just got a 580 ck to do some landsaping. i live on a mountain. thing dont got any brakes! i took off the left side housing and nothing really seems too worn. Bands look almost new, and lining is still like 1/8 thick. what am i missing?
sounds like they need to be adjusted
Or maybe bleed?
If it's the straight CK, there is no bleeding. It's a mechanical set up. [Think Flintstones] Maybe the linings got oil soaked? - but if you are trying to compare them to the brakes on your truck, you will be disappointed.
The "R" on the shift lever is for Retard.
Do the pedals move when you apply the brakes ? If they do how far do they travel down towards the floor ? Both pedals act the same ?
how does one adjust them? the shaft to the bands had the nut and jam nut threaded as far as possible
Didnt feel oily at all. gave em a good brake clean once over tho.
Both pedals seem to move their full travel and the same distance each. will have to measure to get you actual distance
Got any pictures?
No need to measure travel distance. Do the actuators move when you depress the peddle/s ? Master cylinders full of fluid ? "how does one adjust them? the shaft to the bands had the nut and jam nut threaded as far as possible" Are they adjusted to full extension of the linkage or are they adjusted tooo short ?
i'll have to look later today / i thought everything was mechanical, where are these master cylinders?
You didn't specify the age of the tractor. If it is 1974 or older you have mechanical linkage like this. The online parts book is your friend. https://partstore.casece.com/us/par...24be683c&sl=EN¤cy=#epc::mr65627ar676334
Yup she's all linkage. 1972 i think
I would pull the disc apart and give it a good cleaning... just looking at it I would say something leaked on it... anyways pull it apart and check the balls and springs, springs usually don't last too many years anyhow. if the ball sockets are not smooth and even it can make things interesting
where in albany are you located ? maybe your close enough for me to come help you
Are those pics before or after the brake cleaner? Looks like the 90 weight is getting to them. If you do a google search, there are some threads here with some good hints.
yea those pics are after the brake cleaner. should have said that bc it totally looks oily as hell in there haha.
I'm actually north of Albany outside Troy about 10 mins. But if you're close at all i'd supply many a beer and bbq for the help.
your about a hour away im in schoharie county . If theres oil in there the axle is leaking into the brake housings ...
Get ready, if you get them working they might start sticking then. Very aggravating. I have a little bit later 480c with the hydraulic brakes, but it looks the same as yours on the inside. That band grabs that "donut" and the donut expands and swells up it's width and rubs the sides of the transmission and the housing you took off. There are little balls inside the "donut" that reside in little ramps. When the band outside stops the donut from turning, the transmission keeps trying to turn it and the balls ride up the little ramps and expand the donut. All well and good, but when the brake linings get oil on them, they get sticky. You can clean then all you want but it doesn't help. The donut will swell up and stick, and the only way to unstick it is to put the tractor in reverse. I have one other trick up my sleeve I am going to try , and that is a torch to carefully heat the linings to drive the oil out. I have done this before on other tractors and it seemed to work ok, but it's a smokey stinky mess. If that doesn't work, I will have to break down and buy new linings. As you found out, brakes are important in hill country. It's nice to set the parking brake and be able to get off the tractor without having to bury the hoe or the bucket all the time.
I would reline them I did mine
I've never had any luck boil the oil out of brake shoes I'd replace them their not expensive .
Go ahead and replace the brake bands and disc linings you are into them so change them. You will need a rivet machine to do this though or a good punch and hammer. The old linings looks like they've been hot and glazed over.
tool makes it a lot easier They arent that expensive... I have one
don't waste your time or money relining brakes until you fix those oil leaks at seals or in a few days you will be back at the same place you need to replace axle and diff lock seals and probably reset preload on that old of a machine
I still dont think i have an oil leak of any sort. what i did find however on the right side was the damn case was half full of dirt. i mean i swear it was dirt. no smell to it, and certainly way too much to be spent brake material. i will say tho that it looks like things were glazed As for the ball and pocket assembly. should i do anything other than clean those nice and good? no lube of any sort in there i assume. And any tips for getting the inside disc off the axle spline? right one came off easy. left one is pretty stuck on there. I guess if im going to replace the lining i can just chip a few spots away and pry from there...
Got parts numbers for those seals. having a hard time finding them [EDIT] are they A49796?
what do u mean by reset preload?
i think he means that you will have to re adjust the brakes when you replace them. like compressing the caliper on the car when you replace the pads. but i don't know how that would be done on a linkage. i guess you would somehow shorten it by turning some screw/nut of some sort… someone will correct me if im wrong
preload is set by shims on side plates that hold seals there is always bearing wear on these old machines if you don't set it they will leak as well when they are off check the thrust washers as they can break apart don't forget to change diff lock seals as per your pix that my friend is oil on those linings so if you just change linings its a waste of time and money all the wishing and hoping its something else just aint true
yup going to do the seals as well. how do i determine what size shim to use?
u gotta break down and buy a service manual cause u have to change the diff lock seals as well with a old 580 u will need the manual for lotsa other stuff sooner than later
aahhh come on somebodys bound ot have a PDF of that thing kicking around
You need a PDF of the entire service and parts manual - or a paper copy - it's the most important tool you'll own. 580bob was right on with that advice. No offense but your knowledge of these machines is rudimentary and it isn't smart to just wing it or you'll likely cause more problems than you cure -$$$$$. You'll need this forum as well as the manual. One isn't the replacement for the other.
Yes i know i need an entire copy, I was not disagreeing with 580bob. i was simply asking if someone would share their copy with me... Didnt say i wanted to rely on this forum alone, nor did i say i wanted to just wing it. And who said i dont have any experience with diesel engines, hydraulics or transmissions? pretty big assumption that my knowledge is rudimentary. I have just never encountered brakes like these before.
Don't get your hackles up. Who said you didn't have any experience with diesel engines, hydraulics or transmissions? I have 3 580's, one is a CK like yours that I've had for almost 40 years and I still consider my knowledge of these machines to be fairly rudimentary but I have the service and parts manuals for each machine I own and that helps a lot but I still come here for answers to things I can't figure out or don't understand. I guess your denial until today about the oil leaking on the brakes which seems blatantly obvious to me and others have also mentioned is the basis for my "assumption". You didn't say that you wanted to wing it but that's what you're doing. It isn't a contest - we all help each other and it doesn't matter who knows more but get the manual first - you're going to need it again and again no matter how smart you are.
Haha Grady youre a character. I'm only getting my hackles up because youre hackling me. you said my knowledge with 'these machines' is rudimentary. To me that means deisel backhoes. the main systems of which are engine, hydraulics, transmission...and brakes If you meant to say my knowledge of 'these brakes' is rudimentary, then i would have just agreed with you. You say no offense but saying I in general dont know what i'm doing and am winging it is offensive. so far ive taken off the brakes and inspected them... Thats winging it? I'm not using this thing 10 hrs a day and refusing to buy new parts because im in 'denial' I listened to what everyone has said on this and bought new linings and seals. and am now asking if anyone has a service manual to share. Do me a favor and stop scolding me for things i havent done and don't plan on doing.
Parts and owners manual for 580ck : http://www.minnpar.com/manuals5.asp... 580 SERIES PARTS MANUALS&SSSFName=CASE 580CK
hey grady just let him carry on in his own world we tried I have bought many manuals but guys today don't want to spend a dime on them and want all our years of experience but when we say something they don't like or clem says something else he does like we don't know nothing 90 wt on linings is 90 wt on linings seen that hundred of times no matter what the dirt fairy says
This is a link to the service manual. ---------> http://files.minnpar.com/partbooks/...MANUAL/Case 580CK Series C Service Manual.pdf
580bob, when he finally figures out what a thrust washer is, what preload is, and what those shims are for, he will thank you - or he will ask about how to replace the ring and pinion gears, etc.
thank you tinkerer for actually being helpful
holy **** bob and grady... *** are you guys on about??? I told u guys i bought new parts! im replacing the oil soaked linings, the leaking seals, and was simply looking for a service manual... im spending the money on the hardware. but WHY would i buy a service manual without seeing if i could get one for free first... you guys wanna be hard asses, fine. But if you want to be helpful, which is what i came here for, all im looking for is advice not found in the service manual, or a human explanation that a manual lacks
DO NOT CHANGE SHIMS!!! Your preload will not change as long as you don't get shims mixed up. The seals in difflock shaft are a pain but you can change them if you have a o-ring hook to grab them, and then use a socket to put them back in, I say them because on the old machines there are two of them. If you can't get them to come out you will have to remove stub shaft which means you will have to remove the bull gear on that side.
Yea after reading through the service manual (thanks tinkerer!) i gathered shims dont need to be changed. What's holding me up now is the splined disc on the left side wont come off the side gear. tried heat, tried pb blast. chipped away the lining to get behind it but im prying so hard im scared im bending the damn thing. havent tried a gear puller yet. doubt ill have the clearance for it.
and no service manual will help with that . But the years of experience from the guys you just dissed would have...
You're right, defending myself once they decided i was ignoring their advice (which i wasn't) and didn't have any idea what i'm doing (which i do) was a lost cause. If they're so thin skinned that calling them hard asses (which they obviously were) hurt their snowflake feelings, and them dissing me doesn't count, well then screw it. And if you want to join the ranks of not contributing and just falsely scolding me, i don't think i want your 'advice' either. Christ just trying to fix my backhoe... not get trolled
The best way I've found to get the disc assembly off the shaft when it's stuck is to spray the splines with penetrating oil and let it set for a bit then use pry bars to get behind it. You may have to use a hammer to drive pry bars in but damage will be slight. I hope this helps a bit anyway.
Is it the Case tractors were you have to be careful when you start messing with the rearend and start taking things apart? Am I right in saying on one of these tractors you guys were locking the brakes on one side to hold things is position while you took the other side apart? I think there is a big thread on it somewhere in here.
That's right Franklin, I tried to tell him that early on but that would have involved some effort on his part. If I was too broke or too cheap to buy a service manual, I'd probably be too lazy or too dumb to google something like Case 580CK service repair manual PDF where you can download one for free. I'd just want everyone to do it for me and I'd insult anyone who dared to question my approach and take offense when they recognize the obvious. I like to help people, too, but I like to see some kind of effort on their part. Short of that, I'm content to let nature take it's course.
This thread appears to be going the way of the famous "D6 No Oil Pressure" thread that went to 50+ pages ...........
Unfortunately it is very similar,Nige. At least there isn't an incompetent dealer involved. Namecalling, assumptions and accusations. Good Grief !! There is no need for any of that on a forum. Just my opinion.
seems like the new breed I try to explain what to look for grady tries to help and we are snowflakes ahh the new millennials please come and fix it for poor old me waa waa !!
I was having fun following this thread, thanks to all who are/were involved, made me laugh many times..
I wish I could say the same, but for me it is a sad thing to see this on HEF. We lost one of the HEF's most knowledgeable members (tctractors) in the D6c cat loss of oil pressure thread when the name calling and bullying started.
Sorry to hear that, I read a lot of his helpful posts since signing up here.. Hope I did'nt ruffle any feathers with my last post ??
No,showrguy nothing you posted bothered me. We all take what we read in different perspectives.
just remember guys it was the GUY who was looking for help who started the name calling when he didn't like what we were telling him what to do to repair his machine
Sort of ....... "I've got my opinion, don't confuse me with the facts" deal.
Grady what the heeeeeeeeeelllllll are you talking about?? I ASKED HERE for a service manual and GOT ONE. will you please STFU about it. jeeezlus chrriiist.
Coy youre awesome. thank you for helping. I tried many a sessions of penetrating oil, tapping, tapping harder. Heating, tapping, heating, swearing. Thought i broke her loose but ended up busting the spline disc. new one on order as we speak. sucks bc the right side came off so easily.
Actually Grady chimed in just to tell me to get the service manual (which i did via Tinkerer) and to tell me i didnt know what i was doing (wow really great input there, thanks a ton) Nobody even gorram BOTHERED to link me to this thread: HeavyEquipmentForums which Grady was a PART OF... wouldve been a lot easier than arguing with me and ignoring the fact that i was agreeing with him most of the time
Is defending myself to Grady unacceptable?
Believe me i didn't want this haha. But I hate being called an idiot by people that dont know me. once you know me THEN you can call me an idiot.
For anyone still interested in the actual progress of this repair. Maybe Coy and Tinkerer since theyve been quite helpful. I drained the oil and pulled both of the bearing carriers off. this time it was the Right side which was a bear. shims didnt really survive, will have to replace them. Once its time, any reason not to reinstall with just one shim equaling the total thickness of the three that were on there? would rather cut a single one out of the appropriate shim stock than 3. And the surfaces between the shims are anything but smooth. should i ignore the 'added' thickness? i feel like its going to add more than a few thou with the new shims.
ssshhhh let fu read the manual he is master of all so he says
BOB GO AWAY!! YOU'RE STILL BEING AN A55H0LE!
Wow you're an a55h0le to everyone. even senior members. And im the one whos the jerk in this thread...
Wow, sign of the times, few can agree on anything.
3 shims or one doesn't matter, as long as the thickness is the same. Not sure what you mean the surfaces are not smooth between the shims. Rust ? Galled ? The important thing is the bearing pre-load when it is back together.
Yes, you asked here for info on why your brakes don't work and then for a service manual for your machine without even doing a google search where they are offered for free - like it's up to someone else to do it for you? The link tinkerer gave you is for a C, that has similar although different brakes. I see you finally took my advice to research the threads on this site that have a lot of good info on brakes for CK's. There are quite a few threads that contain a lot of good hints that aren't in the manual - but you again wanted someone to just send you the link because google is just too labor intensive? "no one BOTHERED" Do you think I remember the name of every thread I ever posted in or read? I told you they were here - you just had to look - and apparently you finally did. Did you read my post in that thread that advised to get the service manual and others agreed? I gave that guy a bearing carrier for his brakes who offered to buy it - but he wasn't being a dick. No one ever called you an idiot even if that's how you took it. Rudimentary means basic, not stupid. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I was trying to keep you from doing expensive damage to your machine unintentionally. I told you we all help each other and it isn't a contest but you make it painful. Coy and Tinkerer, besides knowing more than me, must also have more time on their hands, better social skills, ungrateful kids of their own, or maybe they're just religious and can turn the other cheek. I heard the Lord helps those who help themselves so ask a question that shows you've made some effort and don't be rude to those who are trying to help you. I like Nige's motto. I can't imagine that anyone cares about the progress of your repair at this point - but it's always amusing to watch a tantrum.
Yea pretty much just concerened about the roughness and rust.
Grady... This isnt yahoo answers and im not asking about how to change a lightbulb i came to a forum asking for super esoteric help and to save time. Telling me to help myself... is not helping. I know how to google, and thread skim, and i didnt find anything. Proving your point by intentionally witholding information seems a bit childish, and once again, does not help, and also wastes both our time. The time i spent looking and not finding anything on my own doesn't make me any smarter, it just wastes my time. With both thread skimming and googling, it's the destination that teaches, not the journey. You set a precedent by talking down to me, and continued to convince other people. Meanwhile I was doing everything you and Bob were convinced I wasnt... Coy and Tinkerer probably spent less time overall, and helped me more, because they wanted to help, not 'teach me a lesson'. Calling me defending myself a tantrum is cute. But that's your shtick i guess. Everything I do is wrong, and you're always right. It seems the old crotchety experts are as egocentric as the 'millenials'. And as i said to Bob after his last comment, in not so many words; please just go away and stop adding to this now piece of garbage thread.
as fu just said IT IS A GARBAGE THREAD thanks to him and his hot head he is much too lost in my eyes and deserves no more help he spends more time dissing people than hunting for real answers so maybe you should just be gone
No one "intentionally" withheld any information from you and you never even bothered to look - you already admitted it. Why should you "waste your time" when you could waste someone else's, right? I googled it and it popped right up first time - free. Why do you persist in making up bull**** excuses for things that are painfully obvious? You probably haven't noticed because you never bothered to read any other threads but people here are generally polite and helpful to each other. I have an idea. Since an apology is out of the question because you think you are the victim here, why not try your next post under a different user name that is less indicative of your personality and use this thread as a learning experience. See if you don't get a better result. Pretend someone taught you manners. I learned a long time ago that nothin is for nothin - even if it's free - so if you come here for an answer to something you don't know, why not come here and share some of your expertise to those who don't know what you do? - if it isn't too much of a waste of your time.
I just came across this thread, and have read the bulk of it and frankly I'm astonished at the behavior in this thread. I'm not going to name any names, but rather I'm going to put it out to everybody within ear shot of me who reads this, we WILL treat each and every member on HEF with respect. And if anyone doesn't agree with that then I'll simply go to my toolbox and get out my ban hammer and use it without warning or recourse. Capisce?
Even tho the wheels fell off this thread, I wonder if fu580ck ever got his brakes working. I hope so.
I thought it worked itself out pretty well under the circumstances. It reminds me of watching the games where the referees let them play unless it gets really rough. There is too much helicopter parenting these days for my taste but maybe I'm just old school. You didn't mention my name but I'll just say that I don't regret a single thing I said. I try to be respectful but I tend to be direct and not beat around the bush too much. This kid needed some quality parenting that he obviously never got. I'm sure he got that machine for free just like everything else he wanted and wanted everyone to do for him. I think he was rude and disrespectful from the get go - including his name and asked for everything he got and deserved even more. - I did, however, recognize a couple threads since this one under different names where he was quite polite and respectful and no one mentioned the past so I'd call it a lesson learned - something that may never have happened with too much intervention - and that's more important than all the repair advice he could get.
IDK no one has said.
I hoped my post earlier would express the hint that this type of post is unnecessary at this point as sentiments similar to this, just in other words, have already been expressed here on this thread in previous posts. We're not going to keep beating this dead horse here, let's move on with the original thread topic or I'll shut this thing down.