I run a horse boarding facility and we're making the switch to large squares. I'm in the market for a machine and would like some advice from current users regarding power, reliability, value etc. Really, any input would be appreciated. Daily use: lift a 800-1600lb bale from the stack to the feed trailer. (10minute task) Monthly use: Grounds maintenance, Manure clean up(dragging paddocks and loading into tandem axle dump trucks) fixing drainage, post holes, shuffling dirt/manure piles around, snow removal etc. Surface: Hard packed clay, road base, some grass, mud pit in the rain/melted snow. Annual hours: 300ish hrs Concerns: My biggest concern is ground disturbance. I demoed a new A770 today and it seems like the perfect fit, low ground disturbance without the worry of track maintenance but then you get shafted with the SJC controls.. I really prefer hand/foot like the standard or ACS. The way I see it, in my price range 20-35k my options are either T190, T300, A300. T190- JUST enough for what I need but might be underpowered digging? (when doing dirt work in the past I wouldn't want anything smaller than S250 power/traction wise) Save on fuel? Standard/ACS controls available. T300- seems like a marginal difference in price up from the T190 for much more machine. Thirsty, will be running a light load most of time. Short run times, Bad for the engine? Track maintenance? A300- seemingly perfect machine. Yes more power than I need and AWS has more moving parts than skid but doesn't seem as bad as track maintenance... until I found out they only come with SJC controls.. What year were these issues sorted out? Should I even be worried? Is the short run times going to be an issue for these larger 300 machines? Thanks in advance for any help!
ive run a A300 i fell in love with it. My uncle does landscaping and we go in no damage to grass good power i like it a lot.
The more I look, I think it boils down to T300 vs A300. If the A300's were easier to find and didn't only come in SJC I'm not sure I'd be looking at track machines. Monster76 did you run turf tires on yours?
I'd say if you can demo one I know I liked it and when it comes time for me to get a skid steer I'd def look into it. As far as track machines I can't really comment as I don't use them to much only track machine I used was an asv and I didn't like it. And no we didn't have turf tires
The S250 I have we use on the farm, the farmer boards horses as well, they have about 30 horses (not sure if that is alot?) It's worked fine for moving manure, hay, feed, etc. Though it does mess up the ground if it's wet, though it would take some real nasty muck to get it stuck. I looked at a few tracked machines in that size but they were just too pricey for me (35-40k used). I talked to a friend that has one and he said the tracks are fairly high maintenance vs just having a machine with tires. I have been thinking about getting a track kit for my machine, they run about $2300. As far as loading into dump trucks, measure the sideboard height. My machine really can't load into my truck very well. My sides are about 6 high, so about 10ft off the ground. It will lift about that high, but it's a pain. I have use of another dumptruck with only 3.5ft sides and it's much easier to load.
As long as you are looking at early K series or newer T190's, you will not be underpowered. And it will flat out SMOKE any wheel skid its own size or slightly larger(S250) at digging/leveling tasks. But from the info you've given, I don't think the extra costs of a CTL or an AWS SS is justified in your case. IMO, I would go with the S300.
Thanks for the input guys. I'm honestly starting to get frustrated with making a decision. If I could find a clean 08+ low hour A300 with cab in my area for about 30k I'd jump on it but these things are hard to find. My service guy says for 300hrs a year farm use, a track machine with good/new undercarriage it will last me 2000hrs or more and not to worry about things falling apart. He says guys with low service hour issues are running them hard in deep gravel, pavement etc which is hard on the tracks/idlers/sprockets etc. Makes sense? When doing dirt work or plowing its not like I'm on the clock.. if projects take a little longer I guess its not the end of the world. My biggest concern is stability at max height when stacking hay. Square bales are usually 800-1200lbs each and I'll be double or triple lifting them so I can stack 6 high. (3 on the ground, and stacking another three on top would be ideal) That means 3000lbs about 16ft in the air. Is a new t190 going to be able to handle this? My dealer has a 2012 T190, A91, ACS, 600+ hours for $38,400.00. Seems high? I'm not sure I need something this new but I know I can find something nice in the 25-30k range. Clean T300's seem to be about 30-35k and A300s if I can find them, are about the same. I'll look up the S300 but here in colorado the spring and early fall snow usually turn everything into a big soupy mess. I cant help but think a regular skid is going to destroy everything if the ground isn't frozen. The new smaller JCB telehandlers seem like an interesting concept but run over $50k used so out of my budget. Stressing me out as this isn't a small purchase for us.
A T190 is too small to regularly lift 3 bales to full height. My track loader is a Mustang branded Takeuchi TL250 which I bought to do dirt work, which it does well. Tracks are far superior for high tractive effort jobs, especially in less than ideal conditions. The downside to tracks is their higher operating costs, which I guess to be around $5-6/hr on my machine.
How long would you personally say track/idler/sprocket life expectancy would be from a t300 only used for unloading/stacking hay, scraping manure from 4 acres of paddocks and the occasional light dirt work? Its only a 10acre property so not really traveling too much. Harshest surface is compacted roadbase. everything else is grass or topsoil.
The track machines are more productive in digging/grading type operations than any wheeled machine hands down. However the jobs you listed don't really speak to a CTL. I am sure your Spring weather is much like ours, its wet for a month or so and then it dries up. You will incur costs with a CTL that you really cant offset with higher productivity, because productivity does not add to your bottom line (as it does to dirt contractors). There are no doubt you would have certain tasks that would be easier in a CTL, but overall actually it will cost you more money. I have both a CTL and a wheeled machine (TR320 and 465 CASE machines). Any job that I do with the CTL that my 465 could do equally as well, is costing me money. The CTLs are louder, rougher riding and not great in the Winter and lastly cost more to own and operate. They make great sense if your making money with them, they don't make as much sense if your not. The A-series BC are pretty cool. Again though they are complex (read expensive to fix), and perhaps for a homeowner unnecessarily so. These, like CTL's have some definite advantages, but your application really does not make the most of what it offers. I would go with a wheeled machine, S250-S300 if you want a BC.
I own an '06 A300. So far it has over 3,000 hours. I have had issues with it but none would be considered exclusive to the A300 (but probably exclusive to Bobcat). It is the same machine as the S300, save for the steering. I have not had any issues with the steering system. I have had issues with the bearings in the chain case (same as the S300), the hydraulic fan went out (again, same as the "S" series), and I had issues with the hand controls. The early models, '06 and older, had issues with the control handles. These can be identified by the round base of the handle. Square base units are upgraded and, to my knowledge, do not have reliability issues. In my opinion I think that a skid steer would be fine for your application. I agree, with most, that the added expense of the tracked undercarriage is not justified. The "A" series machines are wonderful to work with once you get used to them. They too come with an added up front expense, that if buying new, would not be justified for your application, IMO. If buying used you may find them much closer in price to the "S" series. If I had to choose between an "S" or an "A", all things being equal, I would buy the "A" without a doubt. I'm not quite sure how important it is to not "tear things up" in the spring. You will have an impact on the ground, in spring melt, regardless of which machine you choose. The track machines will just work better in the slop. You can run snow chains in the spring. This will help you keep from getting stuck but will impact the ground more than just tires alone. Once things have begun to dry you can re-grade with the skid. Are you working in a gravel yard or out in the pasture? I would think that the hay would be put up long before spring melt. What have you been using up until now? I would imagine that it has had an impact on the ground as well. The only other advantage that I see, with the "A" series, is that it will probably be a little more stable (less "jerky") when maneuvering. IMO this can be overcome with experience in the seat. My A300 can lift 3,200# pallets onto, and off of, a flat bed semi trailer, and can load my tandem axle dump truck (with dirt, etc.). I would think that the S300 will do the same. Although I'm not sure if either one could lift 3,200# to full height. Furthermore, you will have to "self level" as you lift. This will be hard with such a heavy load (the hydraulics tend to be less responsive to fine movement when reaching full capacity). Is this stacking something that you did when you were demo'ing the A770? Did it perform this task well? If you must lift (3) 1,200# bales at once, I'm afraid that none of the machines, that you have listed here, may be the right choice. Be sure to use it for all of the tasks you have in mind before making any purchase.
Some of those tasks say Kubota R520 to me. You may have to go a little older than 08 but they should give you a long service life. You will like it better than a skid when it comes to frequent entry and exit of the machine.