Hi All, I have a grey market Mitsubishi MM40SR and unfortunately recently have some horrible noises coming out of one of the final drive has begun to seize and make some bad noises. I am told it will likely need a complete rebuild, so I am hunting around for a rebuild kit for it and so far have made little progress. I am comfortable with doing the work, or getting the work done, I just need to get the parts. Any thoughts or ideas?
HI, I have a Mitsubishi MS40-8, and I have also been through rebuilding a final drive recently. If you know what brand the drive is maybe we can see if it is the same. Looking for parts for mine was not easy but in the end we got it done. you can also send some pictures, maybe we can figure it out that way. Mine I had to open the gear side to find some model numbers.
Good morning, thank you so much for messaging. I have yet to take anything apart, however maybe you can provide some advice on what I need to look for? I believe there is a big RING CLIP that I need to remove to pull the outside cover off, and should be able to see the gears etc inside at that point. Where did you manage to find parts? I see your location is Taiwan, is that where you found parts? I'd be happy to exchange personal contact info (SKYPE or otherwise) so we can better communicate. Thanks again, and I look forward to hearing back from you
hi, if your drive is similar to mine, there should be a steel wire in the groove between the body of the drive and the front plate. You have to use a small pointed tool, like a straight pick or very small screwdriver. you run it along in the groove until you feel where the two ends of the ring meet. you then have to manage to insert your tool between the two ends and push it from the back out towards you. you can then gently make it come out along the circumference. try not to pull too hard or you will bend it. if you clean the groove with a metal brush and some oil beforehand, it makes it very easy to come out. and before you open it, you can take most of the oil out from one of the plugs. Yes I am in Taiwan, but still it was very difficult to find parts for this drive because it's quite old. Luckily I managed to find some suppliers in China that were very helpful in providing parts from pictures and measurements rather then serial numbers. In the end it all worked out fine. Kind of a big job to do on my own, it was a total mess inside when I first opened it and the thing weighs a ton to lift by hand, but I really saved a lot of money compared to replacing it or having somebody else fix it for me. you can send me a personal message if you like, but I think is good to leave information out there for people who are having the same kind of problems. Let me know how you get on and send some picture if you can, they always help. All the best
Without any pic's the description is like a HY-Dash/Nabtesco drive.There should be a plate on the hydraulic motor which gives the information required. If where the wire joins isn't at the bung holes then locate the ends then drill a 3mm hole into the grove. Now you can push the wire out. Keeping weight on the cover plate also helps. Be careful on reassembly, there is a steel button that retains the sun gear which can drop into the hub which causes lots of tears. Edit; I have a supplier near me who may have parts in stock but he is in Australia
I for the life of me cannot figure out where the end of the wire is. Seems to be solid all the way around. I can pry the cover a bit and move it, I've cleaned everything and can see very well in the gap. Nowhere, I mean nowhere can I find ends of a clip.
Some more photos
Yes they can be a PITA to find the ends. Use a small screwdriver or a very small cold chisel and knock it in between the cover and wire it will/may then open a gap in the wire. Using a nail run the pointed end around the wire until you find the gap. If you can put a jack onto the centre of the cover and press it in inwards about 2-3mm also is a huge help. BTW the wire is made of spring steel so if it gets damaged, ie straightened it will have to be replaced. The burr on the hub between 2 and 3 o'clock in the first pic needs to go as well. If you can get a new wire and removing the cover becomes a bigger saga then drill(3-4mm) a hole from the outside of the hub and threw the wire which cuts it. I have nearly got to this point a number of times then found the ends. Can now.
Hello, I have scraped and cleaned and poked and hammered and done just about everything possible. Still unable to find end or make the wire/clip move seperate from the lid. Any other possible suggestions? Btw this is being done on the machine not a bench. Lid moves in and out when I pry and hit with a hammer etc.
One other suggestion, pay my airfare, board and tucker and I'll do it for you without labour charges.
LOL. Appreciate the offer! And the free advice. Just can't seem to find the end of it. Managed to see the ring move a bit when I hit it with a screwdriver and a hammer.
My last post was with tongue in cheek, airfare from Australia maybe a bit hexey. One other thing which may help, remove the drain and filler bungs so you can spin the cover plate. Doing that may just grab the wire enough to open the gap.
What I do is I get a flat small screw driver and inserted between the plate and the ring, then push outward (i.e. make the wire go more inside the lip that retains it in the side wall. I do this all around every 20-30 degrees, if I see the whole wire moving I go ahead and repeat, if I see that where I push moves and a little ahead doesn't move, the split is somewhere there. So then with the screw driver still inserted and pushed in, I use another pointed tool to locate the ends. The point is pushing the ring outward makes the gap at the ends bigger so you can insert a tool to get it out, the problem is that dirt packs in with the ring and makes it really tight, maybe you can try and clean it with compressed air or WD40. It took me a few hours the first time around, but if you persist you will do it. By the way from the pictures I see our drives are very similar, I send you a picture of mine. good luck
So, I decided to a bit Red Neck on it... I finally found what I thought was the two ends of the wire. Still unable to get anything to move in any direction, I ground the lip off the outer edge of the "drum"? (Look at right hand side of drum where there is a fresh groove) so that I was then able to slip a tiny screwdriver behind the wire to push it forward. Once I did this, it was finally able to be removed. Once the wire was out, I still couldn't get any edge to pry successfully on the lid (although it was moving some). So, I happened to have a LONG Bolt from a wheel puller that seemed to be the same thread. Looking in the hole, I saw nothing to damage, so screwed the bolt in the drain hole until it began to push against the back of the "Drum"? lifting the lid. I switched back and forth between a couple of drain holes and finally was able to remove the lid. Now... Dry as Dry can be... (Because I never knew I needed to "Maintain" this, and obviously the guy before me didn't either) LOL. I found that there was NOTHING broken and in fact I was lucky that it was a simple C Clip that fell off one of the gears (See top gear in photo), and the gear was "walking" off the shaft, causing the teeth to bind. Slid gear back on ALL the way, will put brand new C Clip on the gear. Will put lid and ring back in place, then add a Liter or so of Gear Oil (Can you recommend the weight I should use?), make sure I add some to the other side as well, and back in business...
You mentioned in your OP about it binding and making bad noises. The main bearing looks kaput ( rusted) and I betsha all the other bearings are the same. Only one reason for no oil in there, the duo-cone seal will be nakered. Adding oil won't fix all this.
Yes, the binding was the gear not meshing with the other gears because it was out. Sorry what is the bearing you are talking about please?? I don't know what parts are what here. Can a guy get a rebuild kit for this thing? New seals and stuff to refresh it? I'm not opposed to giving it a once over first. Just don't even know where to begin finding parts or what parts I need.
Hey man, congratulations on removing the cover, you solved the puzzle, somehow... If you look at the picture I sent you there is a ring of ball bearings between the plate held by the three bolts and the body of the drive, I don't see anything like that in yours and that's kind of strange. Either they have been eaten up by the no oil situation or it's a different design from mine, but I doubt that because they look exactly the same. Anyways, if you have run this drive without oil for any amount of time there will be damage, it's difficult to see with the plate on. What you could do is remove the gears and try to spin the drive by hand by rotating one of the three large shafts by holding on to it with lock pliers. See if the drive spins freely, then you are more lucky than me. What Tones said is right, the duo-cone seal might have failed, but it could also be the o-ring on the front plate that you removed that leaked. Anyways, no oil is most definitely a death sentence for these drives. Whatever you do, don't take out the three main bolts just yet, or the whole thing will come apart . If you see that the drive spins by hand, I would put the gears back on and make it rotate at the slowest speed possible without the cover and listen very carefully for any noise, a good drive is very quiet, you only hear gears engaging. What I would do in your shoes I would then put the cover back on and fill with oil, run it for a minute , take the oil out and look for metal particles. I mean, what I would really do is take the thing apart and properly inspect it, it needs to be cleaned anyway,damaged or not, but I don't know if you are comfortable with doing that. If so let me know and I can explain what to do. I am pretty sure I can help you find the parts you need if you cannot find them by yourself, like I said previously I was in the same position you are now a few months ago. Even if you have to replace everything, like I did, it will not be prohibitive to do so. Let us know how you get on and what's your plan. all the best p.s. did you find any numbers on the back of the front plate?
The outer 3 dots to me looks like a bearing. If you pull the sun (centre) gear you should be able to turn the hub by hand.
You guys are awesome, and I seriously appreciate your help. I am not afraid to tear this thing down, I don't however want to tear it down and find I can't get parts. Is there a way to get a basic rebuild kit for this thing prior to ripping it apart? How do I identify what I need? (I am fairly comfortable with stuff like this, as I have built many engines etc... in the past). Just don't want to waste time and not have the right parts on hand. When I did some poking around prior to this I found that a Mitsubishi MM40SR apparently has a "AEW00035" Final Drive part number. Does this mean anything to you folks? I will go back out there today and see if there are any other numbers to check out. Also, if I was going to tear this down, would it be safe to say next steps are: - Gears Off - Undo 3 Big Bolts Will the bearing explode on me if I do this?
So, the "3 big bolts" hold everything together, if you undo them the whole final drive with the casing will come loose, and the ball bearings at the front and the back will end up everywhere. What you would need to do is remove the hydraulic hoses from the back and plug them and the ports on the travel motor, then undo the bolts that hold the travel motor to the frame of the excavator. You should support the drive on the gear side so that it doesn't just drop to the ground. The thing is very very heavy, maybe you can remove the sprocket prior to all this to make it more light. When you remove the drive from the excavator you can rest it flat with the 3 big bolts looking up, that way when you undo them gravity will keep everything in place. Take off the gears, undo the bolts and then you can remove the big plate. What you find inside is this together with a bunch of loose ball bearings. Every shaft has four needle bearings, two cylindrical and two conical, and my guess is they are toasted and that's what was making that noise you heard, because if it was the gears you would have damage there and I cannot see any from the picture you posted. but you never know... anyways any damage will be self evident once you get to this point. If you dig deeper you will find more ball bearings and the duo-cone seal, which most probably also needs to be replaced, and not so difficult to find. From my experience you have to take things part and measure them to find the right replacement, but maybe you can find parts already since you have a serial number, I didn't. But I would still double check with the part in my hand if I were you. Let us know how you get on, good luck
Perfect, seems relativly straight forward. I am still a bit hesitant until I at least know where I "MIGHT" find some parts. I have called a few different locations and have yet to find a place that even suggests the possibility of having parts. Are you able to recommend some places before I bust this thing open and end up not being able to get any parts?
My 2c. If that final drive has run with no oil in the bearings will all be fcuked. No ifs, and, or buts, they will be totally trashed. If you fill with oil now without disassembling all the crud that's in there will mix with the oil and turn into grinding compound that will take out the gears & shafts as well. They appear to have survived in reasonable condition so far. As Clint Eastwood said in that movie many years ago - "Do you feel lucky?" IMHO looking at those photos you should be trembling in fear...…. As Giubu said above, pull the final drive off the machine and stand it up vertical. That way nothing will fall out when you remove the three big bolts (tip: loosen the bolts slightly before removing the final drive from the excavator, it'll make disassembly much easier when you do come to remove them. Only tighten them again when you get the whole unit back on again). The bearings are probably standard taper roller bearings from SKF or NTN or whatever. They should be available, along with O-rings and Duo-Cone seals, but it's the shafts, gears, etc, that you might well struggle with.
Well, like Nige said above, the thing is probably totally fcuked, so at this point I think it's more important to check what parts you need to replace than to worry about where to source them. Then if you really struggle to find replacement parts, I can talk to a few suppliers here and see what we can find, at the end of the day my machine is way older than yours and still I managed to find parts for it, so in your case it can't be that bad... Still I would need to know certain dimensions and you can only get those if you take it apart. For sure it will be cheaper than replacing the whole thing. Best of luck
Awesome, thanks guys I truly appreciate all your advice and guidance! I will be heading out Moose hunting in a couple weeks. Might see if I can get this thing torn down before I leave, but I have a lot on my plate at the moment. I will keep you all posted and update you on my progress. Talk soon!
I did a very quick search and found Final Drive Centre www.finaldrive.eu They list parts that you need plus there is a diagram of your hub. Just where to get parts in Canada or US I have no idea but can recommend these fellers www.travelmotorsdirect.com.au Before you remove the hub loosen the 3 bolts but don't remove them. They probably will be tight and unless you have an engine stand or some such you will end up swearing like a trooper
So just to be clear, losen the 3 big bolts from the HUB side first because they are so damn tight... Then go to back side, remove hoses from hydraulic motor and the large bolts from that side, so entire assembly will come off... Then herniate a nut while moving the entire assembly indoors where I can then disassemble on a bench easier?
Pretty much..... But in the grand scheme of things it’s not that big or heavy, maybe 75kg complete. So it shouldn’t be that much of a struggle to move it around. Get another pair of hands to help you with the heavier lifts if you can.
yeah, that sounds about right, you can keep the sprocket on and roll it on the ground if you have to move it far. Or you can disassembly it there and then, piece by piece it's much lighter. Don't forget to plug the hydraulic ports on the motor or you will get tons of crap in it. An impact wrench should do the trick on those bolts.
Ya, I figured. I will probably remove the sprocket at the least. I have some plugs for the motor plugs etc... I am pretty sure that this should all go fairly well. Would there be potential for any machining requirements? Or if nothing is broken / completely warn out then its just replacing Bearings/Seals etc?
I would hope that it's just a case of bearings & seals if everything else cleans up. You'll just have to keep your fingers crossed. The numbers I see for the final drive with the travel motor still in place but with the sprocket removed are around 60kg.
Don't forget you are working on a machine that can lift. With the motor hydraulic's caped the rest of machine cam still work