For the beginning of this tale, go here HeavyEquipmentForums Pulled the air filter housing and the DPF. Planned on a leak down test but getting to the glow plugs was such a hassle I opted to just do the compression check. Cylinders 1, 3 and 4 were all over 400 psi, within 30 psi of each other. Cylinder 2, 0 psi. Pulled the valve cover and the injectors, of course #2 was clean as a whistle. The others had some carbon on them but not bad. Tried to boroscope through the injector port but could only get down to the shoulder. Manually rotated the crank while videoing but could not really see much, but #2 did have an odd reflection. Now I know that was the hole. So set about removing the turbo and exhaust manifold all together, then the inlet manifold. The inlet was considerably harder to get to everything with the fuel rail, harnesses, and lines on the left side of the motor. Head came off pretty easily and the big reveal was this: My question is this, can I just replace #2 piston with the kit / and the lower bearing? Or while I’m in there do I do all the pistons? She has 2500 hours on her. Guidance is appreciated. Thanks.
Again, I would appreciate some old gear wisdom here. Replace one piston and move on, or while I'm there, replace all 4 pistons?
Your choice. For sure check cross hatch, probably at least hone and new rings. You are aware that an injector failure is likely what took out the piston? New injectors, check/clean fuel rail, lines and pump. Check / clean fuel tank and lines.
Post a pic of cylinder walls.
Ozarkag, is the cross hatch in the cylinder walls? Can I hone in place (drill attached hone?) Would an injector failure show on the injector itself? It looks like the others. I'll admit I have no idea what punched the hole. Copy on rail, line, pump and tank cleaning. Thanks for the feedback.
The injector tip is what blew the fuel at wrong angle and that is it, nice hole. Will have to find out if the liner is damaged, which it probably is. Then find out if it is a replaceable liner without a machine shop job. That far apart will warrant checking the rest out properly. If crosshatch is done wrong you will have exxcessive oil burn, and more problems in exhaust system. Couple things to be mindful of. Simon C
Simon. Thanks for this info. Is the injector likely bad? Worth have them cleaned and tested? I'll shoot some cylinder wall photos today. I appreciate this guidance.
If the machine hours are indeterminate and you are rebuilding the engine then IMHO a set of new genuine OEM squirters would be in order.
Injector was shooting sideways, and yes it is junk. Nige beat me.
No liner. I suspect cylinder wall damage which would require engine removal, tear down, and rebore to oversize. IF no damage/ scoring yes can hand hone to try to get new rings to seat. Definitely a "shade tree" fix though.
Two videos. One to show existing crosshatching, the second to show the wear from the holed piston. Cyl 1: Cyl 2 Possible, or idiotic, to attempt to hand hone #2? Pulling this motor out to send off to a shop blows the time and budget, bad. BUT, if I"m shooting myself in the foot trying to patch it, I get it. Thanks again for y'all weighing in.
Nige. Machine hours at 2400. IF I can work on the problem in machine, and I know I might be dreaming, is it worth at least testing the injector? Cleaning and flow testing is $45. New injector is $600. Thanks.
Looked at that video of Cylinder number 2 and she is not so nice. It was probably water and fine dirt that took out the injector. At 2400 hours, who is to know the condition of the the other 3 injectors. Yes expensive, but your time must be worth something and who wants to have to do again at maybe a greater cost. An ol sample from the auction house would of revealed lots of this problem, from excess fuel, to aluminum and iron counts way too high. Its yours now. Hope you got it for cheap. Simon C
Thankfully, yes, I bought at a price that leaves room to fix things and still come out ahead. You make a great point about time and money. At this point in my life I have more time than money so my shade tree mechanic approach. I'm going to have the injectors cleaned and flow tested Wednesday. And while not ideal, I have found videos of in-frame re-sleeving of Kubota's. Do the sleeves come honed, or does the crosshatching have to be done once it's installed?
Just to let you know, the injector that came out of the grenaded hole in piston is garbage, the other 3 can be tested. 1 injector will be new no matter what or you will pay dearly. If you have not mixed up the holes they come out of, you know which one is junk. Problem with a patch on the cylinder is that it will most likely cause problems in the exhaust downstream. ( Turbo wheel accumulating carbon ) If the machine has any filter after exhaust, will plug faster. Simon C
There is the possibility of the cylinder being honed a hair bigger, but I doubt it. Depends how deep the markings are when the aluminum comes off. Have seen lots of things done, but more shade tree mechanic stuff.
Excellent info, thank you Simon. I'll order an injector today.
Stay far away from auction equipment. This is the norm most of the time.
Indeedy. There is usually a good reason why any machine goes to the auction, and it's not to give some buyer a good deal.
Not everything at the auction is a POS, but every POS is at the auction.
An auction is like playing a slot machine at the casinos. You are gambling with your hard-earned money for very little return. Do some hit a jackpot...............sure they do, but the house odds are tremendous to overcome.
Could not of said it more accurately. Simon C
I've had good luck on equipment from auctions, including big items. My luck ran out on this one. I priced in a replacement motor at $12k, excluding my time of course. So if I can recover this with new piston, rings and injector, plus the fuel system deep clean, I'll feel pretty good all around. I count the learning curve as valuable too. Never wrenched on a diesel and I appreciate all of you offering perspective.
Don't feel bad, if I would of gone to an auction 30 years ago, I would never of thought of getting a sample. People on this form have made plenty of mistakes before, but like digital camera pictures, we delete them like they never happened. Simon C
I think you'll end up having to do something with that cylinder wall. The video isn't great, there's a lot of reflection, but it looks damaged beyond honing to me.
If you drag your fingernail across the scratches can you feel them? If yes chances are they are too deep and will need to be machined out. If they are visible but you are not able to feel them you can try a hone. Not sure what you plan to use machine for when repaired either. If it is something that is only going to see an hour or two in a month I would be more willing to go about things the shade tree way. If you plan to use this thing day in and day out to make a living I would do everything I could to make things right.
1466IH Yes, I can feel the ridges in the cylinder wall. Late night reading suggests that Kubota does not match their sleeves to the pistons. I'll call my local dealer and inquire. Several videos show guys just carefully chipping the sleeve out and knocking a new one in place. Seems to be the direction I'm headed. And this TL8 is for farm use. Mostly moving logs and brush, some dirt work and grading periodically. Definitely not daily use. And Simon, thanks for the encouragement regarding my auction casino purchases. On the whole, I'm on the positive side of things and, by the grace of God, debt free with some helpful equipment. I"m not a glutton for punishment, just on a budget. I learned years ago that diesel is cheaper than back surgery.
If this engine had a normal exhaust pipe then a shade tree fix might be appropriate for a low use situation. But having a DPF means the engine must be in perfect condition at all times or the exhaust system will get clogged over and over. Leading to more hyper expense. There can't be anything wrong with the engine or the machine will not work for long. This is by design, somewhat. It ensures that more older machines go to the scrap heap much sooner than was the case before. Forced turnover.
Birken, you are making the case for ridding myself of the DPF...leave it to the government and collusion with manufacturers...bankers and demons make good company.
Have you had the oil pan off and checked the bottom end yet. I would at least want that piston out before I made any decisions on repair.
Pulling the pan today or tomorrow. And to your point, yes, I want to see the bearings. Aside, an old performance engine builder neighbor came by just now and is very confident honing will restore the cylinder. He's offered to do it for me in frame. I'll update as I go.
I would suggest to use something like dry ice to shrink the new sleeve somewhat and reduce the amount of hammering required. If you have any farmers around who use artificial insemination one of them may just have a Dewar Flask for liquid nitrogen. Use that and your biggest challenge might be to prevent the shrunken sleeve falling straight through the cylinder block...........
Thanks Nige. Great idea.
Does the oil pan come off a tl8 in frame.
Mobiletech, Yes, the pan came off after a fight in frame. The RTV was a bear. No gasket. Easy to get to the bolts and the pan came out through the access panel easily. Unbolted the pickup tube and got to the rod bolts with ease. I did not find any metal in the pan, so that's a mystery. I may pull the oil pump and break it down to be safe. Old neighbor came by and inspected the crank, rod and wrist bearings and declared them in good shape. As you can see the piston is ugly. He was surprised it had not detonated, guessing the top ring held the pieces together. He is going to hone #2 for me. I'll order 4 piston and ring sets, bearings, and upper gasket kit. Also valve seals and have the head cleaned, machined and the valves lapped.
That piston did not have too many power strokes left in it. Have seen the same a few times before. Might be a good idea to check the rod top bushing incase it is on the verge of coming loose. Guy hates to have to go back into it again. Let us know how it turns out. Simon C
I think you figured it out, but this engine does not use a sleeve or liner. Is a parent bore engine. Typical repair is bore out and use oversize pistons, unless it it damaged too badly, than bore and repair sleeve. Only sleeve would be a repair sleeve installed at a machine shop. If you're looking at Chinese kits online, yes they show sleeves, it is a repair sleeve only, and not something anyone except a machine shop will install.
Update: All 4 injectors passed. The owner of the shop (incredible service BTW), City Diesel in Knoxville, TN, suggested the piston may have been a bad casting, someone used ether to start, or they simply replaced an injector after a tip let go. I've ordered the gasket kit and will get pistons and rings ordered today.
If the cylinder wall looks anything like that piston, it just as well go to the machine shop.
That is great wisdom! hehe. My channel has proof of that! Really sorry you have had to go through this. The auctions are always a risk, but sometimes it pays off and you get lucky!
Have a customer right now that just bought an L90G Volvo wheel loader at auction for about $30k under market market value. He called when they delivered machine and was asking how to get it started to unload off trailer. Told him how to jump it and didn't hear much more until yesterday. He said that after he unloaded it he pulled it straight into hos shed and the only thing he had done was replaced batteries but couldn't get the coupler to lock onto forks or bucket. I get there and the dash is flashing engine stop and the emissions light is on. Looked at the coupler and the cylinder and pin assembly is completely gone with the hoses capped off. I told him with all the money he saved he will be able buy all the parts needed and the labor for me to fix it all
Well, to put a bow on this whole story, I got my TL8 running like a top. My neighbor, a good old hillbilly that builds racing motors, honed out the number two with 220 grit stones as well as rehashed the other three cylinders. I then installed four new pistons, rings and wrist pins but no bearings as all the low end bearings look great. Surprisingly, my rebuild kit and gasket kit came from China that I ordered via Alibaba and the total cost of the gasket kit, pistons, rings, wrist pins, snap rings was around $240 and the shipping was 150ish via DHL which took much longer than expected. As a reminder, this was an entirely in-frame repair. The skid plate on the Takeuchi covers the oil pan with room to spare so getting to the bottom was a breeze, it's also how I was able to change the starter before starting on this process. Otherwise you couldn't get your hands in there to get to the starter. So a full gasket kit, 4 new pistons, RTV on the oil pan, all new fluids except hydraulic fluid, all new filters (except the hydraulic pickup, that drain and clean is coming soon), drained the diesel tank and added some fresh juice, blew the radiator out, charge the battery, purge air and it started right up. I let it idle for a couple of hours to seat the rings and then ran it over the weekend moving logs for a couple of hours. It performed flawlessly. No smoke, lots of power and it sounds wonderful. Thanks to everybody that weighed in. I really appreciate the help. Oh, also, I did have the head cleaned and valves checked at the local machine shop. He said it had a tiny bit of warp, they took 8,000ths off the head, but on the whole it looked really good. So that's the latest and greatest for this beautiful little piece of equipment. And while there was lots of commentary about buying at auction, I knew the roll of the dice could include this level of surgery on the motor or even a replacement motor. But I'd say I got lucky and I'll take that kind of luck. Dropbox www.dropbox.com
Just curious, this is a DPF motor, how did you know it does not smoke?
I wish I could get away with repairs like this .....
Nah. Lot of my stuff is from auctions.
What do the rest if you recommend for break-in?
I certainly wouldn't just let it sit and idle for a couple of hours. Maybe a few minutes to warm up then starting on light load and increasing it with varying RPM for a while.
That’s the worst thing you could have done but to each their own. I did that with a Kubota V1902 one time after ball brush cylinders and the blow by was terrible along with the oil consumption. Most rebuilders recommen starting it and bringing it up to full RPM’s and working through the RPM’s and never letting it really idle. It is also best if you can put a load on it and stress the motor back and forth to seat the rings. It is also even do this on my HD motors I rebuild.
1/2 throttle for 10 minutes no load, then full load high idle for 15 minutes. Then back to the start and repeat.
I checked for leaks, ran it up and down the road once, them towed my 5th wheel to Portland and back to break in my 5.9 common rail
I've got to stop multiple times after any kind of engine work. I'm too tight to replace all the coolant hoses while I'm there, and I always have a old hose leaking after reinstallation. You would think I'd learn. But I always think "the hose was fine before I took it off"...
Things she said for $1000 Alex
My truck went through some oil for rhe first couple of changes and now it uses the half on the stick in 4000. I can live with that.