So after spending most of my time on the brand new d4LGP. I finish graded 7 building pads in two days with it. I loved it. However this morning i got a surprise. Let me tell y'all about it So this morning ( yes sunday morning ) I rode out to the job about a half hour away to see what kind of effect the rain we're getting is having on the job. I get there and i see our two lowboys at the bottom of the hill with what looked like a brand new dozer on them. And our my boss/owner standing on the lowboy. Looked like he was writing on it to me. So when i get closer i noticed that it is a BRAND new D8T. I knew we had spots on this job and others that had 40' cuts and big fills. But i just figured we would keep running scrapers/haul trucks. So he calls me off to the side and says " Michael listen, your young, but im not sure that any of our other guys could have built a 7 foot tall 114 footlong wall without ever doing it before. Doing it in two weeks. And finishing a job that i bidded for a month's worth of work in three weeks. With two men. That tells me alot. So now i have something else for you to get used too. Read the back of that machine. " So i look and i start laughing there on the back of the machine and on the hood read in cat colors " YoungOne " haha. He told me that he would help me get used to the bigger machine, and i will try and get you guys pics. He told me to go on home and get some rest, while he and another guy assembled it. ( had to haul without rops blade and ripper. ) I'm not sure why. I'm not a trucker So i was wondering. Since i have never ran anything bigger than a d6 dozer stripping topsoil. What precautions should i take before running a bigger dozer? Safety, i'm sure there are " do's and do not's. " with larger dozers. And i have never used a ripper before. So tips there would be great too. And i know some of you guys either run them NOW or have in the past. So dont be shy I just really dont want to mess this up. He's giving me the oppurtunity of a lifetime. For a 19 year old. -Michael-
There is nothing different to running a larger dozer compared to a smaller dozer. The only difference is, it is bigger. One thing to watch out for is backing up that it is harder to see. Watch out for rocks so that you don't back over them......or the occasional pick-up. Oh, and make sure you keep the blade full. :drinkup
I imagine it will take some getting use not having a 6 way blade. Also remember to get a bigger shovel, them tracks are gonna take a bit longer to shovel out at the end of the night. Oh and don't forget that you don't have to do it all with the big machine, its ok to get off of it once in a while and use the little guy for the finish and critical backfilling. Good luck and Congrats on working for someone who is giving you the tools you need to make you a better operator. OH and having your name on your machine = priceless. :drinkup 11 years of dump truck driving and I am yet to have an employer put my name on a trucks door... then again I would say about half of them (macks) :Banghead I would have been ashamed to have my name on the door anyway. ointhead
What a great opportunity! There are lots of neat features on these dozers to get the best production and economy and you should get to know them as quickly as possible. I would take the operators manual and read it cover to cover... you should know how everything works and what everything does, be aware of how to check oil levels, know the correct maintenance periods although presumably the dealer will send someone out to check over the machine and show you how everything works and answer any questions.
And never let your ego control you.
Thanks guys for your replies. I want to learn, if i can't learn i dont want to work for this man. I've told him that from day one, i get fussed at atleast once a day. And i ask him what i could have did better, ask questions. And try and go home and read the plans for the job were on " funny papers " i'm excited. But i want to learn safely. And progress slowly:d -Michael-
Hey Youngone.... Just get up there and have fun! What I see happening is that you are thinking or "tripping" on this new dozer too much. You are your own worst enemy.... So try not to worry about everything or everybody. This 8 ain't much different than the 4. Same thing, only different... And like Wulf said, take the book home and read it! Even if you have to cut the chord it's tied to, do it! A dozer is still a dozer. But on these electronic newer ones, if you don't know how to set it up properly you're still in the dark ages. Have fun!
D8's Youngone, Like the other guys are saying, the real difference between a D8 and a D4 or D6 is the size. I'm sure others will agree it's actually a little easier to grade with the bigger dozers. The D6 you ran stripping, did it have a SU blade or PAT? When it comes to ripping, should you need to, always rip in a straight line, try not to turn at all. If you get into some serious rock try to leave some fine or loose material under ya when you start ripping again, better traction and all. :Banghead The blade, ROPS, and ripper probably had to come off for your state's regulations and transportation requirements, esp. on a Sunday. What part of VA are you in? Oh, and please show us some photos of that new machine:usa
My post from another post on "proper angle" riper angle. Also I didn't see said here and FYI do not turn while ripping. One more thing I don't know if there is any truth to or not. I have been told with the angled seat on the bigger dozers green operators tend to run the right side of the blade lower, and they only get half the wear out of the cutting edges. Now I have seen this on dozers and the operators weren't that good that were on them, so it could be true what do you guys think?
All too often these days, it seems. I'm not a blade hand and have no idea what to tell you, but I did want to wish you luck -- it sounds like an awesome opportunity, and I'm glad you're able to pick up the finer qualities of what's otherwise a brutish machine so quickly. Best of luck -- take lots of pics!
Hey YoungOne Whats all the equipment this comany has? Sounds like he has money to burn. And please post some pics too
Thanks guys for your replies. Right now we have d4lgp,d4h,d5,d6 ( currently not working, blew headgasket )D8 T CAT325 CAT 345 Deere 270 LC. 2 d250e articulated trucks. And scrapers we're borrowing from a friend of his, im not sure on what they are. i just stay out of the way. These machines are spread out on six jobs rightnow. And we have one big earthmoving job, and many more coming up. Their's only ten of us, but we arent always on the same job. but most of the equipment does get used every day. Three of our guys just pour our concrete. He might be hiring soon. Well the way he was talking he pay this dozer off a year aheadof time. We're doing pretty good. Imma try and get pics. btw four of those six jobs will finish up this week weather permitting. -Michael-
Having posted already on your other thread,then finding this i won't say what i'm think right now.You need to read the post the guys are putting up there also!!!!!!:cool2 With that said i know where you live you have lots of rock and being equipped with ripper mud might not be that big of problem for now at least. So just don't drive it off into a mud hole thinking you will get pulled out with the D4 that is the only machine on the job at that time.Boss might be using some paint remover,sooner then you think. Just keep doing what your doing ,but be a little more caution,along the slopes and on the rock ledges. Also remember everyone is expendable,so be careful and treat it like it is yours unless the boss tells you different. Not everyday you get to break in a new machine now days especialy.Good luck:usa
thats awsome man i got mine when i had just turned 19 to not sitting in it for six months i can tell u it kick that d65ex that i ran my frist year right in the shorts. see guy not all us young guys are lazy bums that u think we are lol
Your boss must think alot of you to put you on a new machine.im sure it wont take long to get use to the size.And like you have said you cant go wrong from asking questions
How to??????????? Hi, YoungOne. Welcome to the forum and congratulations on the new machine. Most of what you need to know that can be told to you has already been posted. Here are a few more points. ASK it to do a good day's work. Don't try to bully it into doing a good day's work. In other words, learn to understand how the way you are operating is affecting the machine and don't do the things that cause it harm or excessive wear. It is your attitude rather than your aptitude that has gotten you this far. You appear to have a great chance. Don't blow it by blowing your attitude out the window and relying on your aptitude. You operate bigger machines even more by the seat of your pants than you do with smaller ones 'cos you can see less of what you are doing and what is around you. Learn to read and trust what your butt is telling you. With regard to safety, the limits of the machine are basically what you feel safe doing with it. This will change as you gain confidence and a 'feel' for the machine. After a D4 and D6, the size will throw you for a while. By the end of the week, I'd reckon you will be purely surprised at how much that 'huge' machine has 'shrunk'. Learn to use that pedal to the right of the brake (the 'softly' pedal), especially when ripping in rock. Not only will it save the machine a beating, it will save you one too. When bulk pushing, try to work in 'slots' to minimise spillage around the ends of the blade. Especially when pushing downhill, it is possible to break out a bladefull and drop it in a pile, then back up and get a second bladefull and take them both to the fill/disposal area. Be adventurous but not stupidly so. Experimenting is the best way to find what you can and can't do with any machine. I scored a brand new Cat D8H dozer when I was 26. I had it for a whole week. Then they made me a foreman. LOL. Hope some or all of the above helps.
My first day. thanks again for your replies. Thanks deas! So i got to the job about an hour early this morning to read up on the book. Check all the fluids. And low and behold the Cat Rep was already THERE haha. So he showed me the ropes etc. So then the boss man shows up and tells me " You'll do fine, your working by yourself today no scrapers running around you, no artics just you. Enjoy it." Then he showed me our 17 foot cut that ran over 75 yard long 50 yards wide. He just told me to push it to the bottom of the hill in a neat pile. " YES SIR " And then i seen him get in his truck and i'm thinking to myself " good he's gone. " Well he sits in his truck out of the way, and watches me for the first two hours. so i started thinking about what i needed to do. And decided to break it up into three-four pushes. To save time i would push the shortest distance i could with a full blade. Over about a 25 yards or so. And then do that all the way across. Then push it to the bottom of hill. Until i made all my pushes, and i was ready for another cut. Well the end result was. I was 5 hundreths high. And didnt have the guts to try and get close with the 8 so i left it like that. Called him up and he said he was happy with that. To go strip the rest of the job. I LOVE STRIPPING. It seems like this bulldozer doesnt want to stop, i never spun the tracks all day. Which made me happy. Fueled her up at the end of the day. Told her thank you. And with another glance back. Went home. So is that kind of what i should do? She only used a half a tank of full today. Which i'm not sure is good or not. But i'll always make sure i have a tank full. If needed. Visibility is what i noticed first. The superintendents truck didnt get so close to me this morning I did hit a grade stake though oh well. Re-drive it move on right? Didnt get to use the ripper today i had the urge just to stick it in the ground anyways. But didnt. No rock -Michael- Thanks!!!
The grade stake was it fill or cut and how much was it.Might want to see if they will offset the grade stake if you have deep cut.Then reset it when you get closer to grade. Or was it just a didn't see it thing Sounds like your getting use to it.Just stick the ripper in the ground and try it,Never know you might find a lonely boulder just before you get cut on grade that need dozed out and buried before the fill get up.Better to get it put in the slope then your work area. Good luck
Yeah i started to get the hang of it. The grade stake was in the fill and it was 8 and a half foot fill. So i had to get off and roll it all the time. Which sucked but hey beats paying a man to be down there all day. When he can be off doing something more productive. So i put in my foot lift all the way across and rolled it. Takes half the time to roll it as it does to blade it anyways. Yeah i tried asking them to offset them. " okay " yeah needless to say they dont. Dumb Question.. When do i know the dozer is pushing too much? Or too Little? ( if im bulk pushing or filling ) -Michael-
You didn't happen to take any pics did ya?
not yet sorry. my phone sucks, and my digital camera got run over a while back on the job.
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Hock D9G! :drinkup
alright!! hey toung one i am 23 and moveing up to bigger and bigger iron is super cool. dont worry just get on that thing and go for it like alot of other guys said the bigger the dozer is the easier it is to run and ussally on bigger dozers you wont have to do too much fine tunnig! as far as ripping some say it helps to go against the grain, in other words if your pushing n. to s. rip e, to w. and always when ever possible keep your blade pretty low so when your watching your rippers you dont run over any huge rocks. some things you probably already know: dont turn when pushing/ ripping, dont back up to far, dont push up hill unless you can help it, try not to track too very far, dont spin your tracks, and try not to back drag a dozer hand is always pushing, if your 8 is new see if when you take the cuttin edges off there should still be paint on the back side. congrats!! p.s. try to make our generation look good
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums dozerman28! :drinkup
Good grade checkers and stake setter makes the company money.Doesn't hurt to carry a good eyelevel and rod with you and learn how to use it,to check things.If the boss stops and ask you what your doing tell him your making him money by not moving his dirt twice! Usually if your just push dirt ,normally you can't push to much,unless you spinning ,dozers stalls,or the front of the machine is is high in the air running on the rear idlers,might be some of the indications. If your in rock,make sure rocks aren't rolling over the back of the blade getting wedged between blade and lift cyclinders.I bought a dozer that had been in the rock and the cyclinder rods had chips,scraps and scratchs.Had to replace the cyclinder rods because they was leaking oil and the seals were shoot. Plus if they come over the blade the next thing they hit is the grill and maybe take out the radiator.With that said watch out for big rocks.Also clearing tree is good to bend or break grills. As far as to little unless your finishing and trying to get it close to grade then there isn't any to little. If i'm dozing a hump off i usually try to take short push and as i come down with the cut length out my cut area.Close dirt needs to go to the back of the fill unless fill is really unlevel then hog the dirt in the low areas and then start coming up with the fill level if possible. If your having to do lifts then things changes.Things do change in seconds as your working.One minute things are going great then next minute you see that you need to change direction or length out your cut. If i change direction i like to use a pie system,just like cutting a pie.Still doze straight but at a angle to the area where i need the dirt or where the cut need to come down to level it up.Like when you getting close to grade. I know what i want the job to look like before i start when finshed.If that makes sense.I tell my help it's like a puzzle.Put one piece in and then another then you will start to get the picture you wanted before you started. Those end up with the finished product.I like to hog dirt and things always looks like a mess .I hate to finish (unless it is going to rain) as i go.Just before i want to finish i always like lots of loose dirt. Because when you start to level up your have extra dirt to work with.Easy to waste a little dirt then have to push clear across a 200 ft. fill for 3 or 4 /10th dips here and there.Then you have to straighten everything backup again.Time lost. If you have scraper or something else to bring dirt in to finish,but when you alone and it has to be all done with the dozer you have to get it close the first go around. I'm sure as your using a D8 that your the prime mover,but never hurts to sharpen your skills up with the big iron.Closer you get it the easier and faster the finish crew can get there job done.Being able to finish quickly makes money!!! Who knows you just might be the finish guy also.When your on your D4 trying to doze off that ft of overfill or a ft short,to get to grade, your be cussing that guy that was on the D8!!!! Can't he get it any closer then that????? Good luck:usa
take some pics! Congrats on scoring the new machine. That's quite a jump, from working at Wal Mart a couple of months ago to having your own brand new customized D8. You've got some great advice here on this BB as well to help you make the most of it. My own advice to you is to take some pics of it while it's still new. They're only new once, so now is the only time you'll ever be able to do it. One job we had for the Corp of engineers the rental company sent me a brand new JD850C. Even though we were busy setting the job up, I took the time to take a couple of pics, and I'm glad I did- it's the only brand-new dozer I've ever run, and it was sweet to be the first one to ever operate it. Digital cameras aren't all that expensive, you could even get one of those throw-away ones. Just get some pics, you'll be sorry later if you don't ointhead Oh, and of course, post them here
Thanks
Whats wrong with backdragging???
X2 there is nothing wrong with with it, but there is a time and a place when to and when not to. Everyone has there way of doing things, but the fastest way to move dirt with a dozer is Slot pushing like Deas said. Start at the edge of your cut just before it turns into a fill. Ideally you cut down to grade and carry that grade until your fill starts and if you know your dozer you should have a full blade by the time you reach your fill. Then lift your blade and start your lift. Back up in the same spot just a little farther back then there you started your last push. Now your cutting down hill a little and again if you know your dozer you will have just got a full blade by the time you have cut down to grade and carry it out into your fill again. And keep doing this until you have put a lift all the way across your fill or as far as you want, but only put that lift right in front of there your cutting NO turning. Then move over a little more then the whith of your dozer and start with a short push again. You move over a little more then your dozer is wide so your leaving a berm so the dirt isn't spilling off the sides of the dozer blade. That is slot dozing your using the berms to contain the dirt in front of your blade like a U blade would. With a D8 there is no need to cut a slot deeper then 4'-5'. If your cut is deeper then that make your slots all the way across your cut or as far as piratical and then go back and cut your slot down another 4'-5'.
stay on the smaller dozer Dont get used to it stay on the smaller dozers big dozers get boring size doesnt matter or make you better because its a bigger machine
Yaa! I thought all good dozer operators sharpened their blade once in a while!:yup
i think back draging is like cheating, if you have material in a corne ok fine but other wise i try to stay away from it and the best dozer hands i know say the same thing.
You must not have graded much sand. Or done much fine grading for that matter. To finish grade sand you almost have no other choice than to back drag. You cant really grab a quarter inch of sand while going forward with a dozer. When it comes to finish grading you dont want any track marks in the finished area. You also can not grade without material on the blade. The way I go about finishing an area is as follows. I make my push going forward. I get an area about 1 and a half blades wide. Then I make my first drag on the edge. I angle back towards my next pass at the end. I lift the blade and continue to reverse. I then go forward picking up the material I brought back with me. This does two things. It puts some weight on my blade. That tends to take some of the bounce out of the dozer. It also gives me something to push and lose. If I have a fill where Im starting back into grading, I have something to make that fill. The numbers for this are usually + or - 1 inch. At the end of that pass, I slide over and start the process all over again. Either way, when your finishing an area, you need to back drag your track marks out. Waiting until you have graded the area completely is going to take you longer. If you do the method as I have described it makes things go faster. As stated, it also gives you material to start the next pass with. The number 1 rule of finish work is you need material to grade with.
Ever spread top soil? How about D-1 someones driveway or parking lot? Most people I've done this for just as soon not have grouser marks all over their property. Years ago I was spreading topsoil in Sun Valley Idaho. The owner of the company I was working told me the first day to just remember, Cats leave no tracks. If I'm working in someones yard I'll backdrag my way onto the tiltdeck.:salute
I can agree with you on this one DB.Running an 8 or 9 or even bigger is just like running a 3.It is all by feel.I have noticed that in the past few years guys/gals are looking at the blade instead of feeling it.Trying to explain to someone about blade pull and engine sound is like trying to talk to a wall.:Banghead :Banghead :Banghead I guess the problem is that nobody takes the time to teach anymore.But on the other hand,if you don't want to learn you can't be taught.Youngone has a hell of an opprotunity in front of him,I hope he makes the most out of it.
:avid i aggree there is a time and place for it. but i strongly feel that alot of especialy while finishing will make a pass and then back drag bak and the back drag has nothing to do with tracksbut has every thing to do with they guy not being good enough to make a finish pass pushing. he has to back drag to fix his screw ups. i have finished sub grade for roads, buliding pads, and have done clean up in landscaped areas and have always left tracks, sometime i track in my work. i have never had any complaints. ass for work in the sand see joe dirt pics. if CATS dont leave tracks i guess the next ime i finish with a CAT 140 i better back drag then too huh?!:avid oh yea. back draging is for sissy! ointhead
I have come across several good dozer operators in my time and if I am to believe what I hear, I do OK myself. I should, I have been at it for over 35 years and I and any of the good guys I have run into look at the blade and that general area. The way you are talking, you could do just as good a job if you were looking out of a side or rear window, maybe even looking at the roof or even with your eyes closed? When you start a fine or regular cut the engine will not pull down till the blade fills up, I suppose that is where your feel kicks in I would love to be working along side you (not behind you) in sand or fine gravel What a bunch of crap!!!! I feel the same about the not back dragging train of thought, that blade is a tool and you should use the part of it that is the most productive at the time. Another thing, as far as blades wearing on one side more than the other, it is quite normal for that to happen, if you are in hard material and you have no ripper it is quite natural to put more pressure on one side of the blade than the other if you are working across an area and you are going from left to right or vice versa will determine which side of the cutting edge will wear most.
All hail Mr.Dozer:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy I was only referring to constantly looking at the right corner.Read and think before you shoot your mouth off.I have been doing this for 33yrs and do most of our companies finish highway grading with our graders and production dirt work with our hoes and dozers..Everybody has a different style and approach.With all of your vast years of unsurpassed knowledge and perfection ,should'nt you be able to feel an empty blade?:beatsme
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Hey YoungOne, Hows that new dozer workin out? Where's the pictures?:usa
Ohh, I thought that would get a response,"Mr Dozer" I like the sound of that, thank you for the recognition. Now seriously, if you had said "constantly" in your original mail, you would not have heard a peep out of me! Even so, with my "vast years of unsurpassed knowledge" and as you say perfection, I honestly can't feel where a dozer blade is in loose material as it goes from empty to full and I will not tell you that I know exactly where it is in firm material if I don't pay it some attention with my eyes. This has spoilt my Christmas, I feel like I`m faking it. You enjoy the holiday though. PS. I my also be inadiquit due to the fact that I pay more attention to the left corner than I do the right, as viewed from the seat.
I have never run anything smaller than a D-9 N . But as far as back dragging goes, where I work it is a cardinal sin. We do our finishing with a blade. We don't do work with sand so I can't honestly say how to finish it, maybe a trowel!??!!
All that help - and good work done. Hi, YoungOne. I was pleased to read that you enjoyed your first day on your new toy and had some good results to show for it. Good stuff. There is one thing that it is a good idea to ALWAYS bear in mind. There will forever be differing views on the 'right's and 'wrongs' of operating. The RIGHT way for you is the way that is easiest and yet most productive for you while doing the machine the least harm. I don't know what tree Pushkid84 fell out of, his experience or nay of the rest of his background, but he IS entitled to his views. Where I might disagree with him is his apparent willingness to SHOVE them down the throats of others. May I suggest that you make up your own mind about him and his views. BTW, you are most welcome to any help that I can give. Somebody had to teach me when I was starting out. The least I can do to repay them for their help is to pass it on in turn.
back draggin :laugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh :falldownlaugh the way i was thought was if you needed new cutting edges just call the service guy and he would bring them out.back draggin just sharpens the edge so you dont have to buy new ones>>>>>>>>>>>.hahahahahaah
When doing finishing work, it is a requirement to go and backdrag for your final pass out. And to say that you can do anything forwards that your can backwards with a blade, I suggest you expand your horizons. I wish I was on jobs that didnt require backdragging. If I were on a job with nothing smaller than a D9, I wouldnt be doing much bd either.
Back-blading. Hi, Pushkid84. I've got more time on machines than any of the other quotes so far in this thread and I've done my fair share of fine grading with all sorts of different machines, dozers included. I can tell you there's just no way that I am going to turn around and go to the other side of a pile of material just to push some back to a low spot when I can drop the blade over it and drag it back with me, then pick it up and cut it off on grade without wasting all that time turning twice so that I don't offend YOUR sensibilities. Hey, I'll even back-drag material with a grader if that is what I see as the most efficient way to do the job and your 'experts' can go jump. Expert: an 'ex' is either a has-been or an unknown quantity and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure.) Get real. Use the machine in the most efficient, least damaging way possible, THAT is what is made for, not to be used as a 'toy' to follow some 'Holy Bible' of utter crap dreamed up by people who would impose their values on the rest of us, no matter what. All of the best operators I know will tell you, just about word for word, what I have just written above. Merry Christmas and a happy, prosperous and better informed new year. You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.
I'm with LDK - only I DON'T feel inadikwit. Hi, LDK. I'm with you. I can't feel if there are only a few pebbles or small clods on the blade of a D11 either. And I usually only KNOW that I have started a light cut with one if I use my eyes. Does that make me 'insensitive'? How-wevver, I DON'T feel 'inadikwit' about it. If the 'wannabe experts' don't like it or feel that they may be in some way superior to me because of it, I am sure in my own mind that THEY are the ones with the problems. You see, they still have to live long enough to have operated for as long as I have and get their butts on as many machines as I have to be able to claim the breadth of experience that I can claim and do the numbers of different types of work that I have done to be able to lay claim to that too. You have a wonderful festive season, Mate.
:cool2 You can see there is a drastic difference between mining and construction. I would like to do more construction, "Broaden my Horizons". But in all seriousness our GM's and formans will write you up for backdragging right or wrong that's the way business is done here.
Deas, you the man! All good posts as usual! :drinkup Merry Christmas Eric, I've never worked in a strip mine so I can't comment on that. I have worked for a few contractors and have never once had one of them question the way I'm using one of their machines. I've also never had anyone tell me they don't mind if I leave grouser marks in their driveway when I get a call to top it for them. I just assume they are paying me to make it smooth so I try.
Mining Vs Construction. Hi, Eric. Welcome to the forum. Yes, there are a few differences between mining and construction, especially when you are talking about hard rock mining/quarrying. I have yet to see an operator's manual that said, "Do NOT under any circumstances back-blade or drag the blade backwards." However, it is not uncommon for there to be a warning about back-blading damaging the blade base in rocky going or if it is snagged on a stump or suchlike. I once saw an operator on a Hough D500 4wd dozer forget to lift his blade quick enough at the end of his push into a hopper and tear it right off when it snagged in the grate as he backed away. Now THAT took a little while to fix. As with any other aspect of operating, there are hazards to be guarded against but most of them are just plain, old-fashioned common sense, which valuable commodity seems to be becoming increasingly UN-common and less valued these days. I have no intention whatsoever of abandoning my meagre remaining supply. I can see that there might be a need in a hard rock mine or quarry for a no back-blading rule but that is a whole different ball game from what most of the folks here are talking about. They're talking about fine grading in softer, more easily worked materials. Trowel????????????? What's that??????????????? Sounds like something that Portugese fella, Manuel Labour, might get involved with. LOL.
Same backatchyer, Lashlander. Hi, Lashlander. Thanks for your kind comments and wishes and the same backatchyer. Just watch out for those big fuzzy teddy bears that you have up your way. I'd guess they're pretty much all sound asleep now but the big boogers tend to wake up in April/May, all hungry and out of sorts, I'm told. A bit like a bear with 3 sore heads. LOL.
There are a number of posts on the previous page of this thread that are not of the tone I'd like to see here at the forums. Anyone here can post their opinion without being critical of others, but when things get heated we'll shut it down. Let me suggest everyone take a breath before they post and put down their thoughts without the finger jabbing and chest pounding I've seen earlier. Thanks!!
:notworthy I love it! A quote that should live in infamy. And I agree 100% :iagree Every job is different and has its own unique problems as well as Super Foreman's. Ya know, the ones who think they can run beside you and control the machine. I've got a way with dealing with them kind of people....but thats for another thread. Like I said above, every job is different and you need to go about it differently to get the desired results. Now what works for me might not work for you and visa versa. One thing that I have learned in 30 years of operating all kinds of equipment is that those who claim to be experts, aren't. Those who believe that they know it all, don't. Those who think that they are so much better than anybody and everybody else....do infarct suck big time. I never claim to be good at anything. I let my actions speak for me. I just do the best that I can 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time, my performance is based on how I am treated by a particular foreman. If he treats me lass than, I give him less than... Most of them catch on rather quickly.. Some don't. They would rather argue like I'm their red headed step child. I won't argue with him. I'll just hand him my ticket book and with a big smile I'll say," I don't want you feel like I'm wasting any more of your money so if you'll kindly sign my rental ticket I'll be on my way. Hopefully you'll find someone that better suits your demands and needs" End of story.... The smiling part is what really irritates them. In this kind of trade, a good operator is always learning something new. He is always willing to take on criticism, take chances, learn from his mistakes as well as others mistakes and most of all, he is willing to adapt to the always changing jobs and machinery. A good operator never knows everything because there is still so much more to learn.
Backdragging I certainly don't want to add fuel to the fire but here's my 2 cents. I'll take responsibility for Push Kids attitude towards BDing. Often times we will get a new hire candidate who is Gods gift to dozers. Put him in the machine and it's a different story. Every pass made is followed up by BDing the blade due to the fact there is a new roller coaster in town (up, down, up, down). That being said, its sort of a tool we use as to keep operators focused on making a quality pass from the start without relying on the BD technique. Possibly another example I could use is using your mirrors. I know lowboys are certainly different than dozers but another comparison would be wether to look out the back window as opposed to using your mirrors. Often times it is necessary to look out the rear window when backing, but become reliant on this may present troubles down the road. In my opinion learn how to use the mirrors first or make sure your "push passes" count. I don't want to cram words into PK's mouth but knowing and working with him I wouldn't interrupt his "ban on backdragging" any more than only use it when necessary. As it has been mentioned in several other posts, all jobs are different. On occasion our prints will read "track walk slopes with a 40k to 50k pound crawler tractor. I'm with you on this one Lash. I wish it would read "aimlessly track walk slopes throwing about 2k to 5k dollars of undercarriage wear away for no reason". At least I would feel better about what were doing. It is always interesting for me to see the opinions across the board. I know for me, sometimes I get stuck in thinking "this is the way we do it here, it must be the same everywhere else." Not always the case. Thanks for the input..... Joe :usa
Reduction of air pollution. Hi, Joe Dirt. Thanks for clearing the air on those issues. (Hence the title of this post.) I have for quite a while advocated that people not talk/write in 'absolutes', especially on forums such as this. What works or is standard practice with one company or in one area may well be frowned upon in another situation. There is quite likely to be someone around who not only can but will blow your 'absolute' statement right out of the water. Maybe you would like to point this out to PK84. Best wishes for a merry Christmas and a happy and properous new year.
Deas, have a good one yourself and all the best for the coming year. I kinda knew we would be at the least in the same book store. I have a very low tollerance level for some of the stuff they try and feed us.
Peace on earth, and good will towards dozer operators, whether they backdrag or not...
This is an interesting topic, well sub topic of the main topic of "Young One's" new dozer. As Dea has said about backdragging material off a pile, I have seen my dad and uncle(35 and 50+ years experience) do just that many times. No harm no foul. I understand that in working around a mininning or quarring enviroment that back dragging large rocks is not a good thing(guy did that at work and somehow someway it got under the machine or in the front grill and has the radiator pushed back so we can only turn the fan blades one way). I myself am not the greatest dozer man and once and a while, depending on the type of material I am in, get the "whoops" and somtimes I'll just kinda back float the blade to fill it in a bit then in my next two passes or so work on getting it back smooth again. A few years ago we were on a large waterway project and the main waterway was over 2000 feet long with a 60 foot bottom to it. I was going ahead knocking off the high spots and filling in the washouts while my uncle was doing the finish behind me. We both were getting "whoops" cause some of the dirt was washed in, some was virgin(so loose than hard). It just took a bit more time and we got it. As far as weather to BD or Not to BD, if you can do it in an efficient manner and do so without harming the machine than go for it. Once again, just my 2 cents. Trbo
You are right on target ROP.I feel and carry myself the same way !:drinkup This is the exact point I was trying to make before.An open mind with a closed mouth is a very valuable tool.The highest production at the highest level of quality and safety with minimal damaging effects is what us or any Super is after.There will always be a different way to do something and there will always be a new thing to learn.Nice to see that common sense has prevailed. IUOE 825 : :usa
:beatsme What are you guys talking about??? Bah-Humbug
Phil Osophy yet. Hi, Dozerboy. If we just ignore 'em, d'yer think they'll go away and let us git back ter moving dirt instead gittin' orl uv this Phil Osophy stuff? LOL. From as far back as I can remember in my operating career, I have known that operating was not just something that you did with your hands and feet. If you cain't gitchyer head in on the act, yer goin' ter be FAR less effective as an operator. SEZME.
Thanks I Agree Steve We need to watch our EGOS
honestly i will honestly say that most of you guys have worlds more experience than i do there is no question in my mind! and i know that i have worlds to learn! if you were to ask any one who knows me personally they would tell you i am extremely open minded and love to learn from more expncd. operators, but getting back on the forum this evening i can see that some of my comments my have offended others and i do apologize. i will say this the comments by most of you about me were fairly harsh and unappreciated. i will also say that a lot of you seem to be the older guys that on certain jobs sites i have asked questions of and have acted like complete primadonas. at any rate sorry if this young and upcoming kid caused your blood pressure to rise hope you all are ok.:notworthy
Honestly. Hi, Pushkid84. You have been honest so I will be honest in return, not that I have been anything but all along. From pretty much the first post of yours that I can remember, I had the impression that you may have been a cross between a computer and a horizontal social worker. In spite of acknowledging your youth, you made some rather 'definite' statements about the 'right' way to do things. Now I can remember being very young in this game and VERY good at operating 'dozers and somewhat brash too. I can assure you that it is a combination that stands a good chance of getting up people's noses, if you get what I mean. Personally, I have no objection to helping anybody who genuinely wants to learn to operate any machine on which I have some worthwhile experience, knowledge and ability. You may have noticed that Young One came on here ASKING for help - and got it. BUT, when somebody comes on this or any other forum where I contribute and tells me, or others, that a certain practice - in this case, back-blading with a dozer - is a no-no, I may just take a notion into my tiny mind to debate the issue. I'd be willing to bet that if you had come on here and ASKED for people's opinions on the practice of back-blading, you would have received an entirely different response from pretty much everybody who posted in response to your back-blading posts. Food for thought? About the only 'DEFINITE' statement that I will make on this or any other forum is that if I ever stop learning, I'll be dead from the neck up. I have also, for most of my working life, had the attitude that you can learn from the 'mugs' as well as from the 'experts'. You may not learn how TO do something from the mugs, but you can sometimes learn how NOT to do it. Hope you enjoy the rest of your holidays.
advice only This is a valuable lesson for you , you will encounter different personalities out there in the work field , Ive seen Good operators gone by the whey side Because they could nt handle the Head games ,and ego that most of us operators come with , be careful make sure you stick with people you really can trust , and the whey you find that is to watch the men you work with stick with the one willing to train you in all aspects even in life thats the one you trust , But remember to be a Good trainee never get to cocky and Watch your attitude thats the key to sticking around It will take time to earn respect from the olde folk And It wont be easy for you but Keep my advice on your mind, you will last KMS
What are you talking about not speaking in absolution? you are are speaking in absolution about me, and what are you talking about when you say " a computer and a horizontal social worker" a debate is completely different from what has taken place here this has been more like a bash on an opinion than any thing else. i have some what tried to make amends and have been snubbed. if i have taken your comments out of context sorry. as for the beginning of this "discussion" young one asked for advice and i gave him my opinion on things, i am pretty sure that i said something like there is a time and a place for it not never ever do it. some food for thought for you never make assumptions of people that you do not know " it has a good chance of getting up peoples noses"
I've said my piece. Hi, Pushkid 84. I've said my piece and tried to restore the peace. That's it for me.
thanks thank you for your advice it is really appreciated happy new year:drinkup
Holy smokes!! Good times here. I got to spend 12 more hours with the 16M today so I'm feeling pretty good. Anyway, in our mine I think the no BDing rule is to do with weeding out the fellas who can't push smooth, then try to back drag the woopty doo's. Anyway, when I was breaking in I was back dragging a bit my trainer very calmly pulled me down and simply said " learn to push before you learn to drag" then smiled and turned me loose. Happy birthday Jesus to you all!!
congrats on the m. lets see some pics.
As in the real world, I have learned that patients pays dividens. There is no need to make a fuss about someone, just give them enough rope and they will hang themselfs. I try to reassure the young operators on our jobsites that there is no need to run to the boss about people's problems (unless unsafe) because if you can see the issue so can everyone else. I have found that running to the boss to snitch on someone only makes them look bad since 95% of the time the boss is already aware of the situation. This might seem kind of random to some of you, but I hope some of you know what I am getting at.
Twas the night after Christrmas... :umno :wierdt :shf :idontgetit
A few highlights from this thread, from my own simple perspective. (All the bold is mine; capitals are by the respective poster): Post #23 Post #32 Post #36 Also post #36 Post#43 Post #55 Post #64 I don't see anywhere that pushkid tried to "shove" his point of view down anybody else's throat, or used "absolute" terms. The "oh yea. back draging is for sissy!" comment was certainly sarcastic, but I think PK was on the defensive by that time. Deas, I've always respected your honesty, your years of experience, and your willingness to educate, but in this case, I believe you wrongly accused pushkid. I read his comments as "opinions", not absolute statements of fact. Sharing opinions is what this site is all about, and we all get to say what our opinions are, and we all get to defend those opinions when they differ from those of others, and if the criticism and defense of those opinions becomes heated, that's just fine. That's what was going on here, but I think that in post #43, you got needlessly personal, and what followed began to become counter-productive. That's the sort of thing we need to avoid here. I realize that they're part of your somewhat irascible charm, but I think retracting the personal comments would go a long way toward the above mentioned restoration of the peace. And, as far as this thread goes, that's my opinion . Now, back to the topic... ================================================ On edit, (made after the thread has been locked): It slipped past me at first, but the post I quoted above that contained the reference to backdragging 'being for sissies' opened with the avid) smiley. That could easily be interpreted as a sign of disrespect not to the opposing opinions, but to the all the individuals that offered those opinions. I took Deas to task for becoming "needlessly personal" in his comments. Both as a member of the community, and a member of the staff, I'll stand by my opinion of what's "personal" and what's proper and improper about that, but at the same time, I'll remind one and all that we operate under a policy of mutual respect here. Do not expect to receive that which you fail to give.
I think this thread has about run its course anyway. Just a refresher on forum etiquette: Do not read anything into a post that is not there. We are dealing with text only here on the forums and it is very easy to confuse the intent of a post if we let our imaginations wander. If you disagree with a post, by all means we invite you to post your opinion but in a way that does not belittle or demean the original poster. We all have an opportunity to learn here and it would be unfortunate for a member to be discouraged from participating for fear of reprisal. Please leave the moderating to the HEF staff. A simple misunderstanding can easily be compounded by a member with good intent trying to restore order and in the process the well intended member becomes part of the fray.