I have been reading posts here for several years and have an occasional post. It is about time that I posted some pictures of my dads logging equipment and perhaps others will join in. Our family moved to the Klamath River area in far Northern Calif in the spring of 1955. I graduated from the eighth grade in a little mill town in NW Oregon (Cherry Grove) and we moved the next day along with our uphill neighbors. We stopped in Myrtle Creek, Oregon and helped the neighbors unload as he had a job with Roseburg Lumber Company and we then proceeded to the old mining town of Hamburg, CA about fifty miles down river from hwy 99. The trip was all on two lane highways in those days and the move took about ten hours. Our families entire possessions were in a 1951 Chevrolet PU, a small trailer and the family car. My dad had started working in the woods when he was about eighteen and he never went past his freshman year in high school. My grandfather was a strong believer in hard work and not much for education, also the depression was still in effect and every extra dollar counted. His first logging jobs were with Flora Logging who ran a big operation out of Carlton, Oregon. This was RR logging and as I recall Flora was big enough to have either a Lidgerwood, or Willamette skidder. I just remember him telling me that soft RR grades caused lots of trouble with moving it and because of all the drums and cables of the dual purpose machine it was very dangerous to work around. Flora Logging lost a lot of equipment in one of the big Tillamook burns and they never recovered from the losses. My first memories of logging were from around 1949 or 50 and there were small mills all over NW Oregon because the economy was booming and the era of the small gypo loggers was at hand. My dad was like many other who would log a patch of timber they contracted for from a farmer, or small land owner and they would sell it at whichever mill was paying better. It was not steady work and none of the jobs were very large. In 1954 he contracted with Hi Ridge Lumber in Seiad Valley, CA to log US Forest Service sales and this was his first large logging operation. Seiad Logging was the company and there were three partners, so naturally in a short time there were partnership issues. In case you are wondering "Seiad" is an Indian name for the valley where the mill was located. Dad had looked at the logging contract for Ketchikan Pulp, but thought it was more than he was prepared to take on. He later said that the man who did take that job became a millionaire and I suppose that is true? In any case the first logging job was a forest burn up Seiad Creek on steep rocky ground. Because of the high cost of Caterpillar equipment, the partners purchased three Allis Chalmers tractors, two HD 15's and an HD 19. They would find out that these tractors were simply not up to the rigors of logging in this country. Here are some pictures of those early tractors such as they are. Some of the pictures are of family making a visit to the landing and since log trucks were in short supply the landing was not a busy place on that day.
Well, I see that I managed to duplicate the three photos I posted, so perhaps will get it right the second time around
Yair . . . Sidney43 . Interesting story, don't worry about the picture glitch, it is interesting stuff . . . keep posting. Cheers.
Great insight to what it took to get a logging company started , keep the story and pictures coming , looking forward to watching this thread grow. Lots of history in your corner of the Pacific North West thanks for sharing Sidney43 .
Another pair of photos of the Allis Chalmers tractors that had detroit diesels for engines if I am not mistaken. The first photo shows one of the partners, Jerry Neuenschwander operating the tractor and the second photo shows the wife of the neighbors who moved to Myrtle Creek at the same time we did. Her name was Lavonne Halvorsen and the little critter standing on the tracks was a Pomeranian named Randy. Somewhere I have a photo of the loader, usually referred to as a "jammer" but can't find it right now. It was powered by a flathead Ford motor and the first and second loaders used end hooks to lift the logs onto the trucks. I apologize for the poor quality of some of the photos as they were on slides and suffered some deterioration over the years before they were scanned. I am also posting a photo of a view of Seiad Valley just to show the rock piles left behind when almost the entire valley was dredged for gold. Much of the upper Klamath River was dredged wherever there was flat ground because the Klamath Mountains were well known for gold deposits on both the California and Oregon sides. When we moved to the Klamath River in 1955 there were seven dredges parked in ponds as all gold mining had been shut down in 1942. They survived the large flood in 1955, but the massive flood of 1964 destroyed the four small ones. The three large dredges remaining were over time dismantled and shipped off to South America or elsewhere and put back to work .
One more photo to post unless I can locate some others of this period of logging. My Dad leaning on the tracks of a virtually new Caterpillar D8. The mistakes of buying AC tractors had been rectified, although I think they still had one of them at the time this photo was taken. A 1957 Chevy PU and one proud logger leaning on his new "Cat", which would place the photo as taken in 1958 up Seiad Creek, but no longer logging burned timber. The loggers name was Walter Anderson and as I recall the partnership was down to two, but can't recall if it was still Seiad Logging or the partners names as it eventually became.
Sidney43, have you read Louise Wagenknecht's book on growing up in that area? James Waddell also wrote one. Camptramp is right about the history of klamath river area. lots of it.
Thanks for the info on books. Found one by Louise Wagenknecht and ordered it. From the description she arrived in Happy Camp in 1962 and I attended high school there in 1955-56. I was back in Happy Camp in the summer of 1960 as dad was logging on Cade Mountain up at the head of Thompson Creek. On many of the landings we could look down on the small community of Thompson Creek and see the highway and the river.
Sidney 43...Thanks for posting the pictures and descriptions. Great stuff.
Very interesting thread. Thank you Sidney.
First of all, I did receive the book by Louise Wagenknecht and thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Lots of memories brought back through her story about life on the Klamath during the heyday of logging in the Klamath National Forest. I did find some additional photos as I located the two albums we put together after my dad passed away, so all the logging photos could be kept in one place. Had to ask my wife where they were, but she knew, which is more than I could say. Found the photo of the loader (the jammer) and it is a far cry from some of the beautiful equipment I see posted on threads from Alaska and British Columbia. It was mounted on an old military chassis, but got the job done for around 8 years if our memories are correct. There are only two views of it, neither is really good, but old timers here have probably seen some others like it.
Here is another view of the D8 which is no longer so new looking, since these photos were taken in 1959. These photos were taken by a professional photographer sent out by Caterpillar at the selling dealers request. I don't know if the photos were made part of an article in a logging publication, or not, but will post a copy of the letter attached to the photos that were sent to dad. If you look at the first image you can make out the end hooks in a log being moved into a deck out of the way of the incoming logs.
Forgot to mention that in the second photo of the D8 you can see the operator of the loader and the truck it is mounted on. This last post is the letter mentioned in prior post. All of these three photos were taken up Walker Creek in 1959 and they were in some pretty nice timber from what I can see.
In the first post on this thread I mentioned that trucks were in short supply and there was no problem with family visiting the landing. The reason for this situation is that logging was booming on the Klamath National Forest in the mid fifties and while there were willing loggers and there were sawmills, trucking had not kept pace. The three partners started out with two trucks, a 1951 or 52 GMC three axle logging truck and a 1950 or 51 Mack. The GMC belonged to Jerry Neuenschwander, one of the partners and I am not sure where the Mack came from. It became quickly clear that the GMC was not going to be up to the demands of hauling logs, so outside truckers were sought. They finally did contract with a truck owner from Arcata, California, but they found out that he had collected some trucks from various sources including the bone yards and put engines in them. Breakdowns were common and logs piled up on the landing with no trucks to haul them. It was a stressful time for the new company operating with low capitol and needing to get logs to the mill so they could get paid. a bit of an aside, about the taller of the tow headed kids standing around the landing in some of the photos. That is me as a 13 year old kid almost sixty years ago. I have now uploaded pictures to photo bucket, so maybe they will post as something easier to look at. I would like to go back and repost the original photos, but probably can't do that. I am posting a photo taken by the same professional photographer in 1959 of the two partners, both looking very optimistic, but problems lay ahead. Logging is like that as most of us know. The next photo is of a Skagit SJ-4 I think. This was in 1962 up Walker Creek and was the partnerships first foray into a high lead show. Looking at the one photo I have of the machine, I think it was being used for yarding and loading and it did not work out well. In fact my brother Gary tells me that the partnership (now down to two) was going to go broke, so they sat down with Gearhart Bendix, one of the partners in the Hi-Ridge mill and asked to be let out of the contract. This was agreed to and Chick Lucas took over the logging for Hi-Ridge Lumber from that time on. I am assuming that the Skagit machine was sold to someone, possibly traded in on a Lima truck mounted shovel with a heel boom and grapple. (photos to follow)
Just a quick comment on the Skagit SJ-4R as it apparently is properly named. According to some searching on the net, it is a bit of a rare machine and was marketed as a "mobile logger" and was a dual purpose short distance yarder and loader on one machine. By short distance, it appears it was intended to yard no more than about 500-600 feet out. I found a sales brochure posted on rusty grapple's site and no other pictures in a brief search. I do remember that the operator had problems with ruining mainline because of it not spooling properly, which may not have had anything to do with the machine itself. "Skadill" recently posted a video on youtube of one of these found rusting away in the brush somewhere. I am in the process of comparing notes with my two younger brothers to try and get dates and places properly in sequence. My last summer working at logging was in 1962, so years and locations kind of blend together.
Yair . . . Sidney43 Mate ain't that the truth . . . we are similar vintage. Thinking back on stuff that happened and trying to put it into sequence with old photo's that show up from time to time . . . it sometimes makes me wonder if they were memories or dreams. Wonderful thread please keep posting. Cheers.
Just a quick note that this thread has not died. Talking to my brothers to get dates and logging sales reasonably correct and then will go back and fix a few earlier posts. Also talking to some people who have more photos to post.
Keep up the good work , looking forward to the next pictures , its amazing what you come up with when you ask an old acquaintance if they have any old logging pictures stored away.
In the post showing the Skagit SJ-4R I dated this as 1962, which was not correct. The actual year appears to have been 1959, as this is when the partnership started logging for the J.F. Sharp mill located on the south edge of Yreka, CA. No one seems to know what happened to the Skagit machine, although it may have been traded in on a Lima shovel and heel boom on a four axle truck. I worked around that Lima cable loader for several summers and cannot clearly recall what make the truck carrier was, although I think it was a Pierce. I do recall it had a gas engine instead of a diesel. The Lima shovel was underpowered with a 175 Cummins coupled to a torque converter and it would stall trying to lift a big sugar pine butt, as they could be pretty heavy. This necessitated loading one end at a time which was not all that uncommon in those days. It was equipped with a Young heel boom and an Enco grapple as I recall. Unfortunately none of the partners were much for taking pictures in those days, so what we have are small and often a bit out of focus. The other major issue with the Lima machine was a bad habit of breaking the front hook roller brackets. Since those are what held the shovel onto the chassis, broken brackets could make the operator pretty nervous. The machine had two single roller brackets in front and two double roller brackets at the rear. Eventually double roller brackets were installed in front also, but it still proved to be problematic. The dealer who took it as a trade in on a Northwest Timbermaster told Dad that the frame was bent putting unequal pressure on the hook rollers, but I wonder if it was the operator not being familiar with air controls. The operator for most of the time I was working summers was John Winningham and he was a very experienced construction crane operator before trying his hand at log loading. The Lima cable loader was used for the period 1959 to about 1965 when the partnership started logging for U.S. Plywood's McCloud operation.
Here are a couple of photos of the Lima as new and unloading a trailer. The log truck and trailer on a landing was probably taken above Callahan, CA on Bolivar peak. We at one point logged right up to the Marble Mountain Wilderness Area boundary, although at that point it was an open meadow with a wire barricade to keep vehicles from driving into the newly designated wilderness area.
Before I move on in time, the Peterbilt shown with the trailer being unloaded belonged to B&L Lumber Transport of Yreka, CA. The "L" in B&L was Howard Lantz and he was the main log hauler for pretty much the entire time the partners logged for J.F Sharp Lumber. He had about ten log trucks and all were Peterbilts as I recall. Other log haulers were Ray Jones and Lester Bagley. Ray Jones owned an International log truck and also had a low bed trailer. Les Bagley owned a Peterbilt which was driven by his son "Toke" Bagley and I might add that the nick name had nothing to do with modern useage of the term.
While logging for J.F Sharp Lumber the partnership logged initially near the head of Seiad Creek, then for two consecutive years on Cade Mountain near Happy Camp, CA. These sales were Seattle Creek number one and Seattle Creek number two. Both were actually in the Thompson creek drainage. Then they moved to a sale on Haight Mountain near Tenant, CA about ten miles east of Hwy 97 which runs north from Weed, CA up into Oregon. Tenant was an old Long-Bell Lumber Co logging camp out on the pine flats north of Mount Shasta. This was all RR logging although early Cats with arches were used in later years to get logs to a commonly used McGiffert loader. McGifferts sat above the tracks and empty cars were pulled forward from behind the machine to be loaded. The mainline RR from Weed, CA north was interesting in that Southern Pacific wanted another route north into Oregon, as there were tunnel issues with the route north over the Siskiyou Mountains into Oregon. Since Southern Pacific owned every other section of land for a distance on either side of a RR route, they had lots of timber to sell but no good way to get it to market. The agreement with Long-Bell Lumber was that the logging mainline would be built to common carrier specs and Long-Bell would get a huge source of timber. When the lumber company was through logging in the area the RR was deeded over to SP in some fashion. I have not looked to see when the mainline was pushed further north into Klamath Falls and on into central Oregon. When we logged out of Tenant there were no power lines to the former company town, which was complete with a roundhouse, company housing and a large Buda diesel generator. Someone had bought the town and was fixing up the houses to sell for retirement homes. We rented one of the houses to live in and they were typical wood company structures. The generator only ran from six in the morning until ten at night and after that you were on your own. Following the logging on Haight mountain in the fall of 1963 , the partnership moved to Cecilville, which is on the Salmon River drainage, a major tributary to the Klamath River. Some logging was done on Deadwood Creek that winter, but two years were spent logging in the Cecilville area and this brought the time line up to the spring of 1965 when They started logging for U.S Plywood at McCloud, CA. Unfortunately I have no pictures of this time period, only memories of when I worked summers for the partners and went to college to learn how not to be a logger.
This is the last black and white image I have to post. We think it was taken in the Ash Creek area east of McCloud. The McCloud flats to the east of the town were typical easy to log pine country and that is what McCloud Lumber Company wanted for the various products the very large mill produced. Like many lumber companies of the time it was a company town with a mercantile store that gave credit and company housing. The rent was cheap and steam heat was provided from the mill boilers. If you lost your job, you lost your home. This was all RR logging and the McCloud River RR was actually a common carrier connecting the Southern Pacific at the town of Mt Shasta to the Great Northern at Beiber as I recall. If you want to read the whole history there is a great book titled "Pine Across the Mountain" that deals with the logging and RR history of this lumber company. In the sixties they were going back over previously logged ground and taking fir that was not wanted in the early days. There was some big timber in places and most was Douglas Fir changing to Shasta Fir and White Fir at higher elevations to the north.
Some more pictures of logging at various places around McCloud. I am told that these were probably taken up Pilgrim Creek north of Hwy 89 to the east of McCloud. Sorry for the poor quality, they will get better as I have some taken with my own cameras.
Sidney43...thanks for all the pictures and explanations. Good job.
Interesting back stories on the photos too. Thanks. I strongly suspect that the Lidgerwood tower skidder's design started with a variation of the McGiffert loader, beefed up, with more drums and a tower added. The last 'pure' Lidgerwood skidder, Number 5 Skidder, came from Vail, where my dad was Superintendent in later years. And yes, I'm trolling, hoping someone from Vail might chime in.
I have posted on the partnership logging out of Tenant, CA and that it was a former Long-Bell Lumber permanent logging camp for that area north of Mt Shasta. A while back I found on You Tube a video that had been taken by the company photographer that is partially in color and is about 11 minutes long. This was one reel of film found by a person at the Black Butte dump outside of Weed, CA. When the company photographer died his wife took all his film reels to the dump. When the person realized what he took home with him he went back to look for the hundreds of other reels, but they had been buried and lost forever. If you watch this film which was converted to digital you will realize the historical treasure that was lost. The film was probably shot in the late 1940's and there is no audio. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aWszU7S4Ug The D-8 sized cat seen in the film had a generator and the cutting crew was using an electric falling saw run by a generator on the Cat. Great images of a McGiffert loader in operation, cat skidding with arches and some views of the mainline RR built to be later turned over to Southern Pacific. The Long-Bell mill at Weed, CA was a full utilization mill. Structural and planed lumber, veneer/plywood, sash and door, box and shook, it was all put to use and marketed. This mill operation was typical of large mills in Northern California up until the mid sixties. In addition to the mill at Weed, there was McCloud Lumber at McCloud, Fruit Growers at Hilt which was right on the Oregon border and Red River (later Fruit Growers) at Westwood near Susanville. Collins Pine at Chester, CA, Diamond Match at Chico, CA, Michigan California at Pino Grande on the Georgetown divide west of Placerville and many others not mentioned.
A few more photos to post on logging for U.S. Plywood at McCloud - These were taken at Johnson Ranch just south of the golf course where some timber that had been left from prior logging was harvested. These are actually a jump ahead in time as they show the 966C that replaced the Northwest model 40. The Northwest replaced the Lima cable loader in about 1965 or 1966, but was in turn sold because it was too slow to move from landing to landing. The logging was going over ground that might have been logged thirty or forty years before and was not just cutting virgin tracts of timber where one landing was just a short distance away. Apparently equipment was being moved in as only the 966 and a Cat D6 where working and employees were pretty much standing around.
I should have noted that the two men looking at the camera and standing beside the 966 loader in the second photo posted yesterday, are my younger brothers. Neal ran the loader and Gary who was just out of the Army was mostly working the landing. These photos are all taken in the days of cat logging and later rubber tired skidders on ground that was not (usually) too steep for that kind of logging. No high lead towers or grapple yarders to be found here, although there were some in use in the area on ground suited to that kind of logging. My dad told me on one of my photo excursions that McCloud was running a big yarder just a few miles away and apparently flying logs over a canyon to keep them out of a watershed, but I didn't make it over to get photos, because one of the choker setters did not show up that day and I ended up working and not taking any photos at all. On that day one of the older cats had been replaced by a Timberjack 505 and I cursed that fast machine as I didn't get enough down time. The logs were quite a skidding distance from the landing and usually I could sit and rest while the cat made the trip. It seemed like I had not more sat down until I heard the sound of the Detroit diesel coming back up the hill. Never have liked those machines to this day, although I loved the sound of the engine. The photo of the Northwest Timbermaster is the only known picture of it unless I can locate some from other sources. These photos are of two different trucking firms being loaded on a typical landing.
Some of the pictures posted and to be posted are not the typical photo of pieces of equipment. I kind of liked to take more personal shots like the last one on post #29 which shows a truck driver using the cheater to tighten the front wrapper while the loader stands on his machine and watches. Going to post a couple of photos of off road trucks and loads, one I took and one by an unknown. Both were too close up to show the truck, mine because I didn't get it in focus and had too long a lens on the camera. One load is pine and the other is fir, so they were taken in different places, the pine load probably up the Pilgrim creek road.
Have to take the opportunity here since I posted the two off highway loads to tell a little story. As the trucks came down the Pilgrim Creek road, just before they would have to enter hwy 89 there was a private road that lead the to the mill about a mile and a half away. The road was rough and potholed , so the truckers got into the habit of ducking onto hwy89, driving the short distance, turning onto mill property and safety. One day a California Hwy Patrolman (weigh master) was lying in wait with his portable scales. In California at that time max weight on five axles was 78,000 lbs and these loads were far beyond that figure. He directed the truck driver to move onto the scales with the drive axles and the truck driver then related that the patrolman started cussing a blue streak. It seems the scales were simply crushed by the the load and no ticket could be issued. There was a stern warning that the next truck driver would simply be arrested if caught on the highway, although I don't know if they actually could have done that? I have been told that the off highway trucks came from around Prineville, Oregon where they were used in winter logging. In northern California there were no off highway trucks, because at some point in the trip to the mill public highways had to be used. McCloud could have used off highway trucks, but due to the favorable ground, the existing miles of mainline trackage and the distance the logging was from the mill, the RR was used to transport logs up to 1963. Tomorrow I am going to post a bit about McCloud River Lumber company along with a photo or two
McCloud River Lumber Company Have to devote a post to the lumber mill that my Dad and his partner logged for from 1965 until he retired in 1985. That is quite a long time for a contract logger and of course there were a few changes along the way. It was a bit interesting when I tried looking up information on the earlier mills like Hi-Ridge and J.F. Sharp, there simply isn't any. Most of these mills disappeared prior to the Internet and they were not big enough to warrant a historian, or a company photographer. They did not found a town, or provide the majority of the jobs for an entire town. McCloud River Lumber Company was founded by two men, Scott and Van Arsdale in March of 1896, although it did not get that name until 1897. The key to success in logging the extensive pine stands around the new mill and to the east lay in building a RR to transport lumber over Snowmans Hill (a spur ridge of Mt. Shasta) to connect with the Southern Pacific at Sisson, later renamed Mt. Shasta City. In 1902 the holdings were sold to a Minnesota investor named Judson Carpenter and later came under common control along with three other lumber mills. Those mills were Shevlin-Hixon in Bend, Oregon - Shevlin-Clarke in Ft. Francis, Ontario and Carpenter-Hixon in Blind River, Ontario. The pine products were jointly marketed under the Shevlin Pine Sales name. The McCloud mill was one of the largest in California and production usually exceeded 500,000 bd ft per day. In hindsight this kind of production did not consider the concept of sustained yield, even though at it's peak the company owned or controlled the timber rights on 600,000 acres which grew mostly east of McCloud. Although this was a large holding, the Red River Lumber Company mill in Westwood, CA owned or controlled over 1,250,000 acres of timber land and the two tracts abutted each other some thirty miles east of McCloud. In 1963 McCloud River Lumber merged with U.S. Plywood Corporation who had a large mill and plywood plant at Anderson, CA just south of Redding, CA. which was about 60 miles to the south. In 1965 the company town of McCloud was sold and the era of employees living in cheap company housing ended. It had been a long, friendly relationship with the company taking care of all maintenance and proving heat and power. The company was often referred to as "Mother McCloud" , but like many good things it came to an end. In 1967 U.S. Plywood merged with Champion International, a large eastern paper producer. The timber lands were managed by Champion Timber lands and over the next few years the last stands of old growth fir were logged. The old style mill was no longer efficient, who needed two shotgun style carriages that could handle logs up to eight feet in diameter and returned so fast that setters could not ride them because of headache problems. A small log mill was built, but it never really worked out well and in the later seventies and early eighties logs were usually hauled to the Anderson, California mill, which is why most of the truckers in that time period were from the Redding area. In 1979 the mill was closed, but was bought in 1980 by P&M Cedar, of Stockton, CA one of the largest producers of wooden pencils in the nation. Most of us are familiar with the yellow #2 pencil with the name Ticonderoga on it, but the market for those pencils was diminishing. The mill on the property closed for good in 2002, although it was not the original large log mill and had not been for a number of years. That ended a little over 100 years of sawmill activity in the town of McCloud, a pure company town, with the exception of the service station along hwy 89.
A couple of photos of equipment on a landing and loading a log truck owned by Leonard Isringhausen of Redding, CA. These photos were probably taken on the west side of McCloud reservoir on Hearst Corporation holdings that were managed and logged by Champion Timberlands at this time. According to the date on the side of the photo they were taken, or at least processed in June of 1974.
Before I move on again, I found a couple of photos that belong in the narrative. The second photo is of the P&M Cedar mill in McCloud that replaced the original large log mill. The first photo is of Hi-Ridge Lumber Co after a new mill was built just outside of Yreka, CA. This was a much larger and more modern mill than the one the partnership started logging for in 1955 that was located in Seiad Valley. Unfortunately with no timber lands of their own, Hi-Ridge got caught in the down market conditions of the early 1980's and had to close. They had bid too much for timber sales and could not weather the economic storm. The mill was eventually torn down and the site sat more or less empty for about fifteen years. Fruit Growers has now purchased the site and is building a pallet mill to utilize small timber from thinning operations on their holdings down the Klamath River.
The next series of pictures and some narrative will cover the logging in the Kosk Creek basin which took place over about ten years. Kosk Creek is almost entirely owned by the Hearst Corporation and yes, that is the well known Hearst of newspaper fame. McCloud River and it's successors had logging rights on this basin which lies about twenty miles east and south of McCloud. It can be accessed via the north gate from a road off of Hwy 89 just east of Bartle, or through the south gate reached from Round Mountain, CA. The basin is about fifteen square miles and has been logged on and off since the 1920's, initially I think by Round Mountain Lumber Co. I observed old jammer style loader sitting off the road down the main branch of Kosk Creek in the early seventies with the name of that entity on it. No camera, so no pictures of it, but it is probably still there since access is limited to the area. These first three images are of two Mack Thermodyn's owned by Dana Spooner of Cottonwood, CA.
Thermodynes were B Models, not R Models.
Vigilant - thank you for the correction on the engines in the Macks. I took the word of my brother who ran the 966 although I thought it didn't sound right. When the photos were taken I had a conversation with Dana Spooner and he mentioned that the truck in the last photo had a 400 Hp engine which he loved as he could pull the several mile adverse up to the summit a gear higher. That is he loved it until he noticed he was wearing his drivers out a lot faster from loss of traction that he had not noticed. I suspect from the HP rating that the engines were Cummins, but the truck experts who read these pages would know a lot more about that. I have been hoping that more people would either comment or post, as I get to feeling a bit lonely on this thread.
Thank YOU, Mister Sidney. I have enjoyed your posts. The only similar nomenclature I recall in the R Model line was Maxidyne and Econodyne, or something similar. Some of the earlier R Models still came with a 673, the Holy Grail of B Model engines. It is possible that some of those early R Models could in fact have been badged as Thermodynes. I drove a few of the early 673-equipped R Models, some with a Duplex and some with a Quadruplex. Pause while I search...... Wait, wait........ There it is. See Post Number 2. http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/11168-thermodyne-and-maxidyne/
I find it ironic that Mack was so proud of their stinking 5-speed Maxitorque. I never cared for them worth a crap. I also suspect that the stinking 5-speed Maxi could very well have cost a few West Coast loggers and others their life, if they met another vehicle coming up a winding hill loaded, had to stop, and then slowly roll back downhill through the tight curves because they did not have a low enough gear to start off in on an uphill grade.
Yair . . . Sidney43. Don't ever feel lonely, I enjoy your clear concise descriptions as to how things were immensely . . . also the pictures of course. Cheers.
Thanks for the link Vigilant. So, it seems likely that the Macks pictured had Maxidyne engines, which could be ordered up to 400Hp from the factory. I guess it would be good to call Mr. Spooner and ask him about that. I suspect he has quite a few pictures of his own and maybe I can get some that are relevant to the thread.
If you speak with him, please ask him what transmissions he ran in those R Models.
Thanks Sidney43 for your interesting stories and pics, hope you got more to tell.... Sigurd
Fascinating thread Sidney. Please keep posting. You really should consider writing a book about your life experiences.
Sure is pretty country to work in.we did some units over there off of dead horse summit about 3-4years ago for roseburg.stopped at Bartle several times for refreshments before heading into it Shasta for the night.took a Sunday drive out around the McCloud reservoir definently want go back and look around some more
A quick detour before I get back to logging and equipment pictures. I have mentioned the Hearst Corporation several times as a big land owner in the area. Many probably don't know about the castle at McCloud, which is not nearly as well known as the one at San Simeon high on the mountain above the Pacific Ocean down toward Santa Barbara, CA. There are two sharp bends on the McCloud River just before it empties into McCloud reservoir. When the lake is full, fisherman and boaters can float or walk to within viewing distance of some of the structures at what is known as "the Bend". The actual site known as Wyntoon is upstream about a half a mile, but it is all part of one holding comprising about 67,000 acres. If you want to get some details there is a lot of information online and the place has quite a history. I have never been there but my Mother and Dad were, as it was a custom on occasion for Wm Randolph Hearst to invite employees of McCloud River Lumber and contract loggers to a little wine tasting. I remember my Dad commenting that they only got served the cheap stuff, but the scenery was beautiful. When the partners were logging one area on the south side of the McCloud River, my brothers and I did a little fishing on the river upstream from the bridge the log trucks crossed. Normally that area is not accessible as it is gated some ways from the river and is all private property. The fishing was great. Here are a few pictures of some of the structures visible from the river to kayakers. .
Thanks for the great pictures and information to go with it all.
Back to logging, or at least some of the other activities that go on more or less behind the scenes. To those of you who logged in BC, Alaska, Washington, or perhaps even Oregon, the concept of watering roads may be a bit foreign to you. In California, with essentially no rain during the logging season, water trucks are required. They keep down the dust and keep the haul roads from potholing, which is really hard on the trucks. Here are some images of support equipment, water trucks, graders, etc. My brother Gary is filling the water truck in one photo. Walter Anderson, one of the partners is running a Cat 12 grader in another. OSHA would have been appalled at the lack of a ROPS on the grader, but one was added later.
Good morning,Sydney43. I am looking for a small bit of onfo. I worked on Vancouver Island on Off highway log trucks for a company based in San Francisco. This was Crown Zellerbach. They sold and sold up here but is there still a company in California?
The basic answer to that question is that Crown-Zellerbach, a company that was started in Clackamas County, Oregon in 1867, ended as a separate corporate entity in 1985 due to the activities of corporate raider Sir James Goldsmith. The entity became a subsidiary of James River Corporation who I think is big in the paper products business. Here are a couple of links: http://socialarchive.iath.virginia.edu/xtf/view?docId=crown-zellerbach-corporation-cr.xml http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...437_1_crown-shares-zellerbach-crown-spokesman I thought the above might be somewhat incomplete, so looked further and found that in 2000 Georgia Pacific bought the Fort James Corporation that included James River and Crown-Zellerbach. In November 2005 Koch Industries bought Georgia Pacific for $21 Billion dollars. I don't know if Crown-Zellerbach still does any business (logging) under that corporate name, or if it is just a shell corporation under GP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia-Pacific
Based on what I have heard, mostly from my late father, it sounds as though Crown Z was a good outfit back in the day. I believe they bought out at least one big outfit back in the days of steam..... Long Bell perhaps?
Looks like an LJ Mack in Post 48. Back in the day at Vail, they ran water trucks in the worst part of the summer. IIRC, they were off-highway fire trucks with some added equipment. They also ran one full-time grader with a radio, and a spare also I believe.
Blk. prince: Anthony Zellerbach from Bavaria started a paper company in San Francisco in 1870. Secondly, California Paper, Willamette Paper and Crown Paper all started between 1860 and 1870. Crown Willamette merged first, date unknown. Then in 1928 Zellerbach and Crown-Willamette merged to form Crown Zellerbach. This was primarily an Oregon / Washington Operation. They later absorbed Washington Pulp and Paper out at Neah Bay, which was a Zellerbach subsidiary. The first I see any inroads into Canada is in 1927 when Willamette forms Canadian Crown Willamette. The subsidiaries and “front companies” are a tangled mess all interrelated. However, you cut it though; CZ officially was formed in 1928. Is that confusing enough??? Much of this info was derived from Crown Zellerbach Loggers published by Loggers World in 1970. CZ Loggers only refers to the US side of the border for their “official” CZ centennial.
Finley Hays also spoke highly of Crown Z. He said they went the extra mile to help him get the photos and info he needed to write that fine book. Mr. Hays owned Loggers' World, for those who might wonder. I suspect Jumbo knew him personally. I believe Mr. Hays was the one who told me Long Bell was bought out by Crown Z. God bless Finley Hays.
Long Bell was bought out by International Paper in 1956.
The link to social archive is a detailed list of all the various corporate names, but Jumbo is correct in that CZ did not actually exist until 1928. The Mack is a 51 or 52 model and was purchased from Ben Waldron of Happy Camp, CA who used it as a log truck from when it was new until about 1963 as I recall.
My mistake. Thanks.
Thanks to all for the input. Personally I was pleased with and happy to work for CZ. The bottom line did matter but the people in charge had respect for the people making the bottom line happen. Have a great day and thank you to all Veterans and Active Service Man and Women of our countries!
A few more pictures of support equipment. In looking at some of the photos of logging in BC because the roads are mainly built on a rock base, logging is able to go on during the winter rains and even with light snow on the ground. In most of N. California the logging roads are primarily dirt and when it rains logging pretty much comes to a halt. In the Kosk Creek basin, the roads were packed dirt and were excellent haul roads when graded, watered and packed by trucks. However, let it rain and the soil became so slick that you could fall down standing on a road that was just a bit off of level. In addition any four wheel drive traffic resulted in terrible rutting and then water erosion from the rain. For that reason the two roads in were gated to try and keep vehicles off the roads during wet weather. It was only a problem during hunting season when the locks were shot off on occasion. One thing I found out early in life was that owning a logging company meant long hours when you could get trucks into the woods. During the summer my dad usually worked at least six days a week, because he felt that if he did the grading on Saturday, or Sunday that was another employee he did not have to have on payroll and overtime avoided. This schedule also avoided having the grader on the roads when trucks were hauling. Weekends were also used to take care of maintenance like changing oil and lubing equipment, so it was usually home on Saturday night to get his clothes washed and back on Sunday afternoon.
My brain is a little slow these days. I was thinking of Clark-Wilson. According to Mr. Hays, Crown Z bought them out. I don't know where I got Long-Bell. I believe I have a photo of Clark-Wilson moving a Lidgerwood tower skidder.... with 5 steam lokies. One of these days, I'll dig it up. It's pretty spectacular.
Another Royal Sierra truck being loaded. A Peterbilt, which is one of the popular trucks in this area of the country.
Last post showed a truck being loaded, this one shows it headed for the mill with a load of second growth logs. If you walked this area there are lots of big stumps from when it was logged twenty and thirty years ago. Time to show some of the hard working machines that drag those logs down to the landing. This is all cat logging, no towers and at this point, no rubber tired skidders, just good old yellow iron. In this photo a D7E, one of the best all around Cats made for logging because it was well balanced and durable.
A photo of a choker setter close up with the area of the Cat that he is most familiar with. I did a bit of choker setting during the four summers I worked in the woods. Worked behind the D8 shown in an early post, several D7's and a Timberjack for one day. It was always a thrill when I had to get the choker under a larger log that was lying tight in a bed of fir boughs. Many times the cat skinner had to get on the other side of the log to feel for the nubbin as I tried to push it through the tangle of branches. The first thing you did before reaching under the log was probe with the choker to see if there was any rattlesnake buzz. Of course the Cat was idling about ten feet away, so it was not really quiet. Over four summers I never did run into a rattlesnake where we were skidding and for that I am thankful. On bigger logs we often had to bridle them, as the chokers were not long enough to give the Cat any space between the log and the winch. This also saved on broken chokers as it essentially halved the strain. Here is a picture of one of the hardest working men on the crew, the landing chaser, knot bumper, whatever the job was called you had to move fast and stay alert. I often worked the landing around the Lima cable loader seen in a few B&W images. This was long before processors, so the fallers cut off limbs that they could reach, the Cats rubbed off some of them and whatever was left sticking out the knot bumper took care of. If you couldn't get them when the Cat pulled in with a skid, then the loader operator would yell at you while loading a truck and you jumped to prune it off. Between that, handling three Cats bringing skids in and unloading the trailers as the trucks came in for another trip it could get very busy. There was also the problem of all the dirt on the knots, so you were sharpening the saw chain when you had a spare moment. Some of my fondest memories are of the sounds of the Cats and the loader, the smell of fresh dirt, diesel and the aroma of fresh cut wood, nothing else quite like it and I feel I was lucky to be there. The man pictured hard at work unhooking chokers is Butch Jones, son of Ray Jones who hauled for the partners for a period of time. He was too busy to get him to smile for the camera.
A photo of the newest Cat, a D6d with powershift. A little faster than the D7's, but just a bit light in the front end for the logs being skidded, so not as well balanced. The HP was comparable, but this tractor was having problems pulling a comparable skid. To make skidding easier, a jib or arch structure was added to the winch to allow the front of the logs to be lifted off the ground, so less drag and that solved the problem. The D6 winching logs up a very steep piece of ground. I mentioned earlier that none of this ground was tower logged, but this particular landing should have been. A grapple yarder would have been ideal here, but a deal was made with the timber managers and the side was logged on a time and materials basis, because the going was slow and slower. One of the cat skinners made a series of switchbacks down the slope and the logs were winched up a bit at a time.
No photos with this post. I have been talking to my brother Gary and doing a little research on Caterpillars. In an earlier post I mentioned that there were two D7e's and that was probably incorrect, although of little consequence. Probably one was a late D7e with 180Hp and one was a D7f also with 180Hp but a different engine, the first being a low RPM four cylinder and the latter a higher RPM six cylinder engine. There was other equipment, but I don't have photos of any of it, as the partners were logging two sides at the same time and it appears when I appeared on site, I went to the Anderson landings. Jerry N apparently had another D7 and the Northwest for a time and another Cat 966 plus the Timberjack skidder. At some point around 1980 the partners did some logging for Sierra Pacific in the Susanville, Ca area. Jerry Neuenschwander decided to continue logging in this area and due to the distance apart and different timber ownership and mills hauled to, the partnership eventually split up in an amicable fashion. Thereafter the company was known as Anderson Logging until Walter Anderson retired around 1985. I do want to pass on an interesting story about the D8 shown first in post #6. In talking to brother Gary last night he mentioned logging a forest service sale around Harris Mountain. They still had the D8 then and had found an arch to use with it. the origins of the tracked arch are fuzzy, but it is likely one of those pictured earlier in the thread near the McCloud mill since there were not a lot of them around to rent, or buy in this time period. In any case the D8 is a powerful cat for logging and with this arch it could bring in quite a large turn. One day a Forest Service timber manager came out to the logging sale and observed the D8 pulling about eleven logs behind the arch. Apparently they were cutting quite a swath through the natural reproduction growth and in his mind causing excessive damage beyond the normal skid trail. My brother says after that day the arch was not seen again. The D8 was soon traded in on either a D7 or the D6. The reasons basically were that the logging had moved into primarily second growth smaller logs and it was not nearly as maneuverable, nor as fast as the smaller cats. Also at one time it was used to do some road building and that was no longer a factor, as all road building under McCloud and successors was done by road building specialists. Compared to the smaller Cats, the D8 was a lot louder and there was no doubt with one was coming to the landing. More photos tomorrow, but nearing the end of Kosk Creek pictures.
A photo of the crew at lunch, some sitting and some a little more relaxed.
That's one of the events that have passed into History , most logging sides in the good old day's , be it a Cat crew , Slackline crew or Highlead crew stopped for lunch. There were always a couple young fellows a senior citizen or two and several guys in between . Lunch break would have its share of Bragging , Politics , Tales and B S . It was usually entertaining and you got to know your fellow worker . In our " Mechanized World " every body has their own pickup , arrives at the work sight by them selves , out of the pickup on to their Machine and the Rat Race begins , sometimes the only contact you have with your fellow worker is with a VHF radio .
Camptramp's comment about the crew eating together and talking is something I had not thought about. Probably because I have not been around a logging side for about thirty years, but looking at the photos posted of grapple yarders and loaders working together I just didn't think about the changes that have taken place. Lunch, or hitting the nose bag was always an interesting half hour. Among the all the topics bandied about, there was always a discussion of how many logs were left up at the head of the cut block and how long it would take to clean up. The partner was always planning on the next move and usually sending a Cat ahead to prepare the landing and start skidding logs to have something there to load trucks out and not have too much down time. Usually there were a few shorties left over because it was pretty hard to back up a partially loaded truck, so the last full load meant it was time to move the landing. When it was time to head back from the end landing there were always logs to be picked up along the way. Planning and logistics were a part of the process of making a profit because you couldn't just run equipment all over the place to get a log here and there. Next photo is of the crew after lunch and the equipment starting to move back up the hill. The Cat in the right foreground is just starting to move and you can just see the exhaust as a bit of discoloration of the background. It is pretty easy to tell that the closest Cat is the oldest D7 due to wear on the paint.
was Royal Sierra affiliated with Redwood Construction ? I think they were a pretty big fleet of log trucks in n.cal. years ago 525
Well, here are the last two pictures of logging in Kosk Creek. I am sure there are others out there, but my inquiries of people who might have some have not yielded any results so far. I will keep trying and hopefully will come up with some to post at a later date. One last picture of the three Cats that started with the crew at lunch and now the D6 is getting a skid unhooked while both D7's are headed up the hill for more logs. This last photo has always been one of my favorite images. It is the skid trail looking toward the landing where the three Cats and crew were in previous posts. If I had been standing in this same spot the two D7's would have come right through that gap. This skid trail was used by whoever logged this area before, as it goes between two large stumps and that is probably why it is so deep as a lot of logs have been dragged through it.
I don't know if there is any relationship between the two trucking firms. I tried to Google for Royal Sierra and found nothing, but in talking to my brothers there was some thought that Royal Sierra might have been part of Sierra Pacific, who the partners logged for and are at this time a large timber land and multi-location mill owner. I sent an email to the contact address at Sierra Pacific, but have had no answer so far. I do have some pictures that will be posted in a few days of when my middle brother logged one summer in the coast redwoods. I think some of the trucks in the photos belonged to Redwood Construction, but am not sure, as the photos were not too clear even after a bit of work.
It is always interesting to see what happens when questions are asked. The question posed by 525isx above caused me to Google Redwood Construction, which found nothing until I added trucking to the name. I found a lengthy article on the man who founded the company and about the massive truck fleet he eventually owned. Here is a link to a great article on Redwood Construction Inc who's trucks will soon be pictured here. http://rootsofmotivepower.com/sites...otive-Power-Highline-2006-April-Vol-24-01.pdf In reading the article, I got answers not only about Royal Sierra Trucking, who's trucks are pictured above, but Boudro Trucking that I also have a picture of. Essentially Dale Boudro was working for Redwood Construction at a shop in Hoopa, CA and in 1973 there was a supply constriction on diesel fuel for truckers, but not "new" truckers. Redwood Construction was taking delivery of 60 brand new Peterbilts and to get fuel, they formed Royal Sierra Trucking as a division of Redwood Const and put them under management of Dale Boudro. These trucks operated as far east as Klamath Falls, OR, Anderson, Burney and Placerville, Ca. The Anderson and Burney locations are of course where they hauled for my dad and his partner. In 1978 as business declined in the redwood logging areas, largely due to the expansion of the national park, Redwood Const was selling trucks to reduce the fleet from the high water mark in 1974 of 256 log trucks and 15 chip trucks. In 1978 they sold 75 trucks to Dale Boudro who was located in Redding, CA who in turn simply renamed them and left the paint scheme the same. Unfortunately by 1980 in a poor lumber market, Boudro could not maintain the payment schedule and the trucks were auctioned off at Redding in 1981. Thank you 525isx for your question.
After finding out the history of Royal Sierra Trucking and of Boudro Transport, I went back to post #29 and looked at the doors of each truck. Sure enough, on the photo of the BTI truck you can see where the circular RSI decal was removed as it left some brighter paint that had been protected from the elements. My best guess is that these photos were taken about a year or so apart, probably between 1977 to 1979. Here are the last two equipment photos showing three Cats and other equipment at the winter shop in Yreka. The shop space was shared on a rental basis with Ray Jones, as he owned the shop and land. After Ray stopped driving log truck, he went into a partnership with another local man, Ed Meek and they bought a modern well drilling rig. Because the local area is mountainous and rocky it was a rotary rig and looked like a gas well drilling rig, although a bit smaller. I really can't remember which one is later, or exactly what years they were taken. This second photo shows the Early 1950's GMC that was owned by Jerry Neuenschwander and brought to Seiad Valley as a log truck when the partners started logging in 1954. After it was retired as a log truck a large round water tank was mounted and it watered road for a number of years. The tank was 4,500 gallons capacity as I recall and the truck was really too light for that much weight. When a better water truck was purchased, the GMC was converted to fuel truck duty and I pumped many gallons of diesel into the Cats from the larger of two tanks. In this picture, probably taken about 1984, it is looking a bit the worse for wear, but still running and dependable some thirty years later.
good pics Sidney, cheers for sharing. Done abit of tractor logging for a few years, now just involved with forestry roading work. Liked the pic of everyone sitting down at nosebag break ! Ive always stopped and done this and always will 99% of the time. Gives people a rest and refreshes them. Even here on the opposite end of the pacific ocean, logger crews just keep going all day; 'gotta keep up production'. They have all this health and safety ******** paperwork, but something important like a break is ignored. Have a lot of accidents over here in the logging industry. Government has told the industry to 'clean its act up. or we will'. Dedicated breaks would be first place to start !
Just two more pictures on the Anderson Logging story and then on to some logging in the Redwoods on the California coast. The first picture shows one of the 966 loaders on a low bed being hauled somewhere. I am not sure where this was taken, but possibly at Pondosa, CA where the partners logged some small parcels one summer. Pondosa was a McCloud River permanent logging camp about twenty five miles east of McCloud and a RR maintenance depot. Don't even know who's truck it is, but as usual it is a Peterbilt. While thinking about this thread and comparing it to all the others here that I have read, one thing stands out. My Dad's logging company was not a large operation like Edwards & Assoc, CANFOR, BCFP, or McMillan-Bloedel who had huge inventories of expensive equipment and painted them all to a common scheme. I guess he was an average logger who just bought equipment that suited a need and it was left in whatever color it was painted. The only time the company name was painted on a piece of equipment was if the dealer had it done, as was the case of the Lima and Northwest cable loaders. The Caterpillar equipment just had a dealer sticker on them, although I think the old GMC fuel truck still had Seiad Logging on the door that had not been replaced if memory serves me right. The end of the company came in 1985 when Champion Timberlands only wanted to let a contract on one timber sale because of market conditions. Porteous Logging of Mt. Shasta submitted a lower bid and there was no point in bidding a sale just to keep the equipment busy. So, it was time to retire, as he was turning 65 that year and the employees, some of whom had logged with the company for quite a while were notified of the lack of work. After about a month Champion contacted Walter and told him they did not want to lose him as a logger because of the work he had done for them over twenty years. The said they would make another sale available at the bit price if he wanted to log it. He contacted his regular employees and found they had almost all found other jobs. He told Champion that he didn't feel he could do a good job for them with a new crew and so while he appreciated the opportunity, he would decline. The equipment was all paid for and so was sold off a piece at a time so as to not enrich the Government tax collector too much. One amusing little story that I remember is the work PU was backed up to one half of the two car garage and the mechanic's tool box and the rest of the contents of the PU bed were deposited on the floor. They sat there until we had to sort them out after Walters passing in 1994. He never used any of the items, they just sat there taking up space until we as his sons had to deal with it. This last picture shows what I brought home and hung on a tree by the yard. Don't know where the 16" Skookum block was used, but probably as a corner block on the Skagit SJ-4 in 1959.
Still in N. California, but now over on the coast in the Redwoods. My brother Gary went to Humbolt State College at Arcata, CA and one summer or maybe two (will have to check) set chokers on the big trees. This was cat logging and the D8 was standard along with a wheeled arch. The skidding Cats did not have blades, but just a bumper to push a tree out of the way if needed. The only Cat with a blade was one used to prepare a falling bed for the big Redwoods, because the wood is fairly brittle and valuable, so a lot of care was taken not to break them. He was offered the job of operating the bed prep cat, but really didn't feel he had enough experience at the time. A lot of contrast in the photos, so not as detailed as could be.
Talked to my Brother when I was up in Yreka the last few days. The Redwood logging photos were taken in the summer of 1975-75 logging for Louisiana Pacific above Redwood Creek. He says these were off road trucks, but the photos do not show the trucks well enough to establish that. The trucks were from Redwood Construction, a very large log hauler, as discussed a few posts prior. These appear to be Peterbilt's. The cable loader was a Lima shovel originally designed as a 2 1/2 yard capacity machine. The grapple configuration is very interesting and some other photos will show this in more detail. Because of the ability to move the entire grapple forward, short logs could be loaded on the front of the load.
Another view of the Lima cable loader sorting logs.
Was that a L.P.company side? Or a gypo that you brother was working for on the coast?
As I recall he said it was an LP company side, but I will check with him and give you a definite answer. I am trying to identify the model of the Lima shovel, but not having any luck so far. It is smaller than a 2400 which would take buckets from six to eight yards. Gary said it was a 2 1/2 yard shovel which at one time was a bigger machine and then they got really big, mostly for overburden stripping.
It would be real interesting to know where above redwood creek those pictures were taken. I work out there in that area a lot.
Did a little more research and am of the opinion that the shovel is a Lima model 1201 which was made from 1939 to 1959 when it was dropped from production and replaced by the model 2400. The 1201 was typically a 3 to 3 1/2 yard shovel and usually weighed about 100 tons, whereas the 2400 weighed about 218 tons. The stick is a little different configuration than in this photo, but the style of the dipper is the same and it would be about the right vintage.
hoechucker - I will email him tonight and ask him to read this part of the thread and let me know (if he can remember)
Couple of things - noticed a bit up the thread that I said the Redwood pictures were take in summers of 1975-75, was supposed to read 1975-76 of course. In answer to where above Redwood Creek the pictures were taken, my brother says he can't remember exactly, except they were way back near the end of LP's holdings and it was a company side he worked on. On the Lima cable loader, I forgot to mention that these were powered by a big Cummins "L" series engine. The motor was commonly found only in large shovels/cranes, marine, gen sets, or small locomotives as motive power. They were 7" bore by 10" stroke for 2309 cu in displacement and were rated at 250 HP at 1,000 RPM's. The starter motor was a Wisconsin V-4 or the like coupled to the Cummins by six v-belts. Skadill has a video of one of these shovel in derelict condition online, but didn't link to it.
Looks like Berger-Rees air tongs on the stick.
I think you are correct on the Berger-Rees air tongs and I found where you mentioned them on another thread on this forum. Do you still have that thesis? Earlier I referred to the boom on this shovel loader as a stick and I guess sometimes booms on a crane are referred to as "the stick" but on this Lima it should be the boom and the stick is the dipper stick that has the air tongs attached. If the loader wants to load forward he "crowds" the stick out to extend the reach. That makes this machine a lot more versatile than a machine with a standard heel boom and grapple.
Yes, I still have it. Somewhere, along with a few really nice old logging photos from the days of steam. Long live the last remaining Lidgerwood Tower Skidder. Based on the world I lived in back in the day, you are correct about the dipper stick nomenclature. My dad had an LS108 at Vail with a dipper stick setup, and I believe he had those same tongs on it. Mr. Cotton McCauley ran that shovel. In those parts, a heel boom loader, dipper stick loader, and shovel were all referred to as 'shovels'.
A photo of a truck leaving the landing with some nice Redwood logs aboard. Hard to see what make the truck is from this photo.
looks like peterbilt (battery box/ step under door)
From what I read in that article on the man who built Redwood Construction into a huge log trucking business, he mostly bought Peterbilt's, although there were some other brands tried. He generally used GM diesels as motive power in the trucks and was such a good customer that GM would send new engines out to have him test them in the real world. I guess the off road Peterbilt's typically have the heavy duty front fenders like you see on a Pacific, or Hayes?
Here's a photo of my brother Gary posing by a large Redwood log. I think he said this one was around 14' at the butt cut.
Another photo of a Redwood Construction truck being loaded with some smaller logs. If the camera would have been a bit further back we might have been able to tell what model truck it was. My brother said these were all off highway trucks, but obviously not Pacifics, or Hayes as we usually see up north. Another photo of my brother posing in front of a large Redwood log at the second cut. Maybe this one was the 14 footer, or maybe it is the same tree?
One wouldn't want to get a saw pinched , then have to use an axe to chop it out .
525isx - I came to the same conclusion as you did, because the tires look to be a common size for highway rigs. I guess nothing to worry about, but it is just a bit confusing because my brother was well aware of what a normal sized logging truck looked like and his comment was to the effect that these were much bigger. There is the possibility that he simply did not get pictures of the big trucks, as something had to haul those large logs pictured and a 14' Redwood was not going to fit on 8' bunks with stakes. I do know in the early days with small trucks, they often split the large logs, but in the mid 70's the wood was likely too valuable to be doing that . Then again, loggers are very resourceful and I should ask him about it (again).
Another Redwood logging photo, decking logs as wheeled arch disappears behind the shovel. A load of logs headed for the mill. Redwoods were able to resist pretty hot fires because of the very thick bark, but I suspect that fires like we see inland were much less common near the coast. Note the heavy fire scarring on the rear top log.
Photo of the Lima shovel either decking, or getting ready to load a large Redwood log. Can't tell from the photo if the log is being lifted by the Berger air tongs, or is strapped, which was not uncommon on some of the larger logs. Another photo of what appears to be the same log being loaded. From this picture it is clear that the Berger tongs are being used.
Country folks like me have a means of preventing such dilemas. It's called a wedge. ROFL! Sorry, sir. Couldn't resist.
Sounds like your fully experienced and qualified .
One last picture of the big Redwood and I have confirmed that it is one large tree that has three views of it. Should have used this one first as the contrast is better and I can actually see my brothers face, although the finish of the print was the wrong choice to have scanned at a later date. I talked to my brother today and got some back story on questions that have occurred to me and from others who have posted. The first question was about off road -vs- Highway trucks. The trucking job involved hauling logs from the landings in the upper reaches of Redwood Creek down to a reload located at Big Lagoon, which had been used to transfer logs onto RR cars to be hauled to the mill at Samoa, CA. In the mid seventies, trucks hauled logs to the reload and from there to the mill they were all highway legal loads. There were some off highway trucks and I could only find out that they were old and slow, but lots of over weight loads were piled on the highway trucks to be hauled to the reload. A story was told about one highway truck that was piled high and about two hundred feet from the landing it just layed over on it's side because of being too top heavy I guess. The article on Redwood Construction trucking that was linked to earlier mentions that there were a number of off road trucks purchased from Albion Lumber Co when it closed in 1953. These were all Peterbilts with bunks from 9 to 12 feet wide, but further on in the article it mentions all the older trucks were traded in on some Autocars, which was not the only time Redwood Construction owned that brand truck. Whether all the old Peterbilts, likely from the late 1940's were traded in, or were still hauling logs in the mid seventies is unknown. He did mention that there were no wrappers put on the loads and for the most part the logs stayed in place. The really big Redwood log pictured was a bit of an anomaly this far from the coast. Most of the Redwoods were smaller and there was a lot of pretty good sized fir, some of them up to six feet in diameter. For a tree that tall to survive it had to be growing in a protected area, as there are considerable wind forces on a free standing tree that large. It is interesting that some of the Redwoods show fire scarring, but this big one does not. I suspect that the fir trees were a lot younger than most of the larger Redwoods which must have survived some intense fires at some time in the past. Handling the really big Redwood logs was a challenge. The company did not look with favor on the Berger tongs ripping out of a prime Redwood log, as this damaged a lot of good wood. The big logs were often split with a wedge attachment placed on the blade of the bed prep Cat. Most of the Redwood logs had some natural cracks and would easily split, which made them easier to load and haul. I am told that even with a heavy loading shovel like the Lima, if the tongs were crowded too far ahead, the Lima would get a bit light in the rear and start to tip forward. For that reason bigger logs were usually loaded somewhat to the rear and then pushed forward by another log. LP was also logging an area those two summers (75-76) where they had agreed not to put a road down close to Redwood Creek. For these sides they brought in a large Washington yarder but even that machine had problems. My brother mentions it was tipped over several times when guyline stumps pulled out and several tubes were buckled because of very large logs. He said they had one chain saw with an auger that they would use to drill some of the larger Redwoods and a small charge of dynamite would split the log to make easier yarding. The haul roads were all rocked so that all weather hauling could be done. My brother suspects that the Lima shovel was originally used to dig quarry rock for the roads and then was converted to load logs. He said it was a very reliable machine and seldom was down for any kind of repair. One last bit of information on chokers. He said they were one inch cable and usually 26 feet long, although extenders were carried on the Cats if extra length was needed on bigger logs.
Another photo of a D-8 with arch and a turn of Redwood logs. The standing trees gives some idea of what they were leaving for future growth, although other photos show what looks like clear cutting. Coastal Redwoods are among the fastest growing of any tree, reaching 80 feet in a relatively short time. I have four of them planted in a group at my home, which is hardly ideal habitat and they are about forty to fifty feet tall after fifteen years. It does take a long time for a tree to mature to the size of the big fourteen footer.
The snattlerakes would keep me away. Ever know someone who was bitten? Unless you had some antivenin in the crummy, I doubt that one would stand much chance of survival.
When I was working summers in the woods, it was always in rattlesnake country, but they were seldom seen. There were lots of theories about the sound of the chain saws driving them away, the machinery moving about, etc. I think it was more about whether there was a den in the vicinity that meant there were more of them in a particular area. I always thought more about it when I was lying next to a bigger log trying to poke a choker nubbin through a tangle of fir boughs. The question was always, will they rattle, or just grab onto my hand or arm. Yes I saw a few, but most of them were on one landing that had a creek just up the road a hundred feet past where the fuel truck was parked. Saw three of them one night, snakes need water also, so we both retreated, me with an elevated heart rate and they buzzing a warning that they didn't like being disturbed as they crawled into the fill rocks above the culvert. Usually they were seen when it was early in the morning and colder, so they were not as active and could not crawl out of sight as fast. One story I remember is kind of typical and involved a tree that was marked for cutting but it stood about fifty feet above a creek and on a steep bank. Because of regulations it could not be fallen into the creek and had to go uphill, problem was it leaned downhill a bit. A cable was attached about thirty feet up the trunk and a Cat put tension on it to pull it uphill, but hopefully not on top of the Cat as they didn't have a hundred fifty feet of cable handy. The faller, who was not a real faller, but one of the crew who volunteered, created a path off the the side so he could make a quick escape when the tree started to fall. There were about four or five false starts where the saw was pulled out and the faller ran to the end of the escape trail some forty feet away. Of course when he reached the end of the escape route he stood there to watch the tree. When the tree finally did fall and he put the saw down, he realized there was a rattlesnake coiled up in the very cool morning about two or three feet from where he was standing and had been standing each time he ran down the escape route. It never rattled and never struck, but more elevated heart rate was the order of the day. I guess the same thing occurred when out deer hunting. In twenty or so years of hunting, I never saw a rattlesnake, although I looked for a lot of them. I did see one camping one time and did see one when out fire fighting one summer in 1961. That is an interesting story in itself, so here it is. The Forest Service in those days would shut down all logging and ask for volunteers to report to the Unemployment office when they would get a big lightning storm, usually with no rain, so lots of little fires, burning snags, etc. That summer I was sent down to Oak Knoll Ranger Station on the Klamath River and the next morning accompanied an older (about 50) Forest Service employee to go out and look for a small fire. This was all before aircraft patrols, so they relied on look out reports. We were walking across a grassy meadow, with some larger rocks and blackberry bushes, which meant there was a bit of water there. I was following this FS employee, who was a bit overweight, actually quite a bit overweight when he suddenly went straight up in the air and levitated forward about five feet before returning to the ground. My mouth must have been gaping open, because I had never see anyone make that kind of motion in my life, particularly someone in his shape. I stopped and he yelled "snake" as he turned around to look at me. Sure enough he had just about stepped on a large rattler that was sleeping as we walked up on him. We dispatched the snake and it had either eleven or twelve rattled and was about four and a half feet long. I know this sounds like an exaggeration, but I swear that I can see that impossible movement he made as clearly in my mind as if it happened yesterday. Nope, we never had anti venom on site, guess we just would have had to make a quick run to the hospital, or called for a helicopter. Of course everyone wore high boots and that might have helped. I guess you never worry about something that didn't happen, yellow jacket bees were more of a worry, particularly for the Cat skinners.
Ah yes, I know about those bees.
photo of a heavy load on a highway truck heading for the reload to get legal.
Just took a look at the last photo posted and the large bunk log is a Doug fir I believe and a pretty good sized one at that . Just for a change of pace and since I am just about out of pictures unless some of the people I have been trying to get photos from come through, here is a picture of my brother Gary, sawing off a knot to make the loaders job easier. He is using a Homelite saw, not sure of the model, but it was more or less the standard for logging at that time. The partners had a lot of them and since I didn't know better I thought they were a pretty good saw. No compression release, so hard cranking, slow chain speed and fairly heavy, but they were what we had and they got the job done. When my dad retired in about 1985, he gave me three of them, two ran OK and one was good for parts, so he told me I could use them for wood cutting. Along the way, my brother had upgraded to a Pioneer he bought from a professional faller, but I struggled with them for about fifteen years. One day I had an epiphany, why not see if I could get some money on a trade for a nice, modern Husqvarna. I took them to a local small engine, mower shop and he gave me fifty dollars credit toward a Husky model 55 with a 24" bar. Best decision I ever made when it came to chain saws and I still have that saw and a smaller model 036. Could have bought a Stihl, as they were the hot item for a while, but because I was a Swede by ancestry the Husky won out.
Looks like a Homelite 925.
I little ways back I mentioned a Forest Service sale out of McCloud where A&N Logging was using a D8 (14A) to pull a tracked arch. It has dawned on me that while I posted a photo of those arches it was in another thread, so here is the same picture of a row of retired arches sitting near the McCloud River mill.
Time to move on from my Dad's logging company, which was the original focus of the thread. Since I knew the photo's of that company were limited, the title was kept rather general so other loggers and logging companies could be posted as long as they operated in Northern California in some time period. I am in contact with a growing group of people who may provide some additional pictures, so will see what happens. That said, I will be posting some pictures taken a month or so ago in Yreka, CA. A few years ago the yard around the shop was crowded with logging equipment sitting idle because of the economy. Unfortunately, I waited too long to get pictures and most of it has been sold off, but a few interesting old pieces remain as well as some current trucks that were once part of a larger fleet of log haulers. This equipment belongs to Ed Fredericks and as you will see later he operates Kenworth's as did his father. These photos are of an old Prentice 690B hydraulic loader that probably dates from the 1970's.
Time for a another photo or two of some old machinery and a little history. This old forklift sits near the Prentice loader in Yreka and has the name of a long vanished lumber company on it. Usually there is no way to find out about old companies unless they were pretty large. The Dolly Varden Lumber Company was not large and if it were not for a law suit that reached the appellate level in California's civil legal system there would not be a mention. However from an online analysis of a lawsuit, I know that the Dolly Varden Lumber Co was a sawmill located in Arcata, CA and may in fact be a distant piece of what is now the Sierra Pacific sawmills and timber holdings. In any case here is a relatively ancient Hyster forklift, one of those with dual front wheels and a single dual wheel at the rear. The lumber mill it once worked at was operating in 1950 and this forklift is from about that vintage. It was used around the shops as a shop mule and may even still run, but it looks like it has sat in the same place for quite a while.
Another photo of the old Hyster fork lift and along side it a logging trailer sits minus a few tires, quietly rusting away. There were a number of short log trailers also parked in this yard and I thought that I recorded them, but appears it didn't happen. An older Kenworth converted to dump truck duties. Probably used to haul rock for road maintenance.
A few more pieces of iron sitting in the yard. Another log trailer and some bunks/stakes from when the logging was a going well enough to keep more trucks hauling logs. An old Cat 966, probably a "C" model as they were very popular and a good all around machine. This one obviously still runs as the tracks in the dirt are fresh.
Skadill recently posted a few photos of some engines sitting in a yard, removed from the vehicles they once powered. Maybe they were worn out, maybe broken, or perhaps the engine had just outlived the vehicle it once powered. Here are a few photos of truck engines sitting along side a shop, partially covered as though they might be used again, but then again they might just be scrap value to the owner.
Did not realize it had been so long since I posted, so here is an image of an older truck cab sitting among some worn out parts. Probably off of a wrecked truck, but that is just a guess on my part. And here is a photo of one of the current trucks, still using the same color scheme more or less.
A few more views of local log trucks parked for the weekend. Kenworths are the favored brand for this owner.
Is that three sleepers we see sitting on the ground in the background with the same paint scheme? Does he run trucks on the road also?
I don't know the whole story, but suspect the owner has tried to use his trucks for other kinds of hauling when logging slowed drastically. As I mentioned earlier this shop yard was filled with equipment a few years ago and I didn't get pictures. The truck fleet was larger, but not sure how big, so need to ask my brother. As I recall these three trucks had 8,9 and 10 on them, although the numbers do not show up in the photos.
Sidney43 I am looking for a possible relative of my wife who you have mentioned in this post tread his name is Toke Bagley if you know how i might be able to contact him please get ahold of me. Thank you
Looks like a heck of a load for a highway truck. I'll bet that if the truck could talk, it would be saying ouch. (see frame # 96)
At the very least, I doubt that it will ever be able to reproduce.
To SemperFi1986 - I have responded to your inquiry via email to you.
Sidney43 do you have anymore pictures? I really enjoyed this thread
I remember that there were a couple of Kenworths and an International that were for sale last year on craigslist that looked like they came from that yard. I think that they ended up in Left Coast's yard for dismantling. They were maroon in color.
Absolutely amazing thread. Wow! My Dad (Jesse Barnes) was a logging truck owner in the Arcata, Weed, Happy Camp areas. He was bringing a load down and stopped to re-gripe his load when it fell on him. He supposedly smoked a half pack of cigarettes before he died and was buried in Eureka, CA.. I was born in Arcata in 1949 but was 4 when my Dad was killed, so that was about 62 years ago. My Mom moved us to Rocklin, Ca and I grew up in the Granite Bay area, graduating from Oakmont High in 1967. I still live locally, in the Newcastle area. I have faint memories of living in a tent in the mountains during the summers while my Dad worked. I read your entire thread as carefully as possible because I know very little about that time or my Dad's accident. No one seems to know much of anything or at least they aren't saying anything. My uncle, Art Barnes, was a dozer operator but I don't know much about his work. If there is any chance anyone knew my Dad or about his death I'd really appreciate hearing from you. Thanks and I hope your thread hasn't ended.
To firetransport - sorry, I ran out of photos and am looking for others either related to my dads logging, or just northern California logging in general. There have got to be tons of them that could be posted if I can contact the right people. To brucelee - Your dad's trucking activities were just a little before our time in N. California, as my dad started in 1954 in Seiad Valley. I went to school in Happy Camp, Yreka and Jr. College at Weed. I now live in Idaho (as of a week ago), but lived for years in Roseville, CA and my daughter and son attended Oakmont HS but well after you did . The problem you have in trying to find out about your dad and uncle is the sad fact that most people who would have known them have passed on themselves. If family can't give you some history, it is going to be difficult to get any information at this time. Best of luck to you in your search and thanks for the kind comments.
Everyone, including my family, is fairly tight lipped. It's as if they were convinced to not speak about the accident or whoever employed my Dad was afraid of the authorities finding out his load may have been excessive/dangerous. But you'd think there would be an investigation or coroners findings. I don't know but it's the reason I contacted you is because your family was doing what my Dad was involved in. But, another dead end. Thanks for responding though.
If you know which county in N. Calif the accident occurred in, the coroner must have done an inquest, or the sheriff's office would have a report. No doubt archived, but there would still be a record by name to tell them where to look. Those are public records, at least to a relative, so a phone call should provide some info . IIRC there are five counties that might have information. Del Norte, Humboldt, Siskiyou, Shasta and Trinity. The other counties would seem to be too far south from what information you gave in an earlier post. When you look at the equipment early loggers had to work with, it is no wonder there were accidents and even today it is a dangerous occupation.
Thank you for your amazing Thread! I grew up in Seiad Valley in the 1970's! In the picture of Seiad, where was the picture taken from? I see that it is facing Hamburg (towards the East). I grew up in Pete & Maxine Malloy's old house, directly across from the Seiad School. In fact, my Dad watched the home being built while he was stationed at the Seiad Work Station (summer with the US Forest Service). I have a lot of cool memories there as a kid!
Elder Elmer "Chic" Lucas from Seiad Valley, CA Well...there is a name that I recognize! E.E. Lucas was the dominate Logger of Klamath River for several years. I remember him landing his Helicopter in our neighbors yard (Lee West's place). I grew up a big fan of E.E. Lucas Logging. He moved his whole Logging operation out to Yreka, I believe it was in 1974-75.
Responding to APIPREZ - The photo you refer to was taken from the front yard of a house that was located to the west of "the Grove" where dredger housing was located. As you turned left off of the Seiad Creek road toward "the Grove" another road branched to the left again and a house sat alone up against the tree line where the hills rose up toward "the Devils". One of the original three partners rented that house, his name was "Bud" Perkins. Yes, "Chick Lucas" really became a large operator in the 1960's and 70's. At one time I think he had up to seven "sides" running at the same time and he used a helicopter to go from one side to another to save time. I don't recall if all of his sides were using yarders, or some were cat sides. I do know he had at least three yarders and maybe more. Unfortunately, the downturn in lumber pricing in the early eighties did him in. His shop in Yreka sat where the Ford dealership is now. It is interesting to see you are from Roseville, where I lived for 36 years before moving to SW Idaho last year, thanks for posting on this thread. When living down the river we spent a lot of time around the Forest Service station in Seiad. The head ranger had two sons and we were the same age. As I type this I am trying to remember their names, but lack of coffee is preventing it (maybe it's the coffee).
Old Pictures of Seiad If you have some old pictures of Seiad, maybe you could email them to me at [email protected] . Did you go to Seiad School? Did you know Harry or Larry Thomas? Did you know Mark Crawford (a long time Logger owns a lot in Seiad and Yreka), he still lives up Walker Creek? Was Maxine Malloy the Post Master? UPS bought Lucas' old shop in Yreka in 1984 (I could be wrong on the date), but UPS is still there. As a kid I still remember seeing his helicopter out by the shop, when we lived in Yreka.
For whatever reason I cannot seem to upload the pictures
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Here are some pics of my a model kw and murray 16 tire back in 1987 bootlegging this Liebherr shovel after the 9 axle lowbed dropped it off at cabbage patch on highway 4, then I hauled it to salt springs area up highway 88 in Amador county.
This was taken in 2011 of a old loader converted to a yarder in the area, not sure of the make; I believe it's one of Mark Crawford's equipment (Mark Crawford Logging). He is a long-time logger in the area who might be worth a call to talk about the old times. Next time you are in Yreka, drive north of town on Hwy 263 and you will see his yard full of old stuff.
Is Mark Crawford any relation to Gene and Willard Crawford from over in Scott Valley? The Crawfords were fallers that contracted with my dad for felling and bucking when it was still done the old fashioned way. This was when my dad was logging at Callahan up on Boliver Mt., at times right up against the wilderness area boundary. That converted yarder is very interesting, because it looks just like a loader my dad had when they were logging out of Callahan. I say looks like it because the carrier is the same cab design and is a four axle chassis. When I worked around it the loader was lima with an elevated cab. There is a picture of it elsewhere in this thread.
Probably some relation, he’s been around here a long time. And is fond of heel boom loaders: here’s another one of his: