Good morning everyone. This is the first thread I'm posting in Skidsteers. I have a 1995 New Holland Lx885 and it has been running great for the last 5 or 6 years that I have owned it. I parked it in October, just before it started getting cold. I went out a couple of weeks ago and it would not start. I found the hot wire lead to the fuel shutoff solenoid appeared to have been arcing against my starter. However, there is still 12v getting to the solenoid. I ordered a new one but am unsure if I need to remove the fuel pump before I remove the solenoid. I wouldn't think so, but this is the question if anyone can answer it. I also found the intake manifold glow plug had failed. I fixed the wire in the glow plug and it now glows, but when I removed the fuel line from it and turned the unit over, no fuel came out. That is what lead me to the shutoff solenoid. I have ordered a new glow plug as well. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Here is my fuel pump. The solenoid can be seen at the lower left corner of the fuel pump.
Another pic of my fuel pump with a better view of the shutoff solenoid on the lower left corner.
Here is a pic of my fuel filters. According to the manual, I should have a lift pump on top of them but it does not look like the pic of what is in the manual.
If u think the solenoid is the problem.. u might be able to unscrew it from the pump and remove the plunger and spring from the solenoid body and screw it back it the pump, w/o the plunger and spring..& try to start it.. If it starts, u can shut it off with the short lever on the top cover.. Be sure to tape or cap off the hot wire that feeds the solenoid.. u don’t want it arcing on the block. On the newer solenoids, the plunger and spring DOES NOT come out of the solenoid.. Good luck
that is what i thought. thanks for takking time to help.
Update. I replaced the fuel shutoff solenoid and still won't start. Checked all fuses, in the cab and in the engine compartment. None are blown. I'll be working on it again tomorrow. Any suggestions are deeply appreciated. I have read the service manual and it's not much help either. Does anyone know the circuitry that controls the fuel supply?
R u saying it won’t CRANK THE ENGINE OR it won’t START.? U have to get the engine to CRANK BEFORE it’ll START.. If it’ll crank but not start, loosen the fuel line that feeds the inj pump and crank the engine and look to see if fuel is gushing out of the loosened line.. If it is, stop cranking and tighten the line back up.. Now pull the throttle to wide open and loosen the lines going to the injectors AT THE INJECTORS.. just a turn or 2.. u don’t have to take them off, just loosen ALL OF THEM. Now crank the engine a couple of short 10 second bursts.. and see if u get fuel squirting out of the loosened lines.. If yes, tighten up all the lines and crank the engine.. it should start..
I work on those engines on wrecker yard forklifts. Those things have too many problems besides solenoids. You should have make sure that fuel flows everywhere and there’s no air sucking in, especially in between those glass bowls. And make sure your strainer on the transfer pump on the back of the injection pump is not obstructed. And purge air like PumpguySC says. Are those gravity fed it lift pumped in the skid steers?
U see the double screw next to the name plate on the side of the inj pump, 7/16 body with a 5/16 screwed into it.. THATS the bleeder screw.. loosen the 5/16 and crank the engine.. it should shoot fuel a foot or 2.. with NO AIR.. snug it back up.. By the looks of the filters, they haven’t been changed in a LONG TIME.. U might wanna put THAT on ur to-do list..
Thanks for the additional thoughts. Here is the situation. It will crank. It won't start. I used it in October. I parked it and was going to use it in December to move some snow. It wouldn't start. I found the intake manifold glow plug wasn't working. I fixed the glow plug, now it glows hot. The glow plug has a fuel line to it. I left it off and ran a hose from it to a container and then cranked it over, during and after the countdown. No fuel came out. Thought it was the solenoid and replaced the solenoid. It still acts like no fuel is getting anywhere. It has a small hand primer pump. I loosened the drain on the filter and pumped fuel through it manually. I checked for water, no water. Of interest, I did not see any type of electric lift pump that is shown in the parts manual. However, my filter situation looks different than the parts manual so this thing may have a hydraulic lift pump that I found in my searching for lift pumps. The first picture is the hydraulic lift pump, the second one is the electric variety pictured in the parts manual. I've also had the block heater plugged in after I installed the new shutoff solenoid. It still would not start. It's been in the 40's during the day and the 20's overnight. Today, I am planning on chasing down fuel supply issues. I have a dodge ram with the Cummins diesel and when the gas gauge failed, I ran it out of fuel and had to run it through the priming sequence to get fuel back to the injectors. I will go through the steps you outlined above. Thanks again.
TVA - Thanks for your suggestions. See my situation I have outlined in my reply to thepumpguyssc. I used it, parked it, it got cold, tried to start it to no avail. I will get into the filters and fuel traceback today. Thanks again and will keep you guys posted.
thepumpguyssc, thanks for the addional suggestion. Yes, fuel filters are on my list as I go through on this thing. I haven't changed them since I purchased it 6 years ago, but I don't use it that much either. Regardless, I will be replacing them as well. Thanks again.
Here is a pic of my pump and filters per the parts manual. part #6 is the small manual primer pump. It is a push pump.
The ones I work on are gravity fed without a hand pump, it’s a pain in the rear to purge that of air!!! Every joint on those filters can suck air, and I wouldn’t really know that, because everything is on the suction side. Eventually I’ve replaced all the copper crush washers under all the fittings and plugs with the bonded (dowty) washers. To eliminate that. The o-rings between filters and top and bottom housings and glass bowl are pain to deal with. I use aviation gasket maker ( shellac) to retain them in place, while assembling. Do not use brake cleaner on that acrylic glass bowl - it’ll start eating at it. I use starting fluid instead. It’ll freeze your fingers off in the winter time though . The bolts that assemble the filters together also need good compression style washers under them, or brand new o-rings ( I’ve seen the both ways). Do not use o-ring that is too fat, they will crack or get chewed up on the installation. New filters should have O -rings with them. But it’s depends who you get them from. And thread the bolts by hand all the way until everything start touching each other - those suckers like to cross thread.
If the machine sat around idle for a while - it could have grown bacteria in the tank. If it did - it’ll keep plugging filters. I’d suggest inspecting the tank. Because every time your file level will be getting lower - it’ll start sucking that black bacteria gunk to the filters
There’s another strainer under the fitting I’ve circled, despite having two filters before it, it also gets plugged up. Be careful when you will be removing it, the bottom of the strainer goes on top of transfer pressure regulator, sometimes they like to come out together, and parts on the bottom of the regulator can fall down. Put something underneath when you will be pulling the strainer out, to catch those. Hopefully only strainer will come out.
TVA - thanks for the additional help. I'll check for fuel flow or stoppage a little later this morning when it warms up a bit more. The pic helps. I'll keep everyone posted as to my progress. Hopefully i'll get it running today or at least this week.
TVA - a stupid question. Where is the lift pump? It does not have the electric pump as shown in the parts manual and does not show anything on the hydraulic lift pump. Any ideas?
TVA - Do you know if the fuel tubes in the tank give problems? My brother has a JD and a Bobcat and both have had broken fuel tubes in the tank.
I think there’s none. Just that hand pump, and everything else is done by injection pumps “transfer pump”. Thats what makes it not that reliable. You can look at your engine sides, they usually run off of the cam on the camshaft. I remember looking at the parts daiagram for those NH engines, and all I saw was that hand pump, in my case they were eliminated on all 3 of the forklifts long before I started working on them. But in my case it’s little better, because the tank is higher than the injection pump, and it does have gravity feed. What i see from pictures you send - your tank is below the injection pump. You can follow the hose from the tank, and see if it will take you to the lift pump, if there is one.
Yes it can happen. In that case you’ll be fine with full tank, but start having problems when level is dropping
I think this is your hand pump, mushroom looking one, in front of the filter housing. That’s a “second” generation of fuel systems on those. Last one is newer single lock-ring style filter element.
Previous system had the hand pump on your diagram, it was mounted on the back of the engine, ritht where engine mates with bell housing
If you have electric one, it’s mounted in your tank, but is separate location from your fuel level sender. Because I don’t see it with the sender in your picture
Parts diagram what I can find do not show a lift pump. Fuel comes off from the top of the tank, to the left from sender unit ( not visible on your picture) and goes straight to the fuel filter housing
Pickup tube 6, clamps 7 and hose 8
TVA - thanks, yes, I have the hand pump to prime it. On my diesel truck, I have a "lift pump" that ensures fuel is fed to the injector pump. On my truick, If the lift pump fails, the injector pump fails because the injector pump used the diesel as a lubricant to keep it oiled up. WIthout a lift pump, how does this thng maintain "prime"? It has never had a problem until now with any fuel-related issue.
TVA - yes, that is the system I have. Thanks,
You must have Dodge Cummins with VP44. When lift pump doesn’t produce much fuel, the computer in the head of the injection pump overheats, and also over time steel diaphragm inside the injection pump may crack. This one has a small vane pump, Lucas/Delphi call it “transfer pump”, it sucks the fuel in, and uses internal “transfer pressure” to spread high pressure plungers apart before cam ring will push them together to produce that injection stroke. That’s why this set up is not that reliable - everything is suction before that strainer I told you about, besides when you using hand pump. And if something sucking air - it will not show up as a fuel leak at that place, unless you pressure rise it with remote pump all the way from the tank or remote reservoir. And that’s why it is sensitive to any little bit of restriction.
I circled the parts of the transfer pump, and transfer pressure regulator, 30 is that strainer I told you about.
39 through 44 is a pump itself
Another word of caution, those fittings in all of those steel lines use rubber grommets in them, when grommets get chewed up or get hard ( over time from engine heat, it gets worse in freezing temperatures) - they also start sucking air. That system is a lot of “fun” to deal with. It’s frustrating as heck!
TVA - Thanks again! You've been a great help! Going to work on it now.
Good luck.
I replaced the fuel filter and cleaned the sediment bowl out. Now I cannot get fuel to pump up through the system using the hand pump to prime it. Any ideas on this issue?
thepumpguyssc - I replaced the fuel filter and cleaned the sediment bowl. I first tested as you suggested, the 5/16 screw - no to very little fuel came out. I then tried cracking the injector lines open and the same thing, no fuel. I took the hose off the tank, placed one that I could blow through and heard bubbles from inside the tank. I replaced the fuel line. Now, I cannot get the primer pump to pull fuel up and fill up the sediment bowl and fuel filter. I guess I can try the air in the tank and push fuel up to the filter and sediment bowl. I'll post pics a little later.
If u can’t get fuel out of that double bleeder screw, ur not gonna get fuel out of the lines AT THE INJECTORS.. Definitely try pressurizing the tank to get the fuel to the inj pump.. Don’t blow anything up.!! U can over pressurize the fuel tank AND the filters.. Good luck
Thanks. Will probably try that tomorrow. I previously blew up a swimming pool pump doing this, so hopefully I learned my lesson!
Hmmm.. with a diaphragm in the hand primer, idk weather or not I’d pressurize it.. u stand a real good chance in blowing the rubber diaphragm..?? Just be careful..
Does the plunger on your hand pump doesn’t really want to jump back?
Take that one off, and pump with hand pump, see if fuel coming out
It might already been blown, or cracked.
I would take the hose that goes from the fuel tank off, and try to suck fuel with my mouth. But that’s just me, I’m not afraid to taste a little of a diesel fuel. If fuel goes without any restriction - I would check the diaphragm in the hand pump next. If that checks out OK start check for leaks in lines and filter housing.
It worked yesterday when there was fuel in the sediment bowl and filter. But now that they are empty, it doesn't want to pull fuel up from the tank. It does go down and come back up.
ok, will try that tomorrow, thanks for all the help. This is worse than priming my diesel truck!
I'll take it loose from the upper point and blow through it tomorrow . I was also wondering if it might be clogged or something.
Yes it is. That system is goofy.
I'm going to loosen up the bolt that holds the fuel filter in place and let the air escape from that point as a start.
I would be interested in how the lines to that hand pump are connected. Is it sucking through both filters, or one is in suction and the other is in pressure?
When you will have tank hose off - plug the inlet with your finger, and use the hand pump. If after a few pumps it will be slow to come back up - there’s no air sucking leaks. If it will continue to go up and down easy - you are sucking air somewhere.
I will look closer at the fuel path tomorrow.
Don’t forget that those lines seal with a rubber grommet called “olives”.. they fit over that space on the steel line and seal inside the hole.. Look inside the hole where the line goes to make sure the olive didn’t flip and is now blocking off the hole.. or a piece of the rubber didn’t shear off and is blocking the hole..(seen it a million times) Just something else to look for..
Isn’t the bolt/screw ON TOP of the double filter head, the one in the center of the 3 in-line screws the air bleed screw.?? Idk I’m just asking..
I used it for bleeding before, but I think the filter in the right has another bleeding screw on top of the housing. Not sure how that hand pump is connected, what in suction and what in pressure.
In my mind: suction should be the line pointing to the tank and pressure should be on the other side.. Sucks from the tank and pushing fuel to the inj pump.??
What I meant, I don’t know how that hand pump is routed. Are filters both on the suction side of it, on pressure side of it, or one on one side, and the other on other. When hand pump not working - it’s all suction all the easy to transfer pump.
It looks to me that u have: The fuel tank.. The hand primer.. The filter/water separator.. The inj pump.. U haven’t found a supply pump have u.?? The inj pump has a built in transfer pump that will pull the fuel in, ONCE the system gets primed without any air leaks..BUT the fuel has to be at the inj pump inlet first.. before it’ll start pulling in fuel.. U can open the bleeder screw on the side of the inj pump and start pumping the hp.. U should see fuel start to fill the filter/h2o separator..& pushing AIR OUT of the bleeder screw.. Once the air is out and u start to see FUEL coming out of the bleeder screw, snug it back up..
There’s no supply/lift pump. That hand pump - is all that is.
I would add that fuel must be at the transfer pump, without bubbles and air pockets in the lines and filters.
TVA and Thepumpguyssc - Thanks again for your continued help. In the parts manual pic below, some of the arrows on the filter show the in and out. I know the other day, I loosened the drain plug on the filter and pumped the hand pump. Fuel squirted out of the filter. I posted below pics from the parts manual that somewhat show the flow of the hand pump. It appears to pull through the filter and push into the sediment bowl. I guess this is why the the pump isn't working with no fuel being present. Bolt #3 is listed as a hand pump plug. I will try loosening that one to see if I can pull fuel using only the hand pump. Bolt #5 is also listed as a plug. Thanks again for your help.
To where the other side of the hand pump connected to? The bottom picture doesn’t match the top. Bottom actually shows correct connection of the hand pump ( in my opinion), the line from that tank comes in to the suction side of the hand pump, and both filters on the pressure side of the pump. I know it’s not clear from that picture, because of that tube looping around the pump - but I kinda remember the location of the bracket for that pump, and I think that’s how it is. But that is not what’s going on the top picture, that pump pulls fuel at least through one filter
But you have pressure sensor in the port 2 ( sediment bowl to), so that one should be under pressure. Although it doesn’t make much sense. Because water separator should come before secondary filter.
What I’m getting at - I had to swap filters around on one of those forklifts, because they were installed in wrong sequence, and it was running like crap
I think that hand pump pulls through both in your set up, what you saw was return from the injection pump, looping around and giving you impulse. I think that looping around is bad set up, because hot fuel should go back to tank for cool down - but that’s how they do things. Cummins does the same on B series with those CAV pumps, only take return from the top of the input shaft.
TVA - thanks for the discussion. I will have to check my setup, but the lower Pic I posted has an "A" and "B" that designated where the pump connections go. It appears to simply push and pull fuel through the sediment bowl tothe filter. The fuel line comes into the sediment collector and the to the filter. It appears to be just like my old tractor confirmation, simple but effective. I will be working on it later this morning and will provide more updates. Thanks again.
Yep, but that’s not the set up you have on this one.
Ok, thanks again
Final update. I have it running! I primed it by taking loose the return fuel line to the tank and plugging another hose into it and closing that hose off. I cracked open the line that feeds from the filter to the injection pump. I puffed air into the tank and forced fuel into the sediment bowl and some into the filter. I then used the pump to finish filling the filter. I closed the line and pumped the hand pump until it wouldn't pump any more. I then turned over the NH 5 or 6 times and then pumped the hand pump again. I repeated several times, and it started. You would think there is a better way to prime it than forcing air into the gas tank! thanks again to TVA and Thepumpguyssc! You guys were very helpful!
Yeah! I think you’re not out of the woods yet, something leaking somewhere ( sucking air). It shouldn’t be that difficult to prime it. We will see how it will restart tomorrow morning
Does that thing makes bigger ruts than the tracked machine? Distance between wheel centers being that long?
Glad u got it going.. Hope it’s one and done..
Yeah, mee too!