Company I work is part of a big conglomerate of construction outfits . Corporate wise they have had a "Near Miss Reporting Policy " . Which means if you saw something that was a close call you need to report it . Example I read , "Dump truck was observed spreading gravel . Bed looked like it was higher than the power lines . I stopped the driver and informed him that he was close to the lines . Decided it was better to dump the rest of the load and spread with a skid steer ". That don't seem to bad and kinda mundane . My worry is that this reporting will be recorded and names put with it to be used against you or someone else a a later date . History proves they have no problem going back 3 years to dig something up to beat on you with . I think my boss is getting pressure from above ,About the lack of near miss cards turned in . He stated Thursday that we are behind in miss reporting and I have never received anything from a driver (while looking straight at me) . I'm really looking for opinions . As I find it hard to want to narc on someone or myself . Has anyone been hurt or canned over a near miss report ??
It'd sure make me nervous.
First, as a disclaimer, I've never worked for an employer so big that I didn't know the owner by his first name, so any "corporate" kind of behavior isn't really part of my experience. I'm passingly familiar with some similar programs as they're excercised in the aviation field though, and information is easy enough to find online. Here's ATSAP , which is the one the FAA has for air traffic controllers. It's stated purpose is: (Bold added for emphasis.) In other words, the way it works in practice is that, if you screw up, and you're not sure whether anybody else knows you did, the best way to protect yourself is to be the one to file a report. It provides the incentive to not try and cover up your mistakes. The program you're under, Tiny, doesn't sound like it provides any such incentive. Quite the opposite actually...
I go both ways on it. If someone is having a bunch of near misses that other people are catching and saving his but, then he isn't worth keeping around. That's how my finger got ripped off. We kept his loader op on even though she wasn't any good and constantly ignored signals. then one day she swung the machine while we were rigging because she thought it's what we needed. I was holding a chain up with one hand and making the shackle with the other. It didn't end well. on the other hand, sometimes a guy has a good run of bad luck. I think that every so often the slate should be wiped clean. Say you go a year, maybe sixteen months, with no issues everything goes back to zero.
while not directly at jeopardy from being fired (im the owner) i find the process to be decent to good. If they are requiring you turn something tell them you almost spilled your water on the floor of the truck but caught is just in time.
Gee wizz, you guys never want to head to the mines down under! near miss reporting has been par for the course for years, there is a a formula the safety god's have come up with regarding them by historical records, for every X many SPI's (significant potensional incidents) you will have an incident, for every X incidents you will have an accident and every X many accidents you will have a fatality main reason for the high level of safety systems is that large multi-national companys are self insured
We do near miss reports in my factory . might not be the same but we do it so we can see if it is a safty issue we should correct or if it is a worker and he should be moved to a position where he cant endanger anyone. it was hard at first to get people on board with this but after a while it was very good to have them as you could learn a lot from them as you cant always have eyes on the factory floor
The Near Miss reporting was introduced about 3 years ago . I have not heard of anyone being fired because of but I have very little interaction with the other companies . It was announced thru a weekly safety letter and no promise of remaining anonymous was made . The fact is , There is no real incentive to do this . If you do report and the safety guys come asking questions then you have them to deal with along with the work your suppose to be doing is stopped dead . I do understand managements view , Your catching a problem before it get's someone hurt or killed . I'm worried that it could be abused .
generally all reporting either near miss or incident no referance to names or contractor companies are made, if you string people up then no reporting will be done
As far as near miss reporting goes, it depends on the company. A lot of the time I find it to be a joke. As supervisor, the bosses say I should have at least one recordable near miss a week. Ive come up with stuff like Joe Dump truck driver not having his tailgate latched at the time of loading. They say its a software kind of thing that lets them track trends. Ive been told that the near miss does not have to happen on the job. It be as simple as being cut off in traffic on the way to the job. This is about the same time I stopped playing the game of reporting something just to have something report. If I Find something to be a true near miss, I will report it. If i have to report something i come across in traffic, I dont waste the time.
I've seen this at a couple of places and had to wonder how many people were reporting near misses just to enhance their positions with the management. Safety is one of my hot buttons on both sides. I had a co-worker at one of the fine establishments I worked at in the past who would scream safety to the hills every time a job came up that he didn't want to do. It became his personal crusade to monitor everyone's business and not get his done in a credible time frame. I came to believe that he thought that the only way he could make himself look good was to make every one else look bad. As far as I was concerned, this guy did more to make the environment unsafe as anything the company did. I left the company before he was let go. As far as I know they didn't require people to submit near misses after that.
When I worked at Kiewit they had a near miss policy too. We utilized it with pretty good success. All things reported were discussed at the daily tool box safety brief and it was a great way to start dialog about different ways to perform work. Sometimes things were done to truly make things better. I only heard of the "near miss reporting system" biting someone during discipline once and it was because the employee had NOT reported a near miss and later actually hit something. The higher ups would take the most impressive near misses to the weekly division meetings and discuss if others had similar experiences and how they were mitigated. It is a good process that I do believe in when it works properly and if there is a true commitment to safety and willingness to spend the money and time to make it a priority. I will say thou, Kiewit was the exception to the rule, they actually talked the talk and walked the walk. Almost every other place I have worked has been frowned upon to report anything I always feared it being used against me or others later. I say use it to your advantage, if something would make your job safer and easier, report the real near misses.
Near miss reporting plays a big roll in all the projects we do. And we always put names to it. Sometimes I have to have so many per day personally. Like "I was walking and noticed some scrub brush that could trip me so I replanned my rout around it." They should never be use against an employee, but that is up to your employer. If your nervous about them teach your guys to make them more positive like my example. And try and make them legitimate too. After realizing I have no choice but to get with the program it pretty easy for me to pick one thing out a day that is a good example. As we started a lift I realized I my be to close if the load was to fall so I took a few steps back. Getting into my truck I realized my boots where slick with mud so cleaned them off better. The fact is most of us do this stuff subconsciously, so all you really have to do is remember it.
Dozerboy, I'm glad you guys can do stuff like that, cause somebody's gotta work for the big companies. I personally have an excellent safety record, and in 17 yrs of having employees, I've only had one real injury. If I had to write down mess like that everyday, I'd slam my head in the truck door.
Far as I am concerned a near miss is an accident with a bit of good luck thrown into the equation. You're best of to state your concerns to your employers, so you know exactly where you stand. Question is what are you afraid off? Are you a bit of a wild man that has a lot of near misses? We all make mistakes and it's better to admit that than live in a fairy world that may well end in disaster because no one was willing to discuss safety.
If that question is for me Hendrik, no, as I said, I am very safe, and I insist that my employees be cautious also. What I was referring to is having to write up a certain number per day, spending time dreaming up and writing down stuff like: "I was walking and noticed some scrub brush that could trip me so I replanned my route around it." and "Getting into my truck I realized my boots where slick with mud so cleaned them off better." I am certainly not criticizing Dozerboy, because you do what you have to do. I just have no patience for writing up a report saying I wiped my boots off so some safety person can file it to justify having an administrative assistant. I always insist that the first thing my employees do when they make a mistake or something goes wrong is to tell me about it.
No I was wondering why Tiny has an issue with a safety system. Just trying to get some more background on what the go is, sure someone who deliberately breaches safety for whatever reason, needs to be either brought up to speed or shown the door before he/she hurts themselves or others. I can also see that if a company uses a safety system to do things other than improve and maintain safe operating procedures, then there would be a reluctance to use this system.
Now that you have turned the spotlight on me instead of the near miss reporting I'll explain . We are a very small cog in a gigantic machine . A Irish company owns us and a huge amount of companies , quarry's and finished materials outfits . Since bought by them they have tried a series of "One size fits all " programs . This is one more of them . After the downsizing in 09 the lowest guy on the list has seniority of 10 years . I spend more time with these guys than I do with my own family . None of us have a problem telling the other that they made a bonehead move . To me this is turning me into a narc on family . Seems set up to divide guys up instead of working together . My personal opinion is , Some safety dude or dudette needs something to justify their paycheck . Sending a memo out is waaaay better then actually getting out from behind a desk and getting out in the weather with the " Little People " . That again is my personal opinion . I want to be clear , I do not have a problem with the safety system . I do have a problem with this one deal .
We are a small company (30 workers) so we police ourselves. It has always worked.
I would have to write this up as a near miss every day! ointhead
that looks like the dudette that Tiny was talking about Seriously though, sure it feels like dobbing in someone when you are dealing with reports. However these sort of systems are designed for larger organisations and sure they are not always user friendly and can be intimidating. Remember though the near miss report filed at work site A might safe a life at work site Y because the safety system was reviewed and improved. From your point of view it is narcing on your mates but the company looks at it as a constant feedback system to ensure their safety policies are working. Perhaps you have some thoughts on how you would like the system to work?
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My company has started this recently. We also have to report any cut, scrape, or bruise as an accident. As a result our safety record went to **** and we were kicked out of some of our large mine site customers for having a poor safety record. Apparently if I cut myself on a nail on a shipping crate and the guy with me gets his arm cut off, the effect on the safety record is the same for both of us...which is ridiculous. My branch had the best safety record at something like 3,500 days without a lost time incident when our safety board that keeps count shorted out and now due to a few small cuts our record is shot.
The company I worked for was very serious on safety. It was a corporate timber grower, and harvesting safety was their biggest concern. Near misses have to be recorded, and such things as a forwarder driving over a stump and people from the community walking past the operation were counted. Personnel not wearing PPE and hangups in a mechanised operation are also considered near misses. The company worked out that 600 FACs (First Aid Cases) would lead to 30 MTCs (Medically Treated Cases), then to 10 LTIs (Lost Time Injuries), resulting in 1 Fatality. 2011 this formula was proved; a chainsaw operator was crushed beneath a tree after 11 LTIs. I suppose it depends on the company; you can be serious about safety without being pedantic. Also, if your onsite safety officer is terse and obstinate, people tend not to report accidents.
I am of two minds on this. I've seen it at it's worst when near miss/ potential accident reporting is a "rat" system and used to punish employees or contractors, usually by another contractor who is trying to divert attention from his own issues by making someone else look as bad or worse than he is. At it's best, it can be a safety tool to get employees thinking about performing their job safely, looking for potential hazards, and increasing their situational awareness at the start of and during their shift. Sort of ecourages you to get and keep your mind on the job. Of course if you punish people for reporting issues, you won't get much participation. I prefer the carrot to the stick approach, got a video camera as a reward once for suggesting that an icy path should be sanded. Trivial suggestion yes but the camera was cool.
I fully support reporting near misses.......provided they are actual near misses. Simply reporting for the sake of generating paperwork to justify having a reporting system in place is pointless, in my opinion. If there's something worth reporting, then there's the potential for rectifying the problem, which could possibly save someone from getting hurt. We have a Field Level Risk (FLRA) system where I work. In concept, it sounds like a great idea, but in reality, I feel it has an almost negative effect. We are required to fill out an FLRA card for every task we perform. If you are caught working without a filled out and signed card for the task you are working on, you will be subject to disciplinary action. The cards require you to list the tasks you will be undertaking, then all the potential hazards, and the steps you will take to mitigate each of those potential hazards. These are all handwritten, not a form where you circle a selection from a list. The biggest issue, is that it has to be done for every task. Not just tasks that are not a regular occurance, or something you are not familiar, but every task. So,if I have to perform shovel pit checks on three different shovels, then I have three seperate cards to fill out. In theory, this sounds like a good idea, but reality seems to disprove that. It seems that in most cases, the people filling out the cards, think only long enough to figure out something to write down, then switch off their brains because "I did my FLRA, so I don't have to think about it anymore.". I prefer to constantly watch for any hazards that may show up, and deal with them as we go, but this process wants you to think of anything that could happen before you start. Unfortunately, like I said, I find this causes most people to stop looking for hazards once the initial assessment is done, and in the worst case, simply write something down for the sake of having something written down. That seems somewhat counterproductive to me. But, that keeps safety busy, so they're happy.
I've worked using that flra system also. We had to write down every possible step in a task, then identify every possible hazard and then state every precaution we would do to eliminate the hazards. This went from the trivial to major hazards and we had to write these out for every job we did. Sometimes we did 3 or 4 different jobs a day and had to fill out an flra each time. Each guy on the crew and the supervisor/foreman had to sign it. It was randomly checked by safety guys from each contractor, the engineering co. and the client and their union safety committee. You better have one made out for the crew with your signature on it and know who had it and where it was. Anybody else who wanted to work in your work area had to sign it too. If there was any kind of incident or safety violation, real or imaginary they grabbed them and used them to hang you with it. They were collected and filed at the end of the shift. Sucked big time, made you want to quit. Spent as much time filling these out as we did working some days. Worse part was none of these safety guys they hired had a clue what is necessary to do a construction project, they all seemed to come from some safety fantasy world. If they get any worse I don't know how they will ever get anything built.
I can see where this could go both ways. It could make a job site much safer but could also me used as a means of IDing and getting rid of "complainers" who are always filing these reports. Most of my adult work experience is US Army so I have seen a lot of ladder climbers who will back stab in a heartbeat and supervisors who would look at the person filing the report as a trouble maker. I can also see where all the darn paper work would get in the way of getting a job done in a reasonable manner. I can also see a company using these reports to try to minimize their responsibility shold an accident occure. I'm not a big fan of unions but this is one place were this should be brought to the attention of union officials. Rick
And you still don't have an answer to the question at hand. Does that mean "No", that no one has been harmed? I'm thinking if someone had, they would have chimed in. But the discrepancy I do see here is that there are many different types of reporting on the same system. So just because no one else has had career harm, does not mean that your multi-national safety bean counters will respond the same way.
"Near Miss" reporting is big in the oil fields. Makes for topics in the daily "tool box" or safety meetings Sometimes those meetings sound entirely too sincere in their message and communications. I find this syrupy sincerity to be sickenly sweet.
Sounds to me like there is a lot of crazy stuff going on by people justifying their job.. Stupid stuff just makes people blase about it all.
No its not, these people have no problem justifying their job when we all go home to our families the way we came to work. I think of it this way. As a young man I leaned lots of things the hard way. By watching myself and other employees get hurt. What if as a greenhorn someone gave you all the hazards associated with a task gathered from years experience. Kind of like your parents telling don't touch the oven you'll get burned as a kid. There are those that will learn the hard way still. You don't have to dream anything up. I bet all of us do this all day long subconsciously and just don't realize it. All I do is pick those things out and write them down. I wish I didn't have to do it, but I do they pay me too. Maybe one day it will save someones life...