Ok guys, looking at purchasing a pump for my 330CLC excavator. It has 8100 hours on it. I wanted to get some feedback as to the best bang for your buck. And also some stories on experiences with each. New would be off-shore (Korea/China) around $4700 1 year warranty Rebuilt would also be tested and tuned around $4500 1 year warranty Used would be open inspected, untested, untuned $3500 with a 90 day warranty
From a pure numbers standpoint- Rebuilt or new Korea. The used one doesnt make sense for the kind of $$ youre talking here...even though it does mean spending an additional 1 k.
Second the above. Used shouldn't be that much, compared to new.
New. To me that is an easy choice
Thanks guys. If the used (and buy "Used" I mean open/inspected and resealed) were say $3000 would that be enough of a difference for you? I'm figuring New too, was just curious as to what you guys would do in the same situation. Glad to see I'm thinking the same way.
I'd say it all depends on how the dealer stands behind the new Korea/China pump. If you end up having any issues with it and have no dealer support you have a major problem. If you know a good local rebuilder who you can trust then I would probably go with them. Where in Canada are you located?
Exactly as mentioned before, the used makes no sense if only 1000-1500 diff, unless it was proven to be off of a very low hr machine …….. I would re-build all the way, pumps and motors both …. know of a few guys that thought that the Korean/Chin stuff would be OK ….. until they had premature failure and found things like poor castings, or worse yet had to modify the mounting because the castings were bad, then having a failure only to be told that they mod'd the unit "Sorry NO Warranty"…... by then it was too late to revert back to rebuilding, usually having to give up u'r original unit for core and then forced to panic buy at the OEM $$$$$ …… I've had various motors/pumps rebuilt over the years and parts used were OEM pieces, including centre rings, end cases, gears, ect. ……… Cheers
I'll throw my 2 cents in here. When trying to make a decision on which way to jump about repairing a component I always try to bear in mind what I call "disaster potential". So what is Disaster Potential I hear you ask..? Well I consider it to be what the chances are of a replacement component screwing up something far bigger and far more expensive to repair if it craps itself with no warning. Now in the case of a 330 hydraulic pump what would be the Disaster Potential..? 1. Main Control valve (or valves) 2. Pilot system, pump, & valves. 3. 4 hydraulic cylinders. 4. Swing motor 5. Travel motors & swivel. All the above is before you even start thinking of the lines, hoses, & tubes that would have to come off and be cleaned out, plus cleaning the main hydraulic tank out, in the event of a catastrophic pump failure. So if a main hydraulic pump suffered a mechanical hernia then sharpen your pencil and tell me just how many $ of other components could potentially be affected..? Remind me again just how many $ exactly are you talking about saving..? Of the options you mention the only one I would remotely consider, and it wouldn't be my first choice either, is "rebuilt, tested & tuned". You say the pump has 8100 operating hours. Does the machine have the same..? If you went for a rebuilt pump how could you know how many hours the core parts of the "new" pump had on them..? I'd personally be looking to have the existing pump stripped & rebuilt (not an option you mentioned above) simply because it gives you the best way of knowing the iron that's going back into a very expensive hydraulic system.
Exactly Nige !! ………I was taking the option as to "Rebuild your own Pump" ….. as opposed to buying a rebuild ……. was in a rush when I read the question and gave my reply as if it were your own unit to rebuild ……. I have had it where the rebuild wasn't that far off $$$$ of a grey rebuild or a Grey new (not knowing who did the build)….. and not a rebuild from the OEM ……. "Plook" …. out of curiosity did you get a cost of a reman Pump from your Cat Dealer Parts guy ???
Great minds think alike. I don't have the prefix of the OPs machine and there are a number of 330CL's in the system. I did check one model quickly and didn't find a Reman pump listed for it - though that doesn't mean to say one doesn't exist.
I'll have to agree with Nige, and Kraft all the way on this one, especially if you have a shop there you trust and like the work they do.
I've dealt with rebuilders for years and my only choice would be a reman or new from Cat. I've seen the China stuff up close and personal and put my hands on the inferior castings, finishes and mis-designed parts. As Nige says, the disaster potential is way too high to take a chance on a main line machine. What also is forgotten is the revenue lost while the machine is down and the safety issues that could crop up when trash starts getting stuck in spools. There are plenty of other places where you can save money. Risking a hydraulic system is not cost effective.
Good point John. Sometimes as maintenance people we get tied up in what comes out of our budget to fix an unplanned repair, completely forgetting what the operations side of the business is losing because they don't have a machine available.
If it was for a Korean machine I would recommend the new Korean pump. There are only a few manufacturers in Korea making a complete replacement pump. The quality is good for Korean applications. After all, they are all copies of Kawasaki K3V and K5V series anyway. Even Kawasaki has an authorized aftermarket Korean brand made in Korea. I've bought the Deere/Hitachi replacement pumps from Korea and they are not the caliber of product that they need to be. Give them a couple more years to work out the kinks. It is entirely too risky at this point to use a Korean pump for this model. We stock new pumps to fit over 60 excavator models and this is one I won't touch. I do not group Korea/China in the same category. It is not even remotely comparable. I will not buy a single hydraulic component from China. Nothing. I spent 16 days last November traveling to "factories" in China. They are simply behind the times from a manufacturing perspective. There were a few that have adopted Japanese style quality management, but there is no follow through. The material is inferior and so is the equipment used to manufacture. I believe China will be a viable option for hydraulic components in about 5 years. I do product development for a living. I don't sit behind a computer and order solely on price. I visit the actual factory, then bring sample products over for R&D. Once it passes, we put it in our product portfolio. Last year we spent over $10,000 in product that failed to meet the criteria we demand. (ouch!) The reason I bring this up is because the internet has made the world A LOT smaller and I find people buying on price alone and getting burned. There are many people that simply do not check the quality of the product they are selling. Every day I see new brokers popping up trying to sell the same inferior product. They are buying in to whatever somone in another country emails to them. Lastly, a 1 year warranty is great. It is what we offer. However, look at the fine print!!! Get it in writing and be certain of what is covered. Is the manufacturer of the pump providing the 1 year warranty or is the company offering the pump offering the warranty? It makes a huge difference! What happens if a failure occurs? Does it have to be sent to Korea/China for a warranty analysis? If so, what are you left with during this time? Will they repair the pump or replace the entire unit? If the company is providing said warranty. What is their history and reputation? Life is so fast paced now. I am surprised to see how little research people do when contemplating a component purchase. Which is why I took the time to write this novel as a reply, to support your research.
I vote for a CAT reman, or a top notch rebuild. Used parts in my experience are priced at 50% of new OEM list, not half of what you can buy a knockoff for. I deal with Chinese factories now and then and most are quite honest, I have made many inquiries about Chinese knockoffs of Rexroth and Sauer-Danfoss piston motors. The response, always: You do not want Chinese hydraulic motors for your machines, better to use US or German made motors. I would imagine pumps are the same deal.
What pump is in your machine? There should be a tag on it somewere. There could be at least three different ones that Cat uses, Uchida, Rexroth or Kawasaki. All are good pumps and I have rebuilt all of them using aftermarket parts. Theres a bunch of places that make aftermarket parts for hydraulic pumps some are better then others. I have did the hard part by trying them all and buying parts from them and compairing quality and price. Let me know what you have and i will tell you what I would charge. [email protected]