There is a 100,000 cubic yard pile of dirt and essentially one half of it needs to be pushed onto the other half. Have a john deere 650 dozer and FEL. Would love to hear any opinions on best strategy, how to make sure I'm running dozer efficiently. Haven't used the FEL much, not sure how to make the best use of it. Attaching pictures. Been at it about 40 hours so far and progress is slow. I don't have much experience with this. Any advice appreciated
Picture #4 has what looks like a push slot going. That is the most efficient method for pushing dirt. If the FEL is larger, that would be more efficient IMO.
Welcome to the Forums CJ! Glad to have you. There's a lot to unpack on your first post. What size and type FEL do you have?
A john deere 344 with a big dirt bucket on it. The other thing about the dirt is that it's packed down and needs to be worked up, which the FEL does not do well. I was thinking maybe there's a way to break the dirt up, push it somewhere I can grab it with the FEL and then go dump it. At that point it kind of seems like just pushing it in the push slot I have going might be faster anyway though.
The pile in the picture does not appear to be 100k CY. Is that the only pile? TBH a 650 and 344 loader are woefully small to move 100K CY anytime soon. It can totally be done it's just going to take a while. For instance back in 2020 it took us a month and 1/2 to move around 20K CY with a 330 Next Gen and 325FL loading 15 triaxles at 18 CY loose loads. The trucks had a 45 minute turn around and we were working 9 hr days. We averaged 150-160 loads a day for 6 weeks. I pushed every one of those loads off at our dump. I felt like Newman on Seinfeld - "The dirt just keeps coming Jerry - it never stops!".
Yeah my boss (this isn't my normal job, he just bought a dirt pile and needs it to be moved) handed me this job and expected it to be a week or two. Once I got into it I realized it was probably going to take me months with the equipment I have! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy! And yeah it is probably 10k then but I thought I remember being told it was 100. Either way, thanks for the reply!
what you don't want to do is waste moves. Make sure the goal and grades are defined.
That's another problem. Originally I was pushing the dirt further than it technically needed to be moved, but it was so I could control the shape the pile was gonna end up. But I got told I was wasting time and fuel. He seems to think I can push half of the pile right up to the property line and call it good, which isn't actually possible in my mind. Wanted some expert opinions before I went to him to tell him it's a totally different job than he has in mind.
I was thinking operation plowshare but that's very different. What would help is to get a buddy to run the loader while you dig with the dozer, I run a 644E that digs like a champ. Maybe leverage the loader to dig one end of the pile like a stockpile instead of running it like a dozer. Scoop and ferry operation. Getting some measurements can help get the size of the material to be moved into a known quantity.
Sure push up some loose for the loader at the very far end, doze a good haul road and have the loader go to the far end of the fill. Push slot the middle.
Like CM mentioned, that doesn't look like 100K cy, actually to me I don't think it is quite 10K cy just looking at the photo. Typically speaking, the least expensive way to move dirt up to 300' is with a dozer, but you will be pushing uphill, so that detracts from your production. If you have the option, it may be less expensive to push the material farther rather than higher. As mentioned, stay in a slot, and try to do your cutting flat rather than uphill, to the extent possible. You have a cut portion and a carry (push) portion in each pass. It is better to start cutting close to your fill and work your way backwards to the end of your cut on each pass. This way you are cutting with relief right in front of you. No need to go all the way to the back of the pile each pass until it is time to clean up, and this also allows you to cut a bit downhill on a typical scensario. Where you are pushing onto an existing pile these guidelines are not as effective because everything has to go uphill, but keep them in mind and you will see the difference.
I wonder about the wear and tear and time if it'd be cost effective to rent a big machine for a week.
The OP is not the money man, so I doubt that will happen. I know that my boss won't go for renting if I can do it at all with what we have, no matter how it pencils out. It makes no sense to me but the checks keep landing in my account.
Rental is expensive with all fees added on. Then you have to have a rental clause in your inland marine policy or pay the rental house's insurance rate. Rental is great for something like OP is doing however my Cat dealer heavy rents division (not the Rental Store) only rents the heavier D6 and 330 sized machines and up on a monthly basis. I don't like to rent either unless we need a piece of iron we don't have. There is no sense in renting a 336 for a month if I can do it with our 325FL in 5 or even 6 weeks. I own the 325 so why spend an extra $12K total for a months rental on a 336? Those 2 extra weeks cost fuel, maintenance and labor which are less than $12K. Of course this all depends on the job, the facet of the industry and such. Time is money but sometimes it costs you more to buy the time than the money you are making.
If I had a 325 I'd be looking to rent a 450 or bigger for bulking. the 325 still moves some dirt. I'm sitting in a 120 and wishing for a 200 sometimes, for extended work at 15' or deeper. The 120 is on her toes at that point and no way to reach back and fix anyrthing. I have a job coming in August that I will probably bench down into. That gets old.
Interesting. Our Heavy Rents does rent by the day/week/month.
I should've said only "wants" to rent by the month. They price it so it only makes sense to rent by the month.
*If* there is 50k of dirt to move, and *if* you can move 2 yds per push, and *if* you can average 2 minutes per push, it will take you approximately 2 months at 15 hours per day to get it done. Good luck and I hope you have good air and a good radio.
Rented a 349 for 2 months back in 2020 to set box culverts. IIR it was just shy of $18K a month with all the fees. We have a rented equipment rider on our inland marine. Had to have that size and really needed larger for the boxes.
I have a few happy hours in JD's 490, loading trucks, and a summer in a Hitachi 450, doing a 186,000 yard "extra" with 7 offroad trucks.
Practice and stick to Front to Back Dozing always making use of slot cuts, don't waste any time pushing things where they are not needed, when you cut your Muck and have a blade full don't try cutting more, ease your blade up slightly and chip in to 2nd gear F.
Just reviewed your pictures chap, you need a towed Scraper to hook on to and you would see things take shape fast, hard to judge the Cube without a measure or something to scale off, but looks a lot less than 100'000 cube, possibly 16-20'000 cube, 40 days would slay it.
Or find a nice vintage Michigan 675 and a fuel truck!