Hi Everyone, As a continuation of my last thread (D4D with a Shot Undercarriage) Hearing that my machine might have some life left in her. I got hope that she'll help us do the work that we set out do. As the title says I'm a new operator. I do have basic knowledge about heavy machinery. But I feel a daunting weight of the unknown. The last thing I would like to do is make a terrible rookie mistake and turn this beauty into a pile of scrap metal. I got thrown into this unexpectedly. My church (in Vancouver WA) acquired a pice of rural land with the intent to create a getaway for kids and teenagers. With barley any cell service, we are hoping to show these kids that there's more to life then just an iPad and TicTok. **Nothing against any of it if used with a purpose .... Before anyone points out the obvious. No we don't have anyone in our community that know how to operate this machine skillfully. I'm reaching out to you guys because I will be on of the few that will be spending countless seat hours operating this machine. So let me start from the beginning. We have a 1971 D4D serial #83J1524 (I'll attach a photo) It's Direct Drive (3 Frwd / 3 Rev ) with a 4 Way Blade with no rear auxiliary. That's about as far as my knowledge goes. Here's what I would love to find out from the experts. Do's and Dont's Good operator Habits Commen Mistakes Tips and Tricks Maintenance and Upkeep Suggestions Repair Suggestions? Anything else you guys think I should know about. I don't know if I'm asking for too much. But one thing I can say is your input will be greatly appreciated. Alot more then words can express. Thank you! Rickyboby
What is your timeline? If you are not in an all-fired hurry, I may be able to come by one day later this spring and give some instructions.
Looks like someone was smart to put what should be checked before starting on the dash. Also looks like 15,000+ hours. If that's correct it appears it was well taken care of. Hour meters can't be trusted though. If it runs good and works is what matters.
Being the undercarriage may be questionable, if you hear a pop STOP! and I mean right then and there! chances are you have a track coming off and they are far easier to put back on when you catch it quick enough. BTDT too many times with worn out machines.
Your tractor is powershift with 3fwd, 3rev, not direct drive. The direct drive has a clutch lever near where your gear selector is, a gear lever with 5 gears between your legs and a fwd rev lever near the blade control. If I'm correct care must be taken with it. Do not go from forward to reverse on the move, the tractor needs to be stationary. There should be a locking lever near the shift selector, ALWAYS use it before dismounting. Steering, these levers are either pulled fully back to disengage the clutch or left engaged, don't let then slip the clutches. If I wasn't so far away I'd volunteer to work it for you folk, enjoy it. PS I've just looked the the photos and the blade tilt ram needs some attention unless its dirt on it. Looks like a chunk of chrome is missing. If I'm correct it needs fixing or you'll get dirt in the hydraulic system. Please confirm.
Wow Skyking1, that would be an honor.
it kinda looks like a cut flat for wrenching. If the seal goes past it that should be very wet and not good. Maybe it is just a flat outside of the travel.
Hey Tones, thanks for setting me straight.
Have you got round to downloading an Operation & Maintenance Manual yet.? Now that it's been confirmed having as a powershift transmission I need to change the recommendation of which manual you need. Initially I found a compromise manual SEBU5270 that covers both direct drive and powershift tractors. SEBU6654 is the one you really need for a powershift, although you should ignore the "Switch vs Shift" typo in the title of the illustration below. See attached.
Let me get you some better photos. These are the best I can do for now. I think the thing on top is a grease smug or a some debris.... Otherwise thr chrome looks whole.
Looks to me like weeping seals on the head of the cylinder.
It's the mark in the 3rd photo near the RH bolt head that I would like confirmed. From what I can see there's damage there. Edit; with it being powershift there's a few more dipsticks to pull on prestart checks. Read the operation manual for the required information.
I see what you mean. Certainly warrants further investigation.
It might not retract that far but looks like it could be the same as the flat spot on the other side but in a different position.
Picture of the whole operator area, you know the shift lever and blade etc.
Here are the photos like promised. That flat spot is on both sides. Does that mean it's there for wrenching on it?
I have a few questions regarding the front idler wheel. Is it supposed to be riding dead even or is this properly aligned?
Is the cylinder fully retracted in those photos, or will it retract further.? The idler whould ride more central than that, maybe not dead centre but closer than your photos show. The idler guides probably need re-shimming.
Cylinder, are you referring to the tensioner? Or does the idler wheel have a tensioner/cylinder... What do you mean by re-shimming. And do you do it.
Think the cylinder rods are fine and the idlers aren't a big deal if they aren't perfectly centered. The whole undercarriage has some wear but should last for awhile. If you get to the point of replacing the undercarriage or notice unusual wear on the idlers or rails then you should have a closer inspection to determine what's wrong.
Looking at the track chains in these photos I think I'd put a couple new sprockets on the machine and you'd get some pretty good use on the rest of what you have there now and could relax the tension on the tracks some without worrying about throwing a track. Running tracks to tight can cause a host of problems you would want to avoid if humanly possible.
Sorry for the confusion. I was replying to one of your posts when you posted the second one so I replied to that one also. In doing so the replies did not make it clear which post they referred to. The "Is the cylinder fully retracted in those photos, or will it retract further.?" question refers to the RH blade tilt cylinder in the three photos accompanying Post #16. In other words if the cylinder is completely retracted does that flat spot on the rod go inside the cylinder or not.? If it does not then it is not a problem - other than the fact the seals are leaking a bit that is. "The idler should ride more central than that, maybe not dead centre but certainly closer than your photos show. The idler guides probably need re-shimming. " This refers to the four photos accompanying Post #18. The reason for the off-centre running of the idler may be more complex and possibly should be discussion for a separate thread. For example there could be a problem of track frame misalignment resulting from wear in one or more areas which, if that's the case, doesn't really have a workable solution within your budget. Try a quick check using the illustration below. 1. Remove the 4 bolts and the 1M-8869 Plate from the outside of the idler assembly. 2. Measure the thickness of the pack of 4K-3585 shims that you will find sandwiched between the plate and the idler assembly. 3. Inspect the narrow strip along the track frame where the plate slides back & forth as the recoil mechanism operates. You can see the marks of this area to the right of the plate in the photo. Is the track frame worn down in that specific narrow strip.? It is not unusual for this to happen. 4. Reassemble the plate and shim pack. Tighten the hardware. 5. Repeat Steps 1 thru 4 for the plate on the inside of the track frame. Post your results
The problem is that the sprockets on the OP's tractor do not have bolt-on tooth segments. They are one-piece, requiring first the removal of the track frames to give access to the sprockets. Before that can be done the blade and push arms have to also come off. Then the sprockets themselves have be removed/installed by the use of specialized hydraulic pulling equipment. That's probably a reason why whoever owned the tractor before fought shy of doing the job. The other alternative, which would still require the removal of blade, push arms, and track frames, would be to cut off the outer rim of the sprocket containing the teeth and buy a replacement Rim assembly. The Rim would need to be welded on to the centre disc of the old sprocket that remained on the machine, a quite complex process and not for the inexperienced. See SEHS7274 attached.
I hate to rain on your parade but having no one around with any experience operating or repairing this type of machine may be a money pit of headaches and cost. In my opinion it would be better to hire a contractor. It may be cheaper in the long run
This.......... Especially when the area under discussion is only 5 acres.
Wow, that's a lot to go through to replace sprockets, I didn't realize they didn't have RR segments. I guess run them tell she won't move.
Plus fitting new sprockets to warn chains isn't the smartest thing to do.
RickyBobby, on this forum there was a bloke called Scrub Puller who wrote some very good advice on how to operate dozers. It still could be here but the site has gone through some changes since then. Fingers crossed
Maybe one of members of the church works in construction and runs a dozer? Interesting welding procedures. Lists only 1/8" and 3/16" 7018 and not 5/32" while also mentioning not to get things too hot. For automatic welding only 150 deg. preheat compared to 300 deg's. for stick. I realize stick is listed for spokes but flux-core and sub-arc put more heat into the weldment much faster than stick so there is a higher quench effect on the weldment. If too much heat is detrimental why use 1/16" flux-core at 400 amps instead of .045" flux-core at much less amps. I'm not sure what the low end parameters of sub-arc are. It seems like the sprockets could be successfully welded using smaller dia. rods or wire if the person welding didn't have a 250 amp stick welder or 400 amp constant voltage welder for flux-core. I think spray arc mig could also be effective. Would be interesting to know what type of steel the sprockets are and how it compares to common grades of weldable steel and the welding procedures.
Here's an up close photo of the sprocket, I understand it does look like it's brand new. But it doesn't seem like it's to sharp. What do you guys think. Is it time to re-weld a new sprocket on?
Did you miss the above comment from @Tones .?
I think the sprocket wear is consistent with the bushing wear. I'd run the tracks just slightly tight 1 1/4"-1 1/2" sag and see how it goes. You don't want them too tight because it puts too much pressure on the tips of the sprocket teeth.
If you need to go all through that to replace sprockets I couldn't agree more, If it was just a matter of RR the sprockets after removing the bolts that held them to the hub....and one wasn't intending to work the machine many hours a week...it will buy you some time to replace just the sprockets. That's my story and I'm sticking to it...lol.
My 50 cent of experience... There´s no point replacing the sprocket in a used up chain, as the new sprocket tecnically does not have the same pitch due to chain strech and bush wear, so professionals use to replace both chain and sprockets at a time, then rotate bushings and install new sprockets, all other track riding elements can be replaced one by one, as increased wear untill parts match up is not noticeable. This beeing said and accepted as a "way to proceed" other considerations have to be weighed. Beeing a conventional track there will come a time where the sprocket will slips toot, this may lead to derail, specially when walking in inclines , with all the inconvenience that rerailing will take. If machine is to run in level terrain, it does not derail that easy even when sliping tooth, anyway when that starts to happen its time to fix sprocket and chain. BTW that sprocket has a lot of life still, just keep it tight as per the book, and u still be able to run for a quite some hundred hours. Those sprocket weels have been repaired by welding segments.... i wonder why they did not chose bolt on segments when they did that...
The original sprockets on the tractor are the "spoked-wheel" type. There is nothing on which to weld a flange with bolt holes that would be capable of receiving bolt-on segments. You can see the welds at the end of the spokes where a replacement rim has been installed previousy in the photo below.
Maybe another reality check called for here. The OP stated that he doesn't have much experience with machinery and that's fine. Yet here he is asking if it is necessary to carry out a complex welding repair procedure that also requires the blade, push arms, and track frames to be removed from the tractor before the sprockets can even be accessed.
Anyway that was exactly what i mean´t, istead of a weld a rim sprocket, i have seen welding a rim with holes to bolt on sprocket segments, it was long ago in D6´s and 8´s not really sure how it was done back then just seen them doing it.
AFAIK the installation of a Sprocket Segment Adapter Group (aka "rim with holes to bolt on segments") was only available on larger models where the original sprocket was of the “non-spoked” variety. On smaller machines a replacement weld-on rim was all that was available. On Page 1 of SEHS7274 that I posted above is the following - “For some machines, adapters are available for conversion to the use of sprocket segments. If this type of reconditioning is desired, see Special Instruction SMHS7751, entitled Installation of Sprocket Segment Adapter Groups". From what I can see the D6 is the smallest size of tractor where this type of conversion will work.
I think you are worrying too much. You're just trying to work a few acres, not make a living with it for the next 20yrs. Service it, grease it, adjust the track tension and get to work. If you're just working dirt, have at it and learn as you go. Clearing land is a bit more dangerous so you might want to proceed with more caution (and experienced help). A few very basic tips: Dozers can move erratically, if it has a seat belt wear it, if not add one. Breaking over a pile of dirt, large rock, log etc will pitch the machine up and back very quickly, go slowly especially as the tracks start over the edge. Always strip your sod/topsoil first and pile it out of the way to use it later. Anywhere you make a pile make sure you can get back behind it to spread it out, don't 'paint yourself in a corner'. If you have a big pile of dirt, gravel, etc to spread start cutting down the side and push it out as you go. A tandem dump truck size pile you should be able to push straight through with that machine. Most work will be in 1st gear, reverse in 1st or 2nd. Going too fast in reverse is hard on undercarriage. If you are trying to level an area start from a smooth starting point if possible and work your way out. Keep plenty of material in front of your blade as your go. Working an area in 2-3 different directions will help to make it flat, start running N-S, then E-W, then at 45*. I can add more if need be, but there are some good books and videos about dozer operation out there you might want to check out. After running several tanks of fuel through it you'll start to get the hang of it.
Yeah, just run it and get used to it. The teeter totter effect takes time to get used to. A track machine doesn't roll over obstacles or steeper hills like a rubber tire machine. It can be violent when you go over center and throw you off the machine or bang your head into windshield on a cabbed machine.
Yea, I missed it the first time, he has a solid point. Guess we'll keep rolling along, babying it like crazy.
MG84 Wow, huge thanks for your advice. I've been devouring videos on YouTube like crazy. I'm fully aware that I know zilch, and with no hands-on experience. That's why I came here to ask you guys. **BTW, thanks yall for all your input** We plan to start the project as soon as the snow clears (mid-March). If you or anyone else has any suggestions about Videos or Books to read, recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
I'll be wearing a seatbelt for sure
If you are not planning on starting work until the snow clears see what you can do to get @skyking1 up there.........
I'll get up there when things are good and thawed out, and we can post some functional videos. I am hopeful it can get what they want done and get back on a trailer and leave. The key is work it flat, keep it's feet down and on good soil. Sidehills no no no. Bouncing through a bunch of ugly stones, no. If it can move a wrinkle and not pop or creak too much, then make a plan and stick with it.
I think I can see light at the end of the tunnel Thanks Skyking1, Im looking forward to meeting you.
Hey Tones, I was able to find Scrub Puller, cool dude. Looks like he's went off line in 2017. I was able to track down a few of the threads he participated in. Picked up a few golden nuggets of information, and still digging. here are the threads that I found that contained dozer operating tips, trick, and advice. HeavyEquipmentForums HeavyEquipmentForums
In 2020 I was on a road trip and spent a few days finding him. A very interesting character with a lot of dimensions in his life. Botched eye surgery had made it near impossible for him to see. One bloke told that if you wanted 2 places of metal stuck together no matter what they were Scrub was the goto bloke.
Good Afternoon, Gents! I'm incredibly grateful for all of your advice. I can honestly say I’ve learned a lot. Thanks, Tones, for the tip! These past few weeks, I’ve been devouring every thread I could find where Scrub Puller shared his insights. I’m beginning to realize just how vast and incredible this community is. My respect for all of you has tripled since my first got here. Nige, your valuable insight into so many subjects is extraordinary. Have you ever considered writing a book? With all your stories and experiences, it would be an absolute blast to read.
We're planning to break ground in a few weeks. Ive connected with SkyKing1, we're in talks right now. Hopefully, he's gonna be able to come down from the Seattle area, and come spend some time with us. I'd love to keep you guys in the loop with photos of the progress *if ya'll would like Cheers, yall!
He is the one poster that makes me wish I'd joined sooner. I also wonder if that the format hadn't changed, would he still be around? It drove me absolutely crazy that first change when you couldn't see threads you responded to without clicking the "active threads" tab. I wish he'd have been able to figure it out, but it sounds like he can't see anyway.
Small Update: Our Field Project is well under way. With about 12 hours+ under the belt, I can confidently say I greatly appreciate all the advice I've received from you guys. I'm still getting a feeling for what level feels like when I'm in the seat. Moving at crawl speed, slowly getting the hang of how the machine responds to every input. Consolidating blade movement into one controller must have been a huge advancement back in the day Here an Arial shot of the ball field.
Currently slot dozing the topsoil into a big pile on the left-hand side. Working backwards from the pile.
I took a nice drive across several passes to check out the job. Big herd of elk outside Ashford. Skate Creek road was open. Mt Rainier from a different angle The dirt's pretty nice now. The old girl starts and moves and there is some work left in it. They have been very busy with infrastructure and it is looking good up there. We talked about tactics on saving the best topsoil and making the cuts and fills. The parcel is bisected by a nice year round creek. Some other volunteers built the footbridge with logs from the site.
Sounds beautiful. Is it good land? Is it designed to gets kids in the outdoors and work or is it supposed to be all done before the kids get there? I saw ball field on the map?
Not sure about that I am sure there will be ongoing projects. The logging trails are all there and can be kept up as trails. I explained the subtle thank-you-mams and how they work, and how to watch for anything starting and putting other diversions in. Just digging in a cross log here and there does wonders and I did not detail that. @RickyBobbyD4D that is a great use for a few of the logs, if you see some erosion runnels starting up. They are up a county road that is the poster child of how not to grade a road. This is not on them to fix but the wait-list is long to get if fixed.
I spoke with our dozer operator and the D4 is still going strong with 100 hours of work on it now. Not too shabby for free He keeps the oils filled and greased and it keeps on keeping on.
Hey there every one, Sorry for the long delay—here’s a much overdue update! Like Syking1 already mentioned, we’ve clocked in just over 100 hours on the D4 since my last post. The topsoil has been completely stripped, and leveling is well underway. Ran into some unexpected rock formations on the uphill/north side, so we’re having to rethink parts of the plan—adjusting where and how we’ll be leveling. Still a lot left to do, but progress is steady and the machine’s been running strong. Both hydraulic cylinders started weeping, along with the rear final drive. *Were on top of it! Topping off the oils. Other than that, she keeps pushing!
Here's some more Photos
Looks like quite a bit of material to move.
Hi Everyone, were still chipping way at the field. And encountered our first broken tooth. Any ideas on how to do a quick inexpensive fix? reattach and straighten out the cutting edge. Looking forward to hearing your suggestions!
Very much doubt you'll straighten that out. Not checking the bolts is the most likely cause, usually part of end of day shutdown or prestart.
get new bolts and take it off, clean it up and try to press it straight? Just spitballing here. Or just run without it. That D4 is pretty much used up now.
Might be able to pull it back on with the bolts after you take it off and clean it up.
Some heat would help to straighten it. It doesn't appear to be a very high carbon steel cutting edge or it would have broke. Heating would make it a little softer but not a big deal considering it's already wornout. Some F clamps or C clamps would help pull it up the blade and then you could install the bolts as you go.
Get new bolts/nuts cut the old nuts off that are left, run the tractor up on the cutting edge with the bend facing up, put a piece of 2x6 on ether side of the bend which may take some or all of the bend out, clean the edge and the blade edge up nice and replace the bolts from the right to left side and pull it back straight....carry on.
I'd worry it would warp trying to straighten by taking it off and the bolts wouldn't line up.
It's already bent, what harm can be done by removing it and trying to flatten it enough to get the bolts in and pull it back into position on the blade face? The other option is to get new edge and points and replace all which doesn't sound like the OP wants to do.
it may not be bent to bad , it may dirt jammed behind it, take it off and clean both halves good. start on 1 end start bolting it back on, if need be, put a piece all thread in end bolt and pull it down
I'm just saying taking it off to straighten, it might get a twist and the bolts don't line up. The edge is still solidly bolted. Seems like that's the best starting point. Could push up against a tree or something else solid to assist in straightening it.
Im back in town with better service. Here are some more photos.
I took a socket to the bolts and those things didn't even budge. Even after some penetrating oil they still didn't move. By the looks of it the thread is all chewed up. Im gonna have to bring a grinder and cut them all off. Any suggestions on touching up the edge? Can that be done with the grinder? Should it be sharp and blunt or more rounded? Like you guys already mentioned. I'd rather salvage this blade and the points instead of getting new ones.
The shape of that edge I'd price out a new one. If it's a std. bolt hole pattern might not be too expensive. I priced out grader edges at it was like $187 for an 8' x8"x3/4". 6" wide would be even less. Oddly enough edges for skid steer buckets are more expensive.
Just buy new bolts sir. Cut the bent edge into smaller bits if needed. Should be sound.
As for blunt/sharp cutting edges……that’s an artful debate to be honest. On scrapers,I soon found that Cat edges would wear out faster than the other brand (Berco Qualitough) that I used to run.They were also more expensive. However,the Cat edges were thinner and sharper and would load material faster and easier therefore much cheaper in the big picture. It should also be noted that plating blades up with cutting edges and wear plates was ok for rock and the likes,but would have a surprisingly negative effect on slot dozing soil or clay.
Probably more skid steer edges sold Dave?
This dozer is all cobbled out. The running gear is 25% and will not get repaired. Please keep that in mind. If the blade gets beat up due to lack of an edge you can save your crocodile tears for a better machine.
Maybe less skid steer edges sold. Skid steers didn't used to have bolt on edges except for snow buckets. Somebody realized the edges wear in most applications. You move a load of topsoil dumped on the road onto the lot and it doesn't take many loads to wear the edge out. I found once it starts wearing it wears faster.
Thanks for all the ideas, super helpful!!! I'm gonna be going back out there next week. I think I'll start by clearing the dirt and then try pushing the blade up againts an imovable objext and try to bend it back in. If that doesnt work, then Ill take it off completely, and do what [B]Mcrafty1[/B] suggested. I'll keep you all updated!
Yeah, that's pretty much what happened
Hey Yall, Thanks for your advice. We got the edge back on. Turns out it was already cracked. We cleaned up the area and then put it back on. It's gonna have to do for now.
End of the year update. Thanks to everyone for you advice and support. Huge thanks to Skyking1 for coming down and walking our project. I can confidently say, we couldn't have gotten this far without you guys! Here's the friut of your expertise and our labor. (11-20-2025)
If you hadn't figured it out already the tightness of the bolts holding the cutting edge in place should be checked on a regular basis, preferably during the walkaround inspection every time the machine is used. If the bolts are ever found to be loose and there is any sort of a gap between the cutting edge and the blade it should be removed, everything cleaned, and refitted before attempting to tighten the hardware. Any dirt in that gap and it will be impossible to keep the hardware tight.
Special dozer loctite tricks. 1 Heat the nuts to red and then tighten them. 2 Weld straps --------------- Cat dealer would do this for roller rock guard bolts, My memory? 3 Regular loctite
While using an air impact on nuts have someone on the front hammering on the bolt head.