So friday I started a new job strippin top dirt off a field, about 14" thick with about a 200' push, since its a pretty good push I figured id slot doze it, then just clean up in between my channels aft. My boss stops by about 10 to fuel me up, he says I should just do it the "conventional" wey I guess and just keep hittin your furrows, he's the boss so I did it his wey, bt all day I kept thinkin it was the wrong wey. I need some veteran dozer op advice.. btw in a 700h deere
around here the pans would be hooked up to D8s and would do it at 18 to 20 yards a pop.
Conventional way?? I would say you are doing just fine unless he's getting paid by the hour and he wants it to last longer?With any kind of distance we slot doze.Thats a long push for 700 deere
Yes,you are right,it's only common sense really that there will be more dirt on the blade when you're in a slot.Show the boss the little guy doing it that way in your owner's manual.
He is the one that signs your check right? Well I would do it his way, but of he is the kind of guy that open to new ideas. Tell him if he gets online and search "front to back dozing" he will find plenty of information on it and that it is the conventional way of moving dirt.
DeereFan I agree with you slot dozeing is way more efficent, but I have worked with people who think a neat slicked up job site is more important than efficency. They are usualy the people who have worked for big road construction companys I know 3 guys that are that way, all are owner opperators and all have worked for McAninch. They are all first rate opperators but I think they were trained to keep there crumbs cleaned up and have never done anything diffirent.
You mean that big company that went bankrupt? Cleaning up as you go is a good idea, but only after the work is done or you expect rain. You are correct on wanting to slot doze the material however you should ask your boss WHY he wants it done the other way. Maybe he's got a reason or maybe he just doesn't know how slot dozing works. Explain it to him and if he still wants it done his way then well...do it his way. He's the boss even if he is wrong. 200' is still within optimal push distance however when you say "slot doze" are you talking about the proper front to back method or are you just pushing from the back over the same spot (incorrect)? Remember to leave your slot fairly dirty when you're cutting otherwise you'll end up with way to many browns in your pile when you go to clean up. Another trick to make the pile look nice at the end is to try to stuff the browns under the pile. If you set your pile up just right while stripping you can get the top to collapse over the last bit you tuck on the bottom painting it dark black and making it look great. Slot dozing explained: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9cxaCyc31M Slot dozing stripping with a D10R: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPON60WxIk4
yea slot dozin the proper wey startin close to your pile and workin back (thanks to you actually, im lambejr1on the tube) ne wey yea I've asked him bout it on the site his big answer is I've be doin this for 25 years you don't think ik what im doin, he's been finish cat op. All his life (fam biz) bt when he left I thought for a bit then figured *** ill just slot doze it, and in the end he thought I did it his wey so it all worked out good, thanks for the vid on slot dozin!
Oh. You again? Sheesh can't get rid of you guys. You should show him the videos sometime, although those guys who "have been doing it all their lives" generally think they are always right even if they have been doing it wrong the whole time. We have a friend who's a John Deere rep and he said he actually uses that D8 video all the time to show his customers. Here's some good links to show him: http://www.komatsu.com/ce/support/v09202/index.html http://www.buyerzone.com/construction-equipment/bulldozers/ar-caterpillar-dozer/ http://www.coalnews.net/view.php?id=67 <-- last 3 paragraphs http://www.newearthmovers.com.au/Article/Dozer-operating-tips/70
Haha, yea man I think I speak for everyone when I say the vids are extremely professional, im only 19, only been operating for about 6 months, that vids are a great help, especially when it comes to getting good production out of a machine, or even an entire site. Only one suggestion, you an burnout need to have a good ol'fashioned company truck pull off...
Your on the right track,I teach all my guys its about effiency no matter what! bid job or by the hour.You want to move as much dirt as possible in the shortest amount of time.You ofcourse have to keep in mind the weather like Vantage-Tes says and clean up as you go.You can also slot doze one or two slots at a time if weather looks bad and clean up windrows as you go.It does not take to much extra time.This is maybe what your boss is worried about or sometimes if in a high traffic area I like the guys to clean up by end of day so its pleasing to the eye for all the tourist going by.Rember most people think a job pleasing to the eye is a good job!People reguardless of what they know about dirt,if it looks good its to them the contractor must know what he's doing.
Thats basically what I did, id do about 4 to 5 slots then go back and clean up. My boss def. Likes everything looking pretty tho, if u scrath up a weight on a hoe, repainting it comes straight from your check, bucketd and carriers usually get re-shot every year. And sprayin trucks is a NO NO! once anything hits about 3500 it usually gets traded off, unless it barely gets run.
Well he must have lots of money if he can trade in at 3500 hrs but what the heck power to him.He's right about the counter weights Im the same way,I could never figure out why the counter weight gets scratched when there's a stick and boom capable of moving debris 20ft away?My guys don't wanna see me if the weights get scuffed,not a good scene.Anyhow I think your on the right track I'm sure your boss will be happy with your efforts.
LOL those cartoons are my favourite part
Glad it worked out in the end for you but if I were you I would listen to him and do things the way he asks you too. He is giving you a great opportunity here and trying to teach you. If he came back before you were finished and seen you had ignored what he had to say he would not be very happy. And if you repeatedly ignore what he tells you, you won't be on that dozer long and you won't have a very good reference to go somewhere else with. I am quite sure he is aware of the proper method of slot dozing to bulk material but when you are stripping you are not exactly bulking most of the time. His logic I am guessing is if you leave it dirty enough that you are not grabbing browns (especially being you are new) that is is a very shallow slot. How much good is that little slot really doing for you? Probably not enough to justify the extra browns that you will likely end up with.....a seasoned vet, maybe it would be worth it. But you are not a seasoned vet yet. You will in time absolutely surpass your teacher, every generation gets a little better than the last. But first you have to learn what he knows. You don't have to spend your whole career learning what he has in 25 years of trial and error.. He can sum it up and teach the bulk of it to you in a very short time comparably if you pay attention and do as he says. And then the longer you work together the more his confidence in you will grow and he will give you more freedom to add your own style and methods to grow upon the knowledge he passed down to you. Then you will become a seasoned, well respected vet long before your time.
I gotta say it is awesome runnin pretty much brand new equipment, don't ever have to work on it except regular maintenance, and I had to laugh yesterday when a random truck driver loaded figured he'd load himself, after he put a nice 2" scrath across the counterweight on a brand new 160d, the bossman was NOT happy with that man.
I agree with you mostly, but the bossman actually wanted me to mix some browns with the TD, it is great to have a boss like him, that's amazing on every machine and is more than willing to teach me the tricks on the the equipment. I kinda feel guilty actually because next summer I will most likely go to union school, so I can get a union op job, hopefully with michels. Gotta go were the money is uno
It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. And from the way you talk about your boss I am sure he will let you try things your way if you can give him a good reason why you are wanting to. Just always remember the one who pays you has the final say so on how to do things. I am willing to bet though that if he starts paying attention to you he will learn some better ways to do some things from you. I know one of my sayings that holds true to almost everything is. ''Experience is not everything because you can do something the same wrong way your whole life or you can educate yourself and do it right the first time.''
I agree with your saying 100%, to be honest I've known my boss my whole life, he dosent usually act like a typical boss uno. We usually discuss things, he doesent just shout orders. I dnt try to tlk like I no everything, and us discussing jobs usually teaches me alot. My boss treats me more as a son then an employee, its great
Watch my video, nothing but nice black dirt. If you have 14" then you take 10" when slot dozing and take the rest at the end so you can control how much browns you are taking. "Slot" dozing is more to do with back to front dozing then the actual slot. Dozing from the back is a huge waste of time and power as you are trying to load your blade up hill instead of down, packing down the area you have to cut, wasting time backing up, prematurely wearing out your under carriage and moving the dirt further than you have to. Also you'd be surprised how fast you can build a slot with your windrows, even moving a 8" of cut. There's a reason every manufacturer recommends it, and they've been doing it much longer than anyone else. If you still doubt this method I'll upload another view of the same stripping operation where you can see how it's very easy to avoid taking browns while slot dozing, and how big of a slot you can build quickly with around a foot of top soil.
Right on deerefan! With that attitude you will learn fast and go a long ways. Hope you keep us updated with how things go. Vantage. Carefully read my posts again. I in no way discredited slot dozing. It is almost always the proper way of doing it. And I am well aware of how to properly do it. I simply rationalized what I though could be his bosses logic in asking him to do the way he did. Think about it. Four inches for a seasoned finish operator is lots of padding. But for some one just learning, not so much. How many pushes before that four inches is gone? How easy is it to gouge four inches out with one little mistake or if you start to get a wave in your cut....heck even spin the tracks a little bit and you are through it in a heart beat. Do you think it is a consistent 14 inches all the way across the cut? I very much doubt it. Some places there will be more and some places less. One thing for sure is there is no one single perfect method that works in every situation or for every operator.
If you're going to gouge then you will do it dozing back to front too. Only difference is one method is efficient and one is not, especially on a long push. And I believe the bit where you said you'd never get a slot with a small cut, and how stripping is not what slot dozing is meant for is where you are incorrect. Speculating what his boss may think has little bearing on if you are being grossly inefficient or not. As an operator your job is to use the most efficient safe method. As an employee your job is to do what your boss tells you. If you don't agree you should talk to him about why he wants it done a certain way, or if you could try doing it another way. If he still wants it done his way, do it his way.
I can see both brian and jasons points, obviously you both are operators. Now brian I by no means up to the skill of my boss and alot of other great operators although I have a great teacher, and great help from you guys, im not an arrogant person at all, but to be honest whatver my boss asks me to do I can do it (other wise I woudl be in this cat) whether its strippin 3' of material or finish work, so to be honest 4" really is nothing. Also just so everyone knows, the bossman wanted to mix a little browns with the TD so that wasn't an issue, getting down to sub grade was main issue. My mind just told me slot dozin would be most efficient. Jason is correct the boss is always riight but at the end of the wey you do something different and can justify it to him, and it makes the company more profitable, I will always do it. Thanks guys for the help, really appreciate it, especially from jason and alex. Those guys are pros and I've learned alot from them. gota new cam. Gonna try to get some pics and maybe of vid of my work Hammer down!
You completely missed the point of what I was trying to convey again Vantage. Of course if you are going to gouge it will happen no matter what. His boss obviously wasn't looking for high production in this situation. Doing it the way he asked him to would leave room for him to gouge if he did(not saying that you would Deerefan). Slot dozing would not leave him any room for mistakes. Also never said you couldn't get a slot going in a small cut. I said the the potential for the extra browns that could come from a green operator trying to slot doze in a small cut could out weigh what you gain from it....we didn't know he was allowed to take some browns at that point. Then I went on to say that it could work for a seasoned vet. Speculating what his boss may think has LARGE bearing on if you are being grossly inefficient or not. From what he tells us this is a top shelf operator he is working for. If anything he asks you to do does not make sense to you then think it through very carefully. If you can't figure out the logic behind it then ask him to explain it to you because he probably has very good reason for it and will be happy to fill you in if you ask him. I know myself even today after two decades of moving dirt, once in a while I will find myself scratching my head thinking why are we doing this, it makes no sense. I certainly do not know everything and never will, but I will never stop trying to learn everything. So I approach it with an open mind and if I can't figure out why I ask. Sometimes I learn something new, other times I just go back to work and do as I am asked. But I never dismiss anything anyone says be it the boss, a junior or a senior operator without first gathering all the info I can and thoroughly thinking it through.
My boss is definetly top shelf, alota guys around here brag themselves up, and most are great operators.. on one machine, my boss is the only guy I've seen that can jump from machine to machine, and do perfect work. I have alot of respect for him. This brings me to my question, this is the first time this has happnd were I didn't do exactly as I asked I just couldn't bring myself to do it his wey when I new there was a better one. Which is why I asked the pros on HEF, to make sure I wasn't being an idiot.