So it has been painfully obvious to me over the last couple years that 3D is important. It is nearly impossible to compete with the competition who has 3D/GPS machine control on many projects. Several times this year on bids, the spec calls for GPS equipment to be incorporated on the project. Aside from requirements like this, the shear time and labor savings of 3D machine control makes it a game changer on capturing bids and being more profitable when you do get the bid. So my thought process has been to focus on what aspect of the various project is causing the most pain in not being 3D (I have 2D on two excavators and a box grader). It came down to excavating down to subgrade on building pads and completing asphalt/concrete grade on parking lots. While not impossible to do with staking, the time, money in staking, restaking projects, and the over/under ex done when doing it by the eye of the operators is very painful as well. The next item I think is most important to me is the excavator. The next point I am deliberating is what piece of equipment gives me the most flexibility/capability at a price point that I can justify. Here is where I am at currently, but am open to hearing other opinions. I would mount this on my Minitour. I would run this off of a Total Station, and while there are some limitations that, it will give me the accuracy for asphalt and concrete prep. I can also use the total station for other things as well, but that's of lessor concern. This Sharp Grade attachment, because the ends can hydraulicly fold in, I can use it like a box grader. I currently have a Sharp Grade HD B87 2D box grader, that I have presold if I go this route. I currently have a Bobcat grader attachment as well that I will sell. Fully extended the blade length is 11'. With the weight, power and the amount of track that the Minitour puts on the ground, I think this will be very effective at cutting grade at a productive level. I like this over a dedicated compact grader, its cheaper, works better in tight areas, easier to transport and for the size of project I do it fits better. There are 3 comparably sized excavating companies here using this same method. They 3D'd this attachment (they all use a BC grader) as their 3D equipped machine and use 2D or eyeball it to get close and finish with this concept for precision. I am about 90% sure who's 3D system I will use, but I will see that the thoughts are on this before I discuss that. I am curious what the thoughts are on this.
KS how is the search going? Missed this back in April but here's what I am currently looking at. Went to a Cat demo of the new 265 and put an order on one. Also looking at the Cat grader blade with wings and outfitting it with Trimble/Sitech GPS. GPS has been such a game changer on our D3 and now 325 that I want to implement it on a CTL. The main function of this CTL setup will be to fine grade parking lots where we don't have to move the D3 back in. It's roughly $300 each way to move the D3 so it will not only be a money savings but a time savings since we can mob the machine behind a pickup. Interested to hear your experience.
I really like Sharpgrade's box blades. I haven't got to see one of their graders in person yet, but I imagine they just as good or better.
Isn't your new minotaur going to be kind of expensive to run, for just doing the final grading? You really don't need all that power and weight to just take off the last 3/4"? That and I'm just curious on how this works out, so if I make a comment here, I'll get notifications....
IIRC KS'a Minotaur has rubber tracks? Shouldn't be much more expensive to run than our 279's. In order to utilize the latest 3D tech either GPS or total station, one needs the newest machine to put it on. Neither one of my 279's will run Earthworks without some hardware redo which doesn't make sense to invest on an older machine like a CTL. I'd rather buy a new 265, sell a 279 and set it up on Earthworks so the interface is consistent across our 3 most used machines. These systems offer a lot more than just trimming the last inch or so.
I doubt it's more expensive per hour than an ~80 horsepower dozer with triple grousers and that's really starting to catch on. Eberhard in Austria has been using triple grouser dozers with blade wings up to D6R to place and final grade subbase at least as long as I've been on the internet.
So the process is still on going, but almost done. They have the GPS on the grader and are putting together a package to run the controls on the Minitour control handles. I don't plan on using this just to grade the final pass prior to asphalt or paving but to also making large cuts and fills on building sites. Sharp grade is rigging up a set of larger wings for the grader attachment for the Minitour. They are coming back out shortly to install the switches and finalize the install. We pushed 6,500 cy with the Minitour so far, its ability to push material is just flat impressive. I chose the grader attachment because I can rough in a jobsite with the dozer (not planning on 3Ding the dozer at least not yet), put the grader on with 3D and cut exactly to subgrade and then bring in the fill material and put all to exact grade with one machine. I can do everything with the this Sharp Grade grader that I did with my Sharp Grade box, but I can also do all the things that a grader of this type can do as well. The rippers on the back of the Minitour gives me the abiltiy to grade tougher conditions with the grader attachment. As far as the technology, if your not familiar with how all this works, it is worth investigating. While I knew the concept and now much more knowledgeable on it This LPS system, using a total station is exact, none of the issues you have with global GPS, and its more affordable, it is also scalable. The limiting factor is distance (depends on total station and cant run more than one machine off one total station. I think Topcon has an incredible system, which is why I went that way. Until I fully operational and have run it, I wont say anything more about it than that, but on paper and talking to those that run it, it is really a step above other options. I say that and I have been very happy with Scietech and Trimble, but right now I think Topcon has really captured the market for compact GPS/LPS technology.
I went GPS as we run an excavator and dozer at the same time in addition to working on sites where a total station is not optimum. Regardless the tech is impressive and has way more to offer than just finish/final grading. The total station will be much tighter on tolerances than GPS and one can work inside buildings. Our new 325 is packed with standard features as well as the Sitech added tech. From being able to weigh out and make sure the trucks are averaging 25 tons to cutting final grade this machine can do it. The best comparison I can make between our 2011 321DL and the 2024 325 is the 321 is a 90's Nokia flip phone and the 325 is the latest iPhone. Love the 321 and will never get rid of it for the basic fact it's simple and non DEF but we can't compete and make money with just it.
Hey KSSS, if you’re starting to get some real hours on your 550, I’d be interested in a formal review. I’m considering one later this year possibly. I could use a TV620 and a GPS dozer on some projects so I think this would fit the bill nicely.
I received a quote today for SharpGrade’s 116 model and couldn’t believe what I was reading. It was way dearer, like 75% more than Cat’s GB124. Definitely no electronics on the SG quote and, I assume, the same for the Cat blade. Is this what you blokes are seeing stateside or has someone stuffed up big time?
Q - I haven't asked for pricing yet on a GB 124 but getting ready to put the package together. When I get a quote I'll share.
I started one on the 550 a while ago and have informally been adding to it on other threads. After the LPS system is installed, I will do another. Buying the 550 was probably one of the best decisions I have made equipment wise. Thats a strong statement, and what is right for me, may not be for another operation, but it has become extremely valuable for us. We use it for dozing, all the other tasks you do with a big CTL, and once the LPS system is operational it will become even more valuable. I haven't yet used it for mulching but we are actively bidding mulching projects and will use it for that as well. After 100 hours, I have had zero issues warranty issues. My only complaint has been the lack of aux switches on the dozer handles. This issue is what we are solving by 3D printing additions to the handles to hold CAN buttons for the Sharp Grade. As far as 620 verse 550, the lack of buttons is something to consider depending on what your doing with it. We have been building large pads at a two county landfills, all material is pushed up on site, everything is trucked from that site to the pad site. Thats why I know exactly how many yards I have pushed. We then move the material on the pad with the 550 and a 370. We also use the rippers on the 550 to scarify the pad before we water it down for compaction. The machine has worked its way into numerous aspects of the project. The 550 is about 40k more than a 620 as far as I can tell. Worth everything penny for me, your situation may be different. Lastly I will say again, it is not hard to run the dozer, You Tube suggests it takes numerous hours to get good at holding grade. I have not found that to be true. The machine is very instinctive to run, at least I think so.
I don't think they are attachments that directly compare. I paid 57K for a Sharp Grade 128, it had some demo hours on it. That is with the 2D system.
The SharpGrade is certainly heavier. We have a 255 on order and at 1300 kg I think a G116 would be as much as it could handle. The GB124, although wider, is under 950 kg. Here at the moment, the 116 with all software, Bluetooth tablet etc. for 2D would be similar to what you paid for your machine when converted to our Pacific peso.
I just bought a cat GB124 it was $29k with out tax and had sitech put a 2D laser system W/autos on my 259D3 it was with the telescoping masts about $14k, that didn't include the tablet I have one on my sany that we just swap between machines, but the tablet is $1650.00
Welcome to the Forums! Glad to have you. Going to a Cat tech demo day this next Wed. Supposed to have a 3D GPS grader blade on a 265, 815 with the compaction tech, an autonomous compactor and other tech oriented stuff.
Thanks, 3d is the goal but I don't have the type of work/clients to support the purchase price. I told my sales guy,you want me to buy GPS then you introduce me to the company's that expect me to have it and all the money that goes along with those jobs and I will buy it once the contract is signed
We're running 3D auto on a D3 and 325 at the moment. To say this tech has fundamentally changed how we finish dirt is an understatement. No more stakes, no more lasers, no more strings and most importantly no waiting for surveyors. The investment is large and the tech is daunting to learn but it's worth it.
Going to a Cat dealer demo tomorrow where they are supposed to have an autonomous compactor along with other GPS equipped gear. Should be interesting.
We also ended up settling on a GB124 with 2D Trimble, apparently Cat aren’t offering the smaller version here anymore. The 255 seems to be handling it OK. Almost a shame to put cattle on such a nice smooth surface.
Nice looking setup. I bought one of these recently too. Been liking it so far. You just need an elevated tripod yet ot get those receivers above your cab
That's Smooooth, did they tell you about setting the lasers above the cab so you can grade both ways and to keep the beam from bouncing off the glass. You can also get a set of telescoping masts($2500.00) so you don't have to climb up there to set up. They have metric/imperial units markings on them. You will need them if you decide to go UTS/GPS I ended up with them because the black stock was bent from the factory and none of the replacements they ordered were any better. Sitech said the measure up would account for the bend but it was noticably visible I had a few people ask me is that bent, did you run in to something, is that going to be accurate?and so on. But in the meantime here is a link for a rule sticker that I put on the black ones to save me time. I like to set only one laser to tone and set the other one to the same measurement so with the stickers I can get that without having to fumble around with the tape measure and the receiver. Workbench Ruler – Adhesive Backed – 1 Inch Wide X 8 Foot Long – Right to Left – Fractional – 1/16” Grads - Amazon.com Workbench Ruler – Adhesive Backed – 1 Inch Wide X 8 Foot Long – Right to Left – Fractional – 1/16” Grads - Amazon.com a.co
I didn't need the elevating tripod with my mini but when I got the grader blade I ordered this one. It was way cheaper than the one sitech quoted me. Before ordering it I would set the laser up on the truck or trailer with my other tripod. Not always a option though. Bosch 110 in. Heavy-Duty Aluminum Quick Clamp Elevator Tripod with Heavy-Duty Webbing Shoulder Strap BT300HD - The Home Depot Visit The Home Depot to buy Bosch Heavy Duty Elevator Tripod BT300HD www.homedepot.com
Yeah, I hadn’t got around to finding an elevating tripod when this little job came up. It was really only a one way deal anyway, pushing the excess down a 4% slope. I like the tape measure idea.
That's a nice looking setup! Does the 255 handle it OK? We have a GB124 set up for both GNSS and UTS that we've been pushing with a 299D3 and now a 285XE.
It struggles to shift bulk material around, but then we have other gear to help with that. No trouble with stability or carrying the blade around, it just runs out of traction when pushing a big load. It comes in to its own finishing in tight spaces where we can’t a grader etc.
Congrats! We run 2D on a Cat box blade that is extremely accurate.
I have a little trouble with one of my wings on my GB 124 not wanting to go forward like it should. If you're not careful they slap back so fast and then the one side seems to almost over center and the cylinder about cant get it started moving. Was curious if any one else had that trouble? Overall I like it. The masts do wobble a lot more than I like. I'm surprised it's as accurate as it is for how much they wobble. I may beef them up or just end up buying the telescoping ones. Its a lot of money for just masts.
The first time I used our GB124 the right wing wouldn't move at first. I tried cycling it several times then cycled the left side several times then back to the right side and it started moving slightly. It took several minutes of playing with it to get the full range of motion but it's been no problem since then. I have noticed if I'm trying to move one side against a load and it stalls the other side will move slightly... I've been really happy with the accuracy on ours and our concrete crews are happy as well. We're using a fixed mast for GNSS and UTS and it doesn't move much at all.
Those little cylinders are garbage, if you pull one back too far the other one moves and they don't hold very well un a big load. When they blow up I am going to look at replacing them with a boss snow plow cylinder I saw a guy complaining on YouTube about the stock mast being wobbly right out the gate. I agree $2500.00 was too much, but over the life of them tit really wasn't that bad and I would need them when I get GPS