The neighbor of the new property I acquired said that years/decades ago when it was a sand extraction the company dumped old oil barrels and other stuff in one of the small ponds and it's contaminated. No other ponds, just that one. They would also like to purchase half of my land that the pond is on. Should also note that they value the property at about half the actual value. They think half is worth $175K which I know is ridiculous. They based this on the property listed for $400K a couple years ago for a very short time like either 2 weeks or 2 month's. Talking with the former owners, the property was taken off the market because it was way under-valued. It was appraised at $550K in 2024 and $910K in March 2025. They said the $910K was too high and realistically the property is worth about $650K. If it was prime farmland would be worth about $1.5mil. I need to do an Evironmental Impact Assesment as part of the rezoning application. I'm a little worried that pond is contaminated but also think the neighbor's dad is a little pushy. I think I'm right to be skeptical of his claims but am worried if part of the EIA involves talking to neighbors about past activities on the property. Should I just play dumb until it's determined if a phase 2 EIA is required? I could be on the hook for cleanup. The sand extraction was probably 45 years ago or more.
Your neighbor is trying to scam you into selling him the property at a 1/4 the value. It’s not a super fund site, your nice gravel pit owners, would not do that to you. I would take the opportunity to talk with them and mention the barrels and the sand pit and ask their opinion. You are in the big boy pond now. For that kind of money, people will lie, cheat and sometimes kill.
In NYS the DEC would try and go after the person that put the barrels there. At least that's how it was when I was looking to purchase a property years ago. An environmental guy told me not to purchase, as the DEC could possibly go after the current owner for part of the cleanup.
I sorta had some very questionable stuff on my property that the previous owner and my father had around. I made damn sure to get rid of what I could and bury the rest before attempting variances and permits for building my house. I knew that being on a state river and having to pay by the square foot for development, the DES would be crawling up my anal orifice.
dumped oil does not hide well. I think they are BSing you hard.
Unless the water on the top of the pond is actively on fire, I can't possibly think of any reason to not let sleeping dogs lie. You just bought the property, you can't know anything of what happened there years ago. There's no reason to speculate. Why would the neighbor want it, if he thinks there's contamination? I don't think you will ever recoup the money and heartache you are going to have, building a track. If you really wanted a track you should have kept your old property. But that ship has sailed. Sell this piece to a developer and sleep at night. I wouldn't sell anything to the "neighbor". He can kick rocks.
Let it burn, cleaning out the oil!
I don't know what laws exist there or else where, but around here it's tough to buy land without a environmental check, especially if there was a business on said property that possibly could have had chemicals or other contaminants. * A piece here in town a few years back where a nationally known coffee chain built, had the dirt workers come in and start rooting around. By noon all work stopped, they found a 10,000 gal fuel tank from a old gas station from the 50's, alot of strutting around with hands on hips--the original owner was still alive, and guess what? That gas station was torn out in the late 70's--but they left one tank because it was a leaker and didn't want to excavate any further, patted the ground down like a squirrel hiding a nut, and everyone went--Shush, a Sargent Shultz type deal.
The biggest problem with the new county is contrary to what it says on their own website. They aren't providing any guidance. They have no provisions even if I wanted to have 1 special event. There are at least 4 other counties that have allowed a certain number of events per year and there are a lot more neighbors in close proximity. They tell me one thing instead of telling me everything I need. They did say I can have friends come and ride and there's nothing anybody can do about it. So I go to a club meeting and invite people to come out but can't have have an event. 20 or more riders show up and can ride wherever they want as long as they stay on my property. There's no incentive or reason for me to design a track that limits impacts on the nearest properties or spend a lot of time and money cleaning up the property. If I get it approved is another story and I'll work with the neighbors. The current taxes on the property is $80/yr. If I have 10 or more riders show up just to ride a few times is the county going to suddenly limit how many friends I can have come out? I could potentially have 50 or more friends show up. Being the property has a lot of sand I could have 100 riders show up in the spring when anywhere else is still drying out. If I'm approved and had 100 riders I could limit how how many ride at a time and also limit it to a designated area/track. As for the neighbor it's the dad, who lives in a seperate home after they subdived their 20 or 30 acres, that is the pushy one. The son is pretty laid back but I think just going along with his dad's BS. I asked why they wanted the property and they said they'd just like more property. They asked if a friend of theirs could cut the grass since he cuts theirs. I said sure but I didn't realize it was getting baled. Still OK as it cleans up that side of the property. I guess in hindsight I should have made them pay some for the bales. They said 4 but I think there was 7 or 8. Maybe not the best hay but bales sell for about $165/ea. Maybe this was a precursor of more trying to manipulate me or deceive me. Of course he said the North side (my side) of the property was much better. The guy has a lot of money. He claimed when the property was listed for sale a couple years ago it was because the gravel pit was liquidating because they needed money. That's absolute BS. Also claimed there were no takers at the $400K asking price and figured half was worth $175K. More utter and complete BS! The listing was pulled because it was way under valued. Why didn't he make an offer for the whole parcel??? He used to have an auto wrecking business on his property. Maybe if anyone was dumping used oil or containers it was him? I've made mistakes with people and got taken advantage of but have also learned a few things. Some people when you analyze how they act and how they talk you can just tell they're trying to pull a fast one and swindle you. What I'm worried about is if an EIA involves talking to neighbors and he mentions a potential contaminated area. I kind of think there would be a rash of sick or dead wildlife if a pond was contaminated. There's heavy bush on the back portion where the pond is. Apparently he wants to put a cabin in there. I wonder if he wants the property for hunting?? There is a hunting guide who is the only authorized person allowed on the property. Obviously with a hunting stand and people legally on the property he'd be trespassing if he was hunting. He has a side by side and does drive on the property which is also trespassing but if I put a stop to it he for sure would make things very difficult for me. I don't have a problem with being a good neighbor. I just expect the same in return. I'm going to talk with the gravel pit. Maybe they've had an EIA in the past. They might have a firm they deal with that could help me with the rezoning and Roadside Development too. If I can get approved I think could make decent enough money it's worthwhile doing. A bigger event could bring over 200 riders. I think I could average over $1000 a week and have 3 or 4 bigger events a year. I'd be happy with that.
Yes, I think so too!
Oil is organic fertilizer, so if there are no dead spots from too much oil you are good to go.
I'm trying to find out if the rezoning can be subject to an EIA and approved plan for the approach for the provincial transportation dept. If not approved I'd rather lose $7K than $15K or more. I'm going to contact another firm and see if they would be any cheaper. $8K is better than $16K but still seems like a lot of money when I have a draft of my application. I'm hoping it just needs a little tweaking. It's a bloody money racket. The counties website says they will help guide you through the process but that's not what I'm finding. As for potential contamination I don't know if there would be anything real noticeable after 45 or so years unless it was especially bad. On satellite pics. it just looks like a green pond. I'd guess the pond is smaller than 40x80 feet. I'd also assume it has a bunch of sediment over the years that would cover any contamination.
Oil is lighter than water, oil came from the ground and goes back into it.
Yeah the crazy weirdness about something that is so natural to the earth. And then they will put petroleum jelly on their cracked lips. And baby oil on their babies. Its all a just wow thing.
Do NOT “play dumb” in a way that could later be construed as willful blindness. Casually asking neighbors “Hey, anything I should know about the property?”
Playing dumb was maybe the wrong term. I talked to the former owners of the property and there is nothing in the file concerning contamination. They purchased the property in 1991 from a relative who had it for 8 or 9 years. Nothing was done on the property in that time. The company CEO did say if there was any significant amount oil spilled or dumped it would be very noticeable. If a phase 1 ESA is required should indicate if any soil should be further tested. Believing something a neighbor said, that also wants to buy half the property, I need to take with a big grain of salt. Why would I say something when there's no other evidence to support it and a phase 2 ESA is considerably more expensive. A lot of money could be thrown away if there's no contamination found. I'm sure there are people that would make life extremely difficult for a neighbor that caused them to spend a lot of money because of a bogus claim your property was contaminated. People have been threatened and even murdered over land issues although it's not anything I would ever consider. I could certainly make a lot of noise close to the property line at the worst time of day. I take it and so did the former owners as a tactic to purchase the property at a reduced price. The other even bigger question is why would the neighbor want the property if it's contaminated. They could potentially be charged for the clean up if I sold it as is with no conditions.
If he ever asks about buying again you say increase the price over market value because he said there is oil there
Interestingly I got an e-mail from a firm/guy that I might use for the rezoning. He talked to the county and they said I don't require an Environmental Impact Assessment. He is going to get confirmation in an e-mail from the county. Curious why the other firm brought it up since they apparently also talked to the county. They said an ESA would wipe out the savings of the rezoning application. The latest firm is at the top of my list right now. I'm getting one more quote from a firm that sounds promising. Looking at $10.5K now which is much better than $16.2K but still quite a bit considering the county also needs $7K and the upgraded approach could be $8K. I think I'll get sponsorship and could be fairly busy though. Just the naming rights to the park could be $5K for a set period of time. Other parts of the park/track could get naming rights too. Starting line, finish line, feature jumps, etc. Just to put a sign up could be $1000. My friend is going to talk with the manager of a big dealership to see if manufactures and distributors of moto gear would be interested in sponsoring a new and better MX park closer to the big municipalities. The guy who talked to the county also said I can use the fact that there was little opposition to my rezoning. It's a factual account of reaching out to the neighbours to get their input as is suggested by the county. He thinks I have a good chance of getting approved.
Maybe I missed something but wouldn't it have been zoned commercial from the sand and gravel company? They were the previous owners weren't they?
Way back when it was a sand extraction. I wondered the same thing about the original zoning. The gravel pit that traded with me bought it from a relative but that was way after it was a sand pit. The property wasn't really used for anything. At one point years ago there was a small scrap metal operation and a deaf man lived in a small house that is now mostly collapsed. I think it just became zoned as agricultural although it is very poor farmland. Things are so much more complicated now. You need specific zoning for anything that differs even slightly from current zoning. It's just a big money racket if you ask me. I can understand the county wanting to know what you plan on doing on your property but charging $7K to do their jobs seems ridiculous. It shouldn't be based on if you have deep pockets. It goes against the whole idea of being open to diversity. Yeah, if you have enough money we can consider it. It should be the same as the last county I was in. Council looks at your proposal, considers neighboring property owners input and decides if it's good for the county or not. They also gave input that the property was a good location for an off road park and recommended I apply to get it rezoned to a direct control district so I didn't have to deal with permits every year or someone trying to shut it down after it was approved and all the work was done. An idiot county manager did force me to pay $1500 to upgrade the road. I was the first person in the county to ever have to pay for upgrading a public road. The rezoning and development permits were under $1000. This was still far cheaper than dealing with this new county. With the required approach upgrades it could cost me $25K! Hopefully I can get a lot of sponsorship. It's a good location and won't be affected by rain like the old track.