I don't know much about a crane, but I'm looking for something affordable and small and mobile, my shop is narrow, only 30 feet wide and I need something to get in along side a piece of equipment and lift with it, a telehanlder won't work, we've tried that, neither will a gantry crane, my shop walls are not straight. I've talked to a few people that use mobile cranes, like a drott 3330 and they love it for what they use it for. I don't know anything about them, does anyone have advice of what to look for on a used one, brands to look for, sizes, who sells and services them, good points and bad points, where to even start. I don't have a crane of my service truck not sure I want one on it either, looking for more lift and reach than most service truck cranes have as well. I was thinking in that 20-30 ft of reach, and close up be able to pickup up 4-6 ton. Thanks for any information ahead of time.
Randy, unless you're lifting straight up like a gantry crane would do, you need to understand that cranes have a diminishing load rating the farther the load is from the center of the slew ring (the main pivot point where the boom meets the chassis). So a non-gantry crane that can handle 6 ton will only handle a fraction of that load at 30 ft of reach. The way to think about it is in 'foot pounds'. A 1000 pound load one foot away from the radius center (horizontal pivot point) puts a 1000 foot pound load on the crane. Take that same load out to 30 feet and you're looking at 30,000 ft lbs. If you can determine the types of loads at given distances, otherwise referred to as the 'radius', it will help in the decision process and the type/rating of the crane you're looking for. It sounds like a knuckleboom crane may fit your needs as unlike regular boom cranes you don't need to go up in height to increase the radius you can go straight out, and your boom can have multiple extensions allowing you versitility in boom length. So a good question is "How much weight do you want to lift at 30 feet?"
Shenandoah, Yes I do understand the diminishing lift capacities, they are the same principle as with an excavator or anything else. What I'm wanting to do it, use it as an extra hand in the shop, I don't need the full 30 foot of length, but at the same time if I ever would, there's no need to buy one with only a 15 foot of reach either. My shop has a loft in it, and we're finding out, it would be nice to be able to pick stuff up and carry or lift it out, at 30 foot, I'd guess maybe 1000 lbs. A gantry or bridge crane would be ideal, but with an older building remodel project for my shop, its not how it ended up being, we had to put knee braces from the walls to the ceiling to reinforce the walls, not what was in the plan from the start, so my crane plan/dream ended on that day, nows it plan B, something portable and yet, small enough to drive along side what we're working on in the shop. Most of my stuff, isn't heavy to do, just more than I can lift, right now we have a dozer tore apart, and it would be nice to have something hold up the track press on the backside of the dozer, help lay the track out after splitting it, help lift the transmission out, take the rops off, things like that. But at the same token, it would be great to be able to drive up to something and have the capability to lift a lot, like an entire engine out of a machine, but we'd be maybe right beside it, not 20 feet away from it. My original thought was bigger lift capacities than the average service truck crane, more compact than an entire service truck, not sure it that makes sense or not. I've also wanted something portable, that I could drive to my equipment around the yard to assist with, now we use an excavator or bucket cat, but those are generally not around when I need them, I first saw the drott 3330 and thought it would be great to have one similar in size but I don't know anything about a crane. Its not going to be a high use item, but when you need it you need it, was my thinking. I looked at the stickers with capacities on the drott, those said something like 1000 lbs at full extension with outriggers out, and maybe 10000 lbs close up, but don't quote me on that, I've looked at so much stuff, I'm now more confused than when I started. My original thought was to buy and use a telehandler with a jib boom on it, that fizzled pretty fast when I couldn't turn it in the shop and get into position to use it for anything.
Randy, years ago in my old shop I faced almost the identical needs you talk about albeit with a little less weight requirements than you have. What I settled on was two cranes. One was an A-Frame ganrty crane on steel wheels and track, and the other was a jib crane that had the capability of accessing the loft. The combination worked well, and coupled with a 2 ton cherry picker I could move or lift almost anything I dealt with. Now my needs are a bit different and a flatbed truck with a knuckleboom crane will be the solution. You know the old saying, "When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail", well, that sort of applies to the way my thinking goes about your needs. Only going by what you have laid out, I can see how the same type set-up would allow you to meet your goals, and allow for the versitility you'll need. Now granted, I actually know very little about your needs, but the description you provided is very similar to what my needs are and hence my thoughts. Now I may be in a completely different situation than you as I don't want my resources tied up in a dedicated crane such as a rough terrain or a carry deck, and I'll need the crane to go on the road with me. I want the crane to have a decent size lift capability close in and I want the reach. Same as you described. After a lot of research, I found a knuckleboom fits the requirements better than anything else. I'm not sure if any of my ramblings helps here, but as an old tongue loves to wag, I thought I'd throw that out. And my apologies if my writing style implied you may not have understood diminishing lift capacities. I have no doubt you understand the concept far better than I do.
A carry deck crane sounds like a good option .The Drott looks like a nice unit,dont know where you get parts for them anymore. www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9089373 We bought a digger- derrick truck few years ago with the Pitman "Polecat" boom .Truck also has toolboxes on it.Capacity at 4' is 9500 and at 23' 2000 lbs. Its pretty handy.
One of the customers I regularly spent time at when I worked for the Komatsu dealer was a Weyerhaeuser export yard. Their shop didn't have any cranes and they relied on two carry deck cranes. One was a smaller Drott and the other a much larger JLG. Those two units did 100% of the moderate lifting jobs for the shop. I pulled engines out of WA600 wheel loaders and PC400 log loaders. We picked hydraulic valves, axles and booms and log bunks and on and on with those two machines. Both machines had outriggers for stability and extension booms. Both also had manual transmissions like found in big fork lifts. No torque converters so nearly no over heating issues. You will have to have space between your walls and the subject machine to move around in but the back of the crane boom counterweight on those two machines was fixed to the boom and above the deck and we didn't have to worry about it hitting something when we swung around the radius. The only down sides that I saw with the machines was that you now had to have two people on a pick, the rigger and the crane operator. Maintenance was also a pain because the engine, running gear and hydraulics were in the bottom of the machines. Before you buy one get a hold of the load charts and physically measure the distances in your shop to where you are likely to pick from. Probably the biggest mistake I can see is getting a unit that won't pick what you need at the farthest radius. An overhead crane is probably the best thing for a shop but a carry deck gives you greater versatility in that you can set up your picks anywhere on the property.
Shenandoah, the gantry crane won't work, with my sloped walls and to get the height I want, I'll be in the center of my shop, now that causes two problems, first being I have a full length service pit, I want to straddle machines or trucks over in the first place, and any gantry would hit the walls and still not be centered over whatever I was working on, and the second is if I'd move the machine over towards the center of the shop, one side of the gantry would be in the center of the pit, neither is an option I'd like. The jib crane I'd have to secure in the cement, I just got the floor poured and it has infloor heat tubes in the concrete, not under it, I'm not about to drill anything in the floor, that and to reach where I'd want to towards the walls, I'd hit the sloped ceiling again long before I'd ever get to where I wanted to go, with a boom crane, I could alter the height as I got closer to the walls, or lower it as I extended it, with a permanent jib, the height of the arm never changes and it would limit the use I'd get out of any jib crane. As for a cherry picker, I just gave mine away, I never used it, in order to pick anything up, I had to have the legs under whatever I was trying to work on or lift,or my lift was so greatly diminished it couldn't pick anything up for weight, with tracked machines, I never could get any closer than the tracks, and it never worked worth a darn for anything, I finally gave it away it was just taking up shop space and never got used. My small skid steer was far handier than a cherry picker, I had a boom mounted on that would extend somewhat, but was still very limited on what it could pick up. I'm not sure if a mobile crane would do what I want done either, but dreaming about it, unless someone points out why it wouldn't, I still think is the best route to go, a telehandler was great in theory, but if I had to swing to side just a foot or two, I was done, either I had to drive straight over the pit and straddle that or beside it and my shops not wide enough to get swung around and into position to lift anything. Nobody is going to offend or upset me in any way by saying anything, all I'm looking for is someone with experience in using a mobile crane and tell me why what I want done won't work or why it should, I can't rent one locally to try out like I did with a telehandler to figure out what I was thinking to use that for wouldn't work. I thought with a mobile crane, I could drive it into position, boom out and up as needed, swing it into position as needed and lift what I'd need done, and swing it or extend or retract it and when done, pull up the outriggers and drive it to where ever I needed. Now that said, all I have is theory, no practical experience at all, none of how it works, what to look for, what goes wrong over time with them, how they swing, extend, retract, if they have a hand held remote or if you need two people to run it, one in the seat and another by what your lifting, what wears out for wear parts, what designs to avoid, what kind of crane to buy, so anythings good for information in my book, it would have to be far more than I have now.
Td and john c, thanks for the reply's, you were posting while I was typing, what are brands that you can get parts for yet today, if drott isn't the best to find parts for, I'd guess they are no longer in business. Also, what is there to go wrong with a mobile crane, someone told me the swing portion in the older one's were not a good design and leaked and wouldn't work, when I asked him to explain, I'll be honest I got lost in the translation, and the more questions I asked, the dumber I got, but he did mention, most stuff is under the more or less solid deck of steel and hard to get at from on top, or was that a totally wrong translation. That guy was also talking about what causes the boom to not extend or retract, and when they are to that point in life walk away from them and keep looking for a better one, isn't it like a telehandler boom more or less, with slide guides and cylinders that shove and retract the sections or how are they made?
For in and out of the building and general shop work I would look for a broderson IC-80. They've got outriggers and 360 deg rotation. Available diesel or gas/LP powered. If you're in the building a lot, with the heat on, (no doors open) propane is nice. Some have 4 wheel drive and 4 wheel steer but the one's I've run with just rear steer worked fine too and they are cheaper and simpler. They are stout little cranes for what they are. We used to mount and unmount the counterweight on a Grove tms 375 with one, and that's over 8,000lbs. They also make a IC -200 and 250's which are just a bit bigger in size length/ width, but gets a lot more chart. The only problem with the 200's is, the IC 80 you can find good ones under 10 grand, some around 5 grand, but the IC-200 usually bring over 20k. Which is fine if you're using it to bill someone, just a little expensive for a shop tool. I've run both, and if you were in the machinery moving business, or millwrighting in factories you could make the case for the bigger one, but for just shop use, they are too expensive in my book. I wouldn't be afraid to drive up beside a dozer and with the outriggers down, pull the motor. The crane is only 10' wide with the outriggers down, so thats 5' of radius plus 6-8' to the center of the dozer so say 14' max radius over the side, and they can handle 5500 lbs. I think you get around 30' of power boom and some have a jib. Have no experience with the Drott's, for some reason I think you can get parts through Case. I would stay away from the Grove ap 308- short boom and not much chart. If you can find one, the old grove IND 36 model carry decks are a pretty good rig. Like someone else said, the lack of remote, makes any work (like motor fitting) a two man project, but most of those are anyway. However, lots of times in the yard, I've run out picked up something, put it on the deck, and drove over and put it on the trailer. Downside of loading/ unloading a lot of stuff with a crane vs forklift is everything spins/ and needs rigged and unrigged.
What Drott equipment I've been around seems like it was pretty good equipment.If the 3330 carry deck was the rite price and condition I wouldn't be to afraid of it. Swing bearing/table seems to be the big cost on any used crane.The rest is pretty much like any other piece of equipment.If you want good parts support on a crane I would go with a Grove unit.If you dont have any kind of crane at this time I would consider looking for a small boom truck or setting up a crane on your service truck .There pretty handy and mobile for jobsite repairs and can still back them in the shop to work on equipment.
This is probably overkill 25 ton pick and carry on rubber and 35 ton on outriggers but grove does make them alot smaller other brand are bros, and shuttle lift I think thats the 3 main ones and just thought of the little excavator cranes with rubber tracks that might be even better in your space limits
Randy , That Drott sounds like A pretty handy machine . Around here they use Broderson carry decks . Real handy for working inside . Just some thought from my head . The boom and related parts would be tough to find if needed , cylinders and valves maybe be available from other than drott sources . Look at the boom for dents and dings , and repair welding . One concern I have would be that you would find places on the job that the machine would be perfect for . At the shop you and I know you are probably going to be fine but on the job the rules are different . Yearly inspections , record keeping , Nov 2014 the operator will have to be certified .
Danget I said bros meant broderson thanks Tiny...I think shuttle lift bought the drott carrydeck line..allso you might want to think about some of the propane fueled units if your going to be working it inside allot.
Thanks guys at least now I have some suggestions as to brands and things to look for, its only for my shop use, nothing osha or job related at all, yes I know about the crane certifications, I'm also thinking anyone with one on a service truck needs the certification even to get truck insurance I was told, not sure if its true or not. We'd considered a truck mounted unit, but I've got a shop built body, that's hot dipped galvanizing and I'd have to completely redo the bed to make it work on mine now, and to do it right, its not a small undertaking and not something I'd want to do, since my beds not that old and looks like new. I was hoping to find a mobile crane for about the same amount of money it would cost to redo my service body, maybe less than the retrofit would be. I usually do only general service work on the job, mainly servicing and greasing, anything major and the machine comes back to the shop anyhow.
For the situation you're describing, I second a vote for the Broderson IC-80.
Randy, I think you're right on target. Not knowing if you are familiar with knuckleboom cranes, here are two random videos off of YouTube that help to show thier capabilities and why I was thinking you may want to entertain exploring them. In the first video notice how the operator is using a radio remote to operate the crane, and also notice the weight being picked up indoors. Radio remotes are expensive options over lever controls, but they do allow you better vision of the load while working. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa2fAcmg9U4 This second video is just a wider angle of a truck/crane going through its' paces. (Skip the first half of the video to get to the part where the crane is being showcased. It's somebody's "buy this truck" video.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNaPjBU5FBA EDIT: Just saw your post above so consider this post as redundant education...
Ok, been looking at auctions photo's and some literature online on grove's and broderson, can you guys tell me why more would recommend the broderson over the grove or others, is it the size or function of how it works, easier to get parts for, more compact, what. I've never seen either in person, but when I go look, I'd like to know why one brand over the other was more popular or recommended. I understand the counterweight on the broderson, that was mentioned, also noticed there's a difference between the grove and broderson counterweights, and cable winch mount locations and most used brodersons sold had more reach on most sold units in the weight's I was thinking. How do you get at the components to service and fix, none appeared to have access covers to get at things under the deck other than the engine, can the stuff be accessed once over a service pit or is simple maintenance a complete disassembly of the machine just to change fluids and things, sorry for the completely stupid questions, but someone who's worked on one, would have opinions and knowledge of even the simple things.
Can anyone tell me what a "PAT LMI" is and what a "CRANEMASTER LMI" is and what they do, I"ve been looking at auctions and these are how they list specs on the crane.
LMI stands for Load Moment Indicator. Its an operator's aid. Should tell you hook radius, tip height, rated capacity at current setup, and weight on the boom. Also prevent two blocking.
Thanks for the explaination
LMI is Load Moment Indicator. It is used to get the precise information right into the operator's cab. It has following features: -Displays actual and allowable load, boom length, boom angle, and load radius. -In case of an impending two block condition, it alerts the operator. -Integrated light bar provides a quick reference of the crane’s utilization. -With the help of operator's console it is set up quickly and easily. -User-friendly console. It is also equipped with sensors that monitor cranes continuously and then displays error codes to recognize problems and lessen downtime.
Hello, this is Paul, handle is Pfeld1st. I bought an older crane Grove AP308. My mechanic is working on and and it runs pretty well but needs a TIRE. The tire spec is 10.00 15 with 16 ply. I have tried local truck tire dealers and they have up with some that don't fit and one guy says he might have one for $600.00. I'd rather get an older one and ship it for less. I can see that this forum allows photos, I will try to attached it in a later reply. Thanks in advance for your help, I am sure that I will have other problems once it starts working. It going to be used to pull out the 150 year old boiler in the basement and junk it for scrap. Then its up to the roof to repair the broken glass windows with fiberglass sheets. Again thanks for the help.
Photos of the one tire that I am looking for. thanks !! See attached.
Google used industrial tires on the internet, also I've seen some listed on ebay every once in a while, maybe someone else will chime in with some different idea's for you as well.
My latest searches show that I need a 10.00x15 16PR tube type deep mining tire. Prefer used and near zip code 01420, but i would put it on a pallet and ship it if it was the right situation. Not sure if I can find any trailer tire substitutes. the local truck tire guys were trying to do that and could not. So, I'm back out looking for that tire no. listed above, thanks, Paul
Try OTR wheel engineering. They make tires for a lot of heavy equipment and they will sell you direct. (800) 833-6309
There is an 8 ton carry deck on auctiontime.com on this weeks auction. Cummins with 2,669 hrs. is stated. No leaks. Closes tomorrow about 10AM. Located in Texas, price is real cheap right now but may well go up as auction nears end.