I am looking at buying a mini (considering a new Yanmar vio27-5) to do part time work on the weekend. I am new to heavy equipment so I do not want to do any work around houses because I think that is better left to the more skilled professionals. I think my target market would be farms/ranches who need irrigation work, doing clearing jobs with small trees, or stump removal. Because I am leaning heavily on my main job for paying the bills, I think I only need to make around $250 to $300 to cover the cost of truck/mini/trailer. My plan is to charge $40 an hour because a) I don't have years of experience and b) I don't have high overhead. My family owns 90 acres of land that I plan to do several projects on to get experience clearing trees, doing some irrigation work and general digging. I do have a few questions and would really appreciate input. What are headache jobs that most full time professionals don't want to do or takes longer? I figure if I can find jobs most professionals don't like then that would be an opportunity for me. Ideally I'd like to find jobs that will take a minimum of 3 hours to all day just so I don't have as much transportation cost. Are there other areas I should be looking at that I haven't mentioned? Do people normally charge for transportation cost or is that just factored into the hourly rate or does it just depend on the job? I plan to buy a dump trailer that can haul the mini but also transport dirt/debris if I need to. Any thoughts good or bad? I really appreciate the input!
Well maybe consider the following: On the machine 1. Unless you really want and can afford new paint I would buy used until you get established. 2. There is little point in buying that size machine. The 27 size machine and the 35 size (usually this is 6000 verse 7500 pounds) are both about equal to transport, take up about the same amount of room on a job so you might as well get the larger machine. With that you get more reach, more lift capacity and more power. With the work you listed power would seem to trump size. 3. For me a mini ex is a necessity but it is rarely a stand alone machine on most jobs, there are times that it is but you are really specializing yourself and its a bad time to do that. You asked what jobs are guys not willing to do, I would say the job that they are NOT going to get paid for. Atleast here, no one is turning work down and its been like this for the last 2.5 years. Perhaps your area is better. The business plan: 1. Your kidding yourself if you think you can make such a small amount of money and make a payment and cover the costs of doing business. $40.00 an hour is not enough especially with a new machine. Better idea, find out what your market will bear and with your costs determine where you can price yourself. 2. Get an assortment of buckets, a coupler, a thumb, maybe a post hole auger as you will need to be able to do a lot of things with that machine to keep it turning. 3. Make sure there is a demand for this type of work in your area. Most often farms and ranches will get a back hoe guy for the work you described, but maybe your area is different. Machines your size are used in tight confined areas. A little mini ex in a big open area typically does not happen often. 4. You will need to get your name out there, that takes some time and money. Have enough money set aside to get things kicked off well. 5. Get good at running the machine. That will also take time and money. Most customers are not going to hire you again or recommend you if don't know what your doing and take longer than you should to get things done. No matter what your hourly rate. Don't forget to get insurance.
Thank you KSSS for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I have a few questions in response to your points. My only hesitation about buying used is the unknown cost of repairs if there is a major problem after I purchase it. How confident can you be you have a good machine if a mechanic looks it over before the purchase? I appreciate your input on size. i have been looking at a used vio35 with only 80 hours without thumb for 25k or new vio27 with thumb for 27.5. The vio35 sounds like a much better deal, its just the 27 comes with a warranty. I had hoped a lower hourly rate would buy me some leniency but I do see your point. I am also a little concerned when you mentioned mini are usually not alone. I had hoped a mini and a dump trailer would cover most of my needs...can you give me a few examples of one man jobs that would require more machinery?
On the warranty: Typically the full warranty is only for a year anyway. I am not sure what Yanmar offers but 1 year is pretty typical sometimes the motor maybe covered for two years. The reality is almost everyones machine is pretty trouble free for the first couple thousand hours. BC would be an exception but since your not looking at one I wont dwell on that. You can sometimes buy added covereage for additional piece of mind. The moral of this is they are largely trouble free machines and buying new just for warranty is likely a waste of money. If you wanted the 35 sized machine you might negeotiate a warranty into the purchase. You can have the machine checked out and that may help tell what kind of machine you have, that is no garrantee of having a flawless machine, another reason why $40.00 an hour is too low. You need to pay for the machine, pay for depreciation so you can buy another one when the time comes and keep up on maintenance and give yourself a wage. That wont happen on $40.00 Stand alone machine: I typically team my Takeuchi with a skid steer on most jobs. On most home additions (which has become more popular the last couple years) often you cant get a truck close to the addition you have to shuttle the material to the truck. Concrete preparation while sometimes can be done with just an excavator often involves shuttling sod and dirt out and gravel into the project. The two pieces compliment each other well but seldom it seems that the mini ex can do a project without some loader support. Not saying it could not be done but I would either get to know someone at the local rental house or another contractor that has a skid steer because you will need one. Going back to the specialization thing again, you need to be adaptable right now. Only having a mini ex will cause you to pass on some jobs or rent a skid steer/ctl might be hard to recoup that rental fee and mob fee on the smaller jobs . Some thing to think about. My thoughts and ideas are based on what I encounter. Your area maybe different. Get a clean up bucket, it is a larger bucket with no teeth, used in soft material. Mine is very valuable to me. Would not be without it. It will help with smaller grading projects and about a million other things. Get good at running the excavator on your own time. Practice a lot. No customer other than maybe familiy wants to be used as your training ground. Learn to be a competent operator on your own time.Making a positive impression is hugely important. Good luck
KSSS, good advice. I know around here guys that aren't willing to take on just about anything are dying out{selling out} and finding some other type of work/job. An excavator is an awsome tool to have but I agree there more then likely will need to be another tool involved to be a success,.,.,..skidsteer, tractor, dozer ???? With that said, if you plan on owning a mini X anyway for around the property, it may be something you could make an extra $$ or two on the side???? Again, I agree with KSSS folks are not going to like being your guinea pig, so make sure you have an idea of how to operate the machine. Most charge for transportation, these things aren't cheap to haul, by the time one adds in lic fees{truck trailer etc...} fuel and time spent on the road.
I have been thinking about the advice given so far. Right now there is no way I can afford a skid steer (new or used) in addition to the excavator and trailer. I think I will have to save a little longer so that I can float the excavator loan on my normal salary. That will give me as much time as I need to improve my skills and then I can pick up jobs that I am equipmented for. If things go well maybe I can expand to purchase the skid steer and if they don't, then I can still keep the excavator. This will be hard because I am really excited about getting a mini ex and patience isn't one of my strong points. Thanks very much for the advice. I had fully planned to jump into this as a part time business but after thinking through the points made by you two, I think I had best start in a way where I am not dependant on the mini to make my payments
Thanks Upnover. The vio35 I was looking at was an 07 and from a private seller so i think the warranty is pretty much over. Right now I am toying with buying a bobcat 331. I have heard mixed reviews about bobcats on this forum but for 17k and 435 hours it is hard to beat. My biggest concern is it is rental but I spoke to the local bobcat dealer and his experience with that rental company is they keep their equipment is good condition. I asked why they are selling it and they said because it is a 2005 and they refresh every 5 years. Does anyone have any specific feedback on the bobcat 331?
very low hours for a hire machine let alone one 5 years old - did nobody want to hire it for a particular reason? or has it sat around for ages waiting for an expensive repair? If not sounds like a bargain.
Well...hmm...spoke to the rental company today...apparently they meant 1400 hours instead of 400. I'm very hesitant now because my thought is 1400 hours in rental is more like 2500 to 3000 in normal hours just because you have people that don't know what they are doing. So I am shopping around again. I am more preferential now towards Bobcats because everyone I have spoken to at the local dealer has been very helpful.
1toomanyhobbies - I am kind of in the same boat as you. I have a full time job and on the side I do some landscaping work. I ended up purchasing a used machine because I didn't want to drop $30-$40k on a new one, although I spent close to that but I got a larger machine (CAT 305CR). I test drove the Bobcats and I liked the way they operated and it was easy to access all of the major components. As far as pricing on jobs, I don't move the excavator for anything less than $350 because it just isn't worth it. Plus, if someone goes out and rents one its $300/day plus delivery so they aren't going to be able to do any better. It isn't difficult to operate a mini-x but you should be proficient before taking it over to a customers house. You are also going to want to think about getting liability insurance so that god for bid anything happens you are covered so you are going to want to take that into consideration when bidding too. There are some good machines out there that are used but take your time and try to find something that is fairly clean and is going to work for what you need it for.
$350 to move a mini??I don't know how you can get that. I will move a 210 for that. our minis are b/c 435 and a 307 and we move those for $100 or $125. I would think about buying a tractor at the auction before going out and buying one from the dealer. good luck.
I started in the dirt biz ten years ago with a kobota L-35 backhoe-loader with a hydraulic box scraper and hydraulic auger. I charged $65 pr hr with a 3 hr min. Mostly home owner projects or custom home builders. RV pads, ditch cleaning, grading driveways, water lines, gas lines, post holes, tree holes. It worked, but I think you will be some what limited with a mini x, although their great machines, just pretty specific. Oh, and buy used. Something with less than 2000 hrs. Just have a good diesel mechanic check it out for you. You'll save $$$$ so if the thing just sits there you won't feel so bad! Cheers my friend! http://www.olenderstightspot.com/
Sorry, I should have been more specific... its not that I charge $350 to just move it, its just that I wouldn't do a job that was less than $350.... so whatever my hourly rate is for the job would give me a minimum total job charge of $350. Its not worth doing a $150 job that is all I am trying to say. Since this isn't a full time job for me maybe I treat them differently than everyone else... just my opinion
Interesting to here from someone on the east coast. I'm in Ca and the market will not bare what it did a few years ago. It's sounding like all the "stimulus" money is running out, so that puts a damper on future jobs.
It is definitely pretty slow here as well. Most of the "stimulus" money here went to highway workers or extremely large construction companies. It is extremely competitive to get any work that is out there for a mini and I am seeing a lot of people price extremely low but sometimes it makes more sense to have the equipment sitting there doing nothing if I can't get the price I need. Between wear and tear on the truck, trailer, fuel, and maintenance on the mini-x its just not worth putting the hours on the machine. But as I said before I wouldn't probably be saying that if this was my full time job. I am not sure how it is near you but sometimes its the little things that get me the job even though I am not the least expensive (on-time, friendly, clear communication, organized, knowledgeable, present yourself well, business cards, etc).
Well it's like Forest said, with that box of chocolate, you never know what you're going to get! I know this business and it's all I have at this point. Yes, if your customers get from you that they are the most important thing, they will keep calling you back. Doing the best job you can do, is just doing what you should do.
We I decided to make the plunge. I bought a 2008 bobcat 335 with new tracks and 595 hours from the local bobcat dealer for $25k. It seemed like a lot of people stressed having a good relationship with the dealer so I thought purchasing from the dealer I would be getting it serviced by would be a good thing plus I thought the low hours would be good. My family has 90 acres of land with an old cabin that I plan to do a lot of work to get practice land clearing, creating a shooting berm, grading some tractor paths in bad shape and just general use to get used to the machine. After that I do plan to take the $100 jobs just so I can continue to get practice and help offset the monthly payments. I plan to purchase an auger and will be picking up a dump trailer soon. I do want to give a huge thanks to Randy on this forum. :notworthy He is been an enormous help although I think he will soon drive me to drinking while I keep hearing about the potential liability issues. :Banghead Thanks for all the input from everyone, I look forward to continue to learn from all the advice from you guys. :usa
Keep us posted and I would love to see pics...I liked the Bobcat machines a lot but I couldn't get them to deal at all on them.
Wow, it is amazing how foolish I was when I originally created this thread. $35 per hour...yeah, right. Now that I have purchased a trailer, insurance for the mini Ex, general liability insurance, and commercial insurance on the dodge 2500 to make sure I have enough coverage. I am absolutely positive I will make further boneheaded comments/assumptions but its funny how I can at least see a few that I have made in the original post. Well live and learn. Very much enjoying the mini ex and bidding on my first project this weekend for doing some land clearing. I am hoping it goes through because it is so much easier doing a couples days worth of work instead of chasing down several jobs that only take a few hours. Thanks for all the help in trying to point me in the right direction and Ill try and take some pictures of the 335 in action.