I have a case tr320 that blew a hose to a final drive. It is on a job site, and I couldn't swing the cab up because the bucket was all the way down. Long story short, I bit the bullet and called the Case dealer and they sent out a service tech. He diagnosed it, said he had to order the hoses, and will return next week. This brings me to my question. We were talking about exactly what he was going to do, and he said he was going to fill the hydraulic fluid reservoir with MOTOR OIL! maybe penzoil 10w-30 if I remember correctly. He said that is the latest recommendation from Case. Does this seem right? Thank you.
John deere has been using 10-40 motor oil in the hydraulic systems for a very long time, my 2010 specs it. I think new holland does the same, so ya it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Do you know what oil is in the machine right now? Maybe find out why the change in recommendation. What does your operators manual say in the maintenance and oil spec section. Idealy you don't want to mix two different oils.
I believe Cat is the same, 10-40
Case skid steers ran 10w-30 motor oil along with an additive in the hydraulics for years, up until at least the early 2000s. For some reason I’m thinking they went to regular hydraulic oil after that, but maybe they are back to using motor oil. Someone with one if the newer machines can comment in that. The original reason they did it was to “simplify service” so you didn’t have to keep as many oils on hand. IMO its a pain in the ass, especially since your not supposed to mix motor oil and hyd oil. I have a case skid steer that uses 10w-30 and a kubota skid steer that uses aw46 so I can’t share attachments between them.
I don't think a small amount 10w-30 mixed with aw46 or vice versa will hurt anything as far as using the attachment on different machines. If a machine called for a very specific oil and/or additives that weren't commonly available would be more a cause for concern. I think Komatsu and Hitachi call for very specific oils in some of their machines.
No, it is not right to use motor oil in a hydraulic fluid reservoir. Hydraulic systems require specialized hydraulic fluids that meet specific requirements, including viscosity, lubricity, and corrosion protection. The use of motor oil in a hydraulic system can cause premature wear and damage to the system components, reducing the system's efficiency and lifespan. It's possible that the service tech may have misspoken or misunderstood the requirements of your particular system. You should double-check with the Case dealer to ensure that the correct hydraulic fluid is used to avoid any potential issues down the line.
Sorry Brendan, but deere has been using 15w40 engine oil in the hydrostat/hydraulic system of their skid steers for quite a while. I believe the change was with the 200/300 series numbering scheme. The important/expensive components are the pumps/drive motors. You can check with Danfoss for their recommendations if you want manufacturers recommendations. The cylinders don't really care.
The owners manual for CASE says 10-30 for the hydraulic system and has for decades.
My komatsu uses motor oil for hydraulics. Brendan is not correct.
Been using 15w40 in Allison 750's for over a decade. The viscosity of hydraulic oil is not on the same scale as motor oil viscosity.
To be clear, you are saying 10w-30 motor oil right? I looked in the manual I have and it seems to call for CNH MAT3509, which is apparently out of production. I wish there was a consensus on this issue. Thanks for all of the replies. The tech is from CASE. I guess I'm just going to go with what he is telling me and let him put the 10w-30 motor oil in it.
Sorry, yes it is 10W -30.
Don't hold my life too it but tractor hydraulic oil hytran hygard mobile 424(my favorite of the bunch) is the same viscosity as 10w30 motor oil my new holland skidloader calls for 10w30 and I put 424 in it based on this and it has preformed just fine
It's pretty common to use motor oil in hydraulics. In the north we use 0W30 synthetic motor oil in the hydraulics. Summer & winter.
I'm prolly wrong, but I think Case Hy-Tran is what the owners manual specifies for it.
You are incorrect. It is not Hytran. It is 10w-30. This is really simple.
Apparently this website is wrong.
Cant read it, but if it doesn't say 10w-30 it is wrong
Mat 3509 is available at any CNH dealer. It shows up as Case Hydraulic Excavator fluid. Part # B67301.
Here is part of an interesting post by an employee of dealership. It is on another website I like to read on. "1)The reason the Hytran was discontinued is because the revised Hy-tran Ultraction formula (changed for for the Magnum CVT tractors mainly) had an acidic chemical reaction with certain hoses and internal components of the hydraulic system in the Patriot sprayers. The acid developed quickly under operating conditions with high humidity and high temperatures. It was first seen in the Rio Grande Valley and Corpus Christi areas. The acid quickly destroyed numerous wheel motors and other hydraulic components and became a huge headache to our dealerships in that area. 2) the first engineering response was a field mod program to add the anti corrosive additive. A stop-gap measure. 3) the second engineering response was to switch to 10W30 engine oil, additive not required. The properties of this engine oil are not suitable for all operating temperatures and environments in a 6300-psi system and although a bulletin was released advising dealers to go this route, it was quickly retracted through back channels... even though the bulletin itself was never cancelled or revised. Several dealerships including one of ours ordered a lot of 10W30 oil to service Patriot sprayer hydraulics and then never sold a drop of it. 4) the final solution was to switch to an existing Case Construction premium (and expensive) hydraulic fluid used in excavators. P/N B67301 for a 5-gallon bucket. Do NOT use the special additive; it isn't needed. B67301 has a superb anticorrosion and anti-wear additive formulation; when we started using it in the Patriot sprayers, our wheel motor problems went away. And if you think your off-the-shelf AW46 spec oil is equal to the base stock and additive package that this fluid contains, go ahead and use it. Your short-term bargain savings will likely cost you some wheel motors and hydrostats in the very near future 5) you do not have to drain every last drop of Hy-tran out of your system. The amount of Hy-tran left in a 40 gallon hydraulic system is minimal and there is no chemical reaction between the Hy-tran and the excavator fluid"
With the new overhaul of the website we need to click that greyed out image and it will open it's own page. Seems to be the same with a web link that is in a greyed panel. Kinda weird I think.
This is like a motorcycle forum discussing weights, brands and filters only you guys need to get it up to 105 pages to thoroughly disassemble the molecular structure of each drop.
"Excavator fluid" .... That's cute. Make sure you don't go putting that in a skid steer!
Can confirm, just serviced a TR320 like OP's a couple weeks ago. Its printed right in the maintenance portion of the operation manual.
Yesterday I pulled my owners manual for my SV450B. It says the factory fill for the hyd. system is 10w-30. However it does mention the "excavator fluid" can be used for very cold climates. It says the 10w-30 is still useable at very cold temps if you let the machine warm up prior to use (probably why it is the factory fill...and its cheaper I am sure). It also mentions using 00w-40 as an option. I tried posting a picture of it but was having issues with that. It illustrates the different temp ranges of the different oil. I had heard about the changes to Hytran but the post here lays that issue out very well.
Thanks guys, I really do appreciate it.
This argument seems to go open forever. I believe it is all about the petroleum industry creating churn. In the sixties engine oils were not recommended because they didn't have an additive to prevent foaming. Poclain came out with piston pumps and high pressure hydraulic systems and used Dexron. International came out using Hytran in transmissions. All the Japanese excavators that were imported to North America used AW fluids and somewhere in the mid 2000s started recommending engine oils. Next I heard was Hitachi wanting special oils with reduced or no zinc. Each time a recommendation changes the price goes up. The machine life never changed as that was regulated by accumulated damage and poor maintenance. I'm a fan of one oil for the entire machine. The issue though is cost. When I was handling oils at the coal mines I worked at, AW oils were $1.99 per gallon and engine oils were around $4.50 a gallon. Not much to think about there. Blow a pump output hose on a loading shovel or a big wheel loader and it cost half as much to replace that oil. In essence; pumps, motors and cylinders don't care what oil is used as long as it has a touch of lubricity and not a huge amount of detergent. It's actually the seals that matter. All kinds of space age chemistry is being tried to make them last longer. In my view it doesn't make a whole lot of difference what oil you use as long as it is clean.
We had a mechanic that worked underground for years. I blew a brake line on the old 730 Champion grader. He fixed it up, and got me going. Next morning I could not press the brake peddle. He came and checked it out, and had one of those moments. The mine he worked at, the underground grader used automatic transmission fluid for the brakes. The half quart or so that he used to top up my master cylinder, swelled all the rubbers so big, the whole system had to be flushed and redone.
The brake fluid vs mineral oil for brake and clutch cylinders kills a lot of seals, some cylinders even have the wrong markings on the cap! As far as "excavator oil", yes it's a ridiculous name, but so is hygard, or hytran, or Xtreme for that matter. It's not the name that makes it better. If CIH says that's their best oil for higher pressure hydraulics, that's the spec I'd trust, even if they called it "Billy Jim Bob's best excavator oil".
Hytran makes sense it's for hydraulics and transmission in its original application Hy gard is because deere copied international and with deere everything is gard. Aka service gard for there tools
Hey all, I have worked in the lubricant industry for several years in mining. Motor oil had more additives than is needed for fire hydraulics but will work. The major difference is motor oil has an emulsifier additive, meaning it will hold water in suspension. Almost all other oils will naturally demulsify, separate from water. An engine will, by design reach temperatures to evaporate the water. Water contamination in A hydraulic system with engine oil will hold the water until it becomes peanut butter. Hydraulic oil will separate, making it possible to drain it off. 10w-30 is 25-30 viscosity oil. Sounds light but as the temperature rises the 10w-30 will not thin out as rapidly as a straight hydraulic oil. Hope this helps
Also engine oil is not sheer stable, it will shear. Different polymers are used in hydraulic oil and engine oils. At work I would not go against an oem recommendation, on my equipment I would never, NEVER use engine oil in a hydraulic system. Think about the pressure differences.
Engine oil in my pickup gets compressed up to 4000 psi
Are you sure? Rule of thumb is 10 psi per 1000 rpm. Fuel will see high pressure in modern diesels not motor oil
100% Heui diesel engines use engine oil as hydraulic oil to fire the injectors.
Ahhh cool. Thanks for teaching me something.
Sorry, but I didn't specifically ask. You use 10w-30 and it seems to work okay for you? Thanks again.
10W-30 engine oil was specified in thousands of skid steers for at least a couple decades. They stopped specifying it for a while and now it seems it's specified again. It's hard to keep track. Most trans., diff. and hyd. fluid for tractors is a 10W-30 viscosity and is often specified by repair shops as a good oil to use. It's funny how most name brand oils say they meet certain specs. of equipment manufacturers oils such as Cat, JD or CNH, etc. Knowing which oils are better or which specs. are the best to use in your machine becomes a toss of the dice in a lot of cases. Bobcat now has their own special fluid that apparently doesn't cross to anything else and of course is much more expensive. Is it better or is it a waste of money could only be determined by running the different oils in identical machines and seeing if there is a significant difference in performance and/or longevity of components. Interestingly a lot of OEM's don't make their own hyd. components so it seems it might be better to go by the recommendations of the component manufacturers rather than the manufacturer of the machine.
Yes, I have never had an issue with using it.
Bobcat is doing everything they can to force you to buy BC hyd. oil. I am not sure who BC uses for their hyd. pump and so forth. I would bet it is an off the shelf type pump that doesn't need to some special fluid to make it work. BC just maximizing the profit margin. I remember a thread a long while back about BC hyd oil. I searched for hours on the net and at that time, was unable to find out what weight of oil it actually was. BC had done a great job locking that info down. Polaris does the same thing. My General calls for some odd ball engine oil weight that you will only find at Polaris. As far as the 10w-30, sometimes I will buy at the dealer in 5 gal buckets (price is good in that quantity). However, if I am out and about and blow a line and need oil, I get the cheapest 10w-30 I can find. Have never had a hyd. issue in the last 27 years and 20+/- skids steers and CTL's I have owned in that time. To John's point, I don't think it is all that critical. I don't get excited about swapping SSL attachments and worry about oil mixing. I actually have a guy rents attachments from me at times, he has a BC, three years doing that and neither of us has had an issue.
Fun reading this thread. A friend of mine who runs a machine shop. Years back 70's 80's he and his dad built Ag equipment, Grape, pea and bean harvesters under the name Pic Rite and Chism Ryder. He and his dad built the first automated grape harvester that really worked. He still builds replacement parts for some of those 40 year old machines. Those machines used mainly Eaton Char Lynn Motors but they used other brands also. At the time of design the question was asked to the manufactures-what to use for oil. Those harvesters ran for years and years with nothing but 10x40 then 10x30. And as far as he knows they never had any issues. Some still operating today. Some Trivia.
What do you do when the OEM recommends engine oil in the hydraulics?
Well, The tech is supposed to come tomorrow to finish the job. I'm going to let him put the 10w-30 in it. If it doesn't work well... you can read about it in the obituaries because I'm about at my whits end with fixing this thing. Every time I think I've sorted everything out and it will be reliable for a while, it's something else. Thank you all for the input. Special thanks to KSSS, I had my wife read through the thread and she tells me I asked him the same question three times lol. I'm just having a hard time pouring motor oil into the hydraulic system. I really do appreciate all of the replies and information.
Your not the only one struggling with engine oil in the hyd system. I will share this story that happened last week. I started donating time driving excavator and CTL's for TR ( veteran volunteer disaster relief organization). We were in Selma, Alabama demoing houses that were damaged in the tornadoes that went through there in January. CASE sponsors TR with equipment. One of the lead guys who was a Lt Col. and is an instructor on CTL's for TR. Great guy but very anal on protocal. He was told that the hyd. system in the CASE skid steers takes standard hyd. fluid. The TR literature states hyd fluid. Here comes me into the organization, a long history running CASE SSL and CTL's and I point out straight from the manual in the CASE CTL they own, that it takes 10W-30 not hyd oil, even though its a hyd system, it takes engine oil. The Lt Col. struggled and struggled with it. Finally after pointing out on the manual and several days of having issues with it, he grudgingly accepted it. This is the reason I responded a little rough in this thread, I had this same arguement all last week. Funny how things happen.
I'm thinking in some areas more than that.
Hmm I'm not sure, the sensor is on the oil rail close to the injectors and the regulating valve is close to the high pressure oil pump. Really cool system, the pressure gets intensified x7 at the injector for a maximum injection pressure around 29,000 psi, in 2005. I'd have to ask my brother but I think typical high pressure systems for wheel motors and the like would be around 6000 psi.