BIL works METRO St Louis in their Bus department, been there since 1977 so is pretty well set in stone to stay until HAS to retire. They were having issues with the new electric Buses as to charge stations so the Local Provider supplied NO COST for substations to feed JUST the recharge stations these needed. Finally came up with a figure on usage. 13,800v Feeder to reduce volts to 480 3 ph. Stations draw right at 3400kw/hr (and yes that is a ACCURATE Figure) for A Bus on recharge for five hours averaged. If I did my numbers correctly that would equate under a Commercial Rate to be around FOUR Times the cost to fuel a Diesel Bus that used 40gal fuel per day. And these can run but HALF the hours per day a Diesel bus can.
In our area, anybody over 60 or so kw also gets charged a demand charge based on the maximum demand in the last year or so, I think. That is on top of the rate per kwh.
History always repeats it's self. Your electric bus fiasco is small compared to Whoops. But still a fiasco at best. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/whoops.asp
Just wait till the price of electric goes up due to all the charging demand.
So much better for the environment.
Being we are talking about electric power demands and the grid. Back in the cold war days both sides had their targets. The big one for the NW and beyond was that structure known as Grand Coulee Dam with 150 mile lake Roosevelt behind it. I'm sure there were scads of ICBM's aimed at it. Knock that out and every dam on the Columbia was compromised. No power for the entire NW, BC. and most all of northern California. And at the time it would put Hanford out of commission. Just some trivia from years back but still relevant today.
Lake of the Oz here downstream flood would have seriously damaged or destroyed a 1/4 of MO power generation.
How many busses is that 3400 kw/hr? That is roughly 4500 horsepower/hr, that is an incredible amount of heat.
Hmmm, i'd question some of the numbers being quoted on this electric bus scenario. In Australia we have a private company converting Kenworth trucks to run battery electric with swap and go battery exchange stations rather than waiting for recharging. The company claims it will recoup the conversion outlay in one year with the fuel savings on our major interstate route. See https://bigrigs.com.au/index.php/2021/06/23/brisbane-to-melbourne-on-a-single-battery/ The battery tech at present allows for a 400km to 500km range for a fully loaded B-Double which is roughly the equivalent of 2 USA semi trailers? I don't know if you have B-Doubles in the US. However newer battery tech coming this year will improve on that and it's likely that the battery improvements will accelerate as the demand increases. Even today on the news there was a call from the Australian trucking interests to accelerate the adoption of electric trucks in city operations as they are likely to be exempt from night delivery curfews which is the bane of last mile deliveries for large trucks in built up areas here. Also the electric drive systems are much less complicated and have greater reliability than diesel trucks with modern emission systems in city traffic scenarios. But the bottom line overall is in a large country like Australia where everything goes by truck, electricity is cheaper than diesel by a large amount. We also have some massive renewable zones coming on stream with lots of cheap electricity in the coming years that will be looking for batteries to charge.
I think the important thing is to not plan on trying to change everything at once. But to figure out where there are the best candidates for the conversion to different sources of power. For myself if I could buy something close to the size of a 2011 Ford Ranger pick-up that had a range of 100-150 miles on a charge and I could get it for the cost of a stripped down gas version of the same truck I would jump at it. 90% of what I need a small truck for could be done with something of that nature. I sure have no need for something that can do 0 to 100 in 4 seconds and cruse at 70mph for 300 miles. Also 90% of the gizmos on cars and trucks these days have little use to me. Heck I can turn a crank to raise of lower the window and slid seat forward and back by my butt!
AusDave, electricity from so-called renewable sources is subsidised by the taxpayer to the tune of 1.5 billion bucks a year. Remove that and see how many electric vehicles around.
In the US, coal, oil and gas received 5.9 Trillion in subsidies in 2020. Trillion with a T! "Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies, which took the form of tax breaks or, to a much larger degree, health and environmental damages that were not priced into the cost of fossil fuels, according to the analysis." https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds
Sounds like good value compared to the 10.3 billion bucks a year (2020-21) the fossil fuel industry received in subsidies See https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-hit-10-3-billion-in-2020-21/ The Renewable Energy Zones https://www.energy.nsw.gov.au/renewables/renewable-energy-zones put in place by a conservative NSW Government have been oversubscribed by private industry who've done their sums and see plenty of money to be made without big subsidies. The Australian Trucking Association has also reiterated its support for electric trucks for cost savings and to enable night time deliveries in built up areas saving time and daytime congestion. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...estion-trucking-industry-20220114-p59oa0.html All my machinery, truck and smaller vehicles are mechanical injection diesels. Easier and cheaper to work on, reliable and simple with none to minimal electronic systems. Given the choice of new diesel equipment with all its electronics and emission controls, creating problems which provide so many posts on this forum, I can't wait for simpler electric motor powered equipment at an affordable price.
And make it autonomous, get rid of the drivers too.
How much of those subsidies were due to the massive government covid spending of 2020?
All I know is I can't wait untill the day I can have my AC on and shut my truck off down in the pit waiting on the loader. I just want some peace and quiet while looking at nudies.
Tax breaks are debatable, but the larger "health and environmental damages" number, I'm not sure how much that is worth.
Figures don't lie, but liars figure. I wouldn't trust anything out of Yale.
I pay 6 cents a kwh for my first 40kwh per day and then 9 cents for the rest. Gas and diesel is 1.40 a liter here. So ya electric is looking pretty good right now.
The difference in grid power and off grid power (solar power) for the individual is to the difference in traditional IRA or a ROTH IRA and last I recalled the price per unit in electricity isn't going down and neither is taxes, best to cough up the costs/taxes up front.