I'm not trying to fan a flame here and if the moderators don't like it they can shutdown this thread down. my question is with the advent of technology and electronics has some of the safety items bocome to complex for there own good. my point being we had a primemover ls1300 back in the early 90's. it had a lock down bar that also unlocked the pedels. Now if you pulled the bar down and the pedals did not operat you know somthings wrong in the linkage. this was an easy diagnos and fix. would somethig like this be safer being that you would be more will to fix then override. Honest question my dad and i had not to long ago.
Nothing wrong with having this discussion. I'm not sure why you'd think there would be. :beatsme
Some manufacturers have gone way overkill with redundant safety lockouts. I believe a simple seat switch and lapbar is more than sufficient to prevent injury. I also do not advocate anyone overriding safety functions. They are there for a reason. The one time you don't have them is the opportunity for a fatality.
I believe all the safety stuff has gone overboard. I'm not saying I'm against safety but common sense is the 1st and formost act for safety. The problem with all the safety devices is that it takes away from the common sense. There are many new operators today that rely on safety devices instead of learning their equipment. This is an overall judgement not just about one type/piece of equipment. I'll take a person that respects and knows machinery anyday over a kill switch located on the thingamabob.
Well said Maddog.
If the firearms opponents could fit a computer on our guns you bet it would be there. As it is their main safety is common sence. I would not want to trust my life to a BICS controller if the bad guys are carrying six-guns. In this world of lawsuit happy irresponsible consumers we are going to see more instead of less of what Big Brother calls safety. Just my 2 cents.
I came read a thread on a similer topic and didn't want to start another xxxx storm. what got me thinking about this is how many times a selanoid or lock-out valve fails and your machine is stuck till you find and fix. A simpler solution has to be out there. don't get me wrong i'v almost been killed because someone over-road the lock-out bar on an excavator. guy stood up to look and the swing took off and just missed me before slamming into my track loader.
Yeah. I know which one you're talking about. The problem there wasn't the subject, but the level at which the ensuing discussion was being carried on. What I want to know now is why you'd think you could get away with cheating the auto-censor when you had every reasonable expectation that I'd be reading your reply? :cool2
Due to the fact everyone is sue happy these days equipment companys do what they must to protect themselves. I have worked for John Deere, Cat, CNH, Terex dealers and every company battled to develope safe machines that no one would be injured by. I have seen first hand the accidents and been in court because of them. Todays safety systems are not complicated if you know how to trouble shoot but a jackleg with no knowledge of electrical or hydraulic circuits train wrecks the safety system with his cutting, bypassing, Im smarter than design engineer thinking. I will give you a example of why safety circuits are needed...... When Deere introduced the 240, and 250 skid steers they had NO lock outs on pedal controls for hydraulics. In short order Deere was receiving reports of operators being maimed because of them climbing in and out of loader while it was running. It even stated in operators manual NOT to exit machine with engine running. Guess what happend next...... Several lawsuits were filed against Deere over their building a "unsafe machine" and all units were updated with hydraulic lockouts and new units came from the factory with them installed. No matter how idiot proof you think a machine is someone sooner or later will breed a better idiot.
totaly understand what your saying motrack. I will be the first to admit that electronic diagnosis is my weakness. but in defence of the idiots, i have had times where i bumped a lever with the safties on and thought "man i could of realy hurt someone". Just takes one time when you let your gard down. BALM someones hurt.
Now there's your quote of the day.
I quite enjoy the new safety lockouts and what not. Today I was working on a bobcat 974 which is much older than me haha and just finished putting a new head on it. Got it running and wanted to give it a bath than let it get up to temp. So I parked it in the wash bay, got out and left it at idle. Washed the motor off than went and cleaned my bay put away tools. Came back out the man door and the machine was gone, so first thought was I guess it was in the way and someone moved it. So I walked around the building to where we park out customer unit and from there I saw the 974 creeping across the yard. So ya after having a laugh I was grateful that we have a big yard and no one was hurt but in one sense I had gotten to used to the new machines and electronic park brakes.
I'll agree with that! Kinda like the old Bobcat 743's, never never walk off and leave one running. Fella I used to work with doing machine service just purchased a new Ford Super Duty mech truck. He was oil changing/servicing a 743. While he was working on it, with engine running, found he had to run to porta john. Got his business done, stepped out of john to find the 743 had backed up against truck, hunching on right front fender just in front of passenger door, made a nice little crease in fender. All he could say was just damn!
The 843's would do that too....:cool2
the moral to these stories is ...... don't buy bobcat
This is an assumption to think that everyone has the "common sense" people don't have the same appreciation for their mortality or how delicate the human body is.most safety devices in the beginning were very easily sidestepped so now they are built in in such a manor that it is virtually impossible to by pass............so remember................................... Common sense is not common practice................
What? You think the old Cases wouldn't do the same? Guess again.