Hey guys and gals, Got me a MST800 I took in on trade and am looking for a parts breakdown on the final drive. These hydrostatic transmissions I have no parts manuals on and sure could use a copy or a book. I have a final that is leaking between the hydraulic motor and planetaries and want to see what I'm in for before starting. Darin
Hi Darin, I have worked on quite a few Morooka's of different models. I have a parts book at work, but I won't be back there until Monday. I haven't done the seal between drive motor and planetary on an MST-800, but I did an MST-600V just about a month ago and it's a good chance the setup is pretty much the same, just can't say for sure. What you most likely have is a floating seal (duo-cone seal) on the inside of the planetary hub and the seal life has reached it's end, that's what was wrong with the 600 I just did. You have to remove the track and get it out of your way to disassemble planetary. The 600 I just did had the sprocket bolted to the flange of the planetary hub and the sprocket was two piece. With machine blocked up, I just rolled the sprocket to where I could remove one half, then roll again to remove second half, made track removal a lot easier. For parts, the OEM dealer in the east is Dominion Equipment Parts in Virginia. Brian is the parts manager. http://www.dominionequipmentparts.com/ Another you should call and get prices is Lanway Tractor in Oregon. Talk to the owner Don Lanway, tell him I told you to call. I just ordered a salvage dump bed control valve for an 800 from him today. Sometimes he can beat the OEM prices, sometimes it's the other way around, but I always give him a shot at it. http://www.lantraxco.com/home
Thanks a bunch for the information. I was afraid I was going to have to get teh duo cone from the dealer. I was hoping for a normal seal that I could cross or something. This is the first Morooka I tore into so it is a learning experience to say the least. These tracks are heavy compared to the little Komatsu dozers and mini excavators I normally work on. We took the complete final drive off the machine and are trying to get to the duo cone seal but have to wait now for my replacement large size allen head sockets to get closer to the seal. I am wondering if you could give me the teardown procedure on these finals. You see we are not sure how the hydraulic motor is attached internally to the planetaries. We took the tracks off drained oils removed hydraulic hoses on hyd motor took the bolts off and remove complete unit remove planetary face and planetaries now we are at the allen head bolts... Are we doing this right? Sorry to be pain but I am not sure. Talk to you again and I do appreciate your help. W Darin
Are these duo cone seal something we can't get aftermarket?
I haven't been into an 800 yet, here's some pics of the innards of the MST-600V planetary, see if it resembles what you have.
Nice pics. They are different maybe due to year difference or maybe model difference. Once I get the allen wrench back I should be able to get closer to that darn duo cone seal. It's funny because the parts book I got is only about 20 pages and shows the final drive complete only... no breakdown> Maybe Dominion can fax me over a breakdown when i call them. Thanks again and have a great one. Darin
Yeah, Morooka diagrams are a little lame. I would think you could remove the planetary hub without disturbing the motor. As for the cone seals, I'm sure there is a size out there that would work, I've just never found a way to find them. I've talked to a buddy at HeavyQuip about these things. Originally a Cat design, the cone seal of various sizes are used by practically all dirt equipment makers, so I know the sizes are out there. The problem is, I haven't found a size cross reference for cone seals. They are identified by machine application. One thing you need to check on a Morooka is the trunion shaft bearings for the lower rollers. The trunion shaft is the shaft that attaches the triangle plates of the rollers to the track frame. I have worked on a number of Morooka's that the user allowed these bearing to fail, then the shaft starts wearing into the bearing housing that's welded to the track frame. When this happens, you have to cut off the damaged housing and have a machine shop make a new housing tube to weld on machine. I haven't seen many failures of the bottom roller bearings. They have oil in them and are sealed by cone seals.
Once we have this apart I'll see about the sizes or actually probably send them out to be spec'd. HOPEFULLY. I'll check those trunion shaft bearings while the machine is down and out. It sure doesn't sound like fun replacign those housings. Darin www.dmmsales.com
Your 800 may be different, but the 600 I did had a typical profile cone seal on the planetary hub, but the mate on the track frame was flat, it didn't have the angle that a cone seal has, never see that before. And yes, these things can get a little spendy. The trunion shaft design is, in MHO, a poor design on the Morooka machines. The shafts have grease fittings fitted on the outboard end of the shaft, but inserting grease does not work well because the shaft seals fit so tight that they don't allow air or grease to escape, they are a "two piece" type seal. Which makes sense if the objective is to seal tight enough to not allow ingress of dirt or water from the outside. But, when a seal is this tight, it will not allow grease to be injected to the inside because the old grease cannot escape because of the tight seal. If you have any looseness of any of the shafts/bearings, you should consider fixing it before you have bearing failure. Yes, replacing the bearing housing tubes are a PITA. I must add this though; some models, like the MST-1500, use either bearings for the shafts or brass bushings. I don't know if the 800 used bushings. Point is, a small amount movement on a bushing may be Ok, bearings should have no loose movement. What you should be looking for is if you can place a long prybar under the triangle plate, between bottom rollers, and lift the plate more than a 1/4" (movement of the trunion shaft), then you should check it out.
For those who have no idea what a duo-cone seal is, here's a link to show you what they look like. They are two precision lapped steel rings that "face up" to each other. They use an o-ring on a ramp to keep the rings faced tight against each other. The face of each ring is ground on a taper/angle. As dirt and abrasives wear the ring, the taper of the rings constantly moves the seal surface inward on the rings. When the wear reaches the innermost part of the surface, the seal is done. http://www.kello-bilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71&Itemid=112
i am wondering whether your problem solved, if not, you can tell me the ID*OD*H of the duo cone seal, maybe i can find some more detailed dimension, cause we are a professional manufacturer.
MST-800 Floating seal and collar Hey guys, Dr. Don here from Lanway Tractor... I can email or fax a parts breakdown of the travel motor if anybody needs one. The three allen bolts come out, the inner planetary assembly is on three dowels also which are usually tight as hell. I usually use some bolts in one of the flanges to force the hub off the travel motor half. There are shims under there that set the bearing preload. The rotating hub has a floating seal half in it, the stationary motor half has a square cross section "Seal collar" in a groove. The only way we've found to get these buggers out is to drill a couple small holes from the backside right up next to the shoulder and then use a pin punch to drive it out. The o-ring seals on the ID, so the little punch holes you drill are harmless. I stock the floating seal halves and seal collars, though I am currently out of stock on the collars. Probably be a week or two from order to get one in, if you actually need one. Sometimes all you need is the floating half. Get prices from Dominion, then after you've had CPR, call me at 888-452-6929 toll free. My prices are merely exorbitant, not actually insane. I can also get the big tapered bearings reasonably priced. Oh, and let's not forget the hydraulic motor seal while you're in there, and if you need brake plates and gaskets for the motor, I got those on hand at good prices also. Happy to help any way I can, Lanway
Hey ATCO! Yeah, the old bearing style pivot shaft setup kinda sucks, bad design. All the newer machines use bushings, which is some better. Some of the smaller units used a fiber bushing, which also sucks. Then of course there's the really big units like the 3300 which has bushings, but the shafts are not big enough, so they just bend and/or break! Kind of reminds me of all the various designs for six way dozer blades over the years, with and without lube fittings and all the varied bushing materials CAT and Deere tried. Cheers, Lanway
Hello Lanway, Sure am glad to hear from you. These little buggers don't have very many sources for parts. I am wondering if you could send me some information on my unit like torque specs and diagrams. Oh of course please quote me on the duo cone and motor gaskets. I had the thing apart and soem parts ordered from dominion but later found that they are out of stock and am not sure but still haven't got the parts in. My dealers in Japan say that Morooka is out of stock on my part and may be like 2 months before they produce some more. HOLY CRAP! Anyway any and all help will be MUCH appreciated because as of yesterday my mechanic cleaned everything up and is putting it back together with no new parts yet. Talk to you soon and thanks for everything. MST 800 Daikin Sunstrand Model- BM21-24CTBF-50 MF21-514-50 Serial- 02-FJ-04201 Darin email is [email protected]
LoL...hey Doctor Don! :waving And yes, he does have good prices on brake parts. But the meat head failed to mention he has some used/dismantled parts as well. :tong I needed a dump bed control valve not long ago for an MST-800. Over 500 bucks from Morooka, got a perfectly good used one from the doctor for half that.
Morooka parts No torque specs, just use the standard torque for the fastener type and size. Morooka and Daikin are kinda like black holes as far as information are concerned, sorry. The floating seal half is $250, in stock, the collar is $495, have to order it. I'll check on Monday and see what the lead time is if any. The motor shaft seal is $30.00, the o-ring $3.00 and the gaskets are $5.00 each for the cover gasket and motor housing gasket if you need one or both. Meathead? Huh, I should take offense to that! LOL :Banghead By the way, two months lead time is nothing for this stuff, when I worked at Morooka USA, it was not unusual to see six months to sometimes out over a year for some parts. Like the gears for your planetary there, they're obsolete and no longer available from Japan to the best of my knowledge. We can get complete refurbished travel motors usually, and I do wreck out some machines, but it's always hit or miss. Cheers, Lanway
Thank you for the info. What I am also wondering because right now she is all but mounted to be completely put back together because i thougth I was going to have to wait 2 months before the seal come in. Is there a raised seating surface on these seals and collars or is it just all flat surface mating faces? I've installed quite a few floating seals on bulldozers and these are all flat mating surfaces without a raised edge. Morooka USA can't be that long on parts for their new stuff are they? My goodness if I paid as much for those machines new I woudl expect parts readily available. It's probably all the imported older stuff that is hard for parts yeah???? Darin
Naa, you won't, you enjoy me telling folks to call you for parts. :tong Darin, the seal collar is a flat surface. The mating floating seal in the hub is just like any other floating seal, it has the angled seal surface that mates up to the seal collar surface. If both yours are flat, that simply means your floating seal is shot, time for replacement.
On my little dozer due cones both halves are basically the same size and dims. There is no collar and a seal and that is why I was a little baffled (nah alot baffled) at the design. These floating seals are for my Komatsu D21's
have pics of the new seal and collars for these Morooka?
Seal They're flat, just like the picture you posted there. The floating half is just one side of the duo-cone setup, the collar is just a ring with a square cross section. I'll try to get some pics up later. Hey ATCO... I do appreciate the referrals, but I'm just about out of business here, due to the slow economy. Looking for a job driving truck or welding, might even have to go back to turning wrenches! ointhead Oh, and no, parts ain't all that available for the new machines, it's just that you hardly ever need any.. they rarely break down, unless they're in a rental fleet! LOL
Sad to hear that Don, you have been a great supplier, but I'll continue to refer you until your phone is disconnected. I feel your pain bro, if we had to depend on equipment sales right now, we would be out of business. Attachments is the only thing keeping us going. :yup
What oil is suppose to be in the planetary gears on the final drive? I got teh specs from Morooka and they don't have it listed. Darin
Don't know the spec myself. I just use an 85W/90 gear lube.
Good deal. That is what we put in it. Thanks for your help. Darin
How's your drive pumps doing? Those things are bad about leaking oil at the control shafts of the pumps. Simple to repair. Oh, and the little control arms on the control shafts like to get loose. When you gonna send a pic of the 800?
This pic is terrible. I had to get this pic at dark because the next day we were to get 2' of snow and we did. I have to take better ones though because nobody is jumping on buying it yet. This unit is a nice dry unit and did have to fix the control arm linkage. No she just needs soem batteries and then no problems. I have a MST500 coming this week that needs a track. Got one laying around? Did you happen to see my other post begging for info on teh injection pump off a Kubota KX91-2? Just checking! Darin
Nice looking unit. I haven't even been around an MST-500 yet. Smallest I've worked on is a 600VD. Call Eric at Multi Machine in New Jersey for a track.
Sounds like you work on a lot newer ones that I get in. Thanks again for your replies.
lol...naw, that MST-600VD was the newest one I've worked on. Worked on a plenty just like yours. Don Lanway knows more about them than I do. He used to work for Morooka USA.
Shoot by the sounds of it you work on or have worked on a lot of different units. I do like the Morooka dumpers but get scared everythign I buy one just because what COULD be wrong with them. Yeah Don has been very helpful too and I do wish I knew as much as you guys have forgot. Great info here thats for sure.
Yep, I've worked on a few of them. I expect to see an MST-2200 offloaded when I get to work tomorrow. We sold that little MST-600VD to an outfit that manages a very very large expanse of mountain terrain that has 4 wheeler trails all over it. They broke a track on it...half way up the side of a mountain on one of those dirt trails. Called me out there to install a new track. LoL...that was a project. :Banghead
Those dang tracks are bears to move around. But of course you know that. I can't image doing track work in the field and not on the concrete. Bravo. Dang that MST2200 is a bigin.
LoL...I decided to "mess with the boss" on that project. I had my truck driver/helper snap a pic of me and send it to the bosses email. He inserted the text "can't get nothing done out here...". The boss called truck driver/helper late in the day on his cell phone as we were rolling out and told us to stop by the bookeeper. He said "ok...why?". Boss said..."to pick up your checks...your both fired!" To which we got a good laugh.
Lol..
Funny thing about the outfit that bought this machine; a couple of months ago, they brought the machine to our shop with the left drive hub seal leaking. I took it apart, it was just a worn out seal. Called about new seal, had to order from Japan, would be a couple weeks. They needed the machine and asked if I could put it back together so they could use it until seals arrived. Sure...I can do that. Do you want to do the seal on the other side? No. Are you sure? It's probably no better than this one, it will be leaking soon. No, just the left side. Okaaayyyy. Well, the phone rang last week. Right side leaking.
How many hrs were on the machien when the seal started leaking? That woudl be my luck.. don't fix the other side and then have it leak right after. Darin
Ahhhh, can't remember the hours. My logic was like the tires on your vehicle. If the left front is worn out, chances are the right front don't look much different. As you know yourself, a cone seal is a durable and long wearing seal. Yeah, abraisive material will wear them quicker. Point is, cone seals don't wear out in a day, takes time. So, if one side is leaking from being worn out, the opposite side can't be much different. Unless someone has recently replaced it.
Or just does circles.
LoL!
Hey Darin, got a few tips for you wrestling with those Morooka tracks. First of all, raise the dump bed and secure bed with locking device. Remove your grease adjuster. Use fork lift or crane to lift rubber track about half way between rear of cab (or hyd tank for opposite side) and rear idler. Lift track to retract track adjuster/idler. Make sure it goes all the way in. At this point, remove the upper roller (or rollers if 2). You'll find it easier to work with track with these rollers removed. Second, I find it easier just to get the whole machine off the ground as opposed to just one side. Just lift the front of the machine, place cribbing or sturdy stands, then rear of machine. Everything is now nice and level. Raise the machine just enough for the mid track bottom rollers to be just above the spike bars sticking up from the track, more than that works against you. Now, find you some steel pipe or round bar stock pieces cut about a foot long. You'll have to determine the proper OD size of pipe or round bar for the type/size track your working on. On MST-600 and 800 size tracks, I think a 1 1/4" steel schedule 40 steel pipe is about the right OD size. You want to place one of the pipes in between two of the track spike bars of the top track, perpendicular to track, just in front of idler and hold it there. Have your helper start machine and slowly rotate track in reverse, causing the pipe to ride up on idler which will lift those two spike bars off idler. Skip one spike bar space. Insert another pipe between the next two spike bars, rotate in reverse again. Skip another space, insert one more pipe between the next two spike bars, rotate reverse. Now, you will have 3 pipes sitting on idler which lift the bars away from and clearing idler. Now you can observe if you have the right size pipe. Too small OD pipe, bars don't clear idler. Too large, tensions loose track excessively impeding track removal. Bars should be just clearing idler. Now you can simply put a belt strap around track back to forklift and pull track off idler. You may have to jockey track at rear bottom roller. Spike bars may not be clearing that roller. I have taken my forklift fork and dropped it on bottom track pushing the track down away from rear bottom roller, then use a comealong to tension the strap I have at idler. That way, as I'm pulling the strap to pull track off idler, the fork is holding track clear of bottom roller. All you have left to do now is pluck the track off of sprocket, which is not such a chore now that you have the track removed from idler giving you plenty of slack to work with. Re-install track in reverse order as removed.
Sweet tips. Ours wasn't quite so smooth because we had different size pipes and pry bars. Also when we took the track off the tensioner wasn't able to go all the way back because there was dirt and mud packed in there forcing it to be tight going. We had to take the bottom rollers off by the idler just to get teh clearance needed to clear the lugs. All in all the removal was easier than the assembly though. But with the forklift and long pry bars install didn't kick our butts nearly as expected. Got some better pics of the girl now.
Heck ya, that's a nice 800! Is that a heater in the cab?
Yeah that is a heater and it actually works.
Sswweeet! Don't see heaters on them that often.
Darinray i have some spec will emal when you reply with contact.... Janni
I get scared just thinking about buying one, especially after hearing about how difficult parts are to obtain and the price of parts. Tried to buy one last year but it didn't work out - maybe that's a good thing.
Hi swampdog. Actually, it's my experience that it's not so much parts are hard to find for Morooka machines as much as it is Morooka USA or Dominion Parts must not keep a large inventory of parts. They frequently have to order a part you need from Japan. And yes, a number of their parts are a little spendy. Don Lanway has connections to Morooka parts and can sometimes save you some money. I really haven't had a problem with parts not available, just have to wait for them. Granted, that can be a PITA when your machine is down to the point of wanting a different machine. Thing is, if your working on Morooka terrain, hardly any other vehicle will go where those things will go. And they are awsome doing jobs over terrain that few other machines can travel to.
Hi Gents Myself are also batteling with a Morooka Mst800, just remember from the model 3601 the final drives are different from the older ones and from 4001 there are a lot differences. Good Luck Micheal
Good Day I have a Morooka MST800 very old one serial no:2343 Can Anyone tell me what should the tramming pressure be and the pressure to the brakes. Because my brakes system is normal hose which I think it can not overcome the force of the springs off the brakes. Kind Regards Micheal
Ho to All I have a Morooka MST800 serial 2343, Very old, so I changed the pump. Could'nt find the original PV022022 pump from Japan. They send me a PV055055-611 but the hydraulic motor are still the BM21-24CTBF-50. Will this system work this way and what can I do To get it worked? Thanks for any assistance Micheal
https://blu171.mail.live.com/att/Ge...yMDEzLTA3LTI4IDE2LjM4LjI3LmpwZ3xpbWFnZS9qcGVn
I resently purchased a mst800 #845.enquired with morooka & they told me it was a 1984.that was all they could or would tell me.it is a tidy machine with I am lead to believe a genuine 2700 hrs.it had some sort off mulching unit on it .apparently with a auxillary motor.so main machine has done little track & engine ,hydraulic work.so im lead to believe.it has had a engine rebuild ,due to water loss (6cylinder mitsi )& one track motor overhauled.my plan was to just put a tipper on it & use it.just doing some research at the moment all appears to operate as it should.it is good to see some support out there for them
That's about all they know I'm sure. I worked for Morooka USA for a few years, before the current distributor took over. The oldest parts book I have for the 800 model starts at serial number 1024. I have a build sheet back to 866, and that shows a 4 cylinder mitsi engine. If you have any questions I'll try to help. The earliest 800 I show in the production record is 1982 and it's serial number 803. I assume 01 and 02 were probably prototypes.
Was about to say #845 was an early machine, but you beat me to it with the details. No doubt an interesting machine. Pics would be nice.
Well, it's earlier out here old friend, lol.
hope that worked.couple of mods it has is the fuel & oil tanks are behind the cab as the aux engine was on the right side.it also has controls ,gauges ,start button & park brake on the roof .I just picked up a jap truck knee action hoist unit I plan to use on a tipper unit