Does anybody have experience with these pull pans?I am not the company accountant but it seems to me that these are prone to premature tire failure. Has anybody tried to rectify their pan tire short comings?
Premature failures? What kind of failures? Under-inflation or running over steel pointed objects creating small holes that aren't noticed? I can recommend tire pressure monitoring that the operator can see in the cab. doranmfg.com I'm a dealer. Sensors are available for large bore stems.
I haven't run these scrapers specifically. Are the tires different from similar scrapers? What type of tire failure are you seeing? Punctures? Sidewall cuts? Tread separation? Casing failure? Are the caps installed on the valve stems? What type of sites are you working on? Are they rocky? Any debris from previous buildings or parking lots? Or greenfield sites with clean dirt? What tire pressure are you running? Over or under inflated? Are the haul roads kept clear of anything that'll harm tires? Are the operators checking the rigs over before starting and at every break? I'm my opinion the operators should be looking over the entire rig and especially the tires every morning, at lunch time, and end of shift at a minimum. Pictures of the tires may help.
Solid Deal tires???
What brand, model, specfications, & TRA Rating of tyres do you have on your scrapers at this time.? All the spec sheet say is 26.5R25. Are you using radials.?
Tire failure is a pretty generic term. Are the tires failing or just loosing air?
OK let me back this up.It seems like belt or cord separation and then a bulging area that blows.The resulting sound from the blow out makes anybody on-site think there is a terror attack. Nige,I assume they are replacing with like spec tires,but I generally stay away from those machines if possible so I don't pay close attention . AMBMike they are usually in mud and clays,currently running in sand.Tire inflation is a good question ,the inner tire is impossible to check, the outer tire would be possible but the guys dont(at least they grease fairly regularly) Questionable Wizards pressure sensors with a cab remote may be the right tool to have,I will pass that idea on to the guys whith the check book. It just seems to me that one of the pans are down every couple of months with a failure. I just never see haul trucks or scrapers with such tire issues.
That doesn't help much. Just as an example if the OEM tyres are in any way borderline as regards load-carrying capacity (seen it plenty of times on many different types of machine) then replacing "like with like" is only inviting another failure. Need the data as requested above - size, brand, model, specfications, & TRA Rating. Add to that list cold inflation pressure. Help us to help you by providing something to go on. You can do whatever you like with pressures but if the tyre itself is not up to the job then you will be flogging a dead horse. Why.? Doesn't the inner have an extended valve stem that allows it to be checked from the outside.? If not that is a major design flaw.
I haven't operated these scrapers specifically but similar scrapers have the outer valve stems pointed out and the inner valve stems pointed toward the center. Typically these are individually mounted, not a dual wheel setup. Each tire rotates individually and is not connected to the others. To check the tire pressure you lower the scraper until it lifts the tires free then squat down behind and to the side of (not under) the tire and rotate it until the stem is in reach. You can check all 4 tires with a gauge in ten minutes or less unless the tire is caked with mud.
Tire spacers ,they need to be thrown away
It's possible the factory underestimated the load weight and these things over load them selves.I will be back up there tomorrow and get some size and load ratings off the pan
Excellent, but while you are doing that get all the information from the tyres as well. A few photos might not go amiss either.
WHAT BRAND are they???
Are the tires blowing out the original tires? I'm sure there are some outfits looking for the cheapest way to replace tires and will try to get away with using the lowest cost tires that fit but may not have as many plies as the original tires. Also if they're running lower pressures because of soft conditions they might have to use tires with even more plies than the original or have to run recommended pressure. I've seen a lot of old scrapers and even loaders with questionable looking tires that look to be original but are still holding up just fine.
We run loads of MTS scraper pans. No abnormal tire failures usually just getting punctures from debris or operator error. Personally sounds like the pans are being over loaded, that's on the operators though. They should know when to stop.
What kind of nonsense is this. Overloading a scraper? I can't imagine anything of the sort. If the tires can't handle what can fit in the scoop, GET DIFFERENT TIRES.
When the county improved the road to my property they had an old 627 scraper that at one point had the back tires bounce off the ground with a full load. Didn't hurt anything but the guy driving said not to tell the boss (public works manager) who was checking on the progress. They also had an old pull scraper behind a D8H and no tire issues even when pulling it on the highway. The D8 was on the trailer and pulled the scraper behind. Perhaps some pics. of the suspect tires would help.
It's all speculation until we have good data including: 1. Pictures of the tires both pre and post failure. 2. Tire brand, recommended inflation pressure for expected load, and load rating. 3. Tire inflation. Are they over, under, or at recommended inflation for the load? 4. Which tires are failing? Inner, outer, or both equally? 5. Are the scrapers stock or have side boards been added? 6. Are the pulling units tracked or on tires? If on tires are they having failures as well? If tracked are they lasting as expected? 7. What condition are the haul roads? 8. Are the failures happening approximately equally across all units or are some operators experiencing more failures than others? Pictures of normal operating conditions and videos of how the scrapers are typically operated would also help.
Putting almost 50 yards in a 35 yard scraper is window licking stupid.
Are the scrapers modified? How are they getting 40% more than rated capacity?
Either they have ridiculous side boards, or the material is that sticky that it's piling up.
Bingo.If they are not full we are not getting anything done.The more opinion I read here and looking at them yesterday they just may be undersized for the design.They are not much more than a loader tire. The remote pressure monitors may be a wise investment. I have a couple pictures but I have to adjust the format somehow
I see 657-627 cutting till they overflow so that is how the jobsite usually goes
Did you get any of the details I asked for earlier regarding the tyres.?
That's how all scrapers work. Fill the bowl until the material spills over the sides, at that point lower the apron, lift the box and give it beans. There is a very good YT channel on scraper operation by an outfit called SoCal Earthmovers. Their videos shows how scrapers SHOULD be run. - https://www.youtube.com/@SoCalEarthMovers
I was hoping to post pictures but a format of heic which I have never seen is stopping me at the moment.The tire size is 26.5R 25 ,more of a loader tire,probably underrated. I amtrying to figure out heic to jpg format.Sometimes I just dislike this electronic age.
Get the photo up on your PC screen and use the snipping tool on it.? Or Google "heic to jpg". It seems to throw up a million results. Unfortunately 26.5R25 tells me very little. It's the make, TRA rating, load rating, etc, etc, (all of which is on the sidewall) that I need.
Curious if the radial tires are the original tires? Radial tires generally squat more. On front wheel assist Ag tractors with loaders many farmers prefer bias ply tires because they keep their shape much better especially when turning sharp. Maybe they put loader tires on that are a lower ply rating?
Well, after a bit of digging, I see that the average weight rating for 26.5-25 tires is about 25k, they can go to 33k. *If*, and I mean IF they actually are getting over 50 yds per load, if we use 2500 lbs per yard, that's 125k, plus probably about 35k for the scraper to get 160k. Tongue weight on those pans is like 65/35, so let's say conservative numbers put the load on the tires at 100k+. Even if they are running premium tires, 33k each, they could still be overloading tires if they aren't paying attention to where they are driving and running the tires on a ridge. As far as I'm concerned, if they've modified the pans to get 50 yards, they can pound sand and keep spending money on tires. Otherwise, the operators are going to have to adjust their loading if they want to quit buying tires.
I'm also going to throw a few numbers out here. From the MT28 spec sheet the Max Rated GVW is just over 52,000kg. I will assume 56,000. Also from the spec sheet 75% of the weight (42,000kg) when loaded is on the rear axle. That gives a load per tyre of 10,500 kg From my Bridgestone OTR data book a 26.5R25 VMT, TRA E-3, 2-star rated earthmover tyre (recommended for scraper service) will carry 10,600kg using a cold inflation pressure of 69psi, 11,200kg @ 73psi, and 11,500kg @ 76psi. Maximum speed under those conditions would be 50km/h or 30mph.
Need some pics. and more tire info. If higher sides weren't added it couldn't be overloaded that much.
Not running Ling Long Ding Dongs are we?
Or maybe Double Coin...... OTR Tires, Off-The-Road Tires | Double Coin Tires Double Coin’s OTR tires are heavy duty and built for today’s severe requirements, also see their farm tires, off-the-road tires, earthmover tires www.doublecointires.com
I think it'd be helpful to have these questions and the questions asked by others answered.
Negligence is the number one killer of tires. I.E. I kicked the tire last week.
The OP seems to have lost interest when in fact the solution to the problem was in all probability quite simple.
I think you're right. I was hoping to get pics. I really wanted to see 50 yds in a scraper rated for 33.6 yds with factory sideboards.
That's exactly how they were doing it when I saw it. Super sticky clay just piling up. Was even damaging the rear "spoiler" with how heavy it was.
I thought of this thread and the mention of it being impossible to check the inner tire air pressure on MTS scrapers today when I was looking at an older Icon pull scraper. The tires are currently on the ground but if it was hooked to a tractor with the wheel frame in this position they would be 8-12 inches off the ground and easily rotated by hand. Photos are the showing right inner tire from the left side of the scraper and rear view. This is pretty typical of scrapers I've been around. Are the MTS scrapers set up differently?