I may have a line on a complete model 35 backhoe attachment. Can it be mounted in place of a model 33 on a 1968 580CK? My model 33 is very loose and parts have been very difficult to find. The model 35 looks like a great upgrade and parts are available(like pins and bushings). I can weld and fabricate parts if needed but it looks like it might mount right up.
I think my title is not catchy enough, or doesn't grab the attention I was hoping. So many Case backhoe experienced guys on this site I thought it would be a challenge for them. Can I ask the questions a different way? PS thanks to the few that have read this thread.
Be patient. I would guess most folks don't visit this site every day. There may be somebody who will stop in and see your question and answer it. I don't know the answer to your question.
Someone may be able to help. Prolly not many of those conversions have been done.
I've never seen a 35 backhoe on a 580ck, not saying it won't work, but I'm thinking it might be a bit heavy for that tractor. But hey if you can get a good replacement hoe go for it and let us know.
I was thinking the same thing about the weight - you may be doing a permanent hole shot - my CK is already light in the front and the 35 looks a lot beefier. If it's just pins and bushings and it hasn't worn into the steel structure, it's not such a big deal - not as easy as just hanging a different hoe on there though. Some pivots can have aftermarket bushings welded on the outside of the joint if the wear is extreme or to avoid the time and expense. I did my lower main pivot with some that I think I got through the Case dealer because there was no internet back in those days. There's pics in one of the CK rebuild threads.
The weight of the backhoe had not crossed my mind. Is there any resource I could go to for the weights of the Model 33 vs Model 35? Looking at a 580CK vs 580B they seen to be very close in weight. 580CK Gas, Less Converter, standard backhoe 9100lbs 580B Gas, dry clutch, standard backhoe, 9224lbs; Loader only configuration, 5799lbs. I did find one other weight. 4' extandahoe only, 3920lbs. This is not the extendahoe but I was surprised by the weight of the backhoe attachment.
My 580 CK B operators manual says that it weights over 11K with loader and backhoe. I remember the tractor weight alone was about 5800 or so. I'd say the backhoe itself weights over 4000.
tractordata.com says 11,000 lbs. for the B. I have a CK with a 33 and a C with a 35. The CK has 14.9 - 24 tires. The C has 17.5 - 24. Just to make it really confusing, I have a K with extendahoe with 16.9 - 24. I think I'd just fix the one that's on there if it was me unless you plan on doing a lot of digging and then I'd say get a different machine because it's old and has probably already done a lot of digging. It's a good yard rig but it's best days are behind it unless it had an easy life or someone already sunk a bunch of time and money in it. Like you said, parts aren't easy to find and if you use it, you'll break it. It's your call. How much is the 35? Will the seller let you see if it will hang on your CK before finalizing the deal? How much do you use the hoe? How much do you use the loader? What kind of shape are your rear tires in? How much in misc. costs to adapt the hydraulics to yours if it does fit? - assuming it's not plug and play. Do the math. You said you could weld and fabricate. Why not weld and fabricate what ever your's needs - unless the 35 is really cheap. Sorry, not much help, I know.
All good points. I can get the Model 35 for under $1k. It will cost me more than that in pins and bushings if the were still available. I have a neighbor with a 580B that I will look at to compare. As for hydraulics there is just a supply line and a return line, between both units I should have all the parts I need. 11,000lbs for the 580B is with the diesel engine and the extandahoe, just trying to compare apples to apples. And I can sell off the parts from the 580CK knowing that they are older and parts are getting hard/impossible to find. It does come down to money. I just use it more for hobby that anything else and I love to tinker. Same reason I put a Duramax in my Yukon XL, because I could.
You may need more counterweight up front. I would be concerned about the added stress on the tractor frame when roading it or using the front end loader.
Keep us posted with your progress and take some pics. I'd like to see the hybrid.
Using the weights listed on the sales brochures on this site: https://www.casece.com/northamerica/en-us/resources/prior-models I have determined that the model 33 backhoe is only a few pounds lighter than the model 35 backhoe. Depending on how they list the weights the Model 35 weighs between 3,000 and 3,400 lbs in the standard configuration. The extandahoe adds about 400 lbs. Mounting is different but still not sure how much different.
using your own figures from post #7: "580B Gas, dry clutch, standard backhoe, 9224lbs; Loader only configuration, 5799lbs " means the 35 weighs 3425 lbs +/- Maybe the thicker steel on the frame and stabilizers on the 35 is offset by thinner metal elsewhere like the boom and stick? My 33 has cast areas where the 35 uses steel plate. Tractordata.com says 580B is 6000lbs for loader-tractor and 11000lbs for loader backhoe. They also list the weight of the extendahoe as 3920lbs. Good luck. Post some pics of the progress.
There is no direct path to get to the weight of the model 33 backhoe so I have to back into it. Brochure states the CK tractor is 3630lbs bare and 9100 with backhoe and loader. If you make it all the way to the 580D it breaks down the weights better and you can find that the loader is around 2000lbs depending on the bucket. So if I use the 2000lbs for loader, 9100-3630-2000=3470lbs for the backhoe. While a lot of assumptions are made I find the model 33 seems very similar to the model 35 in weight. I tried to stop in last night to the neighbor to get some dimension off his 580B he was not home so I will have to try again. Just in case anyone here has a 580B, 580C, 580D or 580E handy I am looking for a couple measurements on the model 35 mounts. 1. Distance between lower mounts. Inside to inside. 2. Distance between upper mounts. Inside to inside. 3. Distance between upper and lower mounts. Center to center. Thanks for all the responses.
A lot of the pins and bushings you probably will need you can get on line.
I've looked and I can find one from this place and another from that place, blah, blah, blah. I'm talking with Dale Weiss at e-backhoeparts.com as recommended by several folks here at the forum, and I can see why he comes highly recommended. Very knowledgeable on the Case 580 series and seems to have (or can get) what I need so far. Prices seem to be reasonable as well. I don't think I'll regret doing business with him at all...
This thread is not about where to get pins an bushings, that is being discussed in other threads. This thread is about fitting a Model 35 backhoe attachment to a 1968 580CK that came with a Model 33 backhoe. I do not mean to be rude or offensive just need to stay on topic before I loose the chance to pick up the Model 35 for a great price. Don't want to jump into it without a plan to make it happen.
Well, you were... I'll happily stop responding to your messages.
Why don't you buy it before someone else doe's ? Even if you don't do the conversion it could be parted out for more than the asking price. Unless you don't want to go thru the trouble of parting it out. Is that your #33 in the photos ?
The photos are of the Model 35, hoping to get someone on here to put a tape measure on those locations.
If I decided to pick it up and not use it, or complete the swap and then part out the Model 33 where would be the best place to list the parts?
Here on HEF would be my first choice. There is a for sale / wanted forum here----> HeavyEquipmentForums Craigslist and Facebook are other options. eBay if you have an account will get a lot of hits.
I'd try Craigslist. You'd need someone local. It's not gold it's old. The shipping charges are murder to anyone who isn't local. Those measurements you want look easy on a hoe that's off the machine. What part of this conversion were you going to do besides back up to it and hook it on? You might have to change your motto from "because I can" to "because WE can". If it was me, I'd take the measurements off my machine and then go see the 35 and if it fits - buy it. It's just hangs there and hooks up with hydraulics - there's no PTO to worry about. If you want it that bad, make it fit. Do the weld and fabricate thing if you have to. If not, fix the 33. What is the "upgrade" factor, anyway? It's not an extendahoe. Does it have more reach - or is it just in better shape and parts are easier to find? What parts? Pins and bushings?
Do you know the history of the 35? How do you know it's any tighter than your 33? You might be opening a can of worms. That valve body looks to have been leaking for some time. If it were in great shape it might be worth considering but sometimes the devil you know is a better choice. It's your time and money, either way. I still think I'd fix the 33. Pins and bushings are no big deal if you haven't worn through the bushings completely - and even some of them can be easily fixed with external bushings. How much digging are you planning on doing, anyway?
greasenut has the backhoe off of his 580B. PM him or ask him in his thread if he could get the measurements for you. Read post #25 here ----> HeavyEquipmentForums
I have sent a message to greasenut, thanks for the heads up. Grady, you make a mean argument. I have finished the digging on my shop and will only be using the backhoe for erecting the building. You are right I can not do this alone and have a friend who will help me with the conversion. I am most concerned about availability of parts, my hoe is worn out and I can’t find the replacement parts for less than it will cost to replace with a 10 year newer one. I would be buying someone else’s old hoe just to have it around for odds and ends. Is it any more crazy then spending months and many$$$ to polish and paint an old machine? By the way I love the idea of making it look all shiny and new.
What's "worn out" mean? slop in the pins and bushings? That can be fixed on the cheap - but you can't just order the parts from amazon and you seem uninterested in that route anyway. Age is relative. Hours are more important than years, and grease and attention to maintenance is more important than both. I hope the 35 works out but I'm skeptical of you getting out of it any cheaper or easier than fixing what you've got. It's hard to determine the condition of a hoe until it's mounted so it's a bit of a gamble. Roll the dice and good luck.
I measured mine and the distance on the lower support is 28 1/2" center to center, the supports are 1" thick. the top support has about 3' play back and forth in the same ballpark. The distance on the hoe center to center vertical is 18 1/2. again the upper supports on the tractor have a lot of play vertical and horizontal as they are two long plates/bars that are pinned off the frame before the axle and lever out back over axle. I'm not the best technical writer but I hope this helps.
Greasenut ; You probably know there is a tension rod on each side of the mounting bracket that can be adjusted. Here are the torque values for a 580B.
I'm probably too late and didn't check your location but I do know of a '70 580ck being scrapped. I can check on the condition of its hoe. It was disassembled for transport.
I am not sure why you think that would be an upgrade, but if I were to attempt the mount, I would get the other side of the assembly. (where it bolts to the axle/frame. Then you can assure of getting her on and off. Another thing to check is the pressures that run the hoe. The 35 may run at higher or lower pressure.
Here are some Pictures of my 33. The mounts are different:
Quick check on Case shows the relief pressures are within 100psi but the newer machines have slightly higher flow rates. Means the machine would be just as strong just a touch slower.
I get longer reach, newer cylinders, newer valves and more force with the model 35 over the 33. Mostly a because I can more than because I need to.
And my current model 33 needs major work and parts are either very scarce or unavailable.
I get You, check those guys ( https://www.skidsteers.com/ ) for time to time. They have new and used as well attachments.