Hello All, Hoping you can help with advice on purchasing a used backhoe. My wife and I just purchased a 9 acre lot to build our new home. It would be used for clearing, moving logs, pulling stumps, trenching for utilities, rebuilding stone walls, landscaping/grading. I’m not an operating engineer so really have no clue as to where to start. I’ve been watching YouTube videos on what to look out for when inspecting a machine prior to purchase and looking through all the used iron websites to get a sense of what’s available for the price. I’m looking to stay under $25K. An earthwork contractor told me I should look at a JD 310 or 410 or Case 580, but recommended I stay away from Cat. I don’t think I need an extend-a-hoe for what I’ll be doing. Don’t think I need an enclosed cab (just seems like more stuff to get broken / rust). Would like to have a 3rd valve and a thumb. Is one brand better than the others when it comes to a “homeowner” machine that will see only few hours per year? One of my main concerns is obsolescence and not being able to get parts. Are parts more readily available for one manufacturer over the others? Thanks for any advice you may be able to offer. I appreciate your help! (I can see some of you now, shaking your head and rolling your eyes! Darn newbie!)
There are quite a handful of threads on this particular topic so you might dig a little deeper Parts availability is all depending on how good your local dealer is plain and simple deere makes a solid machine case makes a simple machine and cats are pretty good when the b series came out so take your pick Machines the age your looking are not going to be with a 2 way aux valve maybe 1 in 100 till you get into probably the last decade before they got common what you will have is a one way valve if you want a thumb then on a cat you cant have an e stick if it's a d series or older and I wouldn't want an e stick with a thumb it adds a lot of weight to the ass I have never needed a thumb a few times would have been handy but got by without it as far as backhoes go 25 grand is a little cheap in the current market for something nice at the last auction here people were paying close to 20 for junk If you can get 4 wheel drive it just makes the world of difference
If you're looking to stay under $25, consider Ford/NH. Maybe consider JCB if you see one local and you're willing to do the service yourself and wait for parts from overseas, fine backhoes from what I hear, but don't expect any support. I agree that a thumb is going to be hard to find. A 4 in 1 bucket will be easier to find, and nearly as useful. Either is one more thing that's easy to break, easy to mess up the stick with a thumb if you're not careful (like lifting logs, not rocks) 4wd is not needed if you have the time to wait for dry weather, don't expect to back out of wet spots with a full bucket, and don't have to clear snow of steep hills. A backhoe will lift itself out of ANYTHING if you know how. 4wd will make the loader more effective in marginal conditions, not a whole lot more. If you stick with the 310,410, 580, common Fords, or JCB, then there will be plenty of parts machines if the dealer can't get any part. If you're picky, it will take a long time to find the right one.
Welcome to HEF, mybackhoe ! I see you are in New York. Better reconsider and get a machine with an enclosed cab.
What are your mechanical abilities? These old machines can dollar you to death and repairs involve heavy lifting. All of the fluid capacities are in gallons, not quarts. If you are not mechanically inclined and plan to have money left over for repairs you would be better off to check local rental rates on backhoes, tractors, and excavators. I wouldn't bother renting a mini excavator unless you had light work to do. For stump digging of any size you want a 15,000 lb machine either way. Excavators make great digging machines but travel really slow and tear up the ground they travel on. One thing about renting is you could have an excavator one weekend and a tractor and box blade the next. The best choice in an excavator would be the largest you can get with a grader blade and hydraulic thumb. If you have a bunch of small trees to take down a mini works good but don't waste valuable rental time trying to dig out any 24" stumps. When renting get all the insurance and tell them you don't want ANY responsibility for damage. You are going to want a tractor of some sort other than the backhoe. My priority was 4WD and a cab with AC. I would imagine if I lived up north the priorities would be the same but for different reasons. I only have 7 acres but 5 was a thick 40+ year old stand pines I had clear cut. I have been digging some monster stumps then tilling and grading to smooth out the land for mowing. I have a John Deer CUT in addition to the backhoe and I couldn't live without it. If I had it to do over I probably wouldn't consider a Ford New Holland. I have looked up parts for my machine that say they are no longer available. The cylinder kits have been a real challenge and New Holland wants you to buy new gland nuts and pistons to be able to rebuild them depending on serial number. Some folks get lucky and some not so much. A 4 in 1 bucket would be a nice option and more likely to present itself than a thumb. I welded a thumb on my machine and I get by okay with it not being hydraulic. After getting use to it I leave it in the 45* setting all the time. It gets in the way a little for digging but it's nice not having to adjust it all the time and I use it at the end of every dig to lift stumps.
I bought 15 acres a year ago to build a house. Heavily wooded, so much that I have to cut underbrush as I walk it. i wanted a backhoe so I can clear things, put in a driveway and do general work. I am no operator and have owned tractors in the past and used a skid steer a couple times. My budget was $25k max. I wanted something I could get parts for, work on myself, was full size and preferably 4WD. I ended up with an older CAT 426. It ran, worked, moved and did not smoke. I paid $9k for it. I repacked all the cylinders, rebuilt 2 cylinders, replaced all the hoses and I am about $13k into her now. Have some rust to repair, glass to replace and a leaking axle to fix. Once done I will be into her for well under $20k. I will have a machine in good service and I am very familiar with. If you are handy you should keep your eyes open for something like I got. I am not sure why you were told stay away from Cat but parts are available.
stay far away from jcb no support
If your worried about parts being available you want a cat ive had trouble with older deere and case machines. Yes the cat will cost more it also can be resold for more when done considering you dont murder the poor thing. IMHO
I don't think any manufacturer is worried about keeping parts available for machines over 10 years old. That isn't where their profit is. You also have to consider the possibility of repairs you may not be capable of. Is there a dealer or independent in your area that can do the big jobs if needed? I think John Deere is probably well represented throughout the country but I could be wrong. I know we have a yellow Deere dealer in our town. We also have a CAT dealer. Our nearest Case or New Holland dealer is 85-100 miles away. At the risk of sounding like a broken record you can buy a lot of rental time for 25 grand. You have little to no risk that way but you don't own a machine at the end either. I toyed with the idea of selling my machine once and all I got was people wasting my time so I resolved myself to the fact I am stuck with it. I make improvements on it as I make repairs but there may come a time it turns into a barn ornament.
Do not operate a machine for 15 minutes and think it's all good. You've got to get a backhoe up to operating temperature and give it a workout to know anything about it.
Take your time looking for a good one and when you find the one, don't drag your feet or someone else will buy it. If you go Deere, stick with an E model or later to avoid the Gresen hydraulics. Many of the Gresen parts are end of life (EOL). The Es and maybe later Ds had the Husco hydraulics which are widely used by other brands. Take an extra set of eyes with you to look. Preferably a mechanic buddy. Check for leaks, water in oil, oil in water, play in the pins and be prepared to accept them or fix them. Most of the expense if you get lucky will be hoses, orings and seal kits for the cylinders. If you plan to keep this machine, I'd recommend a full fluid and filter change on it. Budget at least $600 on your purchase price for it. They're a great tool. Enjoy the hunt.
Best consideration, pay someone that works on these to inspect the ones looking at. Expect a really bad report on most where that mechanic will give dollar figures on what to expect. Will not be cheap but overall could save you a bundle.
That's what I've heard to. But there's plenty of them working out there, just not in the US. Really, if you're not working on the machine yourself, you're probably better off renting than owning and paying somebody to keep it up. And if you don't already know Cat, or Deere, then JCB is just as easy to learn as any other. I'd rather have a solid JCB than a wore out CAT or Deere any day.
Thank you all for your replies and words of wisdom. I greatly appreciate it
mybackhoe, I was in a similar situation in March of this year. I am pasting the thread that I started below. Perhaps there is some good advice for you in the thread. HeavyEquipmentForums Good luck!
Thanks Swetz. Seems like you got a great deal!
mybackhoe, I think so, but whatever you buy, understand that you will have to do some work. In my case, I have repacked most of the cylinders on the machine. The rest will be done in the near future. I also changed all the fluids because of the unknown.
If you find a good salesman at a dealer, they may let you know when a good machine is coming in on trade or who is selling a good machine privately or on consignment.
Another point about the E series is that it's the last one they made without a computer. So if you buy a G or later, you get a computer to deal with.
mybackhoe, Some more stuff I found in the archives here. First is a spec chart for the major brands: https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/charts/backhoe-loaders Next is another member looking for advice: HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks Swetz! Appreciate your help
I have two to sell. Take your pick. 410C is 3600 hours. 3 new tires, extend a hoe, At moment it has a minor injector pump issue soon to be repaired. Case 580K has extend a hoe & a thumb, new rear tires 5500 hours. Both are 4 wheel drive cab machines with joystick controls. I have had excellent service & parts from my Case dealer. I've had less overall experience with JD dealer. CON EQUIP is excellent with aftermarket parts. Take your choice, $20000
As for what to look for: I want a dry machine, no leaks. Look for a tight machine. Wiggle the hoe left to right, look for motion at any joint. look at exhaust, is there a build up of soot? check the oil, is it jet black? If you are seriously considering a purchase, find a real mechanic, pay him to give it a thorough going over. A machine selling for 1/5 its original sale price is not going to be flawless, Look for expensive parts damaged. In a machine, I want BIG. No backhoe loader is too big unless you can't move it. I move mine with a medium duty GMC Top Kick. If you will hire a mover, that won't be a factor. 4 wheel drive is a must have. I like to install electrical conduit 1 length at a time. Without moving the tractor, I dig, place a length of conduit, backfill. It stirs up less lawn that way. An extend a hoe is a must for this. In so many other ways the extra 3.5 feet radius of reach is a blessing. In your budget, you won't likely find pilot controls, pattern changer, or ride control. Nice upholstery I rarely see in this price range. I wonder if southern tractors where plastic interior parts aren't as brittle might be better.
The sunlight and heat destroys our plastic interiors
I guess there's something to be said about lower sun angle and freezing temps!! My search led me to a JD 310b...... circa 1985ish....( no plastic anywhere!) for 7K..... hours unknown due to broken meter at 4500 or so. Had the seller put a working meter in. Dry ( at the time) and fairly tight in the joints. Some good advise given about rentals.. I have the same scenario with respect to your intended uses. Built a driveway.... pulled stumps.... moved dirt from here to there, and still have prep to do. To date ( over 5 seasons) have put just over 1000 hours on the machine. Did have some some substantial repairs... some my fault( operator error) and some age. Another 4k into it. Lots of the work done by myself..... luckily my father in law had a great supply of "big" wrenches. If I take a daily rental of 200$ a day..... my 1000 hours would be 125 days and puts me at 25K for rental cost. So, as I said to my lovely other, I'm ahead of the game there, plus I have the 'tool' sittin there... and can use when I'm ready.
Lots to think about! Thanks all!
And best advise: Do not buy! But you already crossed that line. You, like me, want to own. I'll tell you of my early mistakes. When I took stock of what I wanted, what I could afford, I looked to my youth. Within a 10 mile radius there were a very few machines to look at. One contractor bought a bunch of new John Deere machines. My first backhoe was what I had seen new in my teens. While it was a serviceable machine, it had a debilitating issue. Eight months later I had it fixed, but by then I had bought a functional hoe. JD 410 1974? was a write off! Next was a Case 580K, a great machine! Mine had been neglected. A few months later I spotted a much nicer 580K beside a road with a FOR SALE sign. It was very low hour, little wear, NO evidence of abuse! Alas, it was 3 lever, foot swing, no extend a hoe. I convinced myself I could adapt. I hated the foot swing! Case machines of the era were notorious for swing speed. This was fast as the others, but unpredictable! I switched hoes & control towers to have extend a hoe & joystick control, sold the first machine. Like so many aspects in life, waste can be prevented if we learn first, then buy. Then the question: How do we learn? Find somebody who has been there. Secure their services. Paying an experienced person will save you thousands & years! I found a bulldozer I liked. I ran it 1/2 hour. The seller had just used it to clean up 10 acres. He had seeded it all down. I was uncomfortable even though it was covered in an inch of snow, to mess up his work. Price was good, machine ran well, I agreed to a price. I asked Howard to go look at it. Howard brought along some short timbers. We arranged them, backed onto them, added more timber, drove forward onto them. The tractor was elevated where we could crawl under. He ran it an hour or more. Smoke began to come from the winch! Why would the winch smoke? Close examination revealed a long hose from crankcase vent to the winch. The black oily smoke was from the engine crankcase! While inspecting, we found the transmission case to have been newly welded. Fresh paint was the clue. I backed away from the sale. I later talked to an expert on that model John Deere crawler. He explained that a front crossmember was bolted to the track frame. These bolts were prone to breaking. Getting the broken bolts out required a major disassembly. Winch equipped crawlers were mostly forestry machines. Extreme conditions, mechanics welded rather than replace bolts. A bit of flex was needed at this joint. Welding stressed the crossmember, the crossmember would break. This caused the front of the tractor to cantilever off the transmission. 100% would break the transmission case. The proper fix is a new transmission case, or a good used. Few ever replaced. They would weld the cast iron & sell the machine.
look around and see what the contractors are using. Size matter. in the older machines you get over 70HP there seems to be less built. less after market parts made
Case describes 580K as 70 HP. Mine, equipped with extend a hoe, weighs 16600with me in it. The Deere 410C 80 HP weighs 17400 with me in it. I see countless people moving from a more populous area. This is especially true with Covid 19. They all buy a small 4 wheel drive diesel tractor with loader. Many have a hoe. They pay $40000. or more. These machines may be equipped with mowers so they serve dual functions. Most, it's a big job to take the hoe off to use rear mounted implements. Digging is a slow process. After the great flood in 2011, I had a building heavily damaged. We had a little backhoe loader for inside the building work. It was discouragingly slow! At one point we had a owner installed electrical conduit. They overshot the utility power pole & came out of the ground near horizontal 3' past the pole. We had to dig up the end to a depth 46" & bend it vertical. A little job, we trucked the little machine. Digging, the pile soon was falling in the hole. Had to stop numerous times to reposition & move the spoils pile away from the hole. All told, A 1 hour job took six hours. Years later, a house on a knoll had very little level ground around it. 5' of level lawn surrounded that side of the house, then, dropping away from the house, lawn was way too steep for the big backhoe. The same little tractor seemed the answer to place a generator on the back side. Ditch had to be dug, a propane tank had to be buried, The generator had to be moved. After two days it was clear I'd die of old age before this toy got the job done. I dug a trench on the uphill side for two of the big backhoe's tires. A big backhoe is SO much more useful. You'll find you use for many non excavation projects. Mine is a welding positioner, welding bench, mechanical workbench. With thumb, it's a wall builder:
I do agree with Willie B, however, I have experienced the differences in a different way. I have never had to make a living trenching, all of my work has been for me. I also started with my New Holland TC33D having dug everything by hand, so, to me, it was incredible how much work I could get done with this machine compared to by hand. I have actually said numerous times...there is no way I could have dug that by hand, when the TC33D was able to dig. This was mostly due to the amount of rock in the ground. I purchased the New Holland TC33D brand new in 2000 for $25000. I have zero regrets on this tractor. The above stated, I have recently purchased 43 acres of property, that needs lots of work. It quickly became obvious that this was out of the Compact Utility Tractor's league. If I had one or 2 stumps, sure the TC33D will dig them out...it may take two days, but it could be done. However, if I have 50 stumps to dig out, I may be dead before I get them all done . So, I upgraded to the large backhoe NH 675E. And, I will be honest, the power still scares me sometimes when I am working...it is incredible. I have removed stumps in minutes that took hours with the TC33D. These Compact Utility Tractors (Kubota, Deere, NH, **, etc.) were all designed first and foremost to be farm tractors. Then, attachments were designed to make them more versatile, and they are, with limitations. If you purchase one thinking you are buying a backhoe, your are wrong...you are buying a farm tractor that can also used to dig, albeit slowly, as Willie pointed out. Willie B also made another point that I would like to very loudly second. That is the fact that it is a PITA to remove and install the backhoe on the Compact Utility Tractor. Again, because it it a farm tractor, tucked up inside of the frame of the backhoe is a 3-point hitch with a PTO, that is also very useful. But, you must remove the backhoe to get to it. I have removed my backhoe exactly 2 times since I purchased the tractor new in 2000, and I do not plan to remove it again any time soon. The first time, I didn't know any better. The salesmen said you do this, that, and the other thing and bing bang boom it is off. That was mostly true, but going on, not so easy. The second time, I knew, and dreaded it, but I needed the PTO to dig footings (post hole attachment) for my deck. I hope to either never take it off again, or if I do, never put it back on again because of the pain. A final comment. Although I have the full size backhoe now, I do not intend to sell the TC33D. It fits the bill nicely for some jobs...kinda another tool in the box. I know I am not alone in this, others on this forum also have both and wouldn't give up either. Besides, the TC33D helps me to fix the 675E...tractors helping tractors, how much better than that does it get .
I've started looking at the Kubota TLB's like the L48, M59. They seem like a good compromise and more manageable alternative. Albeit their breakout force doesn't compare to the true, full size backhoes.
"GARDEN TRACTORS" anything sold primarily with a mowing deck is a garden tractor, designed to be an upgrade from the original riding lawn mowers, and adapted competitors like a mower deck put on and old farmall, ford N, allis etc.
Yes Delmar. To me, the progression is riding lawn mower, garden tractor, sub-compact Utility Tractor (SCUT), Compact Utility Tractor (CUT), then a full size tractor. Starting with the SCUT, a loader and backhoe are available, from the factory. Then the CUT of course is available with a loader and backhoe, but is larger and has more ground clearance. My father owns a Massy Ferguson GC1700 (SCUT). It is a great little tractor for his use...moving logs pushing leaves digging in sand with the backhoe, but it has many limitations because of the lift capacities and force it can apply. I am sure that machine would not dig a trench in the rocks I have on my property, but it works for his purposes, very well. My CUT is not the largest at 33 horse power and ~5k#, but it will trench in the rocks at my house, not quickly though, and I may occasionally have to move the trench one way or another to go around some of the boulders. The full size backhoe is a beast and will move, even if it cannot lift just about any rock I have encountered thus far on my property. Riding mowers, garden tractors, SCUTs, and CUTS can all be equipped to cut grass. I actually have a smaller CUT (New Holland TC21d, 21hp) tractor that I use to cut several acres of grass, and bush hog when needed. It is not, however equipped with a loader or backhoe although it was available in that configuration directly from New Holland. This tractor is equipped with 4x4, which is very necessary when cutting after the rains that we get. Edit: Links to the tractors I was referring to: https://www.tractorbynet.com/guide/categories/SubcompactTractors.html https://www.tractor.com/specs/compact-utility.html https://www.masseyferguson.us/products/tractors/gc1700-series-sub-compact-tractors.html
I will disagree only to the point of these compact utility tractors being farm tractors. I have intimate knowledge of maybe 200 farms. Most were once dairy farms. Through evolution of farm ownership, and use, they now are more commonly either horse homes, vacation homes, or hay farms. Compact utility tractors are limited to 1 tractor per farm primarily used to mow the lawn, or horse owners carrying hay. Anything I could describe as real work, there is a larger (typically 30 year old) tractor, or they hire the work done. My observation, is countless newcomers to rural life buying a CUT. Years later the backhoe bucket has paint on the bucket teeth. Saw one today, a ten year old Kubota 35 HP tractor. It had the foot rests still in near perfect orange paint, the bucket still painted on its major wear surfaces. Hour meter was at 621. They had bought the backhoe, set it aside, and mowed the lawn.
LOL My neighbor has a mid size Kubota. Not sure of HP but it's a CAT 2 hitch so probably 50 hp. He bought a backhoe attachment last year. As far as I know he has dug one stump and buryed one horse with it. He spent 3 days on the stump.
Willie B, What I meant was that they are designed as small farm (farm size) tractors, then the implements are added as needed. When I purchased my New Holland TC33D, the salesmen told me that the Japanese perfected this size tractor because of the many small farms in Japan. They then began to import them to the USA as major brands such as New Holland/Ford, John Deere, Massy, etc.
I would have to confess, if I had to put my backhoe on my CUT every time I wanted to dig a stump, it would prolly rust away covered in weeds. I hate it! That is why I purchased a used and smaller CUT, just to cut grass. My neighbor tells me I am nuts, and that I should have bought a zero turn for the grass, but I also bush hog with this tractor, something the zero turn couldn't do. Sounds like mybackhoe needs to find one of these machines like Willie B and NH575E describe if he has decided on smaller. Those individuals are spending a LOT of money for a tool they are not using. I think my backhoe was a $6k option on my TC33D. I bet NH575Es neighbor paid a lot more for one on a larger Kubota.
I don't really consider a 50 HP tractor as "compact" I have here two International tractors with loaders. They get lots of use. The older one usually gets the wood splitter removed once a year, the rest of the time the splitter rides around as a counterweight. The newer one gets a variety of three point implements connected. Both are old enough to be rated 39 HP, but outweigh modern 60 HP tractors. Both are described as utility, low slung for good side hill workability.
My $0.02: If you have rocks to move or hardwood trees to pull, by all means, go for a full size TLB. I have both on my place. My backhoe is a Case 590 Super L, 4x4 and extendahoe. It has incredible power but even it has its limits. I just cleared about 1/2 acre of oak trees. It pulled out everyone of them, but I was running nearly wide open throttle to do it. Before I had the backhoe, I borrowed a neighbor's small kubota with a hoe to do some digging. As soon as I hit rock it was done. All that said, I can't brush hog, box blade, etc with the backhoe. I have a John Deere CUT that usually sits right by the house because it is so handy. If you are wanting something smaller with a hoe, the only ones I would consider would be a John Deere 110 or one of the Kubota backhoes that are more of a "real" backhoe like the L39 or L48 (they usually have a 4 post canopy/ROPS, as opposed to the hoop in the back like most CUT tractors.
One advantage to renting is you can rent exactly the machine the is perfect for the job. Need to pull trees, rent an excavator. Need to move logs, rent a CTL with a grapple. As long as you didn't break something, you don't have to maintain or fix it. Not near as convenient, but turning wrenches and being upside down cost wise on old worn out equipment isn't too convenient either. I would really look to see if ownership is really the best answer for what you got going on. Buying and reselling for same or more than purchased price after doing all you want to do is nice when the stars align, but doesn't always go down that way.
Buying and recouping your money later generally only works for the other guy.
Yeah, only a select few buy a $20000 piece of heavy machinery, then run it years without making repairs. It is a big part of cost of ownership, especially if you aren't a skilled mechanic.
Thanks again to all. I hear ya and completely understand everyone's ideas on this subject, but it really hasn't helped my decision making process! It's a tough decision. It's a big investment, especially if you're not using it everyday and making $ with it. I can see the advantages of renting. But whenever I rented, I always felt like I was "in a rush" and couldn't do stuff on my own time. I guess that's just the reality of renting. So if you are mechanically inclined, but by no means a "heavy equipment mechanic", which machines are the most user friendly for the novice mechanic? And during which model year did things start going "computerized"? I'd like to stick with good old relays/solenoids and hydraulics actuators vs. electronics and solid state computer controlled stuff that's a PITA to diagnose. I was surprised to see that in some backhoes the engine block is part of the "structure" of the machine. I would think this design would be one to stay away from - stress and flex on a motor just seems like a problem waiting to happen. In another post, it was interesting to read that JCB has the largest market share worldwide. Never would have thought that. Does that make them the most reliable and easiest to source parts for?
JCB aren't the most popular in N. America and that can be an issue. You want something with good dealer support locally. JCB apparently uses their own style of hyd. fittings so if a hose blows you have go to JCB for a replacement. That's a problem if you blow a hose on the weekend and they're closed or a long ways away.
mybackhoe, It was not uncommon to see farm tractors with an engine and transmission that formed the backbone of the tractor, and of course that splashed over to industrial tractors as well. Don't think of an engine like is in a car...these engines, and transmissions were really heavy castings that were up to the task of being the backbone. Modern engineering has mostly done away with this logic. If you do settle on buying, be sure to make sure that you will have a dealer to support you!!! To me, the support is more important than what brand. That said, I would stay away from JCB, as Welder Dave pointed out. Not that is isn't an excellent tractor, just that there are not too many dealers in the us. I would do a little leg work and see what dealers are in your area, and talk to those that have used the dealers and see if they are worth a hoot. I have a New Holland dealer that I have been using for 20 years for a smaller tractor. When I was about to purchase a New Holland full size backhoe, I went in and talked to them about stocking parts. They do stock all the normal maintenance parts and are able to get others in days. For a machine that is going to be used on your property, and repaired by you, I don't blame you for wanting to stay away from a computer controlled tractor. My tractor is a 1999 New Holland and it is not computer controlled. Many other brands of this vintage are also pre computer units.
John Deere, for example used to have a network of dealers. These were privately owned. Some were limited to lawn & garden, others were only farm machinery, others were industrial (yellow). At some point, John Deere Corporate closed all the industrial dealer owned businesses & created fewer John Deere owned dealerships. This made it difficult for those of us with older machines. Where I could call my dealer for parts, 20 miles away, run over & pick up a filter etc. Now I call corporate JD. The parts lady gets an attitude when I say my tractor is 29 years old. She doesn't have time to look before she says NLA. I recently wasted two weeks getting the same answer from JD. I exhausted all other resources. I then asked for service department. The man I talked to seemed annoyed. Port Relief valves for my tractor are No Longer Available. I: "So the only answer for my tractor is a totally different valve bank that won't fit, so I need thousands of dollars in adaptive parts to make the new one fit. There is no rebuild kit for this C cell battery sized component?" He: "Oh, you want rebuild parts! sure, we have those $53.20. We got them here"
It could be that they're just as reliable and easy to get parts for, IF you're willing to wait. The problem import tractors and equipment face in this country is that they suffer from being cheap, that is poor folks have poor ways, and they're not going to be looked after like a JD or Cat in most cases.
jcb are pure junk in north america they cant even get anyone to be dealers thats why they are always cheap to buy and have low hours they have never been running a lot of towns bought them once because of low bids then never again no parts availability and no service backup really bad choice for you to buy stay with case cat or deere lots of parts oem and aftermarket and service and higher resale just look at 1970s case hoes still retaining the value those sold for $12000 new 50 years ago
I bought a Cat built in 1989. Pretty much everything I have ordered has been available in a day or two. I am amazed at some of the stuff that is actually available. I was talking to the parts guys at the dealer and they said Cat parts are available for pretty much everything from the 1930s on up. I read stuff here about some of the other brands and am glad I bought Cat. I would much rather pay $50 for the part and install it right away as opposed to having to make or adapt something.
Most of cat case and deere you can find an aftermarket part for models back into the 80s no problem it's just finding the guy to source it from
So I've found a 2000 Case 590SM with 2,303 hrs, 4-in-1 bucket, supposedly mechanically fine, no leaks, but cosmetically not great. He's asking $23,500, but is negotiable. It was a city/municipally owned machine he bought at auction in July of this year, used it to clear a lot, put 13 hrs on it, and no longer has use for it. Thoughts?
I would first be concerned about rust and corrosion from a machine from up north. Especially one that was a municipal owned machine. Don't know anything about a Case though so may otherwise be a good deal.
You could do a lot worse. Rust is easier to deal with than mechanical wear. Just pressure wash the rust off, oil it up and forget about it, it will never get worse as long as you keep it clean. Still be worth finding somebody that can come along and inspect it and work it an hour.
Is it a rust bucket? Price is too good for a nice machine. The municipal machine sounds like it loaded salt. There is a guy on the Canadian border sells derelict machines. I drove 9 hour round trip to look at that description. Floor was missing, hydraulics didn't work at all, outer fenders were plastic, but inside the cab it was wide open. No brakes. It did have two new buckets.
stay away from rusty salted municipal machines they are horror stories electrical cables and connectors rotten out hydraulic hoses salt welded to pipes list goes on Doubt a 20 year old machine has 2200 hours when inspecting machines hour meters play very little part as they more than likely have been changed out if the hours seem too low I think this guy bought it realized what he got and wants out real quick
I would think with that low of hours after 60 hours of getting hot the oil leaks will show up not a problem just awareness 590s are not small
mybackhoe, Do you have any pics...the more the better. It would help members in how to advise you based on what we see. Also, do you have a local Case dealer?
municipal machines can be a good deal. Typically the maintenance is done on them. Rust is a given up here in the Northeast. If the frame is rusted but not rotted so what? As was said, clean it and oil it. If it bothers you paint it with something like POR-15. I have a rusty cab on my Cat 426. Otherwise she is decent considering the age. So far the only bolts or fittings I have not been able to get off is the floor bolts. Not a big deal. I will cut off the heads and either use heat to spin out the piece or just cut off the nut and weld on a new one. I am going to make new floor plates. You do not want rust that has eaten through half the frame or other structural parts. Some rust on sheetmetal is not a worry. The key is to make sure everything works and know what you have and want to do to bring it up to the standard you like your tools. One thing that is rarely said about fixing up a machine is you get very familiar with it and when something goes wrong you already know what to do.
My pride and joy is a 1976 580c, and it was a municipal machine, still has the town of Penfield sticker on it, and I'm sure they took a lot better care of it than the guys I bought it from...when I got it home and removed the air filter and dropped it on the ground...probably got another acre of dirt out of that sucker...rescued her out of a cornfield for $2000...have since put another $5000 into it, but I've pretty much run out of components/parts to rebuild/replace...so I've pretty much got a brand new 1976 machine and am very familiar with this rusty gem...If I had to pay someone to do these repairs, it wouldn't have been cost effective, but for the enjoyment and knowledge it brought......priceless......
Nice stinky64! I do understand the enjoyment of becoming intimately familiar with a piece of equipment after working on it. The 590SM I was looking at sold on Sunday. I knew it wasn't going to last! Lesson learned - gotta move when you find one for that price! Hopefully they'll be another one
Have one Case dealer just under 20 miles away. Closest dealer to me is a New Holland / Kubota dealer
Mybackhoe, 20 miles isn't bad. I think I would focus my search around those dealers that you mention. Be patient. I looked at junk before finding mine. What I did, was purchase the operators manual and maintenance manual prior to looking at the machine (purchase online and download instantly)...in fact I also purchased a set of manuals for another machine that I looked at too. Anyhow, I studied them closely so that I knew what I was looking at when I went to see the machines. I used to work on a lot of backhoes in the eighties and nineties, so I went in with some knowledge as to what I was looking at. You can also find the service items in the manuals, this will help you identify them on the machine you are inspecting. If you are not comfortable with that, line an equipment inspector up to check the machine out. This will cost $$, as does purchasing the manuals, but to me, it is worth it to make sure you get a machine that is worth the money you pay.
The Case 580 SuperL should fit your price range. They are a solid machine and parts readily available. You can get parts for them thru Case contruction dealer or Case AG which makes it handy.
Any CNH agricultural equipment dealer has access to all Case construction equipment parts books and the capability to sell anything in them.
How's this 580 Super L look?
Looks pretty good from my computer. It's an outside machine, but doesn't look like it's been abused though. I don't see any welds around the pin joints. The rear bucket has had some work on it, but looks good. Has all the teeth. The front bucket looks good and straight. Good cutting edge. Good tires. Cab has all the glass in it, lights work and nothing busted that I can see. The inside looks clean. Looks like the type of machine you could buy and go straight to work. I'd still want to see it in person and inspect underneath, check oils, coolant, leaks, hoses, engine etc. for myself. For a 4x4, cab and extendahoe, seems like it might be priced right. Keep us posted.
Thanks Boone. Appreciate you insight
looks very clean for a 1997 not many left in that shape with cab and not much rust only drawback is it has 4 lever controls and foot swing but easy to learn 2 lever kits almost impossible to find depends what it goes for at auction
Here's another one https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1033942000438694/?ref=browse_tab&referral_code=undefined
They need to fire the 2 dudes...camera man and operator. I was trying to fixate on parts, and they moved so fast they were gone before I could focus. Perhaps it was my aging eyes, but seemed a bit dizzying. What I did see was that the cylinders looked dry, in fact, I didn't see any areas that looked wet. The engine didn't to smoke abnormally. The tractor seemed to have plenty of power. The seat even looked good. You would be surprised how many machines have ragged seats on an otherwise decent machine. One of the rear tires looked well used from what I saw. The above stated, I feel it is worth looking at, but inspect carefully. As 580bob says, get under the machine and give it a good looksee. Check all the fluids to see if you can get a read on the machine. I did see that the oil filter was just changed, but perhaps the trans was not. I once saw a car that I thought I would buy. From the pictures it looked great. As I pulled into the lot to look at it, it didn't have a straight body panel on it...what a sucker I was to get sucked into a 2 1/2 hour ride for nothing! For me the controls would be a deal breaker, but if that works for you, by all means investigate further.
Love the thumb on the second! It looks cleaner than the first. The 4 in 1 is a big plus as is the service records. Still personally, don't like the 4-stick setup, but again for you that may be ok. Engine looks supper dry as well. Some more closeup pics would also be nice...maybe a video of it in action. I bet the seller would do that if you asked.
Thanks Swetz
The thumb was on your wish list. Hydraulic would be a bonus. 4n1 would be handy for picking up brush. But also see more cylinders, more hoses, more valves. 590 is a big machine especially with all the added iron features that one has. They both seem worth a closer look.
Lol, not just your eyes. I was getting dizzy toward the end of the video.
The driver is mega skilled, or he has run this machine since birth. I see a sweet running machine, hasn't been repainted recently +, It functions well. A drooling cylinder here or there is a maintenance issue, you will have them. Check the chrome on all the shiny stuff. Don't want any injuries. Meanwhile, I'd pay double price to avoid Case Controls. Briefly, I owned one. I'd compare my backhoe skill among the best. I can run JD control pattern (left hand runs the boom), I less efficiently run Cat pattern. Case had 3 levers/foot swing. It is confusing for those of us who began with another. Imagine driving your wife's car; the brake makes it go fast, the accelerator turns right. I would avoid Case controls. You might learn to run them, you can't sell them. I went through a big project to convert my present Case to joystick. Friday, I arrived as electrician on a new in ground pool installation. Thursday had been rainy. Pool guy is an "extra son" They had run out of time, or forgot. A trench was needed all along the downhill side of the pool, then another 80 feet to the control equipment. By the time I arrived, he had rented a mini excavator. He had dug along the pool 3/4 of its length. 100 feet of trench remained. There were numerous pipes & conduits already in place, but nobody knows exactly where. Pool guy was more than a little stressed! The convertible rental machine was in "CAT CONTROL" he said. Then he admitted he had never before run an excavator. It proved to be John Deere pattern. I took over in hope of digging the ditch before dark. I found the 3.5 Metric ton Gehl excavator a delight to run! No, it has no mechanism to level the house. A sidehill ditch is either going in sideways, or take time to build a road under the tracks. And No, it can't lift a 600LB rock without tipping over. It is little! Nonetheless, with some dragging, I could move a 1000Lb rock. I guess my point is John Deer pattern, (SAE) Standard American Engineering. Is what I am most comfortable with, and the most saleable. Boom lift & swing are done with left hand. Fine maneuvers (crowd & curl) are right hand Caterpillar backhoes & excavators (ISO) International Standards Organization, I find foreign. It won't matter to you if you haven't gotten used to one. It will matter if you opt to resell a 3or4 stick-foot swing Case. Many operators will avoid it.
I deal with rock & firewood. I can't live without a thumb.
590 is too big for most users in dirt work and 25000 alot for that old machine nothing wrong with video they are just showing what the machine does never buy without personally looking first 4 stick not that bad to learn been around since early 60s case parts by far easiest and cheapest to get
One thing to check on the case 4wds is the king pins... My lower ones were severely worn, causing the king pin to egg out the axle. There are bearing cups in the axle that if not greases often, will break and cause the king pins to start wearing the axle. This makes for expensive/difficult repairs. The setup is weak in my opinion. Probably the only true fix would be a new front axle. This happened to mine. HeavyEquipmentForums
Thanks all. I too was concerned about the 4 stick controls.
I believe the 580 series competes with the 310 series Deere. While I own a Case 580K, I'll choose the John Deere 410C more often. It does everything the Case does, except a thumb. A bigger machine does tasks with ease the smaller one struggles. While I have little experience with newer hoes, I find the Case machines significantly more jerky. This is especially true with extend a hoe (1050 LBS difference) & thumb.
Leaning more towards a JD. But there seems to be many fewer JD machines available compared to Case. One seller was telling me that conversion kits are readily available to change the 4 stick to 2 stick? Others on this forum have said the conversion kits are hard to come by? Thoughts? Thanks all
4 stick controls ??? I have never seen one. 3 levers with foot swing is the only one that I know of. If you count in the stabilizers, it becomes 5 levers. I ran my first one in 1976. They are quite easy to learn. But, their down fall is that they will fatigue your left hand badly when pulling the bucket level to make a nice smooth ditch bottom. I think anyone that learned to run two stick controls would have a hard time getting used to foot wing. I never had a problem running Cat track-hoes at work even tho I spent hundreds of hours on Case foot swing machines.
You'd probably be right at home in a dragline with foot swing.
conversions are hard to come by unless you want to go with brand new `then those look pretty cheesie to me
So it sounds like its harder to get parts for JD compared to Case But JD 2 stick controls are better than the Case 4 stick setup. For a guy that hasn't operated either, and is a beginner operator, and has only operated a Ford 555 for a few days about 15 years ago, I would think it's got to be easier to run a 2 stick setup. I like the parts availability of Case, but am hesitant about the controls. I'm stumped as to which way to go.
In my case I owned a not loved 580K. It had extend a hoe, joystick controls. One day, I spotted on the roadside a 580K looking loved. Two hours later I had made an offer. Two weeks later the seller called to accept my offer. The two machines were close in serial number. The better tractor was three lever/foot swing. It did not have extend a hoe. I hated it! I had a donor tractor, bought a bunch of bushings & pins to freshen the transition. We did a swap, then sold the tired backhoe with standard hoe, three lever/foot swing with all the joints fresh to a man who drove a Volvo & would never dig a hole bigger than planting a tree. Did he function well with three lever/foot swing control? I'd guess he doesn't know. You buy a farm in VT, you need a tractor of some sort. You haven't tried to "drive" it.
Saw a few case 580,s on line that appeared to have 4 levers never saw that before.I learned on a old three lever case 40 or so years ago.The last 25 years was on a track machine or a 410G Johndeere with pilot controls got really spoiled,my 580k is 2 lever,not sure I could even run foot swing lol.
I ran a Link Belt LS98 Speeder with a backhoe on it in 1969. 36 inch pipeline job. Brutal describes it best ! I didn't stay on it very long. mybackhoe ; If I were you I would avoid a foot-swing Case. Wobble sticks are way easier to learn and won't wear you out like the FS.
I feel your pain. When I bought my machine the guy had a dump truck and older Skat Skid Steer. I was so excited to get the backhoe for the price I did I was not thinking straight. The guy said, "You want the skid steer for $2500 too?". I told him "no thanks". We were driving home, maybe 10 minutes later, my wife says "are you sure you don't want that?". I called the guy and he just sold it. I am still kicking myself a year later.
A 4 stick case is for an e stick If you have no experience with any controls it hardly matters what you choose you have to start from scratch I prefer jd machines over case but there are a million of both and parts readily available for both so it hardly matters any machine made before 2002 is pretty much mechanical and simple to repair 580s 310s and 416s are head to head but a 310 c compared to a 310 g are not really comparable later models weigh more and have more power a new 310 sl is almost as the same as a 410 d weight is what does work power makes the speed Look for a deal your not going to make a living just at your leisure
In summer I became owner of a John Deere 410C. I met the tractor two years earlier. My son's friend bought it, wanted me to I didn't find foot swing very ergonomic. Even lubed up, it was stiff, Case hoes are notorious for swinging too fast. This one seemed a struggle to get it to swing, then it wanted to swing too far. You stop a swing by using the other peddle as a brake. I considered it awkward. The three lever control, some operators get good at it, but keeping the flat bottom of the bucket flat on the ground as you pull it toward you while lifting the boom is next to impossible for me. Seth bought a 580B. I tried it out, but digging is very slow for me. I have to think of the function of each lever. Joysticks, it's intuitive.
Controls are a easy swap. We bought a 2 stick and converted it back to a 2 stick because Dad is 74 and has run 4 stick since her was a kid.
Thanks for clarifying the 4 stick. I knew the configuration, just never thought of it as a 4 stick. Anyone looking for either two or four sick conversions will find quite a few in a Google Image search for either one
Do you mean converted back to 4 stick?
I hear the foot pedals are dangerous as they could be inadvertently pressed when entering/exiting the operators seat. I think I'll have a hard enough time learning 2 sticks!
I have a 2000ish JD 310E 2 stick machine and it's the second wobble stick machine I've bought. That's the control's I prefer. I used a Case at work many years ago with the foot swing and I didn't care for that so much. My JD is 20 years old. So far I have had no problem getting parts for it. The dealership is about 30 minutes away for me. I call them first. If they don't have it, they will do a stock order to get it there (no shipping cost to me). Then I drive over and pick it up. Now parts are expensive, but they have them.
Kinda hard to do because they are on each side of the tower. And your foot would need to be half way up the pedal for it to move very fast. I have never heard it happening nor have I had it happen. Many Case backhoes have dampeners in the swing cylinders to cushion the stop when swing. If the dampener is taken out of the cylinder for some stupid reason it will swing very fast and stop violently. Don't pass up a nice machine with a decent price because it has foot swing. They can be learned to run fairly fast depending on your abilities. PS - Why would anyone get off the seat when it is turned towards the rear ? You gotta climb over/around the armrest if you did.
On my cat machines with jd controls I jump off the back all the time to shoot grade but they also dont have foot swings
I think we are getting confused. Wobble sticks, joysticks, two stick, all describe two hand controls. Two handles each move four directions to control four hydraulic functions. SAE, you control the boom left hand. Forward or back moves the boom up or down. Left or right swings the boom side to side. Right hand moves the dipper away, or to. Left or right curls the bucket in or out. ISO (International standards organization) is the same as Standard American Engineering in swing & bucket control. The boom & stick are reverse from SAE. Forcing people to switch would be a good roadside alcohol test. You have to be GOOD to switch with equal skill. Three lever control is original to older backhoes. Case became the poster child because they entered the market very early. It has been a while, I may be wrong about which lever. Left lever moves only forward & back. It controls the boom, up or down. Next lever controls the dipper stick. forward out, pull it in. Third lever is bucket, out rolls it out, pull rolls it in. Traditional Case controls swing with your feet. two pedals make it swing, you have to step on the other pedal to stop or slow the swing. If a joystick Case has an extendable dipper, it uses right foot to control. A three stick/ foot swing machine gets an extra lever. I've owned four backhoes, my son owns two more. I can easily transition from machine to machine, I'll run SAE control well. With concentration, I can switch to ISO. Moving to Case 3/4 lever/foot swing is a REAL challenge! Stay clear for the first few minutes.
In the case of my Case 580K, there were transition years. Case used a different geometry in the placement of swing cylinders. They have alarmingly little power in the swing, but speed is explosive! Swing that fast would damage if it came to the stops full speed. They used a valve restricting the flow rate as it approached the stops. Both tractors I have owned had rusted springs in this valve rendering it non functional. Only dealer mechanics will be qualified to rebuild. I researched, bought manuals, worked around the NLA from Case parts. Once you understand its function, and find parts, it isn't brain surgery to rebuild. Later series of this model used bigger swing cylinders, slowing the response, and increasing the swing power. Among the NLA parts are the flow restrictors offered to limit the suddenness of the swing. there were once three sizes offered. Combine sudden swing with the plumbing of these(580K, maybe other models) with the valve function. A 6 or 7 section valve flows through. Actuating a valve fully stops oil supply to downstream valves. I try to swing while lifting, crowding' and curling out, no swing! When other functions are complete, a surge of oil hits the swing valve, it swings like a golfer! Some over confident fool standing near may, or may not land on the green. Broken, battered, but 200 yards away!
I've used the 580K 10? years to place blocks on the sled for our antique tractor pull. Traditionally, there is an accumulation of skilled people at these events. Every driver there is qualified to operate every machine. As an extension of friendship & trust, it is very rare for anyone to deny anyone climbing on a machine, with the exception of that backhoe. You need a few hours seat time before you can work among human bodies. I, my DNA confirmable sons, and a few "extra sons" run it. A close friend ran military surplus World War Two machinery at the age of six, has run so many quirky machines he could run anything, spent a minute trying it, then declined to set blocks with people near. He felt he needed time to learn the machine first.
Willie B, thanks for the thorough description of the controls. I've been looking through the web to get an understanding of the configurations and which stick does what. What year did the Case controls get better? Meaning when did they move to 2 stick SAE controls? Thanks much!
I believe case offered 2 wobble stick controls since the early 80’s, but there 3 lever with foot swing seems more common. I agree with others that you can get used to either control system just fine, I prefer the 2 wobble sticks. If I’m operating in tight quarters, I can just reach back and swing the backhoe to avoid an object. To do this with the case style controls, you have to swivel the seat to press on the foot pedals.
Being a relatively new user I combat the jerky operation with lower RPMs. It's not a total fix but helps me to achieve smoother operation.
mybackhoe, If you are going to use this backhoe on your own property, and there aren't time constraints such as would be if you were in business, you can learn any style of control. If you have no experience operating any other backhoe, it may be easier for you to learn the style in the tractor you buy, because you do not have that muscle memory that wants to push the wrong lever. My NH 675E was available with different types of controls as an option, but came standard with the 2-stick control. Later models were available with a pilot control joy stick that was reconfigurable by flipping a switch. Another reason to pursue a 3 or 4 stick setup would be price. Many like myself would pass it up so it is harder to sell. As an example, when I was looking for a backhoe I found a John Deere 310SE that was in real good shape, and priced right, but it had 4-stick control, so I passed it up. I saw it listed for sale for at least 4 months. I am sure the seller sold it cheap in order to move it. A lot of times machines are ordered with other than standard controls because an old timer that learned on the 3 or 4 stick machines, was the operator.
I don't know when they started. I've seen Case backhoes as old as 1980 with joysticks. The 580K seem to be about half joystick control. There is a thread here about converting. One person posted a picture of a heap of three lever take outs left after conversion. I've heard of people paying $1500. for used parts. I'd bet all the parts new would cost thousands.
Compare yours to the John Deere level of smoothness. Without pilot controls My JD410C is smoother without even setting the stabilizers & front bucket, than the Case with stabilizers set. If the front bucket is on sidehill so only one side of the bucket is on the ground, it is almost unusable! I sometimes get out & place a timber to support the bucket to smooth out operation a bit. Putting a huge rock in the front bucket helps also.
Quite a variety of Case backhoes. There were some models made in Italy, others in USA. E, G, for example were Italian, K was USA. A friend bought a new G, said it was much cheaper than K. K had a lot more creature comforts, interior molded plastics & upholstery stuff.
Thoughts on a 2004 JCB 215 with 2,800 hrs on it? Very clean, no rust. Asking $27,400. Concerned about parts availability Specs on Construction Equipment Guide seem strange? Operating weight = 16,391 lbs. Loader breakout = 12,250 lbs, lift capacity = 6,900 lbs. But they don't list any specs for the backhoe. These figures seem unreasonably high to me for the size of the physical machine. (I've see it in person). I been searching the net for a sell sheet or brochure on it, but can't seem to locate one. What model JD or Case would you compare this unit to? Thanks
JD 310 or case 580 Breakout force is rated in the curling of the bucket not really lifting The lift capacity seems accurate or close as about one third of the weight of machine but that's over the front not the rear I personally would offer way less than asking just cause it's a jcb does it have seat mounted controls or towers in the rear
Here is a paper brochure. Maybe you can see in the pictures what you want. https://www.ebay.com/itm/JCB-215-tractor-backhoe-loader-brochure-/233581560136 I know many people here post JCB is hard to get parts for but they do have a huge factory in Savannah GA. I am not sure if the parts issue is the older machines were not built here or JCB's support is poor for older machines. In the car business there is no law but the manufacturers typically support stuff for 10 years. After that you are SOL for many parts.
Looks like tower controls
Thanks edgephoto!
Looks like jd controls or wabble sticks witch is good should be all mechanical easier to sort out problems jcb made a machine with pilot controls mounted on the seat but they were electric over hydralic and the seat swivel over time bends kinks a breaks the wires making for a massive headache to repair usually ending installation of new wire harness Jd had the same problem with there tc machines and I suppose cat will have similar issues with there new xe machines Jcb has two dealers in the entire state with very limited parts on the shelf and in my experience there is not any independent guy that you can call to work on them that is a brand expert and there is limited support from dealer if your mechanically inclined with a good book you can sort through most mechanical issues if you have time to wait for parts but electrical problems can be a whole different story
So I pulled this trigger. This is my new baby. Sold for $26,000 https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Construction-Equipment/listing/2004-Jcb-215-5014972684
Looks good...All the luck to you!!! Congrats!
Thanks Swetz. Thanks for all your guidance
Would anyone happen to have the factory service manual for this unit? Thanks
Nice backhoe! I have a 215E that is real similar to yours. I got a service manual from ebay.. https://www.ebay.com/itm/JCB-Servic...758847?hash=item4b88911d7f:g:XYwAAOSw5cNYIO1A Also about ebay, if you need JCB parts there is a seller on there under the name of all-backhoe-parts. I have bought from him a lot. Most parts are offered in JCB OEM and after market. They are overseas, but shipping is fast and parts arrive in 3-4 days.
Nice machine! Good price for it too. $25,000 seemed to be what a 4WD backhoe 20-30 yrs old brings in a bit worse shape. You did good in my book.
Thanks for the leads csthompson12. Maybe I'll sleep better tonight after reading your post edgephoto! I got very little sleep last night - as my buddy said to me last night..."visions of sugar plums (backhoes) dance in your head"! He was so right! I didn't sleep but a wink last night! Everything running through my head...What didn't I check? Am I getting screwed by this guy? What maintenance should I do first? Should I completely change all of the fluids? On, and on...
The first thing I would do is buy a hour meter that works. Bob
Mybackhoe, When I got mine, I changed all the fluids, and filters. This way, I start fresh, and know what I have, and also get a good sense of the condition of the parts based on the fluids that come out. Your machine, like mine, spent a lot of time sitting in the last 20 years with such low hours on it. My concern was that there would be condensation in the fluids...water is not a good lubricant. Another thing worth mentioning. From the cab pictures, it looks like you have a powershift transmission. If you do, you will shift the gears on the same shifter that you move to go forward and reverse. This transmission is kinda like what is in a car. The reason that I mention all of this is because there may be a choice of the powershift or power shuttle. Often, these two units will have different oil and different filter, so you will need to know for sure which you have. I would also seek good quality aftermarket filters. Once you know the oem number, there are sites that will cross reference the filters. Buy good quality name brand like wix, baldwin, etc., and you should be fine. You will find the filters are not cheap so this is a way to save some dollars without jeopardizing your machine.
Bluox - Hour meter works Swetz - Thanks. I plan on doing exactly as you've recommended.
With an OLD backhoe, I'd never change the fluids right away. Check the levels, loosen the drain plugs to let some drip to see if there's any water, replace any filters from the Carter administration, then run it for a while in case something breaks soon. This one is new enough that maybe the original fluids are in some compartments? Check the manual for the change intervals and follow those, in my opinion. Get a CAT SOS oil test kit and sample the hydraulic fluid, at least, before changing it. Two reasons I say that, the plumbing and cylinders hold more oil than the reservoir, so draining and refilling is not so effective, and the new oil out of the bucket is often dirtier than the oil you drain from the machine if the filter is working correctly. Heck, with that much invested, I'd sample all the fluids even if you're 100% going to change them, to get an idea if anything was neglected. See if you can find any JCB forums online, there's plenty of them out there and there should be the knowledge floating around of what to do and what to look out for, but it's sure not here. Maybe PM JCBjeff or some of the other JCB guys to see if they know of any other site. This site is one of the best, but we have our weak spots and JCB is one of them.
Here is a link you may find interesting. https://www.pdfmanual4trucks.com/jcb/
Thanks Delmer. Your recommendations make good sense! And your right about this site being weak when it comes to JCB equipment. Thanks Tink. I found that manual yesterday and have been through a good portion of it. Some stuff just doesn't seem to match up to my particular unit. One thing I find very weak in the manual is detail on changing pins and bushings. I also need to source a good parts manual for this thing!
I would think that because the manual covers multiple variants, hence the discrepancies. JCB unfortunately will onlt allow limited access owners of machines in Europe. I gained limited access to it by using my VPN and an address I found in England using a Google search. The full range of manuals requires a subscription to JCB Service Parts Pro.
Thanks again Tink
When I got my 215 the seller said they didn’t have the manuals. I later found them in the compartment in the seat backrest..
Thanks csthompson12. Funny, I just got off the phone with the parts guy at the dealer and that's where he told me to look! So tell me, after owning a JCB for a while, do you wish you bought a Cat, Case or JD instead? Have you had any issues with your JCB? What year and model is yours? Thanks
Congrats on the new machine! Looks like a clean machine. I've heard the JCBs are strong and heavy built. Don't know much else otherwise. We have a dealer here that has picked up the JCB line but they carry mostly telehandlers and skid steers. Never have seen a backhoe on the lot. Be interested to hear how you make out with it. If you have no immediate leaks to fix, I would also want to change out all the fluids and filters. I like starting at a known state. Good luck!
I would agree with others that you should run it a while at least a good 30 hours and see what shows up as far as leaks then change all the oil
Mine is a 2004 as well 215E, not sure what the “E” means. I do like it, very strong built machine. I bought mine sight unseen at an equipment auction. I don’t like buying stuff like that without running it, but it turned out to be good. I saw some good deals at the start of the Covid pandemic, because auctions went from in person to online only.. I think this scared some buyers away, but made for some good deals. I also have a New Holland backhoe of about the same year, and find them both to have similar Hydraulic power. I’ve had no problem getting parts. You will like it good luck with it!
Thanks boone! AzIron - I like that idea. I can understand waiting on the hydro fluid, but what about engine oil, trans fluid, and differential fluid? Maybe even the coolant? csthompson12 - Oh wow, you have the "E" version! Just joking around, I have no clue what the "E" signifies. Do you have the seat mounted joystick controls, or are yours on the floor tower? Wondering if the seat mounted joysticks are the "E" designation. Or maybe the "E" is for "Extra" in the way of horsepower. What's the HP rating on the nameplate? Here's mine showing 67.9 kW. I'll tell ya one thing that I don't like about this forum - the SEARCH function sucks! Its useless. I've gotten better results typing in "JCB 215" that links me to post on this site. When I type "JCB 215" in the search bar, I get nada and an error message saying my search language is too short. We can put people on the moon, but...
I would do the same on everything you have no idea how long it's been sitting and with those hours on that model year its sat a lot let all the oil run some hours get it up to operating temp for a good few hours and work the heck out of it then change fluids and filters and contaminates have a better chance being suspended in the oil then
Ahh, ok, makes sense. Thanks Az
Use "jcb 215 heavyequipmentforums" in your search engine to search this site. Even if you plan to change all the fluids, I'd sample them so you know what to expect.
Thanks for the advice Delmer. Will look back through this thread and find that resource and do just that
Cat SOS is not as expensive as you'd expect. I'd tell you the price I paid for the last ten pack, but it was several? years ago, and wouldn't want to disappoint you if the price has doubled, but it would still be a deal. Prepaid, shipping included, just suck out the oil into the jar, insert into other shipping container, drop in the mail and get your results.
Thanks Delmer. Since I own a JCB piece of equipment, do you think the CAT SOS analysis will be helpful? I'm questioning if CAT compares the results to their specific equipment and if the JCB lubricant parameters will be completely different. I'm mainly interested in knowing the health of the transmission and hydraulic systems which are separate independent systems on my unit. Do you still think the Cat SOS will provide good data, or could it possibly provide results that don't necessarily correlate to my piece of equipment? Thanks
No, as far as I know, the tests all check the same things, metals, dirt, water, oxidation, etc. The engine and hydraulics will use the same range of oils that any CAT, DEERE, CASE will use. The only exception I know of would be something like a zinc free hydraulic oil, or different antifreeze corrosion inhibitor packages will test different. I don't know of anything like that applying to a JCB hydraulic system, or transmission or rear end, not that there couldn't be a difference, but it wouldn't change the test that's looking for either expected levels, or something out of line. one test is not going to tell you much, hopefully, even if it comes back high, then you just know that fluid was neglected and test it again after a number of hours, probably not going to get enough hours to test "regularly" but then you're not going to change those fluids regularly either without a lot of hours. If you ran equipment 24/7 and tested to extend drain intervals and decide when to rebuild components, then you'd be interpreting the results differently, just testing an unknown piece of equipment once or maybe twice, you're going to get only a mostly clear, or a warning of some sort.
Got it Delmer. Thanks!
Good Evening, I'm curious if you still have the Case 580 and what year it is. Thanks!
The Case has sold to a good friend. He wants a couple fussy things done to it before I deliver it. The day he committed to buy it, his back was killing him, he didn't even try it out. I've told him I won't cash his check until he has used it a week. In answer to your question, the Case MAY be sold. The John Deere has not sold. I did have the injector pump rebuilt. Proved to be a "flex ring" deteriorated. Bits of it clog a return line check valve. It's my understanding extreme cases can cause an engine to "run away". In my case it only stalled the engine.
I can 'vouch' for Willie's flex ring problem on the injector pump..... very common on that 'brand' and age of pumps ( pretty universal ). My engine also would stall.... then got a great re-builder to fix the issue.
Hello Willie, Thank you very much for the reply. Sounds like your friend is getting a very fair deal. I'm not as interested in the JD, I have a couple of local Case dealers nearby, so I was more interested in the Case. Regardless, I appreciate all your comments and shared wisdom. I just purchased and am waiting on delivery of my new to me 1998 Case 590 Super L that I purchased from a small re-seller in Indiana who picked it up from a local construction company with a reported 4849.3 Hours. All the hydraulic cylinders have been rebuilt in the last 6 months, the engine is super clean and dry and overall the condition looks to be very good for the age of the machine and seems to match the hours. It is an open station, but it doesn't get too cold where I'm at here in the northeast corner of Maryland. The purchase, taxes, & shipping, I will have an all-in cost of just under $20,600. The oil is a little dark, but up to the proper level. I live about 6 miles from the huge North East Maryland Richie Brothers auction site where I have checked out a few dozen machines and have scoured numerous other heavy equipment sites and so far the one I bought and the one you listed have been about the best I have viewed. I have a buddy that is looking for one, and already offered to buy the one I am getting, so I was looking/considering yours and selling the other one to him. I will let him know about your JD and see if he is interested. I'm a barnyard mechanic and have been turning wrenches for as most my 47 year life, and have a pretty hearty couple tool chests (and like most guys always looking for a good justification to purchase more). I plan to inspect and change the filters shortly after I run it some. I read some good advice from AZIron to get it up to operating temperature and run it a few hours before putting in the expense to fully change the fluids. I'm also considering getting an analysis done on the hydraulic fluid but thought I would ask the collective here if that is recommended. This is my first piece of heavy equipment, but like I mentioned I have been turning wrenches all my life. I also purchased the Operators & Service Manuals and have spent several hours reading in the forum here, on the CHN website, and talking to the local dealership, so I am pretty confident I can get and fix any issues I have with it. The only major thing I saw with it was the tires are about 60% worn, so I'm assuming that will be about $2K to replace all four. Anyway, I believe I made a good choice, and certainly hope I did. I'll find out for sure after I get it here and put it through an in-person inspection and run it through its paces. I reckon it is a bit of a Gamble, but based on the data I gathered and numerous conversations with the seller I think for the price it is a pretty safe bet. I'll keep you all posted on how it goes. Thanks again!!
I love big hoes! the 590SL is a tremendous machine. Only time I ever wished for a smaller hoe is when the trailer won't handle big. Big tractors on BIG tires place less ground pressure. A 20 HP Kubota will do more damage to a lawn. Since you don't get a lot of history, it's good to repair any issues before dumping $300. in good new oil. The wet brakes, together with open operator station tell me you want Hy Tran from Case. It is very good oil! I run nothing else in hydraulics.
Good Evening Willie, Thanks much for the feedback and advice on the Hy Tran from Case. It is good to get further confirmation on that. When I spoke to Kevin in the parts department at the local Case dealership he said the same thing about the Case Hydraulic fluid, you kind of expect the dealer to try and push there product, but he went into the structure, additives, and temperature ratings then said I'm free to buy the stuff from Tractor Supply and spend $35 for a 5 Gallon bucket vs the ~$100 for 5 Gallons of the Case, because I would be in there spending thousands on repair parts like he sees all the time, so I thought that was a pretty strong testimonial for the Case fluid. He also said that it is the same fluid used in both the hydraulic system and transmission, so I thought that was interesting. I've read some other reviews too that praise it as a great product. Question: What filters do you recommend? I have read some good things on Wix/Napa Gold and Baldwin and in the forum here there was a great link to the Fleet Filter website that sells both. Just thought I would get your thoughts. Also, do you recommend using a standard, blended, or full synthetic engine oil? From what I have read the new CK-4 oil is very good and backward compatible. I think 10w-40 should be good for my area but might go with a 5w-40 if the price is the same or negligible. I run Mobile 1 Full synthetic in all my vehicles. It cost a little more but I think the extra ware protection is worth the extra few bucks. Again, I appreciate any guidance and insights. Thanks!
I have the sense you won't put a lot of hours on it yearly. Your engine was built with oil passages, bearing clearances to flow a 15W40 Diesel oil in your climate. I change oil twice yearly using fossil 10W30 in winter & 15W40 in summer. When I wash dishes I use plenty of water to rinse. I do not use Perrier to rinse dishes. I use the same logic with engines. Frequent changed removes contaminants, and accumulated condensed water. Using oil heavier, or lighter than the engine manufacturer intended risks it not getting to ALL the wear surfaces. Your engine pumps oil into the crank, rockers, timing equipment & cam. Oil passes from the crank into the rods, where it squirts out the wrist pins to lubricate cylinder walls. There is a lot of passage to flow oil! It is even pressure that makes it flow everywhere, even the more difficult to reach places. Tampering with viscosity too much might not be healthy. Too light an oil will allow excessive flow in the easier passages, leaving not enough pressure & volume to reach the more remote spots. Too heavy an oil might make it difficult to push through difficult passages. This is why worn crankshaft bearings causes low oil pressure. All the oil seeps out at the crank mains & rod bearings, reducing pressure & wasting volume. Wear accelerates when bearings get loose. Use a good quality conventional diesel oil of recommended viscosity, change it more often. Diesel oil contains more zinc than allowed in oil formulated for gasoline engines. This cushions impact parts in the valves. I doubt it'll be cold enough in MD, but 10W30 in winter if starting is a concern. Avoid ether all you can & use a tiny bit if you do. A block heater, or a hair dryer in the intake work wonders! Oh, I use mostly NAPA Gold filters, sometimes dealer supplied filters. Again, more often, less extravagant. Keep it clean.
Good Morning Willie, Thank you for the input, much appreciated! Yeah, the hours per year will be pretty low, especially since I still have my day job (Active Duty Army Acquisition Officer). So, I will only be running it on evenings, weekends, and when I am on leave to clear my few acres of about 300 trees (mostly small ones, but about 20-30 pretty good size popular, oak, and beechnut) we have some kind of fungus or other disease that has/is killing about 70% of them. About three weeks ago we had a ~150’ tall 2.75’ round trunk poplar up root and smash into my enclosed car hauler trailer we used to move out here from Arizona and now mostly use for storage. It is only by the Hand & Grace of God our family van was not crushed. The shifter level linkage disconnected when my wife tried to put the van in reverse, so it was stuck where it was rather than parked where it normally would be. Thanks be to a merciful God who blesses and protects us!! I added a few photos to show what I am talking about. I will be able to repair the trailer enough to keep it waterproof and functional for storage. We also have a ~600 foot dirt/gravel road that leads to the house, the county sticks all of us with a stiff property tax bill, then stiffs us on a paving our “private” road despite the fact all the other roads in the neighborhood are county maintained. I guess we are just special. Anyway, I also plan to put in a 40x60 workshop, fence off about an acre or little more, after clearing it, for a few sheep and hogs, maybe a small watering hole/fishing pond, small barn for the animals, etc., etc., etc. I looked at getting a subcompact or compact in the 50 HP range, but after all my research decided for the price and my purposes a full size backhoe is a better fit. I also looked at skid steers, but they don’t have the weight/reach and ground breaking force I am looking for, so while it’s not the best at anything, a backhoe will pretty much do everything I want/need and if I want to get really crazy I can get and put on a front coupler that will let me use skid steer attachments, I’m just not sure about the hydraulic system supporting them, but that would be a much later after retirement type of deal. I’m mostly intrigued by the thought because I don’t think it would be too different than putting on a 4-1 bucket, which I don’t have but would be nice. I know you swapped out a standard bucket with a 4-1 which I think you wrote about on this thread. Anyway, I like your Perrier example and it makes sense. Changing the oil & filter with the recommended viscosity more often to keep it clean is more critical than the blend. Your description of the oil flow reminded me of setting my lifters on my 350 in my old 69 Chevy Nova! I took an old/extra lifter cover and cut a rectangle out of it over the rocker nuts and half the lifters and would use my T-handles and a rubber gasket with that cutout cover to run the engine and adjust the rockers without getting oil all over the head and side of the block. I don’t have the Nova anymore, but I still have valve cover. Again, thanks for the info/advise.
Wow! What a mess! Several years ago Hurricane Irene made a mess of my yard & a big storage building full of treasures. FEMA wouldn't help, but they did appraise the damage at $118,500. Countless people told me how lucky I was. I sort of wanted to respond I wished I was as lucky as they were & have no damage. I too drive a GM full size van, mine is Quigley converted to 4X4. No, the plumbing is intact, I believe mine once had a 4 in 1 bucket. I'd sure like to have one. I did build a thumb for the back last spring. I feel that is the most useful accessory possible.
Yup, it was a mess. Fortunately a couple great brothers from church and a couple of chainsaws made pretty quick work of getting the tree cleared out of the driveway. I was able to use my floor jack and a 4x4 piece of lumber as a hydraulic press to push the top frame steel trailer supports mostly back into place, at least good enough. Before we bought the place (I purchased it as a foreclosure) another big tree uprooted and just clipped the garage, which I still need to fix, but it is not really too pressing, but still needs to be done this summer. After this most recent uprooting, my bottom line is anything that can come close to house or property has got to go, hence the hoe!! I’m sorry to hear about the damage you suffered and agree with your statement about wishing you were lucky enough to not get any damage. My homeowners deductible is $5k and they would only cover $2500 for the trailer, then told me it was an act of God, so I was screwed either way. The good thing is I can patch up the trailer good enough with roofing patch and fiberglass tape to make it waterproof for about $50 dollars. I just need the weather to warm up so the patch will spread and adhere. In the mean time I already had a few large tarps I put on it that is good enough to keep it dry until it is warm enough. Fortunately, the 590 is plumbed for a thumb or a hammer, finding one is a bit of a different story in the looking I have done, but definitely something I am interested in. I’ll play with what I got for now and use straps or chains with the bucket hooks to load balance and move logs after I cut them to size, it will take longer and more work, but that’s why I have children!! Some what kidding but they are usually pretty good helpers. That’s cool you have the Quigley kit, I looked at that, but don’t really have the need.
Congrats on the purchase. Mine is way older than yours, I have been right through it. Parts have been available & affordable but some iv had to get from overseas. Not a big deal though. Do you have the service manual? I think I have it for machine #900001 on.
In 2004 I bought a Deere 500A hoe. It was made in 1968 by running the SN. I haven't had problem with parts, but I have had very few problems. Even though its yellow, I go through my nearby green dealer's online parts finder, and it get delivered to them. Most stuff I get from other vendors: filters and fluids from NAPA, I bought it for the same reason you are looking, I had 40 acres of forest that I wanted to put a house, garage, etc. Lots of big hardwood stumps to dig, dirt to move. I still use it a lot, seems there is a tree down, road to fix or area to grade. I live in logging country, and I use specialty shops for some things. I had a leaking stabilizer cylinder a few years ago, took it to a hydraulic shop, it had a worn piston. They machined a new one, repacked, sealed, and did cost $200, that was my biggest expense so far. I've blown many hoses (why is it raining when there are no clouds), I take them to a hose shop and they make identical ones while I wait. Starter a few years ago to an auto-electric shop, completely rebuilt while I watched, relaquered inside, repainted outside, looks and works like new, $50. So don't overlook your small independent shops. I couldn't imagine not having it, it came with a 30" digging, and 12" trenching bucket, looked pretty poor overall, but price was right at $6K for it. It still touch starts as long as its not cold out, but now I go to Florida for the winter. You probably will still want a smaller utility tractor for other chores depending on where you live. I have a Deere 790 that wears a front snowblower in winter, and front end loader in the summer. It gets through the woods easy to bring in firewood, and finish grading.
The prices you get for fixing things seem too good to be true.
Thats why I was saying to always check the small shops. A couple years ago my neighbor was complaining his Kubota utility tractor's starter quit, and they want $200 for a new one from the dealership. I suggested he run it to the shop in Kalkaska (MI). He did, he was impressed with the quick rebuild while he waited, and $50 price. Still going strong. I see you are a welder, thats what I did as a boilermaker. Repaired and built pressure vessels, boiler tubes, nuke reactors, etc. Loved it...
Local electrical (alternators & starters) rebuilder is forever. I can't count the units I have had rebuilt. Average rebuild is $180. He also does radiators. They too last forever. I just paid $1100. for a radiator rebuild on an obsolete truck. Not complaining, the dependability of his work makes it worth it. I have paid $600. for a hydraulic cylinder repack when they do the whole job, $200. when I remove it, clean it, deliver it & pick it up. I find hydraulic repair to be toughest. Numerous shops within 100 miles from me, past experience says I couldn't get a new piston machined before June. Then, it'd be a $1000 job.
There is an HEF member that has his own hydraulic repair business. Mike Bramel has posted some very impressive info. on HEF. http://www.mobilehyd.com/index.htm Just Sayin.