Although I was raised on a farm and have been operating machinery since childhood, I've got a problem here that's a bit embarrassing, so please go easy on an old overseas vet... When we had our new Erskine Hydraulic Snow Blower delivered to us from our area CASE dealer, the guy from the dealership wanted to do the right thing by giving us a run through...but there were problems right from the get go in the form of not being able to connect the high pressure and the return lines to the couplers on our CASE SV340. After turning the machine off and letting is sit for a while, the guy eventually forced the lines together and gave us a demonstration. As I always remembered how much trouble the CASE rep had attaching our snow blower to our machine, I have made it a habit to let the machine sit overnight before even attempting the connection...but today, for some odd reason, this "trick" isn't working. When I watch YT videos made by guys having similar issues -- usually with grapple attachments -- a sun/heat pressure increase is usually to blame, but it's just above freezing here, so, needless to say, that's not the problem. In the past, we used a hammer on the "poppet" in the coupler(s) to relieve oil pressure, but this is our first hydraulic attachment with flat face couplers, so I'm at a bit of a loss here. I suppose that I could always start taking the couplers apart, but the attachment is only a couple of years old and the couplers look nearly perfect, so, at the moment, I'm telling myself that someone out there has found a way to solve this problem. Thank you kindly for your time...
If the newer style quick couplers, just take a gloved hand and smack them with the ball of your hand or push firmly where you would insert the male fitting. They are made to relieve the pressure internally. I have to do that with each new skid steer I deliver before an attachment will connect.
I'm also embarrassed to admit that we've tried hammering the end of a blunt ratchet extension into the faces of both the male and the female faces to no avail. As the lines that came on our Erskine snowblower a straight lines [no elbows], the lines are very difficult to deal with. This is a high-flow attachment, so the lines and the couplers are fairly large and very difficult to hold in place while trying any kind of quick solution. Thus far, we've had no joy with anything we've tried.
Make it easy on yourself and crack loose a hose fitting. That will relieve any pressure. Don't hammer on your fittings as you are likely to make an expensive mistake. It is easy to clean up the little bit of oil that will come out.
After you have cracked the lines, it should connect up. Whenever you unhook the attachment hyd lines next time (and on any hyd attachment), push in on the connection at the machine before you disconnect the lines from the machine. That will allow the machine to depressurize the lines and you shouldn't have that issue again.
Okay, so perhaps it's time to crack some coupler lines...I'm not sure about how common this is, but every flat-face coupler on the machine and the snowblower seems to require a different size wrench...and probably more than we have. We own a pretty nice set of large crow's feet wrenches. Does anyone here use them for this type of work?
All you need to do is crack the line at the snowblower end of the first quick connect you are putting on. That depressurizes that coupler and once you plug onto that, it will also release the pressure from the other hose coming from the snowblower. Pick the fitting that is easiest to get at with a regular wrench.
What skyking1 said. Couple of crescent wrenches and crack the line. Takes all but a few secs.
As the machine in question is still under warranty, we're trying to learn as much as we can about these flat-face couplers, which are totally new to us, before we proceed... Thanks to the folks who wrote productive posts.
In the same vein as this issue... Has anyone seen a hydraulic fitting with a bleeder like used on brake calipers? Seems a simple solution to pressurized attachments. A single wrench and rag would suffice.
Sometimes machines have a way to bleed pressure off. Maybe with the key on and machine not running toggle hydraulic controls so the valves open. I would think that new of a machine would have the push in pressure relief on the fittings. If it has both the low flow and high flow couplers try pushing in on the smaller coupling as they are hooked together.
Interesting, I would not be happy if I had to crack the lines every time. I would assume their has to be a way to relieve the pressure dead heading at those ports.
IF you do things in the right order it is usually not necessary. All you have to do to make it a tough time is do that one thing wrong, LOL. I have found that each machine is subjective in that regard. It takes time to figure out what works every time
The new CASE SV340B that we have has more electrical crap in it than I prefer, but we needed a new machine, so we'll have to learn to live with the electronics. The only thing that I've found in the controls that seems to relieve pressure is the trigger switch on the left joy stick. When I want to lower the hydraulic snow blower slowly, I pulled that trigger switch and the implement gradually drops to the surface we're working on. Other than that, I haven't been able to find a way to release hydraulic pressure -- and we've tried numerous suggestions.
Put a tee in the lines and add a valve on it that is designed to withstand the pressure. IMHO of course. This is what I had in mind. LINK
Video of that machine shows it has the same push in hydraulic couplers as everyone else. I always try to push them in before I unhook an attachment so it has the pressure relieved on it to. I'm guessing you have 5 couplers total, two high flow, two regular flow and a case relief fitting?
There is another type of couplers that screw together even with pressure in the lines, just can't remember the brand name. You'd have to buy in pairs though. Fellas running forestry mulchers love them.
The 3 way valve on that page would eliminate the need for a tee. Thanks for the idea.
If do what is posted this will not happen. The MACHINE IS EQUIPPED WITH PRESSURE REDUCING PORTS. Push in on them with the hyd lines still hooked to the machine and it relives the pressure. It is simple. Cracking the lines is very simple, but if you do the above this will not happen again. This has nothing to do with warranty. However, you should probably read the owner's manual.
KSSS I can say my machines do NOT have any pressure reduction ports except a control valve movement with engine off. Also, a temperature change will build pressure in the one hydraulic grapple attachment (flat face QC) I have when disconnected. Then cracking the fitting is the only way I know of getting it connected to the tractor hydraulics. Old tractors are like that...
Post a pick of the hyd couplers on the machine. If you have 340, you have the ports. Comes on all of them since 2011. If you push up against the coupler you will see that it will push in about an inch or so, that is what depressurizes the line. There is no button you can push on the machine. It is the collapsing of the coupler that depressurizes it. Trust me.
This side has a Faster casting and couplings that have pressure relief designed into them. The other side, however, does not have the same setup...which is why I put a like under Tinkerer's post about the 3-way relief valve. When I finally got a chance to see an old friend of mine of today -- a bona fide old school diesel mechanic and tractor puller -- he made exactly the same suggestion...and, when I write "exactly," I mean he even gave me a Surplus Center part number right out of his paper catalog. We were able to get by, this time around, by cracking the lines on the snowblower, but I won't be coming back to the same issue if I can help it. In my mind, the 3-way valve suggestion is a real winner. By the way, if you live in a cold climate like we do here in the mountains -- and you can't get the collars on your couplings to make that final "click" indicating a positive lock -- get a propane torch out and heat the ends up. That's what ended up getting us over the final hurdle today.
Yes the torch on the coupler is method I sent you in the email. What other side are you referring to? Both male and female sides collapse. The high flow side, if you have it, does not collapse, however hitting the pressure release on the low side (male and female) removes the pressure on the high flow side as well.
I think that I wrote about this before, but we tried numerous methods of pressure relief, including pushing on the Faster couplings depicted in Post 22, but still couldn't get our snowblower hooked up for operation. The major part of the problem was finally solved after we got our hands on the proper tools and cracked the lines on the snowblower side of the circuit. As pushing on the couplings shown in the photo really had no effect on our actual problem, I can't say one way or the other if pushing on the couplings in the Faster casting will relieve pressure on the other side. I can say this, however, pushing on those couplings -- the ones that we use to power our snowblower -- will not make them move. Admittedly, I'm no hydraulic coupling master, but our machine came equipped with both high flow and enhanced high-flow hydraulic circuits. Our machine hooks up to the aluminum "block" on the left side of the machine, as you face the door, which is what I meant when I used the phrase "...the other side" in my last post (and in this post).
Once the pressure is already in the line. You may have to crack the fitting to relieve the pressure, however if you push in the pressure release BEFORE you uncouple it, you wont have that issue again. Are you hooking up to high flow or regular aux. flow? Can you take a picture of the front of the machine so I can see both aux. hyd couplers.
As shown, just below, this is the coupling "block" that we [finally] have the pressure and return lines coming from our snowblower coupled to... In the next shot (below), you can see the front of the machine in question. If you look to the right side of the cab, adjacent to the door handle, you will see the Faster FFH casting that is shown in much more detail in Post No. 22. Although I remain hopeful that full system pressure relief can be obtained by pushing on the empty couplers in the Faster FFH casting, I can tell you that pushing on the couplers in what I'm calling the "coupling block" (on the left side of the cab) will give you nothing but a sore shoulder.
Yours is the enhanced high flow version as you stated, but I wanted to see the other valve block to be sure. I checked this out from those that know, use the regular aux pressure release to clear the pressure on the enhanced side. The key is to clear it right away after use. Looks like you got the half inch Lexan door with the enhanced flow high flow. I would not use the enhanced high flow side on the blower unless it is made to take the 4K psi. There is a switch inside to switch from high flow to high pressure, I would keep it on the high flows side for the blower. If you mulch with it, then switch to high pressure.
I keep a pair of wrenches in my skid steer to counter this problem, it happens often with attachments removed cold and then seeing a rise in temperature, the expansion of the fluid internally within the attachment builds pressure on the connector.. Crack the line, bleed off the pressure and problem solved.
By the way, I've tried the couplers that are supposed to somehow bleed off the pressure but have never had them work much better. You might get a couple psi out of them but nothing significant. Either brute force or bleeding them off has been the only solution.
An open question to the HEF brain trust ... How much pressure prevents connecting? Would a small air-filled accumulator absorb the volume created by temperature change. I'm thinking of a vertical tube section like a plumber uses for water hammer. (Hydraulic pressure rated of course) I could easily install such on my grapple. My alternative is to install a tee in the line of the grapple. A ORFS cap would be used to relieve pressure.
The high flow couplers can be a burger to hook. I've battled them on a high flow brush hog and wondered if I was ever going to get them hooked. The older I get the harder they are.
have any of you guys tried plugging the 2 attachment hoses together after removing attachment from loader? Might help not to buildup pressure
amen to that. The hand strength and position problems don't mellow with age. I used to just hook stuff up and now I am plotting for the best angles to give me the best personal power. Next week I am building a step I can bolt onto the tilt trailer right below where I climb out of the excavator. I launched off there Tuesday after falling on the ice Monday morning, and it did not end so well.
Thats exactly what has worked for me. It doesn't take much heat to make it work.
Seems like it could have some merit. I wonder if you had a spare set of short hose whips with quick connectors on one end, but free open hose ends. Plug them in directly to attachment immediately when disconnecting the tool. This would bleed off any excess pressure that could build from idle attachments and temperature changes. Shouldn't have to leave them connected. Just a quick plug in and remove. Just an idea.
Before we gathered the tools to crack the lines on the snowblower side of the circuit, I contacted Stucchi USA and spoke to them about a flat face casting/block that has a pressure relief valve built into it. A friend of ours in NY state, with lots of snow-blowing experience, sent me this photo, after I described the issue to him in an email...which prompted me to contact Stucchi USA. Although this looks like a very promising solution to residual pressure buildup issues, it also looks very expensive...and, thinking out loud, I assume that it's far more expensive than the 3-way valve solution first mentioned in this thread by Tinkerer. Regardless, the fellow I spoke with at Stucchi USA did not push the Saturn casting (shown in the photo above) and, instead, made mention of an alternative that they've come up with. Now that the big snowblower is hooked up, I believe that I'll make another call to Stucchi and get some clarity on what they suggest for the future. I'll get back to the thread when I know more.
Need a way to dump pressure on Machine and Attachment sides, BOTH sides to accomplish what you seek to do. A Bleed screw/fitting on the Attachment and a dump valve across the ports as above would be the easiest and simplest but as you note not a Cheap fix. BTW AG loaders with Quick Attach to Tractor do exactly the same, many times end up with both tractor and loader circuits jacked tight and have to shut off tractor cycle control(Manual) then 'Pop' all the fittings on the loader to get a connection.
DMiller describes my issue to a tee. I've a hay grapple on an Ag tractor using flat face couplers as on a skidsteer. No problem relieving the pressure on the tractor. (as DMiller describes) It's the grapple building pressure that prevents coupling.
these attachments have a pocket of air in there somewhere for them to build pressure with temperature changes. Oil does not expand and contract to build the pressure, that bubble of air at the top of the cylinder, line, etc it does the work. It is entirely possible that those who have good luck also have completely purged attachments.
Actually the formulations for hydraulic oils in the last forty years do indeed expand and contract. Check the level in the reservoir of any hydraulic system on an cold morning and then check it again at the end of a day of steady work. I've seen plenty of forty gallon reservoirs where hot oil is more than an inch higher at the end of the day. What oil doesn't do is compress. A couple of percent of expansion inside a system bearing on a couple of square inches of surface area might put forty or more pounds of pressure against the oil side of the coupler.
Hydraulics on AG equipment generally self purges over time, there is so little air to enter when popping or reconnecting these fittings doubt there is as much as a pinhead of air. Hyd Tank on renters unit used here is Full just above add mark Cold, and OVER Full line when the least bit warmed.
Has anyone heard of Waite's Decompression Tool ? It looks really neat and not tooo expensive. It can be purchased HERE. It has several options available for the size you need.
I toggle my NH skid axillary hydraulics with the engine off and the key on every time I disconnect an attachment. I have had no pressure issues since I started doing this a few years ago. I release the pressure on the drives and loader the same way when I shut it down.
You seem to be on the same exact wavelength as I'm on, Tinkerer, because I made contact with a guy who sells these tools via YT. All I would need to go further with this is figure out which tool would work with our plumbing.
I did all manner of things before borrowing the tools required to crack our lines, Old Iron, including playing with every switch I could think of in the machine. Key on, key off...it just didn't seem to effect the circuit I was working on. Regardless, now that we have the big snowblower attached, I'll try some things after we use it next. It's supposed to snow here in the mountains tonight, so I just might get my chance to try some of these suggestions -- with the snowblower in the loop this time -- sometime tomorrow.
Yes, before you buy anything, at least check to see if you have an issue by correctly unhooking the attachment. As soon as you shut the machine off, compress the aux. pressure release couplers. It should depressurize the Enhanced high flow side. I would then try to reattach the couplers and see how it works.
Once the pressure is left in the line, and the line uncoupled, there is nothing you can do at that point, other than crack the line to release the pressure. The key is to release the pressure prior to removing the line from the machine.
Looks like the couplers he is hooking to are add on and don't have the pressure relief. I'm not familiar with the case machine, are these on a completely different circuit than the other couplers? I also don't see any standard flow couplers like are on other machines.
They are on a different circuit but still cleared by collapsing the regular aux. circuit couplers, which do plunge in to clear the pressure.
Tinkerer.... I checked out the link you so kindly gave me in Post 44 -- thank you. If you activate the link, you'll see that there are three different size Waite Tools available for flat face hydraulic couplings: 3/8, 1/2 & 3/4. As I don't pretend to be any kind of flat face coupling expert -- in fact, this is my first real in-depth experience with the things -- I'd like to get your thoughts on how to determine the correct size tool for the job at hand? I suspect that it's all about the size of the plumbing [hydraulic line] itself, but, as I just wrote, I'm no expert. Thank you kindly for your help ~ HL
Without being there in person I can only give you an online and downloadable guide that is very handy for determining what you have. Follow the printing instructions that are on the silhouette page. If you can do that, simply hold the printed page under the fittings. Here is the LINK to the guide. If that doesn't work for you it would maybe be easier to remove the fittings and take them somewhere that makes hydraulic hoses. The image below shows the printing instructions.
DP PLATE SERIES - Stucchi USA I switched to the muitli coupler plates 8 years ago. problem solved. its to bad that the industry is stuck on the crap flat face connectors. They will conect with up to 3600psi line press.
What happened to beating the tip on something
His enhanced high flow package runs at 4K psi.
Working pressure range up to 5075psi. They will still connect and disconect at 3600psi.
Like your DP Plate Series, the Stucchi USA Saturn Series depicted in Post 36 is also designed around flat face residual pressure issues. If manufacturers like CASE are going to employ flat face couplers, which, I have to admit, do make far less mess, they really should've consulted with Stucchi before signing the contract with Faster. I realize that some of the couplings on our SV340B are supposed to relive pressure throughout the hydraulic system, but having a big red knob/handle seems a lot more intuitive to this old vet.
TINKERER..... As the sizing chart (below) will indicate, we seem to have 5/8 size flat face couplings on our machine. As our luck would have it, Waite seems to have "skipped over" the 5/8 size flat face couplings. I walked out into the ice and snow with our Mitutoyo digital caliper and measured the male end of the Faster FFH10 coupling hanging on our big snowblower and, yep, the OD was indeed just over 1.061 inches, which is damn near exactly 27 mm. Once again, it looks like we're looking for a way to relieve residual pressure year 'round without breaking the bank. I'd love to buy and install that Saturn Series casting from Stucchi USA, but they don't come cheap. In case anyone with an SV340B wants to look into the Stucchi USA casting shown in Post 36, the model is Saturn Block 15 (5/8" Body) and the order number is 808 800 103....and, if you do install one, please let me know how it works out for you.
Handlogger ... I would suggest a tee in a line. Put a ORFS fitting with a cap in the tee. Loosen the cap with a rag to catch the oil. Issue is the tee to fit on the attachment, then a small ORFS fitting & cap ... If the hose on the attachment is NPT, you're golden and the cost will be around $20
Thanks a lot for the suggestion, hosspuller , but all of our plumbing is SAE. If I don't hear back from the Stucchi USA rep that's supposed to be reaching out to us, I'm going to pull the trigger on the high pressure 3-way valve suggested by both Tinkerer and our mechanic (on the very same day).
How about a tee with one of these: https://s3.amazonaws.com/onehydraulicsdata/DATASHEETS/SBLV.pdf
Is it the attachment or machine that's causing the problem?
In practice, that seems like the same idea as the 3-way valve first suggested in this thread by Tinkerer . I'll look into the various parts one would need for this and do the math. If it proves to be cheaper, I don't see why not. Thanks for the suggestion. By the way, I've been employing the pressure relief suggestion that was mentioned a few times in this thread and, thus far, it seems to be working out. In short, I've been shutting the machine down, waiting about 5 minutes, pressing on the male and the female Faster FFH08 couplings on the [unused] high pressure side of our machine and -- after they can be easily pushed inward -- I remove the FFH10 snowblower couplings from the high flow side of the machine. Needless to say, this doesn't take care of residual pressure buildup that can occur with temperature fluctuations, so I'm definitely still looking for a permanent solution.
The original problem was an inability to connect to the high flow "block" on the left side of the machine, which is clearly shown in Post 26 of this thread. Long story a bit shorter, the FFH10 couplings on the snowblower [attachment] side of the circuit were eventually loosened to relieve residual pressure buildup and, as also shown in Post 26, the snowblower was finally connected to the machine. The subsequent discussion has revolved around options to permanently fix and/or relieve residual pressure on the attachment side of the circuit. Needless to say, the Stucchi USA casting shown in Post 36 of this thread is a great [and quick] way to relieve pressure in a closed circuit, but it's also a very expensive way to go about this...and, besides, it still doesn't help with residual pressure that builds up in the attachment side during temperature changes. Anyway, that's what we've been discussing here.
Good to hear the pressure clearing procedure on the machine is working as designed. I doubt being it is a snow blower you will see any significant pressure increases due to temp changes. Cold temps are not going to increase the pressure on the unconnected hoses. You could store the hyd lines out of the sun (down the down spout on the blower would work perhaps) just to be sure, but I doubt you would see temps rise enough that it would heat up to the point it would create a problem.
I have this happen on my jackhammer when it's unhooked some. I crack a line on it. It seems if you can release all the pressure with the couplers before unhooking it isn't as bad. Same with my thumb on the excavator when I switch back to it. Any weight on the thumb cylinder and they won't couple. These are the small couplers so not as bad. Someone pushing or pulling on the blades on the snowblower while coupling may relieve each hose enough to help couple. I apologize if any of this is a repeat of something I put on earlier, I didn't look.