We just bought a Massey Ferguson backhoe (unsure of year). It's got a Perkins 3 cylinder diesel. We had it running for a bit, but couldn't get it to engage any drive gears. Tried to load it onto the trailer home with just the rear bucket, but I believe the old battery cables have gave up/developed too much resistance. I'm going to replace them as soon as possible and re bleed the fuel system. All hydraulics worked despite a leak around the pump shaft (where it attaches to the Perkins crankshaft pulley). I've got a service manual on order.
looks like a ford
What kind of transmission do you have there? two pedals on the right, one forward and one reverse? with the gear shift in the middle? Do you get any movement/lurching of the wheels? any grinding if you shift the gear shifter(s) with it reved in forward or reverse? Handy little machine you have there. Welcome, there is plenty of experience here, you might have to wait a bit, but Stock or some of the other experts will get it figured out.
It has the two pedals on the right, with one forward and one reverse, as you said. The gear shift is in the middle and it has another long lever on the right. It doesn't lurch or make any attempts at moving when trying to shift it, nor have we tried to rev it while shifting yet. The previous owner had the whole motor apart at one point, so anything could be loose or missing. The fluid level is good.
Is the long lever on the right a differential lock on the right side of the seat that goes into the axle? or is it a gear shift that goes into the top of the transmission? What's the previous owner's story? did it ever move since he did the work, or did he take the engine apart and the transmission still wouldn't move
I'll have to look at the long lever again, but I'd bet that it's a differential lock. It moves this yellow, funny looking armature that appears to be more towards the differential than the center of the tractor. The previous owner had the motor apart to change out the pistons and sleeves. It has a new fuel distributor and lift pump. He had died of a stroke, so I don't have much in the way of history on the tractor. A neighbor had said that it was used to keep their road in shape and other tasks around the house. His wife said that he had put over $600 into it, but never got to finish. We didn't hear anything from them in regards to the transmission.
Funny looking armature sounds like a diff lock. The tranny could just need the linkages hooked up, flex plate bolts installed, fluid in the converter...
Great little tractors, we used to have one here that was a box blade. The right side pedals are forward and reverse and throttle too. If it won't move, as mentioned you might check fluid levels and engine flex plate bolts, etc. IIRC the shuttle trans uses ATF for the fluid, and checked running.
I think the fluid looks a little yellowish, like regular hydraulic fluid. We didn't check the fluid level when it was running, so I need to do that. You have to full on floor the pedals to get any throttle response from the engine, so the linkage could very well be loose. I'll check the torque converter bolts. Other than using the starter, is there any other way to turn the engine? I'm used to working on motors that have a turnable bolt on the crankshaft. The alternator is the wrong one and the belt needs placed, otherwise I could potentially use those.
I made some progress! I checked the fluid near the differential cover and discovered that it's low. It also has some bubbles in it. The tractor was running, at a low, base idle. I also attempted to shift gears while giving some gas pedal to the tractor. No movement that I could feel. Removing the cover just under the drive pedals revealed this: Traced the wires from those switches up to this blue thing: I then traced three wires up to a toggle switch that looks to switch 12v on and off to the blue apparatus. Two of the wires were yellow; one was white. The previous owner put some mini inline fuses on them and ran them altogether to that toggle. http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/chicorunsfunny/Toys/IMG_20141207_153030_zps0466b341.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/chicorunsfunny/Toys/IMG_20141207_153004_zpse431a63f.jpg I may have also found the fill plug on my torque converter? http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/chicorunsfunny/Toys/IMG_20141207_154939_zps85adadf9.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/chicorunsfunny/Toys/IMG_20141207_154935_zpsd82a3298.jpg
There may be a rectangularish plate on the bottom side under the torque converter (bell housing behind engine). If you take that off you can see the torque converter and turn it easily by hand. But with that electrical setup, I'd guess you'll find your problem without getting into anything internal.
I got my manual in today. I don't think it's going to help me with the electrical setup too much. I need to get some pics of someone's stock setup. I'm thinking that those three wires running to the toggle shouldn't all be hot at the same time.
That's power shuttle not instant reverse. Most problems with that trans is electrical. Uses ** permatran fluid. There was a forward and reverse switch at the pedals and inline diodes up at the solenoid. You can shoot 12 volts to the solenoid. One side is forward one reverse. Have the drive tires off the ground when you do that.
That's power shuttle not instant reverse. Most problems with that trans is electrical. Uses ** permatran fluid. There was a forward and reverse switch at the pedals and inline diodes up at the solenoid. You can shoot 12 volts to the solenoid. One side is forward one reverse. Have the drive tires off the ground when you do that.
I don't think they should all be hot either, but it's hard to figure out what's supposed to be going on with that toggle switch. Obviously that's "aftermarket/cobbled in", so you can either try to restore it to original and get rid of the cobbleing, or try to figure out what that was supposed to fix that is broken with the original.
Awesome. Thanks for the electrical schematic. I might try pulling one of the mini fuses to cut power to one of the three wires. I'll report back on what I find with all this new info
I tried pulling the mini fuses, and that didn't seem to make a difference. The one white, skinny wire is carrying voltage to both switches down by the pedals. Pulling it's fuse killed voltage to the switches. Both sides of those foot switches are powered simultaneously with 12 volts (all four wires/teeth). The two other wires (yellow ones) with mini fuses didn't seem to power anything. I tried to find voltage at the big blue thing on the steering column, but got nothing. When you are referencing the solenoid, are you referring to this big blue brick looking thing? It has six teeth, three on either side yet I only have four total wires running to it (the blue brick).
The blue thing is the solenoid. Three terminals on each side. One side is forward the other reverse. You only use two terminals on each side, one hot, one ground. I don't remember which two terminals to use but you can ground one and power another and figure it out. You should be able to hear the solenoid when you get the correct two terminals.
Sweet. I should have this thing moving pretty soon then. I'll attempt to wire it up this weekend.
I applied 12 volts to the top terminals on the blue solenoid and nothing happened. I believe the lower ones are grounds. The wire would start to melt if I put it there (at least on one side of the solenoid). The side terminals didn't do anything either. I opened the fill plug on the transmission and found that the fluid appeared to be low. I could see gears and such. Not sure if that's the norm. What fluid there was had foam/bubbles in it and was yellow (like the fluid in the transfer case). I saw a small square plate on the side of the transmission (passenger). I was thinking about removing that.
I took a quick look at the diagram that MFIHCAT posted. The blue thing "Vicners" is the solenoid for the forward/ reverse, it should have "No" power at the 4 connections when the machine is in neutral, ( pedals not depressed). Use a test light and verify that, ground the clip end of the test light to negative on battery,, when you push the forward pedal, only one side of the solenoid will have power, ( the forward side ) you should be able to hear or feel it click open to let fluid through. The same applies for the reverse pedal but the opposite side of the solenoid will now have power. This will also tell you which ones are power and which ones are ground. The power for the solenoid comes from your ignition switch but from reading your post's, it seems "he" has installed an anti-theft switch in between the feed for the solenoid.
I'm not familiar with the 30 but other **'s have a different fluid in the torque converter than the transmission. The transmission fluid can be fine and the torque converter can be low enough not to do anything. On a 50 the torque converter level is a hex plug sticking at an angle out of the side of the transmission toward the front.
Are you sure thats not just a drain plug for the torque.
No, I'm not sure, I'm going from memory. But if you know the 30e, is the torque converter, reverser/shuttle, and gear transmission all the same sump or different?
I know on the MF60 , there the same, usually the torque will get it's fluid from the trans sump, when you drain the tranny fluid allot of people forget to drain the torque, contaminating the new oil. Also, not all torques can be drained.
I don't think I have a spot to drain my torque converter, though I need to inspect it further. There is a small rectangular plate on the right hand side of the tractor, and that's about all I can find for a drain location. I made a big discovery today though. The switches are both sending 12 volts to the blue Vickers solenoid when depressed. The left hand side is for reverse and the right hand side operates forwards. My solenoid, however, is not clicking. I am low on trans fluid, so I am going to try and find some to put in at Tractor Supply. Permatran III I also located a few electrical solenoids that were not hooked up at all: It runs to the blue solenoid: http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/chicorunsfunny/Toys/IMG_20141218_150254_zps779120b9.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb158/chicorunsfunny/Toys/IMG_20141218_150305_zps6ecf9139.jpg And another. I think it may be a temperature sender on the filter area:
That sounds right to me, the solenoid might not make a sound even though it's working, or the ground side might be switched. You can check the continuity (resistance) of the solenoids, or check them with a known hot and ground. Either of the pictures could be a temp sender or pressure sender, neither looks like a solenoid. Definitely get the fluid level correct before trying anything else.
We put almost a whole 5 gallons of trans fluid in, because we couldn't see any fluid from the fill plug. It started leaking said fluid out of the brake actuator. So, I guess the trans shares fluid with the rear axle and brakes? Still didn't move though
Not all torques have a drain plug, but if you look under the tranny, you may have an inspection cover you can remove, if you do get to see the torque, you may have to turn it to get to the drain plug, there is only one, once turned and facing downwards, you can then access it to drain. You should be able to hear or feel the solenoid "click" when it activates. Those other two pictures you posted look like temp sensors.
Update: Got it to move!!!! Found a page in the service manual regarding testing the blue solenoid. I used a brass drift to drive these "solenoid pins" into the solenoid. With the tractor off/yet power to the solenoids, pressing the accelerator pedal made the pins release (or come back out again). I performed this on both the forward and reverse side. Afterwards, we cranked the tractor and it went into gear/moved. Now, I only have a few issues to deal with - blowby, oil pressure n' leaks. I'd like to pull the engine and do a full rebuild, but I'm not sure I can get my dad to come to terms with that. I may have to wait until he grenades the engine.
If the former owner spent $600 on the engine that sounds about right for a rebuild kit. Does the engine look like it's been apart recently? or maybe the kit is still sitting in the garage? Are the leaks from the engine? that sure sounds like either the engine wasn't touched or it wasn't done right.
It has a new injector pump, new pistons and sleeves, and a new head gasket on it. It's leaking from the hard lines run along the side of the block among some other places, probably. I believe he had the oil pan off at one point.
Does anyone know how to remove the hydraulic pump from the 30e? My dad removed what appears to be the front half of it, but we need to get the other part of the pump off to put a new water pump/alt belt on.
What do you mean by "front half"? You have a pressure line and suction line and two bolts that hold pump to front axle housing frame. Sometimes the pump won't slide out of shaft when the splines are half worn. A couple long pry bars should get it. When you get pump out of shaft, the shaft screws out of drive plate on front engine pulley. The pump drive shaft is left hand thread into engine drive plate.
Sweet. It was pretty simple. We haven't replaced the belt yet. I have got a new job, so I've neglected working on the backhoe for a good while. I discovered that it's missing three or four bolts in the cover plate, just around the crankshaft pulley. Other than leaks, it's moving around fine.
hi can send me pictures about the valve vicker or #part number complete ? and some better pictures on the pedals I have problems to know how built the harness if you tinking sale parts let me know mostly the harnes for the transmission Im restoring one but to much problems to find the harness if can helpme may be I can built my harness just I need the route of the harness let me know tanks
Hey MonkBonk any chance you can see a part number on one of those switchs that the forward and reverse pedal use to activate the blue solinoid?