I'm sure this topic has been beat to death in the past. But I've been pricing a complete undercarriage for a D6R XL (wow). Have been priced the ITM brand, because they said the Berco was about the same price as the Cat price. Don't know if the ITM is as good of quality? Just wanting the best for the buck ! Has anyone compared the ITM, Berco & Cat for overall cost ?
Does your D6 have Cat SystemOne undercarriage or regular SALT chains..? I think someone posted here not long ago regarding experience with ITM. Can't remember what they said though. A lot of the calculation regarding undercarriage should IMHO be not the cost per se, but the cost divided by the life and work it on cost/hour - unless this is a machine that only works a few hundred hours a year.
Regulat SALT & run about 500 hrs per year
In that case you're probably worried more about initial cost than cost/hour. Not my field I'm afraid ........... I wouldn't use aftermarket undercarriage under any circumstances but then again my tractors work 6-7000 hours/year.
I run nothing but OEM CAT HD UC on my dozers. Aftermarket undercarriage systems can't compare in my opinion, they may be less expensive to purchase but CAT OEM is the best longterm investment, penny wise , dollar foolish is the saying that cones yo mind. The system 1 UC left allot to be desired but you can get the older style HD UC again....thats what we have been using... 5000 to 7500 hours can't be expected depending on a bunch of factors...
My Cat dealer has a promo on right now for what they call a full wrap. I recently priced CAT vs ITM/BERCO for a D5G and the cat deal is pretty good. It was a touch more, but it was installed too so... I have found CAT service to be over the top, but the parts dept is extremely competitive.
In 2005 I purchased a complete undercarriage less pads from my local Cat dealer. my crawler is a '92 D4c series2. opted for the SALT rails. after installing the parts, my crawler rolled easier on hard ground, made way less noise, and the ride was incredible compared to the old worn out uc. cant emphasize how much better the dozer rode. in 1500 hours or so that I have logged since, I have had to adjust the track tensioners only twice. after having this experience with cat uc parts I don't think it would pay to buy cheaper parts. buying dozer rails is akin to buying dirtbike/atv chains. you get what you pay for. we bought a '88 deere455g crawler loader in 2011 from a local contractor friend of mine. had 5400 hours on the meter and has quite a few documented repairs. in excellent shape overall and runs perfect. we knew it needed sprockets and the uc had some wear. when you run it, the tracks squeak and squall and make plenty of noise. quite a bit of difference from the Cat. but who knows if this the original uc. also when going thru your uc, use genuine Cat bolts/nuts for pads and sprockets. doesn't cost much more, and Cat makes a far superior bolt product.
Just looked at a D6H, late 80s unit and needed everything on the underside, idlers, rollers, shoes, so I called Cat here, was going to set me back close to $40K for the entire structure including(recommended) tensioner rebuilds, all bolts and sprocket segments. I did not buy the tractor.
For what it's worth, I had the undercarriage measured on my D5G, original chains and the worst worn was 62% on the left side. The machine has 4400 hours on it. I buy genuine Cat parts as they wear better in the long run and provide more value. Your situation may be different, just my $.02.
So if the wear continues at that rate it should go around 7100 hours to a pin & bush turn or 8800 hours if you run the chains to destruction.
CM1995, Sounds like your a very experienced operator. That's great life on an undercarriage. I am assuming its OEM CAT UC ?
Back to what I said before about cost/hour ................ We run our SALT chains to destruction and are currently getting over 10,000 hours out of them. Not sure of the exact figure now, last time I lokked it was 10,850. Shoes are a different ball game altogether, we can take grousers off in 1000 hours or less.
Can't complain when your getting over 10k hours on a set of SALT chains.....must be rough surfaces to take shoes off in 1000 hours.
I expect to get 7000 hrs out of them, that should be 2 more years or so at the current usage. It's original chains. Same here, it's the 3rd set of pads on this machine. The pads measured 103% worn. The grousers haven't worn down to the bolts yet but it's close.
I burned through a set of D6N XL pads in less than 600 hours once - chert is some abrasive material.
Have you examined the cost-effectiveness of re-grousering versus shoe replacement if the base of your track shoes are still good..? We get 3 lives on shoes, OEM plus re-grouser twice before the base of the shoe gets too thin to go again.
Nige, I have. The last set of Cat pads and hardware for the D5G ran around $4-5K, we installed them. I ran the numbers on materials, labor and time and although there was a savings, it didn't amount to enough to go with that option. The biggest issue being downtime and tying up not only the machine but the operator/welder. I have an operator thats a certified welder and does a great job. Of course it's been several years ago and I am sure the price has went up. I've got my PSR working up a price for new pads and hardware, I'll report back when I have the price. May make sense to re-grouser this go-round'. With three guys and a big air comp., we can swap them out in a day.
Different for us. We have a gazillion spare sets of shoes that are re-grousered when welding resources are available. Then like you we just swap shoes.
I have a set of pads for the D5G, 953 and a D6N that I don't own anymore. Thought about re-grousing the D5 and 953 pads but haven't had the time to do it. We need about two weeks of "free" time at the shop for several projects but have been blessed with work and no time. I need to put the D6N XL pads up for sale.
OK. Cat D5G XL track pads, bolts and nuts - $2600. Parts only labor would be another $1k.
Try comparing the above with the cost of pre-cut grousers plus welding labour to install them on shoes that have been removed. Also try what we do - only 50% replacement of hardware. We replace the bolts/nuts that are furthest away from the grouser with new but re-use the bolts/nuts next to the grouser because they are always much less worn on the head - the grouser protects them, even at 100% wear levels. When reinstalling shoes the new bolts go next to the grouser, the used ones further away. That cuts your hardware cost by around 50%.
Nige the hardware is roughly $450, so it's worth it. Thanks for the advice. Last time I changed the pads was, well a different time, work was plentiful and it was easier to just replace all the hard ware. Times have changed and every dollar counts. I am at $2600 for new shoes and deduct roughly $200 for re-using 1/2 the bolts and I'm in for $2400, plus labor. Question - You said price the labor with the shoes removed. I am no welder but it would be very difficult to weld grousers on a D5G (not much room on the inside) with the shoes on except maybe welding them at the rear of the tractor, at 3 o'clock on the sprocket, as it does protrude beyond the rear of the machine. If the shoes could be re-grousered on the machine that would be a labor savings but if they have to come off, that expense is a wash either way. Then add back to the re-grousing $225 for 1/2 of hardware. Sorry, I'm an estimator at heart. Anyone have any idea how much grouser bar stock runs per FT for a D5G XL?
Contact Dura-Tuff and ask them to give you a price for however-many-shoes-you-have in pre-cut sections in whatever your shoe width is of the correct profile bar . Their web site has a link showing all the different profiles with height, thickness, etc. If you can weld grousers on without removing the shoes (and you can take the downtime on the tractor while doing it) you should save even more. You could even consider a grouser bar with a curved profile that will weld straight on to a worn shoe without the need to trim the existing grouser in order to get everything flat before installing the new bar.
Pickett Equipment out of Indy area to buy your undercarriage parts! don't go OEM save your money that **** is marked up 200%
Thanks MechamServices. So if my quote was marked up 200%, that means this place will only charge around $870 for track pads, bolts and nuts right?
I like the one where they say it's 3x cheaper then new. As for pads and bolts.Here i like going new.Hate low grouser height and mud.Not enough traction and always spining.I have always used extreme service pads because of the extra grouser height and they out wear the standard pads at least twrice as long.Rough ride when ground is dry and hard,but love them when it is muddy and needing traction. Bolts i usualy go new there also.Tried reusing the segment bolts last year and couldn't keep the bolts tight because they was strecthed,replaced with new and no more coming loose.If you reuse any of the bolts you need to keep checking them to see if they come loose.If they do best to just replace them. Have used aftermarket tracks and keep going back to Cat.Cat has been very competive on price here the last few times i have used them.Good luck
my bad I was just trying to save you some money, the market is flooded with u/c parts right now I think going oem is foolish, but hey its your wallet go a head and give it to the big dealer
allow me to re-phrase that. "The market is flooded with **** 3rd World knock-off u/c parts right now"........ Believe you me in the last 30+ years I've probably crunched the numbers more times than I've had hot dinners and I have yet to find any aftermarket u/c parts that gives me a lower cost/operating hour than OEM. Your 200% mark up comment is quite frankly ridiculous.
ok my bad I didn't realize I had to be exact on my markup number......like I said its your wallet keep feeding the dealerships with your hard earned money. good bye
Thanks for the concern for my wallet but I have been in this a while and don't make it a practice to throw away money.:cool2 Cheapest/cheaper is not always the best value.
Agreed - Cost/operating hour or cost/cubic metre of dirt moved is the ONLY reliable cost driver IMHO ............