my two ponds ( about +1000 yards) I would say my machine could dig fast enough to keep a 2 yd loader busy moving the spoil pile.
Going to have a look at a 2.5 ton machine, its a Kubota KX 024 with a cab and such, will fit on my 12 ft tandem trailer. With a thum on it, it will be a good size. Not too big and not too small. So going by what has been said i should be able to move around 25 cubic yards per hour. Does anyone have experience when working with machines of this size, is it there benefit in deep ripping the ground before digging??? Does the time spent ripping get made up by using a bigger bucket in shifting the spoils? Cheers Alex
48" stumps with a 2.5 tonne machine?? Good luck!
OK gents i owe you all an apology, we had a Mini ex come and do some work for us, was a 1.5 tonner. Never have i seen such a toy in my life. The guy was digging a drain near some of our bigger trees (i.e 48 inches across) well it took time 7.5 hours of work to dig a drain 80m long. The machine was like a rocking horse, relief valves going constantly and just sliding all over the place. To his credit the guy managed to break up some 6 inch roots and pull chunks out. So i have well and truly learnt that a 10ton machine would be minimum for digging ditches and not to be shaken to pieces. Can anyone suggest specific machines that are good for this type of work?? I've been told zero swing isn't as good for digging as the counter weight isn't far enough back??? Any suggestions on the bigger machines please feel free. Cheers alex
My Case 135 (13.5 tonne) is able to dig out the stumps. It is a zero swing. I can't compare it to a regular counterweight machine as I don't have enough experience on one. I have loaded trucks with a EX350 Hitachi and it was tippy with a full bucket. You just work within the machine's capacity. I think you need to explore what machines will have good parts and service in your area. That is very important. A fellow bought a $15k older Komatsu. Final drive went. They found a used one in Texas. That's a long way from here. The cost of his machine quickly doubled.
Haven't played with 48" trees, dug utilities thru a section off woods with 24" hard and soft wood not 10' from the ditch line though. I was able to maintain 125' per hr. with a 6t+ takeuchi tb 53fr, digging 36" deep. For residential property improvement work, Its about perfect. I think you should go rent some different machines and see what size your lookin for. If you get above 4.5 ton your going to need a truck larger than a pickup to move it around, but that gets you above what harry homeowner can rent usually. Zero tail is very nice to have with the smaller machines, it lets you work in confined area better. Speaking from my experience, you will end up needing it once a month or more. Get a hydraulic thumb, you will thanks me later.
Gday all again, i was talking to a local contractor the other day, he has a 1.5 ton machine and he says he does house site cuts with it!!!! On rare occasions as he has so much other work. But i could not believe that at 91 per hour it could be affordable for people. Granted he is extremely experienced in all heavy equipment, and does some of the best work i have seen, for the size of machine he has. The machine consumes 20L per day (10 hrs), good proffits there i think . Just food for thought cheers Alex
This thread has been really helpful to me, thank you. I need your advice. Anyone who is reading this. I am not an excavator operator, but may be soon, so I really know very little about all this. I have the opportunity to buy a 1980 poclain CX75 (or equivalent). It is about 9 tons and has a 24 inch bucket. It has recently been serviced, with over $5000 going into Engine Repairs, and apparently it is running "perfect". Here are the tasks I am hoping to achieve with it. I will try to be specific, and I would love to hear from you if you think that I can do it or not. Dig a pond about 200cubic yards. this land has lots of stumps in it with max size of 25 inches. Most are under 20. they are oak and hickory, and in a thick clay soil with NO rocks. (NE missouri). Put in a road, which will be built through a forested area, on pretty hilly terrain (It is about 1/4 of a mile long, and I will need to put in three culverts). Dredging out an existing pond. Just reaching as far as I can and putting the sludge to the side. So, I guess it is two questions. Are those things possible with this mid size machine? And second, can I, as a rookie, with no experience (I have about 3 hours logged!) do this work? I am a fast learner and pretty smart about strategizing, so I think I can learn the machines? The process of digging the pond is not a problem. I have worked with excavator drivers on the digging of three ponds/dams, and know the process. It is really just the skill of actually doing it I am wondering about. Also, does $9,000 sound like an exceptional deal for this excavator. It is an old-timer that listed it in a local classified ads paper. Just so you know, I realize that a newer and bigger excavator would be better, but I cannot really afford to spend more money that this. I am hoping to buy it, use it, and sell it, and thus save money on these projects. I have a lot more time than money! (Do you think being able to sell and excavator like this will be any problem?) Thanks so much for your help.
Are you able to do repairs yourself? Are replacement parts available? You could easily have a $9000 boat anchor if something breaks. Those stumps in clay will be a workout for sure.
I must admit that I don't know what size the CX 75 is, or much else for that matter, so it is hard to answer your question. If it holds up I bet you could do what you are asking of it. 200 cybic yards is not much. Stumps can be tough for a little machine. I recommend ripping up the roots and pushing the tree down (then cut it up) so the weight of the tree helps pull the stump. I am suspicious of a machine that has had 50-60% of it's total worth put in it for repairs. It does not make sense. The machine would have been scrapped instead of repaired. I don't know about parts or any support. I just googled 1980 Poclain cx 75 and ALL hits were in a foreign language. Be careful.
I bought my ex120-5 without even operating a excavator before. I did however have someone who was competent check the machine over before I bought it...but anyways, I don't regret it one bit. Within a couple hours of seat time, you'll get the hang of it. If I where you, I'd try to buy a newer machine, and as big as you can haul. Just my 02.
Given all the electronics on machines now and to a lesser extent the older 90's based machines are people keeping well clear of these machines due to all the electrical faults? Or possible faults in the future...
Yeah as tootalltimmy said, nothing more expensive than a cheap excavator. Far as the other question go, if you are handy with using machines you should get the hang of using an excavator. I dig out stumps that size with my 1.6 tonne excavator, piece of pi....pie if you can get at different angles to the stump and dig around it, when you can only get at the so and so from one side it makes life that much more interesting. However in hard clay you will want nice sharp tiger teeth, which also come in handy for ripping roots to shreds. Working on a slope is always a danger, there you really want to think and plan, does this machine have a certified ROPS? If it has there should be a tag on the structure. Dredging, you want to make sure not to go past the point of not return, if you do get into a situation where the machine is stuck you can use the arm to help pull, pushing with the arm is not such a good idea as it will tend to lift the front of the machine and push the back in. You also gotta know when to stop and get a tow, sometimes it's a lot easier to get a tow early rather than try and dig your way out but end up further down, requiring a bigger tow machine. 9K for a ex sounds good if it is a looked after machine, do you know someone with ex experience that can help you look the machine over? Try and have a look at the receipt for work done on the machine.
Thanks for all your comments. My plan is to contact a guy that has been a heavy machinery mechanic for at least 20 years and hire him to come with me to see the machine. I would like to have him get in there and look at the engine, and even give it a test dig, and see what he thinks. In terms of parts, I have no idea. Could any of you help me out here? Would it be difficult to find replacement parts for a 1980 Poclain Excavator? (I am imagining so, but don't know.) The deal with 50-60% of the machine value being spent on repairs is this. The current owner bought the machine in a huge auction from a company that was going out of business, along with a bunch of other big machines that he uses for his rock quarry. He is selling it right on, without using it, but says that the previous owner just put $5000 into the engine. He got it at a very cheap price, and is happy to pass it along. I am hoping that I can put minimal hours on it, complete my jobs, and sell it on for about the same price (before it breaks). Am I taking too big a risk? Thanks