What is the highest weight limit to haul with a Ram 3500 and a Big-Tex 25 30 foot trailer? I’m only moving within 50 miles of the house? Weighed at the scales and this was 34,000# total
Well....you're going to get lots of answers to that question and may even start a debate lol. Trucks these days have so much power it's easy to overload your braking system and overall stability. Something like a dozer with a low center of gravity wouldn't bother me too much. I used to load four house moving dollies on my 4500 and gross around 42-43k. My advice, which somebody will most likely take issue with, is secure it properly and drive safe. Good tires, functioning brakes and a reasonable speed. Maybe even early Sunday with less traffic.
Legalities are a fruitless conversation. I'd drive it no problem. I grossed in the mid 40s with my F550s from time to time... not a big deal if you drive appropriately.
I used a 2001, Ram 3500/Cummins and a 25' gooseneck with duals on it, to haul firewood. Truck, trailer, and load weighed about 42,000. I hauled these kind of loads over 125 miles, every month, for two years. It did just fine, however, stopping the load was somewhat iffy.
Pretty sure ram publishes maximum GCWR. https://www.ramtrucks.com/towing-guide.html Doesn't matter if you have farm plates, RV, or a cdl. You are going to open a legal can of worms exceeding those published numbers if an accident happens. There is a big difference between making a Sunday run out of necessity and towing regularly too. If you gotta panic stop, do you have enough truck and enough tongue weight to control the unit? I sold my ram 3500 to get an International 4700 and I have never looked back.
I have often heard tale of the legalities of exceeding Mfg ratings on the internet... insurance won't cover you, bus loads of nuns and orphans will perish, will be cast to the 7th layer of Hell after rotting in prison... I've never seen it happen in life though. I've never seen a law that says manufacturer ratings are a metric the law considers, etc. Ever truck has a GVWR and GCWR, including class 7 and 8 vehicles. It's ironic when someone asks about moving a 12-16t ex behind a 30 year old single axle dump truck, the question of mfg ratings isn't mentioned.
I don't know about legality but if you chain the load down good and drive like it isn't and keep good tires and brakes on it it is safe enough, depending on who's driving.
I rode in a Dodge 3500 crew cab 4x4 pulling a 953 Cat track loader loaded on a 32' tandem dually flatbed. The loader weighs about 32000 by itself. I wouldn't load it and I wouldn't drive the pickup, but I had to ride in it or walk. Only went about 2 miles though. The guy was an idiot.
I'm kind of puzzled when I hear people bring up the braking issue. Don't these trailers have brakes designed to handle the weight the trailer is carrying?
They do.....most are electric and not always maintained. If I had a nickel for every time I fixed the electric brakes on one of our trailers with 10k tandem dual axles I could buy a round for the entire membership of HEF. It's always something it seems like. Broken wire, bad magnet, bad ground etc etc. I think brakes come up more as a reminder to drive smart and make sure they all actually work!
It's amazing how poorly trailers/trucks get wired, like saving a few minutes up front won't come back and bite you time and time again. Just say no to scotch connectors and open connections! Here's the wiring on the back of the truck I'm wrapping up... shouldn't cause any problems over the rest of the truck's life.
I can see that. I'm one of the very few where I work that actually takes the time to make sure the trailer brakes work when I do servicing. I don't do a lot of towing but I did haul a complete AG100 clip (complete with tires and 5th wheel) with a half ton. Brakes felt pretty much the same as with the truck empty.
As far as I know, the GCWR for a vehicle refers to the drivetrain only. Identical trucks can have different GCWR based on the rear end ratio alone. For example, Fiat (Ram?) lists GCWR for a 4x4 long box extended cab ranging from 19,900 to 39,100. Those trucks all have the same axle ratings, the same brakes, the same tires. The difference is engine, trans, axle ratio, and base weight. The highest capacity setup is rated to pull a 30,320 lb trailer. IMO, that's insane. But they say you can do it. I suppose, if you had 12,000 lb axles and could get 5,500 lbs on the tongue, you could get almost there. Of course, all other rules still apply. You will need a CDL. You will likely need a DOT number. If you cross state lines, you need IRP, UCR, IFTA, and all the same BS that a "real" truck needs. It is funny though. We (tons of people) move 55,000 gross with old International 4900s with the old mechanical DT466 that makes all of 220 hp. The new 6.7 Cummins is around 425 hp. It's plenty hilly here, and 50,000 lbs will have the old IH crawling up a steep grade at 20 MPH. But it'll do it. Yet theses pickup guys need tuners and twin turbo setups to pull a 3000 lb fishing boat.
I've given up and torn the wiring out of a few trailers. After cutting open the fourth ball of electrical tape looking for a short i start getting antsy with the wire cutters. That's some clean wiring and an interesting looking junction box. Looks better than what i normally use at the back of trailers. Who makes that?
I wish they would come out with a totally sealed wiring harness for small trailers like they have for the big van trailers. Grote makes a really nice system that works great until the first hero cuts through the insulation.
With baby trailers, I just throw in the towel for wiring. $60 loaded backing plates, Deutsch connectors on magnet wires, Deutsch connector on two wire from every brake to front junction box. No more under chassis crap connectors. All get breakaway box with status lights. With sealed connectors at each backing plates, problem isolation is easy peasy.
I just do everything with sealed heat shrink crimp connectors. One thing that really helps is to run a dedicated ground to every light instead of using the chassis as a ground.
I've always wondered who wires these trailers? I was doing better quality wiring when I was screwing around in the garage in my preteen years lol.
Truck Lite, round surface mount junction box. 28 wires in that picture, a few more will be added.
I consider myself to be someone that has learned the hard way... I had a TL150 skid steer which is 13,000 lbs and a 3500 lb trailer... take me and my trusty f250 for a complete 360 while out and about on lets just say my farm... It was not chained.. once the fishtailing began.. which was completely my fault... due to improper tongue weight.. since i was holding a 2nd bucket with the grapple it kept me about a foot too fair back on the trailer... the tongue went down but not quite enough... I was slowing down while going down a hill when I lost it .. first tried the trailer brakes ... nope ...no help at this point i was taking a large area... i then tried to throttle out of it nope, the rear end broke free and around we went.... as i was spinning around i was looking at the skid steer wondering if it was going to stay on the trailer or come off and flip and crush me... the tracks slid in the wheel well and the machine went 2 feet back but it stayed put... As luck would have it, i came to a soft landing and the only damage done was all my tires getting some what melted and the trailer smacking the bed of my truck as it was whipping around so much... I was able to drive away... wondering how the hell that happened I was going 38 mph when it started and i lost it at 25 mph... The thing was .... it start showing signs of being improperly loading going up the hill at 55mph.. I began to slow way down.. then i went over the hill and gravity got me .. it wrecked me... I can only imagine what would have happened at a faster speed... All ways have more weight to the front! I have had loads do this to me before and every other time i was able to control it... not this time... point is... a load can wreck you so fast that you can not stop it. that is a lot of weight up high... make sure you have good tongue weight but not too much... I have done it both ways too much and you will break all the welds on the trailer attachment on the truck...
Well have a commercial vehicle in an accident overloaded beyond the MFG ratings and this guy or one just like him, will take your insurance company to the ropes . The lawsuit won't affect you immediately as your insurance company will settle with this weasel and drop you, however it will affect your insurance rates the following year when you have to find another carrier. Business and subsequently insurance is akin to gambling - how much risk are you willing to take for the reward? One might go throughout their life and never have to deal with an accident and a lawsuit or you might find yourself smack dab in the middle of one. Which side of the dice do you trust?
Being sued after a wreck is common, at fault or not. I’ve never heard of the weight of the vehicle being in excess of mfg ratings ever being a factor. Weighing more than your license allows, bridge law, tire, etc are common factors in a lawsuit. Our insurance settled for $7k when we (wife) were sued for a not at fault wreck. The premium for that vehicle went up 30% at renewal. Look at Werner’s judgement, and it reads like they had no fault if someone had common sense. (Vehicle lost control, crossed the highway and hit the Werner truck head on). I’ve had this discussion with my insurance agent and my wife (also an insurance agent), I’m not worried about it. If you’re in a fatal wreck in a commercial vehicle, expect to be sued.
Why take the risk? Any competent ambulance chasing lawyer will tie you up in court. The biggest hook is negligence. By exceeding the rated specs you are being negligent. You should have known better and you did it anyways. Good luck explaining that away in court. Arguing this stuff is fruitless and is going to end up going nowhere. You have your opinion and I have mine. I try and follow the law as best as I can and I sure don't encourage Billy Big Rigger to haul more than the manufacturer recommends. Are you Able to do it safely? Possibly. I have no idea. Should you recommend every amateur who is reading this to do it? Ah, No. Just my $.02
The way i use electric trailer brakes can i stop this load without them if i had to ?I work in a shop thats next to a gas station i see all kinds bad loads. It makes you a beliver in a higher power looking out for dumb people and me sometimes.
Well yes and no.... you can stop it but your stopping distance is increased greatly. So for instance if you were going down hill the load would push the truck and i would guess your stopping distance increases by 4 to 5 times what it normally is on a hill or not. If my trailer brake stop working with my f250/tl150 the machine can almost push the truck down a hill and the truck does not want to stop with out giving it all the pedal you have... you can feel the tires wanting to break free of the payment really easy to test just leave the trailer disconnected and give it a try... If my brakes start acting up and I am in a 45 mph zone for instance my following distance increases by 400' ft normally at least. I cut my speed in half on hills... Once your hitch get sloppy from pulling lots of loads the grounding becomes an issue and the brakes may or may not always work... even if grounding through the plug on the trailer harness. Some times they pulse.. or flicker my f550 with dual tires handles a loaded trailer much better with out trailer brakes but even it is affected... its brakes are much larger than a 350/3500 style truck The average driver has no understanding of the danger of loaded trucks.. around here they jump in front of you as fast as they can even when coming up on a red light. It is a very bad feeling to approach an intersection with a load in a dump truck and realize the dump truck is not going to be able to stop for the light and you are going through it and what ever is in your way... I had that happen to me at a red light at a bottom of a hill. Loaded.. All at 20 mph.. I went in between cars crossing as the air horn was sounding and one driver in the crossing traffic never attempted to yield. I had to change lanes to miss him and dam that is what makes you never want to get in a dump truck and drive in traffic.. Maybe making a $100.00 carrying a load of dirt is not worth the risk.... not that it is related to this thread... but on my dump truck there is a brake valve body on the firewall that controls where air goes when you step on the pedal.. inside of it is a piece of rubber that is round and flat... it is fairly thick... when it gets old it can start to tear in the middle or just split... when you push the pedal your brakes work fine... when loaded and you really hammer the brakes it will open and full air does not go to the brake system.... your stopping distance will increase the larger the split is... I did not figure that out until i ran by a stop on a downhill road, i began braking a 1/4 mile before... to the point that the spring brakes engaged...after i had driven by my stop 250' later... if this occurs you will hear a whoosh type sound when you brake.
I used one of those junction boxes on my truck. When I had all the wiring done I packed it with red grease. Here in New York the salt is the killer of all wiring!
Well, to start with, Dodge/Ram 3500 with all the towing bells and whistles is only rated for 31,2000. so, already you are 3000 over the approved towing rating. To be honest, in the past much was over engineered and was capable of doing more than it was rated for. With CAD, everything is right on the nubbins for cost and weight for fuel efficiency. I would never haul it, the concern in the back of my brain would always be am I controlling the trailer or is the trailer just waiting for the moment to let me know it is controlling me. Your photo showed a nice clean dozer, will the next photo show a dozer with 1000 pounds of mud on it along with a few more tools riding on the trailer because there is so much "extra space?" I would bet a year from now, you run across a scale and the package weighs an additional 2-3000 pounds. It is just the nature of the beast. If you have a dozer, I can only assume you have a dump truck or some such, why not haul it with that? If you don't have a dump truck, you soon will I bet.
Wouldn't even hesitate to pull that. I've grossed 35,000 with my Ram 3500 numerous times, at no time does it ever feel unsafe. I gross 30,000 on a regular basis and would be dumbfounded if anyone would consider that weight unsafe. I've been cut off horribly, and it will stop on a dime. The new trucks stop so well with bigger brakes, downshifting autos, exhaust brakes, etc then trucks even 10 years ago. The trailer should be capable of stopping the load regardless. I don't care if it's 5000 or 500,000lbs if the trailer cannot stop itself it's going to push the tow rig around. As far as liability for exceeding tow ratings, yea good luck with that. The only ratings that matters are tire, axle, etc etc.
I must be really lucky. I bought my 09 with dual 10k 3 years ago and other then replacing battery I have not touched a single part of the wiring, replaced a light, etc. Wiring has been all redone for sure, but was obviously done right. My biggest gripe with the trailer is leaking axle seals. Thankfully been catching them before it takes out the bearings.
Here in California we haul at gross weight of 35,000 all day ,and more at times with Ram 3500 chassis (14000 gvw) and tandem dual trailers (24000 gvw). The CHP will stop us to check things and sends us down the road. We always maintain the brakes (elec /hydraulic ) and feel safe doin it. Any trucks over 14000 gvw here fall into a different set of laws that we dont need.
I gotta feel that the numbers are so conservative from the MFG's Any time you tow there is risk, its up to you to mitigate and plan for that risk. My old F250 (89) has 500k miles, and semi floating axles, for years it hauled around a 3.5 ton sand spreader, had to add leafs front and rear to get it to ride right, still all original save for twisted drive shafts. My F350 dually (99) towing a 5th toy hauler is over gvw as soon as the trailer is hooked, its rated for a gvw of 11k and its 8800 empty and 750 pounds over gross and its not even on the helper springs yet. I've towed cross country with the 250 at 26000 pounds. Just drive like the brakes don't work and leave a really good following distance. I will say to give myself a fighting chance, I've upgraded the trailer to 12k axles with hydraulic disc brakes, the electric over hydraulic system does have a short lag, less than half a second, but once they start clamping, its like Atlas himself has latched onto your trailer and welded it to the earth. My mini and trailer, lessee, trailer used to weigh about 6k before new axles and the mini is 16k, so 22k and it tows like a peach with a dually. I'm not sure I'd want to subject a 250 to that unless it was kansas.