I have "Non-commercial" plates on our 1999 F350. I will probably switch these to farm plates based on the recommendation of a neighbor (northern MN). Considering machines up to ~11-12,000 pounds (I am considering a Kubota SVL90-2), can any Minnesota neighbors advise me on a gooseneck trailer setup that would not require CDL? The limit is 26,000lb altogether - is that correct? I'd be looking at used trailers (7k axles I am guessing). Thanks!
Oh no, here we go again. There are as many opinions on this as there are members. In general terms from my farm hauling experience , (actual farmer not 2 chickens and an apple tree kind of farmer), a farm plated vehicle and trailer are exempt from cdl requirements but not commercial vehicle requirements. Around here they look at the tag on the truck and the trailer when weighing them. As long as the axle weights are under tag you are ok. Never had an inspector care about the manufacturers recommended combined weight as long as each vehicle is under tag and your registered limit. Around here we can't just raise the registered limit to suit our needs. I'm told some states can. No cdl up to and including semis with farm tags. Do need medical card and maybe a log. We have commercial insurance. Been stopped many times and never an issue. Except one inspector who didn't know how electric brakes worked. Now all this only applies if you are an actual farmer hauling for yourself and not for hire. Do not get caught with farm tags doing anything for hire or moving stuff that isn’t your own.
yep sorry - I know this is a contentious issue. I had a guy tell me just to haul on the weekend and as long as I am not driving a dually I should be okay But I hope to prevent pain and expense by choosing a machine and trailer that I can tow with an F350 and be fine without a special license. For the 3-4 times a year I'd be doing it to either bring a machine to service or to one other location to do a project or two, that would be ideal!
Yep - this will only be my own equipment, and never would be for hire. We just have a rustic lake property 70mi away I want to be able to work on a few times a year, and want to be able to get a machine in for service ~40mi away when needed.
Okay, so to dumb this down (for me)... And BTW I will be completely honest, we are homesteaders, I'm absolutely a "farmer in name only" with a food forest and an orchard. It just happens that I have an unrelated music/technology business I operate on the property, that and homeschooling is how we do life. But we're on a remote property where we do our best to be self-sufficient so I think it's completely appropriate to have farm plates. So are you telling me that the 26,000lb limit wouldn't necessarily apply and I could theoretically haul a 11-12,000lb machine (like a big Bobcat/CAT CTL or Kubota SVL90) on a deck-over goose neck trailer with a single-rear-wheel F350 and be OK? The stipulation is that it is NOT for hire and all equipment is ours?
You really need to look up the regs in MN. In CT you can have a truck gvw up to 25,999 and pull a trailer up to 10,000 gvw. If you go over the 10,000 gvw on the trailer you need a CDL, if you go over the 25,999 and trailer or no trailer, you need a CDL. So technically here you wouldn't even be able to have the trailer with the correct gvw to haul the SVL90 LEGALLY without a CDL. I have no idea what the regs are for farm plates here though.
according to this page I may be okay in MN hauling a large CTL provided the truck has farm tags, since I would always be within a 150mi radius and never for hire: Am I understanding this correctly?
With farm plates in CT cdl is not needed if you are on farm business. You cannot use farm vehicles for personal use .You must have a legally registered farm business. Even going to the big orange box to get a kitchen sink is not allowed. Now if you happen to buy a bunch of fence posts and a sink that is usually ok. As for the trailer, what Tags posted above is correct without farm plates. The 10k trailer limit is a violation that trips many people up. I have no idea how things are in MN, but I know lots of farmers in many states who drive a lot of farm trucks with no cdl. How remote you are also helps. In some places everyone has farm plates, nobody really pays any attention unless you do something stupid. Best thing is to check with your local DMV enforcement.
You are not required to have commercial plates for farm use. This means hauling ag products. If you are hauling your skid steer to your other property 80 miles away to work on said property, that is not ag. I was ticketed for hauling 3 snowmobiles on my ag licensed trailer a number of years ago. We were traveling to look at a timber sale which is classified as ag but we got the ticket anyway. The officer said to tell it to the judge. For a $75.00 fine its hard to justify losing $500.00 to try to win a case over $75.00 even if you feel you are right. I put regular plates on my 12,000 lb. trailer and they turned out to be cheaper by $3.00. You are not going to haul much of a skid steer on a gooseneck and stay under 26,000 gross. You will still be subject to inspections, etc, with your farm plates. I recommend you get you CDL, put regular plates on your vehicle and trailer, and be hassle free. You can take your CDL test with your gooseneck. It will license you up to that size rig. No air brake indorsement required. Put not for hire stickers on your truck and trailer and you will normally be left alone. Your farm plates are only good for 150 miles radius unless they changed it recently. Unless you have farm plates on both the truck and trailer you are technically by law still not exempt from anything. Do you take your truck very far from home? As you are not for hire you can get a medical exemption on your CDL. I have one. Just go to the DMV office and have them punch it into the computer. If it doesn't go thru try again the next day. The MN DMV computer system is a mess. That's what the gals at Moose Lake told me. My medical card exemption went thru on the first try. You can still haul your own stuff with the medical exemption as long as you are not hauling it to do paid work. Another thing folks are getting wrote up on is being under insured. Make sure your insurance policy covers the total weight of truck, trailer, and load you will carry. They have been ticketing overweight log trucks that are insured for the legal weight for under insurance. Cost more than the overweight fine in many cases. You will be way cheaper and no worries to just do it right.
thanks @old-iron-habit ! The other place we would haul to is on Hanging Horn Lake, and our mailing address is there Moose Lake (although we have no mailbox ). How much of a pain (in terms of cost and time) will it be for me to get a CDL? Our homestead is in Two Harbors so I guess I would be dealing with Lake County. Alternately, should I focus only on machines that will keep me under the 26,000 limit? what would that be, ~8,000lb?
Pick up the free CDL book at any DMV office. Read it and take the written test at the main DMV office in West Duluth. It will be multiple choice and common sense. Two trick questions out of 100. All answers are right on them two so no one is good enough to get 100%. Then you can practice driving as long as you are empty, in daylight, and under the 26,000. Over 26,000 you would need a CDL driver with you. The test is just driving around a few blocks and backing up making a easy drivers side 90 degree left hand turn over at Wade Stadium parking lot. You can pull up as many times as you need. None is best. Then back up straight enough for another 40 yards to still be in the parking lot at the back edge. The biggest piece is to be sure you have your pre trip inspection nailed down. When the inspector walks out with you mention you will start with your pre-trip inspection. Easy on a goose neck and all in the manual. You can skip the air brake part. Hanging Horn is one lake that fascinates me for fishing, I can not get it figured out. What a crazy structure in that lake. Its a amazing lake. I live exactly one mile west of M.L.
Take the Cdl test and do like old Iron states. Minnesota dot just add 16 more enforcement officers just last week, so the chance of running a muck of one will be increased from here forward.
Seen the Cloquet scale open this past week. Frst time in months. I suppose with more enforcement officers it will be open quite often again. It was open in the evening also.
Up here you have to make a minimum $10,000 off the property to get the Alberta farm fuel benefit and taxed at the farm property rate. There are some exemptions though. Sod farms used to be able to run purple diesel in their trucks but that was changed quite a few years ago. Their argument was they need to get their crop to market the same as say a grain farmer.
Not to mention they will be "highly motivated". It will take months for them to be on their own, if they were just hired. There is a lot of discretion available to DOT enforcement, new hires tend to be like the baby rattlesnake, every bite gets a lot poison.
I am going to look into getting farm plates for my truck. I have re-read the MN DOT documentation numerous times, and according to my reading, I should be exempt from the CTL requirement as long as I am hauling *MY EQUIPMENT*, TO- OR FROM- MY "FARM" PROPERTY. The key is whether or not the DOT will consider me worthy of farm plates. I know a neighbor has them, and has a remote property similar to ours.
Im not very up to date on the farmer tags but I am a trailer/vehicle manufacture and thing people forget to do is register there truck as a combination tag. 10,000 and up trailer is Class A requirement
Both statements may be true in your state, but are not applicable in all states. We do not register in combination. We also do not require class a cdl for over 10k trailer unless the combination is over 26k.
It appears you can have a newer SRW F350 (11K GVW) and 14K GVW trailer (GCWR 25K) and no CDL required, same here in AL.
I am 99% sure that a non commercial class A is required when towing a trailer over 10,000 lbs. any state driver license should state than 10,000 lb towing on them. I was just at a dinner with a maryland state police officer that runs in our local scale house. I was picking his brain about this a little bit, He stated as long as no name is on truck trailer or equipment they dont check. But if they think you are doing any business for hire they will be checking your credentials. The 10,000 trailer law is a fed law not a state, most states just dont enforce it most of time. Just my 2 cents. Dont want some one getting dinged for not knowing. Any one can call there state DOT and ask questions. Better to be informed over of the phone than along the road. Phone call is much cheaper. Again the class A Iam talking about is not a CDL. Big difference between the two.
Not in Alabama. States may be more restrictive but have to abide by the basic Federal CDL rules so it's best to check each one's individual states rules. https://www.alea.gov/dps/driver-lic...icenses-classes-endorsements-and-restrictions Here in AL a 11k lb SRW F350 pulling a 14K trailer = no CDL required as the GCWR of the 2 are less than 26,001 lb. Now take our new RAM dualie it's 13K GVW for the truck, hook up to the 14K trailer = required Class A CDL. The 10K lb trailer rule in AL is for truck/trailer combinations where the truck's GVW + 10 LB trailer goes over 26,001. For instance 25K GVW single axle dump truck can pull up to a 10K lb trailer without having a Class A CDL. Put an 11K lb trailer behind the 25K single axle and Class A required. Only government can make this so confusing.
VT has its own laws, they try to conform to other state's laws. Here, the farm exemption is frowned upon for hobby farmers except moving equipment from field to field. Our law says if the trailer is rated over 10000 GTW, regardless of load, you need CDL. In another place it says only if the truck weight + the trailer rated GTWR exceeds 26000. If your truck, with loaded trailer attached weighs 9000, and the gross trailer weight rating is 17001 you need CDL. For lighter trucks they take actual scale weight of the truck with gooseneck attached. 7000 LB truck, 2000 pounds on the gooseneck=9000 plus rated weight of loaded trailer17001.
Best I can figure in California is if the trailer is rated over 10k you need a class A. Even if the trailer is empty.
Vermont says that, then later in the rules they say the scale weight of truck + manufacturer's maximum rating of trailer added are under 26000 it does not apply. Vermont legislature wants everyone to live in an apartment & drive a Prius. They prefer you not be employed, that messes up their utopia. The only acceptable pastimes here are marijuana, or skiing. They will throw obstacles in the path of anyone who deviates. CDL should not be an obstacle except for the DMV in your state. As the law is written, you have to understand the braking system of your vehicle. Then you get a manual. The written test penalizes people who think. They want you to recite the manual word for word. It is filled with questions deemed incorrect when your answer deviates in any detail from the manual's text. Then the medical card you were told you didn't need is required. "Sorry, it doesn't matter what we told you 30 days ago. The law is changing in July, this is April, we're enforcing it early." Next round, pre trip inspection: "I'm failing you. You didn't inspect your trailer's headboard, or landing gear. You failed to inspect the truck's windshield or mirrors." I argued the trailer doesn't have a headboard, or landing gear. If there were a problem with windshield or mirrors, I'd have noted them this morning before driving here. He replied: "You need to mention these things." Next round, they had no record of me having an appointment. Go away, reschedule. Next trip I was Bill Murray in the movie Groundhog Day! I spent two hours on pre trip inspection. I had him begging for mercy! He had heard more commentary on the condition of every frame bolt, level of fill in every cavity. I bored the most boring man living to the edge of death by boredom. Eventually he called off the pre trip inspection before I was finished. He elected to move to the dock backing phase. The state highway trucks were parked in the way. He asked if it would be necessary to move them. I was catching on that all questions are trick questions. I fought my nature to say: "Yes they are in my way." Passing the dock backing test, I believe he was reluctant to let me do the road test. In total, my CDL license took 5 trips. Four of them by VT law, I had to be accompanied by a VT licensed CDL driver, and appear at the test facility in a heavy truck with trailer.
Trailer over 10,000 is a federal law when driving a truck over 26,000. Below that it’s exempt.
Sounds like when I got mine gets my heart rate up just thinking about it
Yes, but in VT there is another mention that if combined trailer gross + truck weight is under 26000 (the weight of a truck with no trailer requiring CDL) no CDL required. A customer recently moved from NJ challenged me on this. He has a 12000 LB rated gooseneck he tows with an F350 Diesel dually. He will be under 26000. VT DOT agrees with him, no CDL required.
That is correct. I was not saying otherwise. The quoted post stated that federally all combinations with a trailer over 10k need class a cdl. That is not correct.
10-4
Yep, only government can make this so confusing. Hauling within the limits of the sticker on the truck and the sticker on the trailer seems like a Apretty safe bet though. Lots of 1 ton flat beds moving heavy equipment on 24K tandem dually’s with the not for hire stickers.
this thread is over 4 years old. If you have something to say, start a thread.
Sorry, I didn’t see anything in the rules about that.
The VT CDL Book is confusing. It states CDL is needed for any trailer nameplated over 10,000 LBS. Elsewhere, it exempts unless combined weight is over 26000. As for exemptions, farm plates are exempt from CDL requirements, as are firemen, & motor home drivers. You are still subject to other rules. You may not exceed the Gross Combined rating, & trailer weight limit of your truck manufacturer. Farm plates do not exempt you from overweight fines. Our F350 as one example lists 19500. as trailer weight limit.
Where does your 1 ton truck list the trailer weight limit at. I’ve looked all over mine and can’t find that information…..?
Normally need to look at the manufacturer spec sheet for year and model
Seems to be the case everywhere and apparently the DOT brownshirts don’t understand it themselves and to a person will give you conflicting information… I usually move my own equipment on a truck and trailer in compliance with the manufacturer’s information on the labels in the door jamb and on the trailer. Many here and elsewhere insist a CDL is needed, many others say the information found on those labels can’t be trusted….♂️ I just bought a brand new dozer in Florida this last week and don’t wish to run that far to get it so I’m paying for transport. The dealer is providing the transport company who informs me that for this dozer (Case 650 18K weight) they will use a hot shot driving a 1 ton…… Many would say the 1 ton is ill suited to the task, but I do it all the time and you can see guys moving dozers down the highway with 1 tons all the time….
I’ve done that, mine says 37K but so many people say that’s not dependable…..
If it's the sheet from the oem I don't know how it could be argued. But if you need to tow around nearly 20 ton it's time for something more then a glorified pickup truck. IMHO
It's listed as Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR) One must subtract the loaded truck weight to get max trailer weight.
It is important to remember that you can't just look at the total net capability of the tow unit. You have to also make sure the weight is positioned not to overload the axles on truck and trailer. Positioning the dozer or what ever to far forward or backward may put too much weight on certain parts of the trailer or truck. When your running up towards the top of your weight capacity, you need to put the load on a scale and weigh each axle to know how to position the load correctly. I pull 20K on a DRW 3500 pretty frequently, running up and down mnt passes. I don't have a problem with it. The truck and trailer are capable of that. I don't prefer to run that heavy, but sometimes it is necessary.
Some folks here will tell you that the manufacturer pulls that number out of their ass. But yeah, I go by it, and have no problem with the 1 ton pulling it, VERY occasionally is all I move it. Personal use, my properties, so it sets on one property being worked for 4-5 years before moving to another property where it sets for another 5 years of use. So no, I won’t be changing tow vehicles……
Yep, me too. And yeah, I know about equipment positioning to achieve optimum tongue weight on the tow vehicle…..
I will look for that GCVWR when I get back to the property where that truck is. Thanks
Not 20 ton (40K pounds) but 18K pounds or 9 ton…..
37000 Is 3000 pounds short of 20 ton so 18.5 are talking gross or capacity. 9 ton in my book still requires a truck not a wanta be
Here we also have what is called bridge law. My understanding is that is not done everywhere. The length of truck and trailer and the number of axles over that distance matters. It matters here because due to length, I cant carry my max capacity on certain combinations of truck and trailer. So there are times (and locations) where regardless of capacity, the overall length can't "bridge" enough to allow you max your truck trailer combination. All of this, and different interpretations of the law make this really hard when crossing State lines. Some rules are DOT Federal and some are State. Thats why when buying equipment out of State or neighboring States, I hire it. I am not interested in being stuck in BFE red tagged for some jacked up interpretation of the law. There are guys that have that dialed in, and I am not one of them.
Someone told me the other day trucks over 14k are supposed to hit the scales? I've run F450-550s and Dodge equivalent for over 10 years and I've never scaled them. My Dodge with skid steer on the bed is right around 19,500lbs. (Checked at gravel pit for s&gs)
I think the answer to that depends. Some scales I have seen require different trucks weights to pull in. some say commercial vehicles over 26K and some I have seen are 12K. When I was racing cars in California and driving from Idaho, I had color matching magnets that I would put over the business name on my pickup to avoid the hassle. Some of those ports required pulling in at the lower number. Alaska may have the lower numbers, it is typically post on the signs just before you hit the scale telling you if you are required to. I doubt that it is honestly paid much attention to by the Port officers on vehicles that small unless your pulling something.
Signs just say "trucks" I believe. I can't remember to be honest
37K is what the manufacturer says their truck can tow, not what I’m towing. My load is 18K plus trailer around 5-6K, well under what the manufacturer specs out for their truck. Again, there’s the guy making the very occasional move and the commercial enterprise moving heavy equipment around daily for a living, and these two it seems impossible to distinguish….
Amazing the complexity of it all, the lack of consensus that exists on what is legal and what’s not, and the inability to get the same answer from one DOT brownshirt to another who themselves don’t even understand the law they are supposed to be enforcing. Little wonder so many say screw it and just hook up their load and move it where they need to when it’s time…..♂️
Years ago I was sitting in the passenger seat of a local DOT's car. He was trying to decide which violations he was going to give me tickets for vs written warnings. He happened to mention that I wasn't long enough to 'bridge' the what ever weight I had on. To try to lighten the mood a little my response was..... Well sir, I don't have any bridges that I have to cross to get to my destination. Evidently he didn't find that very amusing because he gave me 3 or 4 overweight tickets and no warnings. Lessen learned that day!!!!
DOT people tend to be void of a personality and certainly a sense of humor. Common sense is not issued to them either. Its black and white and most seem to be color blind.
Sometimes the truck unit guys get humbled but not very often. It's really helps if your truck and trailer are in good mechanical shape. I had a guy spend 10 minutes looking for something wrong including having me turning the wheels to check the steering linkage. He didn't find anything wrong so sent me on my way.
the last two times I have had the truck/trailer inspected they put a sticker on there and filled out a "no defects found" report to take back to my boss. I had gone through and replaced the breakaway battery and switch, new hooks on the safety chains, replaced tires and serviced the brakes. I make sure it all works and carry reflectors and a fire extinguisher.
Similar experience on a quiet Sunday morning at the Kamloops scales a few years back. Test steering linkage, time air pressure build-up, air leak down test etc…had me assemble safely triangles while he was on creeper! Pretty friendly & sent me on my way: fix licence plate light & possible chafing air line (resecure). Cat 303.5 in dump box secured well with heavy welded d rings in box. But…these tie downs not visible from scale house….
I am not fond of hauling those in a dump trailer for that reason. You know there are a bunch of unsecured mini excavators in dump trailers. The only way DOT can verify is to pull you over. That would get old.
You are right for sure, in this case it was in the bed of a dump truck. Same thing though; can’t see the tie downs.
This is how we occasionally hauled, definitely felt like there was a bullseye on our back as it is an ‘odd’ looking load…
That's a little kid's load right there Said using the Haribo gummy commercial kids voice: " I put my exca-tater in my twuk like this"
Taken in Yukon, hauled that & bumper pull rv up for testing some claims. A mighty 210hp, 55mph pedal to the floor lol! Got some funny looks going through the scales.
That set up could be very versatile. You could strap the mini-ex tightly on the truck and not have to unload it for every job. Kind of like the old truck mount excavators.
Just make sure not to raise the bed while mini tied down on truck bed lol!
I've seen one of the local electrical service install contractors doing that, just a quick dig to uncover a break in an underground line, 3.5T mini on 14K trailer. Looks like it wasn't the first time they'd done it. The trailer axles were bent, I'm guessing from the extreme amount of force that could be generated by digging with the excavator pulling the trailer down.
Pretty limited application for sure, I can imagine pretty severe forces on those 7k axles. Also would be really limited on the amount of usable reach. For us a mini in dump truck was just a way to transport on a long trip; while allowing hauling of prospecting gear & rv at same time. I did use the set up shown below (while chained to deck) to roll some huge basalt boulders off the road….the boulders were 6’ tall and rectangular in shape. The Kubota shown was ‘just’ able to tip them over to the edge of the road. Volcanic basalt flows ‘cap’ this area and overhang the road…constantly spalling off material.
yes that would be the case. I am very careful what I do off the deck of the trailer. The forces get out of hand quickly. I figured out where I can reach with the 120's tools in a safe manner, but boy does it feel sketchy.
Yes, can really put a twisting force on the trailer. We were moving our 210 This summer and of course right at loading time huge rainstorm & 300 yard long steep hill up out of the landing turned to grease…tractor spun out. Lowbed driver had me sit in 210 and push him up the hill while he worked the gears…20’ of advance per ‘bite’ with bucket. Really lifted/put a twist on the lowbed. Cycle times on the excavator never felt so slow! Very weird feeling to be honest!